CX Roadshow UK... anyone interested...

[jetjockey696]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1000/cx_recruitment_fde4b86ac2753179b5ec7cee11f9593631066b3f.jpeg

[Dragon Pacific]

A bit optimistic going to LGW to do a roadshow. Surely they should be trying in MNL with POS 2018.

[mngmt mole]

“Flight Crew Futures”...? Can easily answer that: miserable, hopeless and poverty stricken. Anything else you need to know?

[Liam Gallagher]

"Flight crew futures". Are they anything like "Oil futures"? I don't recall them working out particularly well either.

[jetjockey696]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/qatar_9f9580bd36da9682957769ad8707c76a4a7ef569.jpeg

Looks like Gatwick is the new game safari... Happy hunting.

[Gnadenburg]

The crew hotel at Sama Sama in KL may be better pickings? Though chatting to the Malindo/ Lion Air pilots their preference is HKA due the colonial check and training system at CX / KA.

Have they thought of that? Low cost pilots means low cost standards ! If you have to budget getting to work you don't want to be bothered with extra curricular professionalism.

[sjimmy]

Probably hunting for Brexit refugees.

[unitedabx]

"Flight crew futures". Are they anything like "Oil futures"? I don't recall them working out particularly well either.

"Flight Crew Futures" what they mean is careers but like "Life well Travelled" it is pigeon English at it's very worst.
There is no career in CX and the world knows it. I notice Qatar inviting captains and first officers to join them. The best Cx can offer is second officer for 5-6 years on average pay in the most expensive city on the planet.
I suspect they will hope to pick up those pilots who don't get accepted by Qatar, BA, Emirates, Easyjet and Jet2 who are all running roadshows that week in the Gatwick area. Note no rosdshows at Heathrow because no one at VS or BA would think of jumping ship to Cx from there. Next Cx roadshow Delhi and Mumbai.

[unitedabx]

Probably hunting for Brexit refugees.

Just heard that one of the recruiting team ( an Airbus pilot on maternity leave ) will be the pilot rep at the roadshow in Gatwick. She is leaving to join Qantas in February 19 and handed in her resignation tw days ago.
You couldn't make this up.

[Dan Winterland]

Never thought I'd see the day that CX stoops to Road Show Recruiting.

One bit of advice I received from an old sage many years ago was never to join a company which had recruitment seminars. Good companies don't need to go out trawling for recruits. The good recruits contact them.

[Foxdeux]

"Flight Crew Futures" what they mean is careers but like "Life well Travelled" it is pigeon English at it's very worst.
There is no career in CX and the world knows it. I notice Qatar inviting captains and first officers to join them. The best Cx can offer is second officer for 5-6 years on average pay in the most expensive city on the planet.
I suspect they will hope to pick up those pilots who don't get accepted by Qatar, BA, Emirates, Easyjet and Jet2 who are all running roadshows that week in the Gatwick area. Note no rosdshows at Heathrow because no one at VS or BA would think of jumping ship to Cx from there. Next Cx roadshow Delhi and Mumbai.

If that's true then CX pilots will soon be publicly defecating on the streets. Mark my words.

[AQIS Boigu]

Our members of the recruitment team have turned into a bunch of ambulance chasers.

[Air Profit]

Just heard that one of the recruiting team ( an Airbus pilot on maternity leave ) will be the pilot rep at the roadshow in Gatwick. She is leaving to join Qantas in February 19 and handed in her resignation tw days ago.
You couldn't make this up.

Candidate: "excuse me ms, why would I be better off taking a job with CX"...?
Recruiter: " f'd if I know, i'm leaving for Qantas next month"....!!

That about sums up CX, and the value of it's "roadshow". You couldn't make this up if you tried.

[unitedabx]

Candidate: "excuse me ms, why would I be better off taking a job with CX"...?
Recruiter: " f'd if I know, i'm leaving for Qantas next month"....!!

That about sums up CX, and the value of it's "roadshow". You couldn't make this up if you tried.

That's exactly it.
The Qatar recruiting team is led by their 787 Chief Pilot and some HR people. The Cx Team is led by a maternity leave Airbus F/O who doesn't want to do this but was told she had to as a ground duty and who has already resigned to go to Qantas. I am aslo informed Qatar will offer a signing on bonus for type rated pilots. CX can't match that. Jet2 will offer "the UK base of your choice" as an incentive. CX can't offer that. BA will offer LGW commands within 2 years. CX can't match that either.

