Glider down- Beachy head [Archive]

Auxtank

13th Oct 2018, 16:01

Two men were winched to safety from the glider by the Coastguard helicopter and were taken to the top of Beachy Head. The Coastguard said they did not require medical treatment. Ashley added: “Luckily both glider occupants were unscathed and did not spend long in the sea. I would encourage all general aviation pilots to adopt such airmanship and observe and report incidents via the correct means, (via the Distress & Diversion Cell).”
Source: Eastbourneherald (I can't post url's yet)

No info on how or why but good to see both safe.

wrecker

13th Oct 2018, 17:22

Confirmed as a Duo-discus with 2 POB both OK. Glider now ashore.
As to why I guess it could be " Eh mister did the wind Stop?"

Auxtank

13th Oct 2018, 17:37

Confirmed as a Duo-discus with 2 POB both OK. Glider now ashore.
As to why I guess it could be " Eh mister did the wind Stop?"

Well, there was plenty of it about this afternoon. Very gusty at times. See the TAF above.

thunderbird7

13th Oct 2018, 19:29

Listened to the extremely helpful light aircraft pilot on guard, orbiting and passing information toe D&D. Good that they got out.

What wasn't so good was th guard police telling him to shut up because he was on an emergency frequency....

Nightstop

13th Oct 2018, 19:57

Auxtank

13th Oct 2018, 20:24

Agree, the pilot of G- HA (Redhill based?) did a wonderful job passing information to D & D on 121.50. I also heard the Guard Police transmit to the pilot that he was on Guard! I suppose their long flight Eastbound means they’ve left their brains and ears in the USA. The same happened a few years back when the German guy in a light twin ditched in the Channel (ran outa fuel I believe). Please Guard Police stop transmitting, you’re on Guard!

Yes indeed. There was an example of this last year if I remember correctly.
A mixture of fatigue after a long journey across the pond and looking for trouble from the usual suspects aloft; never a good combination of conditions in the cockpit.
One hopes they'll have a review of sorts (even if it's just a quick chat over a fag at the back of the hangar) and see the event in perspective, realising it was meet and right for the GA pilot to shout on the Guard frequency.

Gertrude the Wombat

13th Oct 2018, 21:24

Agree, the pilot of G- HA (Redhill based?) did a wonderful job passing information to D & D on 121.50.
An essentially similar scenario was included in my practical RT test, so I hope we'd all have been able to do a reasonable job!

meleagertoo

14th Oct 2018, 10:15

One can only wonder how and why a glider, two up (almost certainly means an instructor on board) allowed itself to get below terrain on the coast.

nevillestyke

14th Oct 2018, 16:55

One can only wonder how and why a glider, two up (almost certainly means an instructor on board) allowed itself to get below terrain on the coast.
Because it was rather windy, they thought that there would be some lift but they (two former CFIs?) did not understand the dynamics of coastal soaring, which is very different from inland soaring.
A musical selection for their Xmas do, perhaps? On the Beach, by Cliff?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJhq46ZpVbM

Auxtank

14th Oct 2018, 20:00

Because it was rather windy, they thought that there would be some lift but they (two former CFIs?) did not understand the dynamics of coastal soaring, which is very different from inland soaring.
A musical selection for their Xmas do, perhaps? On the Beach, by Cliff?

Yes, indeed. I'm a sailor as well as a pilot and a lee shore will catch you out whether you're sailing or flying.

My guess is; they descended as you do, and then got caught up in gusty SW winds (very gusty) and lost it on the climb (too much behind, not enough warm), realised they were too low and the only sensible answer at that point was to go down and park it in the surf at sea level.

Best thing to do...with a non powered machine.

gaxor

14th Oct 2018, 20:44

Yes indeed. There was an example of this last year if I remember correctly.
A mixture of fatigue after a long journey across the pond and looking for trouble from the usual suspects aloft; never a good combination of conditions in the cockpit.
One hopes they'll have a review of sorts (even if it's just a quick chat over a fag at the back of the hangar) and see the event in perspective, realising it was meet and right for the GA pilot to shout on the Guard frequency.

