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Pontius Navigator
13th Oct 2018, 09:35
I have experienced a fair number of coincidences that I can recall. Frequently Mrs PN will say something that I am thinking. It may be mundane such as shall we go to the pub for supper. Now there are many possible reasons caused by our environment at that moment but there are other much more improbable.

Driving with our friends and they are talking about their son in Malta on holiday, at that instance he rings.

Bumped into an acquaintance who invited us to an event 3 weeks hence. Day before he is thinking he shout ring to confirm we shall attend. At that moment I rang him. There are other coincidence of communication between the most casual of acquaintances and the express it 'I was just thinking . . . '

It is almost as if there is a massive matrix of brain signals encircling the earth that we filter to create one to one communication. Think a superior communication system where like fibre optics where we link to only the bit we want. The difference is that it uses no medium that we understand and that we haven't learnt how to exploit it.

We know our brains produce electrical signals. Is it fanciful to think there is a universal brainwave communications system?

G-CPTN
13th Oct 2018, 10:03
Perhaps brainwaves are like radio waves?

Uplinker
13th Oct 2018, 10:09
Mrs Uplinker and I often experience “coincidences” similar to those that you do, and the number of times I have either looked at my phone or have been thinking about her before the text from her arrives, is way more than coincidence, so I am pretty sure that ESP exists. Of course, there may be other cues at play, but we are both aircrew so have random rosters - it’s not as if we always call each other on a particular day or time, it is random. It is possible that our brains can detect the confirmation transmission from our phone when a text is being delivered, but before the phone has lit up or vibrated, so perhaps we can subconsciously detect an incoming text or call before the phone has told us.

But if it is ESP, we can’t control it. I can’t consciously send a brain message - it would be interesting if we could.

Not sure about a net of brain signals encircling the earth, but scientists have demonstrated two separated atoms mirroring each others’ spin or whatever, while situated too far apart for any known effects to produce this phenomenon. I cannot remember what they call it, so can’t even check Wikipedia, but that might be how ESP works?

Ah, got it: Quantum entanglement - which is not fully understood yet, but appears to operate faster than the speed of light, (and therefore radio waves), which is not currently thought to be possible.

Ascend Charlie
13th Oct 2018, 10:59
Brain waves are propagated via chemtrails, so it is essential we keep a goodly supply of them up there. Brainwaves can be deflected by tinfoil.

VP959
13th Oct 2018, 11:09
It's hard to tell the difference between coincidence and something deeper, IMHO, as we have no easy way to test what are usually one-off events. I witnessed a really odd thing when I was a teenager.

My mother and I were the only two people awake in the house one evening, and she was sat knitting, I was reading a book, with just the radio on. She suddenly put down her knitting, got up and told me that she was just going to drive over and see my grandparents. They lived about 10 miles away.

She came back home late that evening and I asked if everything was OK. She said they were fine, but that my grandfather thought he had a cold coming on. He was 73 years old and in good health.

The next morning we had a phone call to say that my grandfather had died in his sleep that night.

My mother had no idea at all why she suddenly got the idea to drive over and see him the evening before he died. It's not something she had ever done before, and at the time it seemed really odd, to me, for her to just leave me alone in the house to look after my younger brothers and sister, as I was only 15, and my little sister was only 4 years old. My father was in hospital at the time, but had he been at home then I'd have been the one looking after him as well (he was wheelchair bound when at home).

Was this just an odd coincidence that she suddenly felt the need to see her father, hours before he unexpectedly died, or was it something else? My mother was a bit of a serious God-botherer, so was absolutely convinced that it was a message from her God. I've never been convinced by that as an explanation, but I also find it hard to explain what happened as just being coincidence.

Pontius Navigator
13th Oct 2018, 12:14
But if it is ESP, we can’t control it. I can’t consciously send a brain message - it would be interesting if we could.

Yes, it's not controllable but seems to just happen. That it happens more than between people who are close,as VP says, but also between casual meets makes it very strange.


It does not seem limited to humans. Dogs seem to have some link too as they seem to sense when their owner is nearing home and far earlier than hearing would seem possible.

*SHJ, not ESP but the drated PT as I had to leave when SWMBO called.

SpringHeeledJack
13th Oct 2018, 12:29
It Does not seem condoms to humans. Dogs seem to have some link too.

My ESP is tweaking!

Stan Woolley
13th Oct 2018, 12:49
Have you looked at the work of Dr Dean Radin?

https://youtu.be/Aan5hiQYlNs

Stan Woolley
13th Oct 2018, 13:09
Was this just an odd coincidence that she suddenly felt the need to see her father, hours before he unexpectedly died, or was it something else?

Good story. I have a close friend who poo poohs my sideways interest in things, I just can’t discuss certain things with him, there’s little point.

His mum called him the night she died, a very unusual occurrence. Like you, he feels it was unusual, but he thinks it must be down to chance. There is too much evidence of such events for it to be chance imo. Dean Radin is a serious scientist that has carried out lots of experiments around consciousness, he is totally happy that esp has been proven. He doesn’t even discuss it with those who deny its existence any longer. He says many scientists talk to him about this stuff, but want their personal views kept secret from their public ones.

lomapaseo
13th Oct 2018, 14:40
My ESP is tweaking!


I know what you're thinking

Pontius Navigator
13th Oct 2018, 17:16
Stan, I would not really classify Dean's observations as a serious study but would agree ESP does seem to exist. In his case, two strangers, but how far apart were they when the contact was initiated?

We know that rather crude sensors on the head can be used to print brain waves but far more sensitive sensors might detect such waves over greater distances. What we seem to have is plenty of instances of contact rather than actual message. In the case of a close couple we seem to have message as well.