[enoughisenough_]

That's exactly it.
The Qatar recruiting team is led by their 787 Chief Pilot and some HR people. The Cx Team is led by a maternity leave Airbus F/O who doesn't want to do this but was told she had to as a ground duty and who has already resigned to go to Qantas. I am aslo informed Qatar will offer a signing on bonus for type rated pilots. CX can't match that. Jet2 will offer "the UK base of your choice" as an incentive. CX can't offer that. BA will offer LGW commands within 2 years. CX can't match that either.

But CX can offer COS18 which is "designed to attract top talent" :ugh:

[unitedabx]

But CX can offer COS18 which is "designed to attract top talent" :ugh:

Yep CX is marginally better then a clerk position at HSBC or counter employee at McDonalds. No wait. You don't have to pay for your training at McDonalds or HSBC so I guess they are better options.

[unitedabx]

It will be very interesting to see what response CX gets in LGW. Of course we will never be told the truth but I suspect the empty appointment slots and empty chairs will sound alarm bells back in CX City. Of course the solution will be more cuts. It is the Swire solution to everything. But it doesn't work that way anymore.

[Oasis]

If cx management can't anticipate the needs and wants of prospective and current employees, what chance does it have anticipating the same for our customers?

[mngmt mole]

If cx management can't anticipate the needs and wants of prospective and current employees, what chance does it have anticipating the same for our customers?

well that explains the past 10 years or so doesn’t it ?

[mngmt mole]

But CX can offer COS18 which is "designed to attract top talent" :ugh:

...”top talent”....haha, you are KILLING me 😂😂😂

[nike]

Yep CX is marginally better then a clerk position at HSBC or counter employee at McDonalds

You get 13th month at McDonald's...

[unitedabx]

You get 13th month at McDonald's...

And free burgers !

[RHINO]

Is DEC on offer?

[unitedabx]

Is DEC on offer?

yes under COS18

Qatar sign up bonus for type rated pilots 100K Qatari Riyal ( approx GBP20K ) Not bad.

[Meikleour]

Is DEC on offer?

RHINO: ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!

[Starbear]

That's exactly it.
The Cx Team is led by a maternity leave Airbus F/O who doesn't want to do this but was told she had to as a ground duty .
seriously? They can make her fly (even as a pax) whilst on maternity leave? As bad as CX are I simply don’t believe this one.

[Tricia Takanawa]

Qatar sign up bonus for type rated pilots 100K Qatari Riyal ( approx GBP20K ) Not bad.

Where did you see this? I can'd find it mentioned anywhere. If so, that could get tempting...

[illtellyouhowitis]

Can you commute with Qatar????

[1200firm]

Can you commute with Qatar????
Yes no problem commuting to Bahrain.

[Frogman1484]

seriously? They can make her fly (even as a pax) whilst on maternity leave? As bad as CX are I simply don’t believe this one.



You can fly upto 35 weeks, just cannot fly a full roster

[morningcoffee]

You can fly upto 35 weeks, just cannot fly a full roster
love how BA QF Lufthansa etc all have crew flying while pregnant and they’re golden. CX do it and they’re slave drivers.

[morningcoffee]

Can you commute with Qatar????
Eveyone should go to Qatar, don’t look at the roster or contract, just leap in and organise your roster for commuting after you’ve settled in Doha.

[Tea time]

I will be in UK during the roadshow , maybe I should pretend to be a candidate and go for the interview . I could ask a number of seriously good questions .

The reason that pregnant women are taken off flying duties it due to the increased radiation exposure which can harm the rapidly developing foetus . Personally I would never allow my wife near an aeroplane if she was pregnant

[Flex88]

Read the attachment from the WSJ and ask yourself again, why would I pack up and come to the worlds most expensive city.. You decide.

CX is cutting benefits and salary........

#CXit

[unitedabx]

Last weeks turnout at The Hilton Gatwick was 14 attendees.
Qatar had over 300. Says it all.

[Flagler]

I was there, there were definitely more than 14 in attendance at LGW. I would estimate around 40, and that was only 10 minutes after opening time. I stayed for an hour and people were arriving and leaving all of the time. I understand your current contract issues but for pilots looking for a job what other options do we really have ?

[mr did]

I understand your current contract issues but for pilots looking for a job what other options do we really have ?

So in summary: the only people looking are unable to find anything else?

[Flagler]

I don’t know if they can’t find anything else, but I can’t at the moment and I want a job, and I’m not just starting out on my career. There were other airlines there from the Middle East and some European operators too. I thought the day was well organised and that the airline staff were very professional. Good mix of ab initio, experienced FO and Captains in attendance.

