Cold War Jets

[Dominator2]

BBC 4 21.00 tonight 14 Oct 18 https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03j5cf8

Part 2 of some great footage of Classic Jets. Last week in Part 1, who sold the jet engine to Russia?

[rolling20]

Sold? Attlee and his socialist chums gave them away.

[pr00ne]

Yep,

We gave jet engines to our two main allies in WW2, the USA and USSR.

[just another jocky]

Yep,

We gave jet engines to our two main allies in WW2, the USA and USSR.

We gave them a lot more than just the jet engine.....

[rolling20]

Yep,

We gave jet engines to our two main allies in WW2, the USA and USSR.

Soon after Yalta in February 45, it was realised what the Russians had in mind for the 'liberated' countries of Eastern Europe. Churchills Iron Curtain speech was in March 46, the sale was in September 46. An act of extreme folly.

[Pontius Navigator]

Saved them from stealing the plans.

Look at the big picture though, Klaus ***** and Bruno Portecorvo probably had ideas well before their time. By giving the bomb secrets to Russia they anticipated MAD by two decades. By enabling a balance of terror they might have deterred the US from a pre-emptive strike that Plan Dropshot certainly considered.

Encircling the USSR with over 2,000 long range bombers, some on airborne alert, was not very friendly, nor was deploying IRBM either. Looking at the creation of a buffer zone and an alliance could be seen as a sensible response to a belligerent power.

[tornadoken]

R20: folly...gave away jet to US/USSR.

Giveaway to US.US/UK Patent Interchange Agreement,24/8/42 deferred to post-War all commercial claims: UK's purpose was to source kit from plants unbombed.
So: an endless list of radars, gunsights, jet engines, atomic bombs...where defeating the enemy took priority.
When JM Keynes then negotiated the UK Reconstruction Loan, Approved 7/46, the Settlement of Lend/Lease was net of Reverse: (somewhat notionally) we set off food/fuel/sparking plugs issued by UK to USAAFE, and anything elese we could think of, such as Intellectual Property, against the weight of kit supplied by US. We gaveaway nothing to US, nor they to us. Common resources for common Task..So the Reconstruction $ arrived from July 1946. Much of it went up in Virginia tobacco smoke.

Giveaway to USSR. PM Attlee asked Pres.Board of Trade Cripps (let us call him at that time Very Left): what can we barter to whom to source stuff $-free, such as timber to rebuild voters wrecked houses, and food for them. Ukraine timber and wheat, for Derwent/Nene he said, and lots of aircraft for fascist Peron, for Fray Bentos spam (look it up). Go for it, Cabinet said. So he did:10/46 Export Licences for 10 Nene/10 Derwent.15 more Nene/20 Derwent, Spring,47. Our valiant Ally asked for 2 evaluation Meteors, but we declined (though happily selling 100 to Peron. 5/47). The agreed price (IIRC £600K, first batch) was settled by barter.

Not until 14/4/48 were UK Chiefs of Staff instructed to Plan on a USSR invasion of N.Germany. US politics were then bi-partisan that our boys would be back from Europe asap. Our only Ally was France. Discriminating against USSR was not a good idea untl US changed its tune after the Berlin Blockade.

[NutLoose]

We also gave the Russians a guided tour of RR's production facility, the Ruskies equipped their tour with shoes with special super soft soles that picked up samples of the exotic metal swarf we were using to be analysed and copied back in the USSR.
When Stalin asked Churchil for condoms for his troops, Churchil had Durex manufacture XXXL sizes and mark the labeling as small.

[Tankertrashnav]

Wouldn't that have been Fray Bentos corned beef tornadoken? Spam came from our US allies as I recall.

I note that Kruschev's son said his dad preferred the Victor out of the 3 V-Bombers. Obviously a man of discernment and good taste!

[langleybaston]

I just loved Kruschev Jr.
Helped me to top up my Merkat accent.

[Wander00]

More to the point, are they repeating Pt 1 which I missed......

[campbeex]

Wander00,both episodes are available on the BBC iPlayer:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/b03hhm6z?suggid=b03hhm6z

[rolling20]

R20: folly...gave away jet to US/USSR.

Giveaway to US.US/UK Patent Interchange Agreement,24/8/42 deferred to post-War all commercial claims: UK's purpose was to source kit from plants unbombed.
So: an endless list of radars, gunsights, jet engines, atomic bombs...where defeating the enemy took priority.
When JM Keynes then negotiated the UK Reconstruction Loan, Approved 7/46, the Settlement of Lend/Lease was net of Reverse: (somewhat notionally) we set off food/fuel/sparking plugs issued by UK to USAAFE, and anything elese we could think of, such as Intellectual Property, against the weight of kit supplied by US. We gaveaway nothing to US, nor they to us. Common resources for common Task..So the Reconstruction $ arrived from July 1946. Much of it went up in Virginia tobacco smoke.

Giveaway to USSR. PM Attlee asked Pres.Board of Trade Cripps (let us call him at that time Very Left): what can we barter to whom to source stuff $-free, such as timber to rebuild voters wrecked houses, and food for them. Ukraine timber and wheat, for Derwent/Nene he said, and lots of aircraft for fascist Peron, for Fray Bentos spam (look it up). Go for it, Cabinet said. So he did:10/46 Export Licences for 10 Nene/10 Derwent.15 more Nene/20 Derwent, Spring,47. Our valiant Ally asked for 2 evaluation Meteors, but we declined (though happily selling 100 to Peron. 5/47). The agreed price (IIRC £600K, first batch) was settled by barter.

Not until 14/4/48 were UK Chiefs of Staff instructed to Plan on a USSR invasion of N.Germany. US politics were then bi-partisan that our boys would be back from Europe asap. Our only Ally was France. Discriminating against USSR was not a good idea untl US changed its tune after the Berlin Blockade.
Nice cut and pasting. You have just airbrushed the Truman Doctrine and the Marshall Plan from history. Both aimed at reducing Soviet influence. The latter denounced by the Soviets as it was available to recent communist states. Both predate the Berlin airlift, as did Churchills Iron Curtain speech.

[Coochycool]

As an aside, and in danger of thread drift, I can report that the enormous meat processing plant in the town of Fray Bentos (yes, its a place in Uruguay) proved to be a most enthralling museum.

Instigated by Brits, their Germanic name was deemed inappropriate and thus Anglo was originally chosen as a brand name.

Before later adopting the name of a local priest!

And nowhere else have I ever encountered an ornate memorial column....to corned beef!

The evolution of Euro - South American air travel also receives more than a passing mention.

Cooch

[etudiant]

Fray Bentos was the name given to a WW1 tank by its crew. It experienced some very hard fighting. https://tank100.com/tankmen/fray-bentos/