Two of mine: expecting to hear from a travel agent, she rang at exactly the nearest point where we were passing a couple of hundred yards away. The other where a pre-arranged meeting had been cancelled days before. On the appointed day I was on the wrong tube platform when he got off the tube exactly in front of me. The odds of chance had to be millions. How did it happen?

There.must be so many brainwaves travelling at unimaginable speed and NOT conflicting.

Out Of Trim
13th Oct 2018, 17:28
It Does not seem condoms to humans. Dogs seem to have some link too.

My ESP tells me that Pontius Navigator should perhaps turn off the predictive text !

VP959
13th Oct 2018, 17:35
There are also seemingly improbable coincidences, though. We had a chap come into a lab at work to test some lifting gear, and as he walked in we both looked at each other, both thinking we'd met before. This lab was at a research establishment down in Cornwall, in a corner of RNAS Culdrose (it's long since closed). Neither of us said anything for a while, as neither (it turned out later) could recall where we might have met. Eventually the chap asked if I'd been in the RAF (I hadn't) and I then remembered where we'd met, in a portacabin at 280 Signals Unit, at the end of the Gata Peninsula, Akrotiri. He'd been the Chief Tech looking after an S259 radar that my boss and I were doing some trials with back in 1974. I'd moved from the lab I was then working at (which was sat within RAF Northolt) down to Cornwall; he'd left the RAF and moved down to Cornwall to work for the lifting equipment company. Seemed really improbable that we should both meet again after around 15 years, in completely different surroundings.

SpringHeeledJack
13th Oct 2018, 18:01
I rented a room from a lady many years ago who owned a rather nasty cat named Ivan (The Terrible). We kept our respective distances from one another. However, each evening the cat would come into my room, be friendly and hop up onto the window ledge. Within 10mins the cat's owner would come home. Observing this happenstance over a year, it became clear that the cat knew by some form of ESP when it's owner was coming, despite the homecoming almost never being at the same time, sometimes several hours different. When the owner was away on business, the cat only came near me to be fed or cuddle up next to me during the cold winter months.

pulse1
13th Oct 2018, 18:08
I have recently become aware that modern neuroscientists are reporting many exciting aspects of brain waves and their possible effect on the world beyond the brain. It seems to me that their work could well challenge some traditional religious thinking just the same way as Galileo did. My daughter is a Life Coach and practices a lot of the techniques which appear at first to be akin to snake oil but which can be related to modern neuroscience. The success rate she enjoys in healing people, particularly from stress and anxiety, could be a lot of coincidences but, it seems to me, even the strongest cynic would have to start accepting that there is something in it. A couple of months ago I never thought I would be writing that.

Stan Woolley
13th Oct 2018, 18:25
Pontius and SHJ.

I doubt that Dean Radin himself would class this as anything but an anecdote, he does proper scientific experiments for a living.

Both of you might enjoy reading about Dr Rupert Sheldrake, who has also carried out experiments on dogs as well as being an expert in consciousness type questions.

Here are a couple of interviews.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgIKRK_QX2o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw_O9Qiwqew

SpringHeeledJack
13th Oct 2018, 18:25
I have recently become aware that modern neuroscientists are reporting many exciting aspects of brain waves and their possible effect on the world beyond the brain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNCwx6I-MF0&frags=pl%2Cwn

G-CPTN
13th Oct 2018, 18:57
1962 I was on my way through London, changing stations.
It was my first visit to London since 1950 when my grandfather took me to stay at the Strand Palace hotel.
The only person that I knew of in London was my mother's cousin who was a detective in the fingerprint department of the Met.
As I was about to descend the steps of a subway, he emerged from the steps and we almost bumped into each other . . .

Pontius Navigator
13th Oct 2018, 19:13
G-CPTN, yes that, unlike VPs last one, is much more curious. What made two uncommitted journeys interesect. Bumping into people you once met, We or in related fields, is much more likely, like 3 persons of separation (or it it 6).

I did have one surprising meeting which was not ESP but . . .

I met the Wg Cdr at Bentwaters very briefly at a welcome BBQ. A few months later, leaving an hotel in Keswick I bumped into him - pure coincidence. But this is the ESP bit, we both recognised each other. AFAIK there had been nothing significant when we first met.

er340790
13th Oct 2018, 19:31
Was this just an odd coincidence that she suddenly felt the need to see her father, hours before he unexpectedly died, or was it something else?

Are you SURE she didn't top him??? :E

My Husky is one smart hound. I can't even THINK the letters w-a-l-k before she's going nuts. :eek:

Random SLF
13th Oct 2018, 19:49
I get déjà vu at least twice a year and its happened to me three times this year already, most recently last week - there was part of a conversation in the office at work about a specific issue which had just cropped up, which I'd heard before - years ago, in a dream.
I regularly have a recurring dream just before waking for a few days at a time, then it stops and I forget all about it. The dream is about me being among people I don't know (yet) in places I don't know (yet) and makes no sense whatsoever at the time.
Months later, I have another one about myself in a different scenario, and so on. It can be years before I realise what these 'premonitions' (if that's what they are) signify. To me, they signify that all is going to plan and that some things really are meant to be.
I don't fight it, I've lived with it all my life and simply accept it. I don't think I'm psychic or anything, although I once met an amateur 'medium' who picked up on it straight away and didn't like what she thought was competition!