[CyberT]

I was there, there were definitely more than 14 in attendance at LGW. I would estimate around 40, and that was only 10 minutes after opening time. I stayed for an hour and people were arriving and leaving all of the time. I understand your current contract issues but for pilots looking for a job what other options do we really have ?


Flagler If you have no other options, are desperate, flat out of ideas, Cathay are perfect for you.

[unitedabx]

Flagler If you have no other options, are desperate, flat out of ideas, Cathay are perfect for you.

Bottom of the barrel but if that's where you are ?

[BusyB]

If you believe them I've got millions in Nigeria I can give you a good price for!!!!

[bringbackthe80s]

You can always stay in sunny europe fly 4 legs a day 5 days a week for the next 30 years, with the odd call from stby and 17 hrs duty in the middle of the night. Non existent staff tickets, roster changes weekly or even daily, flying with 21 years old mpls...all of this for half the salary.
You guys are right, no need to attend

[sjimmy]

You can always stay in sunny europe fly 4 legs a day 5 days a week for the next 30 years, with the odd call from stby and 17 hrs duty in the middle of the night. Non existent staff tickets, roster changes weekly or even daily, flying with 21 years old mpls...all of this for half the salary.
You guys are right, no need to attend

Are you talking about CX or a euro operator? Just confused. Because the above describes CX perfect......

@CX
-4 legs on regional flying on integrated pattern
-Standby? Daily many crew on reserve cannot leave HKG, or have social life.
callouts are numerous daily.
-17 hours through the night, that happens every night in CX, and when on freighter they will pax you wherever the want after the flight.
duty days of 30 hours have been done!!!
- Staff travel....hahahahah we have that in CX but it sucks, most unhelpful people in the company work for staff travel.
no upgrades and you will have to work up a sweat to reach the gate in time.
-Staff travel good thing, we can book other airlines who do value a fellow crewmember. Lufthansa is awseome
Cathay hates their own crew on staff travel plenty cases that airplane left with seats open but staff wasn’t helpful.
-Rosterchanges plenty plenty plenty, weekly,daily, hourly record is 26 in a day i believe. Operations usually clueless and never listen to the crew on scene. Usually any decision taken by operations screws over many crews.
CX got a new rosteringsystem but has it set at MAX F... U CREW, no bidding, bizarre patterns and not very productive rosters.
-MPLs, we have MPLs as well and are hard work because of marginal training, but they will get it in the end. Plenty of young kids with no experience.
Biggest worry is DEFO (bottom of barrel) who have no Clue and some cannot even speak proper english on the radios, training focuses on bull**** trivia and not at task at hand like properly flying through Dahka Myanmar airspace.
- Trainers, the ones joined during trainingban would NEVER have been trainers if there was no trainingban.
iow standards are dropping rapidly and some captains not giving certain background FOs sectors.
-Salary, looks good till you end up in HKG. Also COS18 in effect soon.

So in short.
If you are that ignorant
Feel free to join this Cathay Titanic, we hit the iceberg and are making water

[CyberT]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1982x566/screen_shot_2018_10_23_at_13_08_02_2_6a1f152e501f1ef85461856 aaf8b80481ae29c88.png
Hey Flagler,
Happy now?

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/2169680/cathay-pacifics-trainee-pilots-appeal-against-lower

[CyberT]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1306x782/screen_shot_2018_10_23_at_13_38_03_443290e1cb0bdcf845cfde269 25344c4d76b9d4e.png

[Flagler]

Yes Cyber T I am still happy to proceed with working for this airline . As I understand it and please correct me if I am wrong but those Adelaide trainee pilots are also happy with the new pay structure, or they would all have left the airline by now.

[CyberT]

Flagler,

You and Cathay are a perfect match, they'll love you. Come on over.

[CyberT]

dctPub
I suspect you are missing the point.
Flagler doesn't care about having his terms and conditions abused and he is only too willing to ask how "how high?" when mangerment say jump. Cathay will love him, and he'll have all his lowest expectations dashed within a few months of joining (COS19) He'll loveit!!

[Gnadenburg]

Flagler has four posts on pprune. He claims to be experienced. Despite CX ppruners saying don't come unless you have to and offering a kind of sympathy if you do, he's defending the COS 18 a little enthusiastically don't you think?

[Flagler]

It is up to the individual pilot should they decide to accept the terms and conditions on offer, even if revised. Personally I don’t know of any airline in the rest of the world that trains ab initio pilots. There was a few years ago mostly in Europe, and that ceased with the remaining trainees then told to work down the back as cabin crew until a flight deck job materialised. No I am not Management and yes I am looking for a job. I almost didn’t go to the LGW roadshow due to the postings here but I am glad I attended now.
There are far worse deals on offer out there believe me.