For the record I was the pilot flying G-HA yesterday. I initially called the incident into Farnborough Radar, who then asked me to call it in to D&D on 121.5

i then stayed in positioning orbiting and relaying sitrep back to the authorities until my fuel situation dictated that I had to return to Redhill. I believe another aircraft was by this time in position to assist

Thegreenmachine

15th Oct 2018, 09:26

For the record I was the pilot flying G-HA yesterday. I initially called the incident into Farnborough Radar, who then asked me to call it in to D&D on 121.5

i then stayed in positioning orbiting and relaying sitrep back to the authorities until my fuel situation dictated that I had to return to Redhill. I believe another aircraft was by this time in position to assist
Another listener here as we were on the climb out.
Very well done to you and to the London guys, coastguard etc. Pleased to hear of a positive outcome for the poor sods who ended up in the drink.
The chap berating you for being on guard should take a look at themselves.

one dot right

15th Oct 2018, 10:15

Where was the glider from?

Tagron

15th Oct 2018, 11:02

Notwithstanding the TAFs and what may have been happening elsewhere in the UK, the METARS show that at Shoreham (20 miles west of Beachy Head) the surface winds were light easterly all afternoon. They. had been light south easterly in the morning. If this was representative of conditions at Beachy Head then the chances of successfully soaring the cliffs would have been minimal.

I suspect that if the crew of the glider had been aware of this they would not even have bothered to take off. They would have needed to motor much of the way to and from Beachy Head.

nimbusgb

15th Oct 2018, 12:24

Where was the glider from?

Parham. ( Southdown Gliding Club ) They were apparently soaring the Beachy Head cliffs and ( for once ) 'ran out of breeze', probably as it backed more easterly than southerly.

From cliff top height one only has a little time to get the auxiliary running and that requires diving to get the fan spinning. If it doesn't run then into the drink you go!

Ditching a sailplane is pretty much a non-event apart from some types noting a nose 'submarine' to as much as 2m below the surface once it settles. In some competitions in Scandinavia a lake may be the only place to go if you cock up the day, far preferable to the treetops!

nevillestyke

15th Oct 2018, 13:14

one dot right,
Parham AFAIK.

DaveReidUK

16th Oct 2018, 06:53

Likely one of the three Duo Disci based there - a relatively new XLT and a couple of older Ts.

Pegpilot

16th Oct 2018, 10:31

So all Turbo's then Dave, if you're right ? I presume that if you're soaring the cliffs then you don't really have the height and time to get the donk started in the first place if the ridge stops working. Might as well leave the engine at home ! Unless they tried to fire up and it didn't start....

Boxster

24th Oct 2018, 12:36

Interesting to view planefinder.net or similar and see the doomed glider just losing height and ditching, when just a few minutes before another glider gained 1000' above the cliffs (but I don't know if that was assisted though).

JW411

24th Oct 2018, 17:00

One was on the side of Beachy Head that was producing lift and the other one wasn't and got his feet wet. I am told that the guy in the back seat was an ex-Chief Flying Instructor.

blind pew

24th Oct 2018, 22:21

Having taught all the way down from big boys pax jets through alpine soaring and flying off Irish beaches and now playing with paragliders the atmosphere isn't quite as most people understand it and no matter how much experience you can get caught out.
I did one flight in the West of Ireland rounding the tip of slieve Brandon (3000+) below the 1000ft cloud base..face worked a treat as wind force 5 until an embedded shower came through. fall back was a ditching in the lee...sadly no photos as needed both hands on the stick.
For coastal or even in land slope soaring one has to consider the layers..inversions..a small height change can find you in completely different air mass with different wind direction and speed. it's not predictable without a sounding which is why hot air balloons let off toy balloons before flight.
I did try and find a drone set up to do the same..some times I launch and become very religious but then again if it all goes tits up then I land on my a@se.

mary meagher

25th Oct 2018, 09:59

Did the duo discus have a handy pop-up engine? they don't always get you out of trouble even if installed in the glider....One of the Jones lads was flying with a lady friend at Deeside, and getting nervous on the downwind leg raised up the standby handy engine.....which of course increased the drag nor did it choose to start..... and so though they might have made it to the runway, they ended up on a car in the car park, surprising an elderly couple sitting in their car watching the gliders.
As the expensive glider also suffered damage (though nobody hurt inside the car or the glider) rumour had it that the Jones lad had some serious explaining to do to his Dad, who owned the glider
When you really need it it doesn't always get you out of trouble!

Fitter2

25th Oct 2018, 14:39

As the expensive glider also suffered damage (though nobody hurt inside the car or the glider) rumour had it that the Jones lad had some serious explaining to do to his Dad, who owned the glider
When you really need it it doesn't always get you out of trouble!