G-CPTN
13th Oct 2018, 20:11
In the mid 1980s I got a new job based in Bristol, and, in order to research a suitable location where to buy a house, I 'hopped' from guest house to guest house so that I could get a feel for the surroundings. I rarely returned to the same guest house (I was covering a large area of Somerset).
I had just arrived at this particular guest house as dinner was about to be served.
One of the other guests explained that he wouldn't be joining us for dinner as he was to be collected by the person that he was to meet with the following day and taken out for a meal.
When that person arrived and came into the room, one of the other guests greeted the visitor as someone that he had known from a few years previously based in another part of the country. I greeted the same visitor as someone that I had known from my home town 320 miles north some 25 years previously.

Chronus
13th Oct 2018, 20:15
It`s all to do with neurons. According to some estimates we humans have 100 billion give or take a billion or two.

ShyTorque
13th Oct 2018, 21:19
When I was a child (early 1960s) I was very shy. We didn't have a phone at home. My father occasionally used a nearby public telephone box to call his sister, who lived down south (we were up north, like). He often took me along but he could never get me to speak to my her, my aunt, due to my great shyness.

One evening I was out playing with some friends near that phone box and to everyone's surprise, the phone in there began ringing. I have no idea why, but to the even greater surprise of my friends, I suddenly felt compelled to cross the road and answer the phone and I did. It was my aunt. She was desperate to get a message to my father because her husband had been taken seriously ill. She was just hoping a passer by would answer the phone and take a message to our house.

I don't know who was more surprised, me or her! I don't think I'd ever spoken to anyone on a phone before....

Since then, due to the many "coincidences" I'd had over the years, my wife sees me as "a bit psychic". Thinking about this, so did my dear old Mum. As a young child I used to see my maternal grandparents only infrequently. Then a family rift occurred (nothing to do with me) and I didn't see them again until it was all sorted out when I was in my twenties and an RAF Officer. Many years later, after they had both passed away, I spoke to my mother about the old house they used to live in. I mentioned that I vividly remembered the old dog my grandfather had under his chair. My mother went white - she told me he didn't have a dog. I disagreed and described it to her. She went even whiter and told me that dog had died years before I was born.

DType
13th Oct 2018, 21:53
I'm always very cautious about these things, but:-
Our daughter (OD) was friendly with a neighbour's daughter (ND). In due course OD moved to England and ND moved to Canada.
One morning, ND rang her parents to say she had had a dream that OD was gravely ill. Our neighbours assured her that OD was just fine, which was 100% wrong.
The news had not yet travelled across our street that OD was in a coma after a near fatal car crash, and that we had just left Edinburgh for the Middlesbrough hospital.
But then the Bible does say that God uses dreams on occasion.
PS OD is working, kayaking, skiing and climbing again, phew!!

Bull at a Gate
13th Oct 2018, 22:51
Every day there are many events, perhaps thousands, in our lives which do not result in us saying “that was a coincidence”. We don’t remember them. So it’s a “no ESP” from me.

BehindBlueEyes
13th Oct 2018, 23:08
i was always convinced my recently departed Labrador used ESP. Over the years, apart from his regular walk, there times when I would suddenly think to myself that because it was a lovely evening or I just needed some fresh air, I fancied going out with him again. These thoughts would only have just come into my head, I hadn’t moved from my seat or stopped what I was doing, I hadn’t spoken to anyone else in the house about my intentions but he would suddenly get off his bed or appear from somewhere in the house and look at me with great expectation. I never worked out how he knew exactly what I was planning.

i also had for many years, a temperamental laptop that I refused to give up on. Whenever I lifted the lid, the dog would run out of the room. My wife, however, put that more down to the fact that whenever I used the thing, my shouting and swearing at its inefficiency frightened the dog more than psychic powers. It just fascinated me that just the mere action of opening up the computer had this effect.

My daughter and wife definitely have an ESP relationship. The times that they text each other with news or an idea, only to find that their messages have crossed because they’ve just had the same thought at the same moment. Now that is weird.

ExSp33db1rd
13th Oct 2018, 23:52
I'm getting confused now between ESP - e.g. when two people might think about, or contact, each other at the same time whilst many miles apart, or plain coincidence when for instance two long separated people find themselves in the same unfamiliar place ? Surely that which controls ESP - if such a phenomenon exists - can't physically control two people to the extent that they travel many miles to coincidentally arrive at the same place at the same time - can it ?

I've described elsewhere that the surgeon in charge of my recent operation in New Zealand was an English Ex-pat who had been a school friend of the son of the barsteward who caused my original marriage breakdown in England - 40 years ago. I don't regard that as ESP, but definitely a coincidence. ( I got superb medical attention ! )

I definitely believe in coincidence, but ESP ? Tho' I must agree that the action of dogs and cats sometimes takes a bit of explaining, my dog was almost always outside ready to leap on to me as I opened the car door after a 100 mile drive following a few irregularly scheduled days away out of the Country.

Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.

Pontius Navigator
14th Oct 2018, 08:20
Coincidence is probably just chance though is it possible that at least one of the people have been directed? In my London underground case I was engrossed in conversation with a colleague for the course we had left. Wrong platform at exactly the right time and exactly the right place to literally bump into my friend who was going to where we had been. It was just me in the wrong place, timing however was something I had had no control over.

double_barrel
14th Oct 2018, 08:49
Every day there are many events, perhaps thousands, in our lives which do not result in us saying “that was a coincidence”. We don’t remember them. So it’s a “no ESP” from me.

Quite.

Combine that with the inevitable embellishment by the naive and the active use of the Barnum effect by the professionals, and there is no need to invoke ESP to explain what we see.

Hydromet
14th Oct 2018, 08:50
I guess a coincidence is when something that has a low probability of happening happens. I would class the following as a coincidence, rather than supernatural.