[rhoshamboe]

Flagler,
The decision to take the job is, as you say, up to the individual. I do however urge you to mark down this date in your diary and see exactly how long it takes for you to realise that most of what has been stated above re the ability to live in HK on COS18 is spot on. Not all of the posters above are altruistic in their motivation but that doesn't mean the message is not spot on. If you have a family but still insist on coming to HK be brave enough to admit a bad decision was made when you finally realise you should have listened. The price your family will pay is not worth hanging on out of pride. If you don't have a family then good luck to you.

Oh, and can you please let us know how long it takes?

[hyg]

seeing that new POS18 is like travelling back in time.........

I am a local and this current cos pays less than the one i was offered when I joined all those years ago, yet someone is saying it's great, whatever he's taking might not get him through the AOD testing:}

I am happy to have my salary cut to that level if the company can make cost of living in HK reduced to over a decade ago:ugh::ugh:

[Apple Tree Yard]

Flagler is either a company troll, or a complete raving moron. Either way, perfect fit for this place. Welcome :rolleyes:

[Staggers]

Flagler
Did you read the bit in the handbook about the company reserving the right to change the “conditions” at their discretion and upon informing the officer they are binding?

[SOPS]

I have a question..as an retired aviator who always wanted to fly for CX..and wanted to live in Hong Kong. ( But Im glad I dont now). I just googled some apartments in the Mid Levels. The rent is about $36000...but I cant work out if thats a year or a month. Assuming its a year..that is half of a SO salary on the new COS. Hoe the hell are does CX expect people to live. Or better still..are people doing their homework before going to Hong Kong. I love Hong Kong to visit...but to live there without housing....no way

And that USD I was talking

[Apple Tree Yard]

Monthly.... and that seems very reasonable. My rent is over $70K/mo. Goes will with the $50 cokes, $100 beers and a meal for $250. Yup, that SO salary will really take you far !!

[main_dog]

SOPS, the rents you are seeing are monthly (and yes, $36,000 monthly won’t get you much unless you’re out in the sticks).

For the avoidance of doubt, these are Hong Kong dollars, so that $36,000 a month is equal to about $4,600 USD per month. Add utilities, food (expensive), transport (quite reasonable), schools (eye-wateringly expensive) and you can see why anyone who is not originally from HKG, is over 30 and is thinking of having a family, is also thinking of getting out.

Year after year, HKG consistently rates as the most expensive (or second most expensive, some years) place to rent/buy on earth. By comparison, central London, New York, Zurich etc are all cheaper.

[Emma Royds]

One bit of advice I received from an old sage many years ago was never to join a company which had recruitment seminars. Good companies don't need to go out trawling for recruits. The good recruits contact them.

Anyone remember this? ;)

BA Recruitment Seminar HK (https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/british-airways-pilot-recruitment-seminar-hong-kong-16th-april-tickets-23249269190#)

[Scoreboard]

It is up to the individual pilot should they decide to accept the terms and conditions on offer, even if revised. Personally I don’t know of any airline in the rest of the world that trains ab initio pilots. There was a few years ago mostly in Europe, and that ceased with the remaining trainees then told to work down the back as cabin crew until a flight deck job materialised. No I am not Management and yes I am looking for a job. I almost didn’t go to the LGW roadshow due to the postings here but I am glad I attended now.
There are far worse deals on offer out there believe me.
ROFLMAO......yeah your life is about really hit rock bottom.....going to so wish to see what you will be saying ina years time scrapping by.....hehe wait till he see his first 400 square foot living space in HKG. Most hotel suites we stay in are bigger..

[crimito]

But is it CX so bad compared to low cost European airlines?

[mngmt mole]

The fact that you could even make that comparison today just shows you how far CX has fallen.

[lessonlearnt]

Crimito - its worse because you will be stuffed into a 400sq ft apartment, living pay cheque to pay cheque, getting absolutely no experience or job satisfaction at all. All you will hear is how the captains have made so much money and continue to live in houses they own and you are struggling to pay rent. '
Then wait until you have kids ha ha ha on the Sh1t COS18 contract you are honestly in trouble.

But good luck to you. Advice is not to burn any bridge at your previous employer.