Actually, Mary, it was a borrowed glider (Janus M) the owners were trying to sell at the time, and had said "If you break it, make sure it's a write-off". They agreed Steve had inadvertently fully complied with instructions.

blind pew

25th Oct 2018, 15:04

closest that I've come to getting seriously injured in 50 years plus of flying has been with a pop up motor.. three separate occasions. when I first got it was asked by the Cfi of the Ulster club as he was doing an accident investigation on one that had piled in on its first flight with a new owner.
There are some good points but the system design on some of them and there usage leave a lot to be desired.

JW411

25th Oct 2018, 15:30

And let us not forget that with most pop-up motors, once they have popped-up, you have to dive to get the speed up in order to get the prop to turn. Which always assumes that you have enough spare height left to use up in diving in the first place.

JW411

25th Oct 2018, 15:48

By the way, does anyone else remember having to do an engine re-start in the air as part of their PPL syllabus? I did my PPL on the Tiger Moth in 1958 and remember this exercise well. I seem to remember that "Sir" would stop the prop during a stall turn to the right. Then it was a case of heading downwards at terminal velocity watching the marked reluctance for the prop to even show signs of turning over. From memory, at least 2,000 ft would be consumed in the process.

Maoraigh1

25th Oct 2018, 19:10

I was told it was not part of the PPL. It was in case you decided to continue to a CPL.
Done in the Tiger Moth during my 1964 PPL, at Thruxton. It needed a lot of height.
Most of the training was on Jackeroos. The one Tiger was dual only, for stalls and spins.
(There was no starter motor, for those who don't know the aircraft.)

Deltasierra010

27th Oct 2018, 18:24

This is one of the risks you take by flying cliffs in a glider, it is very much an adventure sport and all part of the challenge, it occasionally it goes wrong. The cautious way of starting a turbo is to pick your field first, from a sensible height and anything less than 1000 ft is risky because with a windmilling prop you loose height quickly.
The Duo Discus is probably the easiest starting turbo the engine will start at not much more than 50 knts so you should not loose much height, BUT, if something goes wrong and it doesn't fire up down you go. Quite likely turbos have slipped below the cliffs before and cruised away with the motor, thankfully no injuries, does anyone know the fate of the glider.

Auxtank

27th Oct 2018, 18:34

Quite likely turbos have slipped below the cliffs before and cruised away with the motor, thankfully no injuries, does anyone know the fate of the glider.

Lost at sea - for now. Certainly was bottom of the list of things to rescue that day with two chaps in the (chilly) water.

These 'turbos' sound really hit and miss. I've always been frightened by gliders. Birds don't have fixed wings with no further option - they can always flap them - equivalent is a Lycoming spinning on the front end. I'll stick with that.

EXWOK

28th Oct 2018, 03:33

I've always been frightened by gliders

I have approx 2.5k hrs in gliders and about the same in single engine piston aircraft. I’ve never been frightened in a glider, but have been somewhat concerned on several occasions when the ‘Lycoming spinning on the front end’ decided to stop spinning.

The inherent risk is lower in a glider than an SEP simply because there’s less stuff to fail!

mary meagher

28th Oct 2018, 07:00

In Texas, attempting to come to terms with the US requirements for a motor glider license, one of the requirements was to do a dive start of the engine. That didn't suit me at all. Throwing height away just to start the engine? and it took a rather deep dive for the instructor to get the engine to start! Decided not to bother with a motor glider license, but be satisfied with the plain and simple power/ or glider, one or the other. Never did like motor gliders anyway.
In a glider, you are still hopefully scratching around over a town or other suitable feature right down to base turn for the chosen field, and 9 out of 10 you do manage to get away in the glider.

India Four Two

28th Oct 2018, 08:47

And let us not forget that with most pop-up motors, once they have popped-up, you have to dive to get the speed

I’m a bit surprised by this statement. The five types with pop-ups, that I am familiar with, all have electric starters.

Concerning air starts, that is something I have familiarity with. I used to do checkouts in a Motorfalke. Although the starter was 100% reliable, we had to get the student to perform an air-start, which involved diving at 45° and accelerating up to nearly 80 kts before the prop would turn over. A lot of height was lost!

Flyin'Dutch'

28th Oct 2018, 12:23

The typical pop-up engine gliders come in two varieties - sustainers, these are smaller less powerful engines which will typically give some height gain and get you back home, and self-launchers, these are more powerful and, as the name suggests, can launch the gliders.