Many years ago I had to have emergency surgery because of a gallstones and a blocked bile duct. Fortunately, I was close to a good hospital in Sydney and there were no dramas. However, a couple of years previous, we'd been living in a small country town where I wouldn't have had access to the same facilities. One day my wife was visiting and wondered what would have happened if we'd still been in the country town. As I was telling her that Geoff, the local surgeon, would have done it, my surgeon worked in and asked how I knew Geoff. Turned out they'd been in high school together.
The coincidences continue. It turned out that the cousin of the Dr. who assisted the surgeon was our former GP in Adelaide,

Hokulea
14th Oct 2018, 10:24
It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world. Coincidences happen but when put to the test there has never been anyone able to show psychic powers. From the late and great James Randi:

https://youtu.be/2MFAvH8m8aI

Pontius Navigator
14th Oct 2018, 11:40
Hok, I would not say ESP is controllable and 'positive' results of experiments might be suggestive but could equally be chance. To sit in a room and think RED and for someone I another room to say red, well I would not call that ESP either.

I once made a decision not to pull out and cross in front of a truck, tight but otherwise doable. Moments later a car overtook that truck exactly where I would have been but I would not claim ESP.

Son ringing mother at exactly the moment she had just started to talk about him - coincidence - perhaps, but just possible to be something else. I just think it possible but so advanced that we have no way yet to quantify, qualify, or exploit it.

Hokulea
14th Oct 2018, 11:49
Pontius - thanks for your response. I wonder how many times the mother started talking about her son and he didn't call?

cattletruck
14th Oct 2018, 12:04
ESP or coincidence? I prefer to call it "good reception".

Some of us are better tuned to that thing that makes the universe tick than others - that's about it.
It also goes by other similar terms such as - divine providence, it is written, destiny, luck, in this life, god willing, etc.

We are all made out of star dust.

Pontius Navigator
14th Oct 2018, 12:42
Pontius - thanks for your response. I wonder how many times the mother started talking about her son and he didn't call?
Not infrequently I would imagine but there was context too. Not context that would make him likely to call but relevant when he called.

G-CPTN
14th Oct 2018, 13:08
Colleague from the UK was working in Denmark (for a Danish company) - having emigrated and married a Dane. He takes a business trip to Tokyo, with a one night stopover in Hong Kong.
Naturally, he visits Victoria Peak to view the sunset. Whilst there he finds himself standing next to someone that he was at school with, who was doing the journey in reverse, having just come from Tokyo, having a one-night stopover in Hong Kong before continuing to the UK.

BehindBlueEyes
14th Oct 2018, 13:20
I am convinced that we all have an inherent response , probably a survival one, that in a structured society we haven’t needed for centuries - often referred to as gut instinct. I’ve posted this before but I’ve met people over the years that for some inexplicable reason I’ve either taken an immediate dislike too or feel that I can’t quite trust them and can’t put my finger on why. As time has gone on, I’ve lowered my guard and often thought that my first impression was totally wrong, only for that same person to then behave or do something that reaffirmed my intital negative inclination. The longer I live, the more I realise that I need to trust my own intuition more. Mrs BBE seems to be even more finely tuned on this one.

Not it sure whether this is true ESP but it’s certainly something that is happening below the subconscious level.

Pontius Navigator
14th Oct 2018, 15:15
BBE, an Army psychologist observed that an expert instructor could often identify a high training risk after only a brief meeting. The cost of then confirming they were unsuitable was not insignificant and could have been saved had intuition been followed.

Similarly two of us ranked my pass/fail students after just a short initial meeting. No 1 made Group Captain, No 2 made AVM, No 3 failed but should have passed, No 4 passed but no star we had had him as a fail, No 5-7 all failed. It had to be intuition as Mrs PN, a nurse, had made exactly the same assessment and no conferring.

SpringHeeledJack
14th Oct 2018, 17:14
It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world.

It shouldn't matter what pilots or any of us think/believe, you do your job in the way you were trained and that should be that, the two things are mutually exclusive. As some posters have mentioned there are abilities that we possess that lie dormant for the most part. When I've spent days in wilderness my senses all became hightened, including my extra-sensory perceptions of possible dangers and things around me.

SpringHeeledJack
14th Oct 2018, 17:16
It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world.

It shouldn't matter what pilots or any of us think/believe, you do your job in the way you were trained and that should be that, the two things are mutually exclusive. As some posters have mentioned there are abilities that we possess that lie dormant for the most part. When I've spent days in wilderness my senses all became hightened, including my extra-sensory perceptions of possible dangers and things around me. Part of the hardwiring being brought into play when needed.

Pontius Navigator
14th Oct 2018, 17:29
SHJ, on your last sentence, 'the hairs on the back of your neck ', explains that doesn't it.

Icare9
15th Oct 2018, 10:51
I have a friend that I have never met except in cyber space.
On another forum she posted about researching a soldier.
I responded that I thought she had the wrong regiment (Green Howards, not The Buffs) but something intrigued me to research her chap further.

We exchanged email addresses and then one day, months later I had a feeling something was wrong with her.

Now, I have many people I meet in cyber space and help with their research but something made this insistent.
I emailed her saying I had suddenly thought about her and wanted to know if anything was wrong.
Turned out that she had just received a diagnosis about a heart ailment she'd suffered with for years.
I then started to tell her what I could sense was wrong (having no more than rudimentary anatomy) but apparently told her what the specialist had said, almost word for word.