[LLLQNH]

Guys a lot of truths being spoken here! Please do your research about Hong Kong and the cost of living and typical spends on things before you actually look at coming for this job! On paper you might see figures and think wow ok not as good as it was but the money is ok, it simply isn’t with the cost of living in Hong Kong! If you don’t believe what people are saying then fine, go do your own research! Here is some info to help:

PROPERTY go onto Spacious Hong Kong or Go Home HK and start looking for apartments see what you can afford to live in, most pilots live in DB, MID levels, Kennedy Town, Sai Kung or even on South Lantau! Remember with property you need to be aware of Net v Gross sq foot and you need to pay two months rent security deposit upfront in addition to half a months rent commission to the real estate agent who finds you or represents you for the apartment!

FOOD, pretend to do an online shop for you and your family see what the bill comes to, take note of the smaller sizes of things here in Hong Kong like a pack of Kellogg’s cereal and the price of it compared to everywhere else! Welcome, Park & Shop or a service such as honest bee all deliver and will give a great idea of what you spend on a weekly shop! If you really want to scare your self look at the more high quality food vendors such as Jason’s, City Super or M&S.

TAX, go onto the Hong Kong IRD and look at how much tax you will be paying do your research, did you know in your first year you have to pay two years of tax? Might not sound like much but it is quite hefty especially for a new joining Second Officer or Junior FO, along with the cost of your move to Asia and the significant sum of cash required for your rental property the significant costs you have to pay in your first year in Hong Kong are rising!

EDUCATION, have a look at the ESF website they openly advertise their fees on the website including the non refundable debenture to get a kid in, remember these fees are monthly and in HKD! If you want to look at something a little better because you don’t like the sound of a government school then look at DBIS for a slightly more modest and achievable school, if you really want a fancy school have a little look at the Harrow school where the fees make even CEOs and Billionaires wince.

ENTERTAINMENT, your hard earned days off what are you gonna do? Fancy getting out of your 500 Sq foot Hong Kong 2 bedroom apartment (Ha) people who live here will understand the irony! Going out for a meal with your mates or a Beer, look at websites of places in Central, Soho, DB, TST see the price lists on their menus a night or meal out quickly becomes very expensive! Cinema, have a look and see what the latest blockbuster ticket price is!

Club or Gym membership, go look into those cricket club, Football club, FCC all explain their fees on the website it’s eyewatering!

HEALTHCARE, unfortunately so many things aren’t included in our Health package anymore and we don’t have real insurance Cathay self insure and will only pay for certain things from doctors they choose! Have a look on the website of some local doctors to see how much they will charge your for routine things such as a flu shot, vaccinations required for some of the destinations you will operate too, a medical check up for you and your family! OT&P is one that comes to mind go on their website or send them an email and ask them!

All of these essential items are things that you should very easily be able to afford and more importantly you deserve to be able to afford, you are a profesional aviator at arguably the top of your profession (used to be maybe not anymore) the fact that a legacy premium airline is attempting to make it so their own professionals can not afford access to such essentials is disheartening!

[crimito]

Crimito - its worse because you will be stuffed into a 400sq ft apartment, living pay cheque to pay cheque, getting absolutely no experience or job satisfaction at all. All you will hear is how the captains have made so much money and continue to live in houses they own and you are struggling to pay rent. '
Then wait until you have kids ha ha ha on the Sh1t COS18 contract you are honestly in trouble.

But good luck to you. Advice is not to burn any bridge at your previous employer.

Thank you lessonlearnt.
I am currently waiting to start my type rating with easyJet - which has a good reputation as an employer - and I was just wondering if CX is that bad compared to our situation in Europe. You've already answered to my question. :)

[mngmt mole]

CX can't even get the basics right. At a time when resignations are ramping up, and there is a world-wide pilot shortage (with our competitors happily snatching up any CX pilot who applies), Cathay can't even provide the most basic of lifestyle choices to their pilots. Example: W patterns. They have worked perfectly well for years, and provide a bare basic ability for pilots who are awarded them to maintain a semblance of family unity via a commute to and from their home countries. The Airbus fleet now has a rapidly growing long-haul fleet and they could and should provide a selection of W patterns as well. We used to have basing's, temp basing's, base exchanges, 8 weeks leave and a whole host of vehicles that provided a small comfort to those who's families couldn't live in HK for one reason or another. Now, there is almost nothing.

In case management haven't noticed, many expat airlines are now offering guaranteed commuting contracts, with J class seat guarantees to and from your home domicile. If there aren't W's available, I know of many that will be leaving in the next 12 months. The Airbus fleet might want to wake up as well. Of course, this management is tone-deaf to how the industry really operates, and more importantly, they seem to have no consideration towards their employees and their concerns. This airline will fall of a cliff very soon, and this is the sort of reason why.