The former are usually air started by doing a gentle dive, pull the decompression lever, allowing the prop/engine to spin up and when you then let go the engine will run (usually)

The self-launchers typically have an electric start.

Either system is not always as reliable as one would wish, and people do get caught out by relying on the functioning of the engine. Our MO was to go for the engine sooner rather than later and make sure you were in an area where landing out would not end up in damage of the glider or its occupants.

Having an engine revolutionises the gliding cross country experience - being able to plan something at the end of a flying day is nicer than having to wait (for hours) for one's retrieval crew. That is very much more a young person's game where time is not an issue.

Jazzer83

14th Nov 2018, 21:29

From what I've read gliders are somewhat safer than single engine piston types.

Qwikstop

18th Nov 2018, 09:43

There was a nice piece on this by The Flying Reporter.
https://youtu.be/QaTE4zT-8Is

Rory166

3rd Mar 2019, 09:46

From what I've read gliders are somewhat safer than single engine piston types.

Part of that statistic must be that gliding is of necessity a fair weather activity. Personally I feel very safe using a winch launch but less so with an Aerotow where you are dependant on the single engine piston type in front and a bit of string connecting the two, leaving the end of the runway at 100 ft leaves only one option in the event of a failure. That is to land ahead whilst trying to avoid the most haxardous looking objects, not an enticing thought. By contrast with a winch launch you gain 1000 ft in half the length of the runway and practice winch failure at all heights.

snapper1

5th Mar 2019, 21:27

Depends on what you mean by fair weather. Mountain-lee-wave days are by definition windy and often rather sporty but its usually only a problem if you fly into the rotor.

MacLaren1

15th Oct 2019, 16:01

An interesting investigation of this incident from the BGA here (https://members.gliding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/04/2019005-BGA-Accident-Investigation-Report-22-Feb-19-Duo-Discus-G-CJUM.pdf)

.... with lessons for us all (glider and power).

blind pew

16th Oct 2019, 13:23

Peer pressure to fly, land at the threshold, launch in dodgy conditions. (Including winch with tailwind and negative wind grsdient)
Broke several ribs after an accident when I had already declined to winch after sunset on a federation run course for paraglider instructors.
lost a glider and pilot yesterday at my old French club..looks like weak conditions for slope soaring.

MacLaren1

16th Oct 2019, 16:00

Easily done indeed, and there but for the grace of God, etc.

The club have been remarkably transparent in their latest newsletter here (http://southdownsoaring.com/Southdown%20Soaring-%20Sept%20-%202019%20Vol%2028.pdf) (see "Life of Brian" and the following piece "Duncan explains").

All credit to them.

ETOPS

17th Oct 2019, 10:15

A non glider pilot asks "why didn't they start the engine?"

Fitter2

17th Oct 2019, 11:29

Hi ETOPS

Sensible question. The Schemmp-Hirth 'turbo' gliders (a bit misleading, they have normally aspirated 2 cylinder 2 stroke retractable engines) start by windmilling the engine. There is a decompressor which helps to get the prop spinning fast enough for the engine to start, and an electric fuel pump to get fuel flow started, no choke so the mixture is not made richer to cold start. The engine also has a cutout for overspeed.

Start procedure then:

Engine master on
Switch to extend engine
Fuel cock on
Fuel pump to on
Ignition on

When pylon fully up (green light on control unit )

Pull decompressor
Increase speed to manual recommended IAS (for my glider 68kts)
When engine is turning, release decompressor
Assuming engine fires on both cylinders, reduce speed to best climb (for my glider 55 kts) or overspeed will cause engine cut.

It may sound one-armed paperhanger, but with regular practice (one carries out a regular engine check) maximum height loss (decision to low point) can be as little as 300ft, but more usually 400 to 500. But if the engine doesn't start, it is in a higher drag configuration and 500 feet lower than before. I never had a non-start in 10 years of ownership, but I always decided to start the engine at no lower than 1,000ft, with an alternative plan available for a non-start.

blind pew

17th Oct 2019, 13:12

You were lucky..some of my most hairy moments in 50 years were with turbos.

first series were after co owner got the fuel lines crossed and pumped petrol into the sump which got it making a lot of noise.
Years later ended up doing a course reversal below 50ft at Puimosson with it making a lot of noise only to find power returned when I cut the fuel off prior to flairing.
designer informed me that there was an airbox mod to solve the over rich problem at altitude..alps..only one half of the engine was producing power.
He was against the starting sequence and had said that the sailplane designer wanted it so contary to his wishes.He wanted one switch and the decompressor.
Whilst a good get me home device not a system to be used if you are in the mire.