Since then, there have been many occasions when I've sensed something and should get in touch.
Every time there is a reason

I don't have this connection with others, although I can sometimes tell what aches and pains people have, but not all.

Nor can she sense anything about me. it just seems to work one way and with her.

She lives hundreds of miles away, and we've never met or spoken on the phone.

3 weeks ago I go a sudden "Meg" moment, but put it aside, A few days later, again and a few days later again, but not imperative, if you can understand that.

This weekend I got in touch with her to help with some of my research and found that she'd been having some health problems from 3 weeks ago... she's seeing a specialist tomorrow and I've told her that although the procedure will be unpleasant the result s will be the mildest form.
I wonder what will happen?
Neither of us can explain it, so we joke it must have been in a previous life!

Now I'll put on my tinfoil cap again.......

pulse1
15th Oct 2018, 11:29
It may be that ESP can work in reverse or, shall we say, in more proactive sense. One of my sons has a very quick temper, especially when he is trying to deal with his mother's strange sense of logic. Sometimes we wonder if he may be slightly autistic. He is very clever and this makes him suffer fools badly.

A week ago his mother asked him to help her with her mobile phone so I put on my virtual tin hat and kept my head down. Amazingly, he didn't get cross at all and we were able to turn her incompetence with modern gadgetry into a source of humour, with everybody, including her, having a laugh at her expense. Four days later I was relating this story to my daughter (the aforementioned Life Coach) and, for a moment, she went very quiet. She then explained that she had used something like ESP over recent weeks to try to release him from his anger. Coincidence? Maybe, but I suspect not.

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2018, 11:45
Pulse, you could consider that as active ESP. Now we have two friends, one is in very poor health. We are in touch infrequently but often we think we should contact them but perhaps don't. Within an hour, sometimes minutes, his wife emails us. There is nothing dramatic, just a keeping in touch.

double_barrel
15th Oct 2018, 13:08
The human brain is designed to make linkages and associations. That is how religion and witch doctors emerged - last time I applied a poultice made from tree bark chewed by a cross-eyed pregnant woman wearing a blue hat, the wound healed. So let's keep doing exactly that.

There are an almost unlimited number of thoughts, events, interactions happening around us all the time. Of course by chance some appear to be linked, and we seize on these while the rest go by unnoticed. I have a handful of amazing coincidences to match those suggested here, but I don't see the need to invoke an 'extra sensory' perception to explain them.

Uplinker
15th Oct 2018, 13:25
It scares me that some people here actually believe in ESP and might even be pilots that fly me around the world.......I (https://youtu.be/2MFAvH8m8aI)


Why? If ESP exists, then it is merely a transmission system we don’t yet know about. Nothing to be scared of, and if intelligent professionals keep an open mind about such things then why would that make them less “safe” pilots?

Re: dogs and pets, Their hearing and sense of smell is better than ours. The lap-top the dog ran away from probably started up a switched mode power supply when the lid was opened, (to energise the screen). These can emit sound at frequencies above human range, but a dog can probably hear it.

double_barrel
15th Oct 2018, 13:58
Why?


Probably because it represents a failure to think critically and analytically. Invoking magic (or an unknown processes) may be legitimate when other known possibilities have been properly considered. Disregarding logic and inventing your own phenomena to explain something that is easily explicable by known processes is not having an open mind.

Stan Woolley
15th Oct 2018, 15:17
Probably because it represents a failure to think critically and analytically. Invoking magic (or an unknown processes) may be legitimate when other known possibilities have been properly considered. Disregarding logic and inventing your own phenomena to explain something that is easily explicable by known processes is not having an open mind.

With respect, I strongly disagree. Intelligent, thoughtful people like Dean Radin and many others have ‘proved’ to his and others satisfaction that ‘magic’ is a real phenomenon, no matter what you and many others may believe.

I have come to this worldview after having spent the last seven plus years researching and thinking about such things, as I could no longer work. (I was a pilot, and sim examiner). Can such a worldview be reached by taking a more casual approach? It may be possible, but I wouldn’t recommend it if one is serious about looking into such topics.

Here Radin talks about it. Ignore the interviewers excitement at the beginning, he is a fan, but he allows his guest get his views across uninterrupted.
https://youtu.be/gZMBAIQILwI

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2018, 15:22
. Disregarding logic and inventing your own phenomena to explain something that is easily explicable by known processes is not having an open mind.
That the tour agent rang out mobile as we passed at the closest point, about 100 yards away, was indeed almost certainly a coincidence, or was it?

That is the question. The event is not cited as evidence of ESP nor the fact that a son rang his mother at exactly the moment that she started to talk about him. Ask far as we know they were both coincidences. May suggestion is that ESP may exist at a level that we are yet able to prove existence or means. What we do know is that we can monitor brainwaves and to some extent we understand the brain but there may be many things that we are as yet unable to determine.

BehindBlueEyes
15th Oct 2018, 16:37
Surely ESP, if it does exist, could only improve cockpit synergy? Who knows, maybe it does occasionally happen? We’ll never know exactly how many disasters may have been averted because one of the flight crew had an instinct that their colleague was about to make an error of judgment but was able to take evasive or intercepting action.

VP959
15th Oct 2018, 16:51
Surely ESP, if it does exist, could only improve cockpit synergy? Who knows, maybe it does occasionally happen? We’ll never know exactly how many disasters may have been averted because one of the flight crew had an instinct that their colleague was about to make an error of judgment but was able to take evasive or intercepting action.



Interesting thought. How many of us have worked with the same person for long enough that either of you could predict what the other was going to do, with a fair degree of reliability?

SpringHeeledJack
15th Oct 2018, 17:16
We’ll never know exactly how many disasters may have been averted because one of the flight crew had an instinct that their colleague was about to make an error of judgment but was able to take evasive or intercepting action

That didn't work out too well for the flight crew of KAL007..... :-(

double_barrel
15th Oct 2018, 17:58
Surely ESP, if it does exist, could only improve cockpit synergy? Who knows, maybe it does occasionally happen? We’ll never know exactly how many disasters may have been averted because one of the flight crew had an instinct that their colleague was about to make an error of judgment but was able to take evasive or intercepting action.
My dog has an uncanny ability to understand what I am planning and thinking. I sometimes kick him out of the house into the garden when I go out and sometimes I don't. It depends on why and when I am going out. He is 100% accurate at determining if I will want him in or out, well before I have even thought about it myself. I turn round to check on him before going out of the door and he has always perfectly anticipated where I want him. There may be some confirmation bias there -ie I unconsciously agree with his decision! But I am sure that what he is mostly doing is picking-up on all the little clues that betray my plans. What do I wear, which keys do I pick-up, am I bounding around eagerly or dragging my metaphorical feet....and so on...

Those apparently invisible and undetectable little 'tells' can be assembled into an amazing pattern detection system. I don't think my dog can read my mind, but I do think he is incredibly tuned-in to my behaviour so that he can predict what will follow from particular patterns.......

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2018, 21:28
DB, I watched The Bill. When The Bill finished we would go and pick up my wife from work. As the signature tune ended the programme the dog got ready for the walk. Occasionally she miscounted and was ready at the penultimate advert.
She also worked out I was deaf (ignoring her) so she would nudge me. When she went deaf too she was adept at sign language.
But dog awareness of when you come home is something else; not talking a minute or two but when you have to be at least a quarter mile away.

Innominate
15th Oct 2018, 22:01
As the signature tune ended the programme the dog got ready for the walk. That's not so much ESP as the dog associating the music with the walk - Pavlov's experiment.

My parents had a dog. Every Saturday they would go into town shopping and return by taxi at approximately the same time. The dog would go and wait by the gate shortly before they arrived. The dog had presumably noticed them leave (thinks: it must be Saturday) but how did it get the timing right? Or did we just think he was clever and in fact he spent longer at the gate than we gave him credit for?

Pontius Navigator
15th Oct 2018, 22:20
Never suggested it was ESP, but that dogs are smart.

Hydromet
16th Oct 2018, 02:40
Re: dogs and pets, Their hearing and sense of smell is better than ours. The lap-top the dog ran away from probably started up a switched mode power supply when the lid was opened, (to energise the screen). These can emit sound at frequencies above human range, but a dog can probably hear it.

My workshop supervisor illustrates this perfectly. I have a number of noisy machines in the workshop, and he is quite happy to be near any of them when they are running, except for a large vacuum cleaner. (I have several vacuum cleaners & dust collectors, and all produce what sounds to me like white noise.) When I switch it on, he moves outside. Obviously not scared of it, as he doesn't run away, and is quite happy to lie next to it when it's switched off. Also, if my wife or I are out he can hear and identify our car about 100m away. All other cars are ignored.

Dogs are incredible at picking up on visual clues and body language; after all, it's a major part of how they communicate with each other. Our current dog and the last one knew what was happening simply by what clothes or shoes I put on. Walking boots mean a bushwalk (good), sneakers mean a walk and working around home (also good) and good shoes mean I'm going out and he's probably not included (the world is about to end).

Blacksheep
16th Oct 2018, 13:27
I once picked up the phone to call my sister. There was no dialling tone, just her voice saying "Hi Frank!" She had called me and the phone connected exactly as I picked up my own phone.

Pontius Navigator
16th Oct 2018, 13:35
I once picked up the phone to call my sister. There was no dialling tone, just her voice saying "Hi Frank!" She had called me and the phone connected exactly as I picked up my own phone.
And can lead to some very interesting conversations. A calls B and C answers.

Icare9
16th Oct 2018, 13:39
Just heard from my cyber friend - Not the Big C, but a treatable inflammation of the bladder, Great relief all round.

avoman
16th Oct 2018, 14:23
Each of the previous posters has related an anecdote of extraordinary improbability. I have my own story too of bumping into an acquaintance in a far distant town that both of us have visited only once in our lives. That was quite a shock.
But each poster has only one episode equivalent to this. Meeting just one acquaintance out of many and in the course of a whole life. So it is just coincidence. Nothing more.
What intrigues me is the number of near misses! How many times have I wandered into a shop in a far away town as an acquaintance came out, not at the same time but ten seconds earlier? There must be many.
I exclude airports. I have had some sudden meetings there but airports are great concentrators of people.

Captivep
16th Oct 2018, 15:21
Just because something is highly improbable doesn't mean it won't happen - that's all that coincidences are. Take the lottery - every set of numbers has the same probability to be selected.

As someone up thread noted, the human brain is set up to try and make sense of the chaos we live in, to make patterns and linkages. That's why people seize on things that are purely coincidental as something more.

Stan Woolley
16th Oct 2018, 18:19
Just because something is highly improbable doesn't mean it won't happen - that's all that coincidences are. Take the lottery - every set of numbers has the same probability to be selected.

As someone up thread noted, the human brain is set up to try and make sense of the chaos we live in, to make patterns and linkages. That's why people seize on things that are purely coincidental as something more.