RatherBeFlying

17th Oct 2019, 15:54

Very sad to hear that BGA has permanently barred the PIC from instructing. Here in Canada I know six instructors who have written off or seriously damaged gliders at some time in their careers.

pilotmike

17th Oct 2019, 16:45

Very sad to hear that BGA has permanently barred the PIC from instructing.
Really? It sounds eminently sensible to me. Without wishing to be too personal, everyone gets to an age where they not only start becoming a danger to themselves, but also to others if allowed to continue to instruct, ie. have innocent people's lives in their hands. This instructor was 78, and this accident helps to illustrate my point. Most people are able to make that difficult decision for themselves. Unfortunately others have accidents such as this to prompt them. And some need the decision to be taken for them.

I was exposed to such a problem when learning to glide in the 80s. The most senior and experienced instructor who was in his 70s, needed to be lifted into and out of the rear seat of the (canvass and wood) K13 glider, due to an injury from a former flying accident. He would habitually ask the student to take full control - even complete novices - then he would light up from the back seat and puff away. As they were rollups, often a glowing piece of the fag would drop to the 'floor', and you just had to pray it would self-extinguish before setting the whole show alight. I always hoped to goodness he wouldn't light up when we were above 3,000', and would deliberately 'fall' out of the thermal if I smelled him light up, keeping a very discerning nose out for the change in smell of the standard tobacco smoke to something more sinister, and a keen eye on the airbrake to get us down pronto if I did smell that the glider was catching alight.

I believe this practice continued into the 1990s with him being in his 80s and even less able, but still not giving up on the airborne fags. The odd thing was, nobody had the balls or the strength of character to tell him to stop doing it, such was the misplaced trust and respect placed in him, as founder of the gliding club, whilst he continued this highly questionable (some would say completely idiotic) practice.

blind pew

18th Oct 2019, 07:22

At a southern french club one of the old bullies pulled up in a nimbus 4 straight into a ls8..had to bail out. Few months later scraped into tge normally non landable part of the airfield downwind in a K13 having got p#ssed off with the tug pilot (me) as I wouldnt go out of gliding range during early part of the tow. His influence stopped me tugging as I remonstrated that he should have lost his instructor rating. The club had another fatal on tuesday.
But we had an excellent instructor in his late 70s with parkinsons..often seen doing slow rolls overhead.
not all to be tarred with the same brush.

DaveJ75

18th Oct 2019, 17:55

davydine

21st Oct 2019, 12:00

Really? It sounds eminently sensible to me. Without wishing to be too personal, everyone gets to an age where they not only start becoming a danger to themselves, but also to others if allowed to continue to instruct, ie. have innocent people's lives in their hands. This instructor was 78, and this accident helps to illustrate my point. Most people are able to make that difficult decision for themselves. Unfortunately others have accidents such as this to prompt them. And some need the decision to be taken for them.

I was exposed to such a problem when learning to glide in the 80s. The most senior and experienced instructor who was in his 70s, needed to be lifted into and out of the rear seat of the (canvass and wood) K13 glider, due to an injury from a former flying accident. He would habitually ask the student to take full control - even complete novices - then he would light up from the back seat and puff away. As they were rollups, often a glowing piece of the fag would drop to the 'floor', and you just had to pray it would self-extinguish before setting the whole show alight. I always hoped to goodness he wouldn't light up when we were above 3,000', and would deliberately 'fall' out of the thermal if I smelled him light up, keeping a very discerning nose out for the change in smell of the standard tobacco smoke to something more sinister, and a keen eye on the airbrake to get us down pronto if I did smell that the glider was catching alight.

I believe this practice continued into the 1990s with him being in his 80s and even less able, but still not giving up on the airborne fags. The odd thing was, nobody had the balls or the strength of character to tell him to stop doing it, such was the misplaced trust and respect placed in him, as founder of the gliding club, whilst he continued this highly questionable (some would say completely idiotic) practice.

Reading this story makes me think we may have learned at the same club, but I did not start until 1991 and the elderly instructor was an increasingly rare visitor, I don't think it is relevant to this case but it must be very hard for club members when there is a senior member that really should hang up their goggles, but is reluctant to do so.

pilotmike

21st Oct 2019, 16:38

You are correct davydine - PM sent.