The majority of incidents we think of as coincidences probably are just that. However, I don’t think anyone posting on the thread has mentioned unusually strong emotions, emotions that people feel are extremely unusual, such as my friend experienced here:

“One other such anecdote was recently told to me by a pilot colleague and close friend who had been going to and from hospital spending the last days of his mothers life with her. She had been very poorly but this day it seemed she had improved and was far better than she had been, so my friend thought that he'd be okay to drive home for lunch. When he was some distance away from the hospital he received an urgent call to return as his Mum had taken a serious turn for the worse. As he said to me, he turned the car around and was driving "like a maniac" back towards the hospital. Suddenly an overwhelming feeling of calmness came over him, a feeling of care and love, 'telling' him to slow down, that everything was alright. He knew that his mother's presence was with him and that she had passed. He simply knew. Just try telling him otherwise!”

VP959
16th Oct 2018, 19:12
Just because something is highly improbable doesn't mean it won't happen - that's all that coincidences are. Take the lottery - every set of numbers has the same probability to be selected.

As someone up thread noted, the human brain is set up to try and make sense of the chaos we live in, to make patterns and linkages. That's why people seize on things that are purely coincidental as something more.

Years ago someone (can't remember his name) published a semi-humorous paper in "The Journal of Naval Science", titled something like "Fancy meeting you here!". The paper went on to analyse the probability of meeting someone you know in a remote location, and concluded that the probability of doing so was a lot greater than most people might think. I may still have a copy of the journal packed away somewhere. If I can find it I'll have another read of it and see what the writer's conclusion was, in terms of the probability of coincidences like this happening.

G-CPTN
16th Oct 2018, 21:55
Years ago someone (can't remember his name) published a semi-humorous paper in "The Journal of Naval Science", titled something like "Fancy meeting you here!". The paper went on to analyse the probability of meeting someone you know in a remote location, and concluded that the probability of doing so was a lot greater than most people might think.
Just consider the times that you don't meet someone that you know.

Innominate
16th Oct 2018, 22:00
Stan - two stories that might fit your "Emotional" category.

I had a friend at university, with whom I had a lot in common - "coincidences" but probably better explained by probability. We kept in occasional touch after we left and maybe five years later I dreamt that she was pregnant. Within a few weeks she rang and told me that they were expecting their first child.

Shortly after my father died, I was rehearsing for an amateur musical. Sitting in a corner of the stage, head down trying to learn lines, I had a sudden feeling that my father was sitting in the front row (shiver down my spine as I type this) but - of course - when I looked up, he wasn't there.

Pontius Navigator
16th Oct 2018, 22:36
To bump in to someone you know is coincidence. To bump into someone you wanted to meet in the wrong place is also coincidence but at even greater odds. To anticipate or have a premonition that you will meet them is ESP.

double_barrel
17th Oct 2018, 04:05
To anticipate or have a premonition that you will meet them is ESP.

How often does someone cross your mind? And then how many times do you subsequently not meet them in the following minute, hour, day, week?
Again, it's the power of pattern recognition and post-hoc confirmation bias.


But dog awareness of when you come home is something else; not talking a minute or two but when you have to be at least a quarter mile away.
How do you know how the dog behaves when you are not there?
Is it because someone in the house (who knows you are on the way) observes their behaviour? And tells you about it later ?

I rest my case.

When my other half has been away for more than a few days, the dog has an uncanny ability to detect that she is on the way home. He will sit by the door with an unfeasibly cute quizical expression and just stare through the door for up to an hour before she arrives. No need to invoke ESP to explain that. I would like to see the experiment with no-one in the house and a camera recording the dog's behaviour.

Krystal n chips
17th Oct 2018, 04:56
I've long since believed in ESP or whatever term people prefer to use when the subject is mentioned. Likewise the senses of animals in comparison to those of humans.

That said, I can say my own, whilst relevant in childhood, became enhance by being able to instinctively identify life's naturals, before they spoke or went in to print, in the RAF. This instinct still prevails today.

Of course, for the mathematically minded, it would be an interesting exercise in probability testing to quantify why some humans experience more coincidences than others....

Stan Woolley
17th Oct 2018, 07:32
How often does someone cross your mind? And then how many times do you subsequently not meet them in the following minute, hour, day, week?
Again, it's the power of pattern recognition and post-hoc confirmation bias.
How do you know how the dog behaves when you are not there?
Is it because someone in the house (who knows you are on the way) observes their behaviour? And tells you about it later ?
I rest my case.

When my other half has been away for more than a few days, the dog has an uncanny ability to detect that she is on the way home. He will sit by the door with an unfeasibly cute quizical expression and just stare through the door for up to an hour before she arrives. No need to invoke ESP to explain that. I would like to see the experiment with no-one in the house and a camera recording the dog's behaviour.

Rupert Sheldrake did experiments on a dog called Jaytee, you can probably find more on the net.
https://www.sheldrake.org/videos/jaytee-a-dog-who-knew-when-his-owner-was-coming-home-the-orf-experiment

Pontius Navigator
17th Oct 2018, 08:44
D-B, while you have a point about a dog picking up cues - Mrs X starts to anticipate M r X returning and dog senses this. But there have been instances where there was no expectation of Mr X returning but the dog had exhibited different behaviour, OK human interpretation and self-fulfilling.

Yes, if I think of many people and think I might meet, and I do, would I think ESP? Or as we did the other day, we 'bumped into'. - I did not think ESP. However having then arranged to meet some two weeks in hence it would not have been unusual for one of us to ring the other. That I rang as he thought of ringing is a coincidence or was it ESP? That is the question.

Icare9
17th Oct 2018, 17:17
Those with ESP will know what my message was about :rolleyes:

Pontius Navigator
17th Oct 2018, 19:40
Those with ESP will know what my message was about :rolleyes:
Not at all. My contention, if ESP exists, is a broadband communication thread with millions of terminal nodes but node connection is both specific and not directed. You need to know the other person be it family, friend, or even casual acquaintance. There needs to a a reason for that connection.

In your case there is no need or connection.

SpringHeeledJack
17th Oct 2018, 20:33
I knew that!

PickyPerkins
17th Oct 2018, 23:11
Apologies if this is a thread drift; its not about ESP but may be kinda relevant.

Being a family man for decades, I drove nothing but 3rd-hand clunker cars and camper-vans.

In my old age the day came when my son bought a snazzy sports car and graciously allowed my to try driving it.

The extraordinary thing that I found out at once, and about which I had to be very careful, was that I had only to think about turning and the car would start to turn. I would think about turning at the next intersection and the car would start to turn before getting there.

I think what was happening was that in the decades of driving clunkers, when thinking about a turn I would turn the wheel enough to take up the play in the sloppy steering train, this having no effect in steering. In a sensitive sports car this unconscious action started a turn.

A dog (or other smart observer) may see lots of unconscious movements associated with what we think of as merely private thoughts. There's a whole science of “micro facial expressions”, often lasting less than a second, which the body-language experts and professional interrogators study which give away private thoughts. Smart dogs are experts.

I would not be surprised to hear that private secretaries to CEOs and the like are as expert at this skill as the smartest dogs.

G-CPTN
17th Oct 2018, 23:30
when thinking about a turn I would turn the wheel enough to take up the play in the sloppy steering train, this having no effect in steering. In a sensitive sports car this unconscious action started a turn.

My father's car was a large saloon with a 'steering box'.
My car was a 'compact' with rack-and-pinion steering.
When my father tried to drive my car he darted across the roadway as he turned the steering wheel.

Pontius Navigator
18th Oct 2018, 08:35
I would not be surprised to hear that private secretaries to CEOs and the like are as expert at this skill as the smartest dogs.

You mean like when I sit back and stretched she appeared with a pot of coffee?☺

BR36
19th Oct 2018, 08:23
I can be going about my business when I see someone from a distance who I think I know but as I get closer, realise it’s not them (it can often be someone I haven’t seen for years). When this happens, almost without exception, I will see the person I thought it was a short time later.

Pontius Navigator
19th Oct 2018, 08:57
I can be going about my business when I see someone from a distance who I think I know but as I get closer, realise it’s not them (it can often be someone I haven’t seen for years). When this happens, almost without exception, I will see the person I thought it was a short time later.
My first thought was coincidence, then realised ESP, you unconsciously expected to meet them, then you did.

SpringHeeledJack
19th Oct 2018, 17:07
I've had the experience a few times over the years where during a dream I'll see someone I knew in the past, even thinking within the dream state "what am I dreaming of them for ?" and then the next day, or week, bumping into said person in the most spurious of situations. One occasion I was on the top deck of a bus and as we drove over a crossroads, there was the dreamt of person sitting at the front of the upper deck of a bus held at the red light. That person was resident in another country and we hadn't met for a few years....

Haraka
19th Oct 2018, 18:01
You only have to have had one experience of precognition to be convinced. In my case it was a bit like "Deja vu" but in advance. Albeit trivial I was able to relate to a friend in the early morning, a very unusual and atypical set of remarks that would happen later that day.
I just looked at him post the exchange.

treadigraph
20th Oct 2018, 01:00
Funnily enough I was expecting to bump into a friend today who I haven't seen in ages, unexpectedly for her as I was on a bus she usually catches each morning but I'd never normally be anywhere near. Predictably she wasn't on it! I later bumped into another friend I wasn't expecting to see at all which was lovely; she and I meet every week for a beer and a natter, in fact less than 24 hours earlier... but it was still nice to chat for a few minutes...

double_barrel
20th Oct 2018, 08:57
Last night I had a premonition that I was going to have sex with Halle Berry as she looked in 2004. If that happens this year I will let you guys know and publicly admit I was wrong about premonitions.

Pontius Navigator
20th Oct 2018, 09:22
Last night I had a premonition that I was going to have sex with Halle Berry as she looked in 2004. If that happens this year I will let you guys know and publicly admit I was wrong about premonitions.
My temporary PA definitely had ESP. She was always crossing her bare legs (winter and summer) and pulling her micro mini skirt down.
​​​​

Pontius Navigator
28th Oct 2018, 17:41
Now here is a coincidence for you:

My daughter and I both read the same author. I had forgotten but remembered I had not read any of her books for a couple of years and had a look. I found a couple of titles I didn't think I had read. I thought to tell my daughter.

A couple of weeks later I ordered the books and emailed my daughter to tell her.

She responded Spooky as she had just been thinking to check and see if the author had written any new ones.

Coincidence or something else?

Effluent Man
28th Oct 2018, 21:36
I had a spell of thinking I recognised someone only to find that it was not them but actually meeting that person shortly afterwards. This happened nearly forty years ago when I was ill with an undiagnosed condition that gave neurological symptoms. On one occasion the person I thought I saw was somebody I had not met since college years earlier and then I met them within minutes.

i am generally sceptical about such things but one experience was uncanny, I employed a chap as an occasional driver, he was much older than me, a Normandy veteran. We got along extremely well and became quite good friends. One day at work I had some extremely bad chest pains. Were it not for the fact that I was only 35 ish I would have suspected I was having a heart attack. A couple of hours later this chaps wife phoned and said that he had a heart attack and had died. I found out that this had happened more or less at the time I suffered the chest pain. Coincidence? It could have been I suppose.