Deltasierra010

21st Oct 2019, 20:13

Until recently it was normal for unnamed instructors to be included on many glider insurance policies at no charge this has not been continued on mine, understandably the risks of instructing others may cause an incident when the pupil does something entirely unexpected.
Im sure CFIs are aware but how can you predict that someone is going to have a bad day.

Il Duce

22nd Oct 2019, 16:02

The BGA report would have more credibility without the spelling errors. Is it too much of a "traumer" to run a spell check?

India Four Two

22nd Oct 2019, 18:03

Deltasierra,

Luckily we don’t have insurance issues like that in Canada. Almost all gliders are insured through the Soaring Association of Canada, so if you are qualified and a gliding club member, you can fly any glider. The hull and any personal liability is covered under the SAC’s policy.

As an aside the same thing applies to cars. I can let anybody with a licence drive my car. It used to amuse me that when I visited my mother in Dorset, she had to contact her insurance agent and get temporary cover for me!

Maoraigh1

22nd Oct 2019, 19:08

My understanding of Syndicate powered aircraft insurance is it covers the members, and any qualified Instructor giving them instruction. As Instructor, he will be P1, and otherwise aircraft would be uninsured. The member already has the specified hours.
This is still the case. Basic instruction would require a different policy.

Deltasierra010

26th Oct 2019, 12:55

In my case it is a privately owned single seater, previously instructors were included at no extra cost. To reduce the premium I limited pilots to 500hrs and 5yrs claim free, now that feature is not offered, and I’m not going to pay extra for it to be included.

Maoraigh1

26th Oct 2019, 18:39

If that becomes standard on power aircraft, pilots would be unable to have their "biennial" "hour-with-an-instructor" in their own aircraft.
I've avoided this, as I'm not happy to be Pu/t in an aircraft which the Instructor is unfamiliar with. I do in a Flying School Aircraft.
There have been accidents where the Instructor was unfamiliar with the aircraft type.

MCR01

4th Dec 2019, 14:52

Smoking instructors and instructor "age" are not related. I did my PPL(SLMG) at a central UK motor glider school, the instructor was about my age, maybe younger, he routinely smoked in the back of a Tandem Falke. So doped fabric construction plus petrol.......
Not surprisingly he did not make it to old age.

DaveJ75

4th Dec 2019, 18:20

BGE Report... given the (frankly awful) discussion section is crammed with typos, unsubstantiated leaps and clumsy application of HF labels and cognitive biases. The BGA really should peer review this stuff.

I take it all back... the AAIB report of G-CFMY isn't any better frankly: 'The lack of climb could be an indication that the pilot was starting to feel unwell or simply that there were no thermals in this area' I don't want to comment further on a clearly very sad event but the report is close to meaningless.

6th Dec 2019, 17:25

I take it all back... the AAIB report of G-CFMY isn't any better frankly: 'The lack of climb could be an indication that the pilot was starting to feel unwell or simply that there were no thermals in this area' I don't want to comment further on a clearly very sad event but the report is close to meaningless.

The repot contains a lot more factual information than you imply. It actually goes into some depth surrounding this sad event. I think it is a good document not filled with, for some, obscure suppositions...unlike the Beachy Head report.

rb14

12th Dec 2019, 06:08

The report contains a lot more factual information than you imply.

Although I'm not sure how true this sentence is, from early on in the report: "He landed in a field near Ruffin". I'm guessing they're referring to the town of Ruthin, North Wales, which is pronounced Rith-in and sometimes Ruth-in (the 'u' as in 'tug'). Of course it might be that François Ruffin, Member of the French National Assembly happened to be in the field at the time. But you'd think they might have mentioned that.

Ridger

12th Dec 2019, 20:44

Although I'm not sure how true this sentence is, from early on in the report: "He landed in a field near Ruffin". I'm guessing they're referring to the town of Ruthin, North Wales, which is pronounced Rith-in and sometimes Ruth-in (the 'u' as in 'tug'). Of course it might be that François Ruffin, Member of the French National Assembly happened to be in the field at the time. But you'd think they might have mentioned that.

I enjoyed that immensely RB14! It's a similarly plausible theory I agree! 'The pilot made several sharp turns at low altitude, either because he was conducting a completely normal field landing, or possibly to avoid François Ruffin'