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jindabyne
10th Oct 2018, 19:07
What a load of boll***s, and a waste of taxpayers' money. And billed as BBC's breaking news story of the day!!

Toadstool
10th Oct 2018, 19:20
What a load of boll***s, and a waste of taxpayers' money. And billed as BBC's breaking news story of the day!!

There is a wider story here. Have you seen the amount of cases going through the courts whereby someone is taking another to court because they believe they have been discriminated against? In the recent past many of these cases have won the ruling against those who discriminated against the injured party. This may now stop what is deemed frivolous cases clogging up the court and wasting even more of the tax payers money. For once, the courts are taking a balanced viewpoint.

jindabyne
10th Oct 2018, 19:23
I hope that is so. :ok:

DaveReidUK
10th Oct 2018, 19:27
I hope that is so.

Ah, so you've changed your mind about it being a waste of taxpayers' money. Good for you.

jindabyne
10th Oct 2018, 19:29
Are you on red Reid?

Nervous SLF
10th Oct 2018, 19:29
When I was in business several times I disliked the views and indeed attitude of some customers.
However I was still happy to take their money with a smile and a thank you. I looked on it as small
victory as it meant I was taking money away from others who might have had the same views etc
as those customers.

DaveReidUK
10th Oct 2018, 19:52
This may now stop what is deemed frivolous cases clogging up the court and wasting even more of the tax payers money. For once, the courts are taking a balanced viewpoint.

I hope that is so.

Ah, so you've changed your mind about it being a waste of taxpayers' money. Good for you.

Are you on red Reid?

You've changed your mind back again?

ihoharv
10th Oct 2018, 21:32
There are no winners or losers so far in this case - whatever your predetermined biases are have been reinforced. It is a canary in the coalmine, however, for what might lay ahead. This one just happens to center on sexual identity/freedom/rights but expect follow-on suits very quickly around race, religion & politics.

Shack37
10th Oct 2018, 21:40
I have been following this story in a local NI newspaper (Belfast Telegraph) since it started some time ago. In my opinión, justice has at last been done. I believe that the customers concerned deliberately targeted this bakery, being a self declared Christian establishment, hoping for and expecting what happened. Fortunately they lost.
I hope that they will now be given the opportunity to assist the taxpayer with the costs involved.

Espada III
10th Oct 2018, 21:46
When I was in business several times I disliked the views and indeed attitude of some customers.
However I was still happy to take their money with a smile and a thank you. I looked on it as small
victory as it meant I was taking money away from others who might have had the same views etc
as those customers.

I like this approach but it only works in a less public environment than the bakery. A kosher bakery would not produce a cake with 'Support Hamas; Destroy Israel' on it. But I'll take money from Muslims to carry out professional work. It means less money potentially going to Hamas.

meadowrun
10th Oct 2018, 21:46
Too much of the world is using that #mememe thing.

DaveReidUK
10th Oct 2018, 21:51
This one just happens to center on sexual identity/freedom/rights but expect follow-on suits very quickly around race, religion & politics.

Specifically, it centres on the fact that Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights allow the entitlement not to be forced to declare an opinion which you do not hold. Whether that has opened any floodgates is debatable.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Oct 2018, 21:56
When I was in business several times I disliked the views and indeed attitude of some customers.
However I was still happy to take their money with a smile and a thank you. I looked on it as small
victory as it meant I was taking money away from others who might have had the same views etc
as those customers.
Yes ... hmmm ... well ... for "money" read "votes":

Knocked on a door once to be told "I'm a racist so I'm going to vote Liberal Democrat because they want to get rid of the <don't recall which expletive was used> immigrants".

So did I:

correct his misapprehension, and explain that if he wanted to vote for a racist candidate there were others more worthy of his vote than me (IIRC there was a Kipper standing that year), or:
smile politely and move on to the next doorstep

?

ihoharv
10th Oct 2018, 22:04
Specifically, it centres on the fact that Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights allow the entitlement not to be forced to declare an opinion which you do not hold. Whether that has opened any floodgates is debatable.

Absolutely, but where does it all end..? Respectfully, I would believe the floodgates have been opened.

If I were to walk into a Muslim bakery requesting a cake celebrating the anniversary of Israel would I file suit if/when I was walked to the door? Or a Jewish bakery to celebrate Kristallnacht. Because I'm a sentient person I would do no such thing but, again, where does it end.

Gertrude the Wombat
10th Oct 2018, 22:33
If I were to walk into a Muslim bakery requesting a cake celebrating the anniversary of Israel would I file suit if/when I was walked to the door? Or a Jewish bakery to celebrate Kristallnacht. Because I'm a sentient person I would do no such thing but, again, where does it end.
There's something not right about the reporting (BBC I think) that I've read.

Which was that the baker claimed, and the court agreed, that he would have refused to make that cake for any customer, regardless of sexuality, and therefore he was not discriminating against that particular customer on the grounds of his sexual orientation, end of.

OK, plausible enough on the face of it ... but if that were the full explanation the lower courts would have had no trouble reaching the same conclusion sufficiently firmly that it wouldn't have got anywhere near the supreme court. So I've decided I don't believe the reports I've read so far (the days are long past when the BBC would have automatically included a link to the judgement in a story like that so you could read it for yourself).

DaveReidUK
10th Oct 2018, 22:39
Absolutely, but where does it all end..? Respectfully, I would believe the floodgates have been opened.

If I were to walk into a Muslim bakery requesting a cake celebrating the anniversary of Israel would I file suit if/when I was walked to the door? Or a Jewish bakery to celebrate Kristallnacht. Because I'm a sentient person I would do no such thing but, again, where does it end.

Well the good news is that, now that the Supreme Court has ruled, your case will be thrown out before it gets that far, so you will only be a few thousand out of pocket.

Tankertrashnav
10th Oct 2018, 23:00
Lot of concentration on the Christian side of things which puzzles me. Surely there are many non Christians who are opposed to gay marriage, in the same way that many non Catholics are opposed to abortion, but that always seems to be presented as a Catholic thing?

As it happens I'm a heterosexual non Christian who supports gay marriage, but I'm very pleased with the supreme court decision

Hussar 54
10th Oct 2018, 23:06
It seems Virgin have a different take on whether the 'pink pound' is worth chasing.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/virgin-launches-first-fully-lgbt-staffed-flight-in-the-world/ar-BBOcPph?li=BBr5HCU

Just me, perhaps but why the need for during the flight, which promises to feature onboard entertainment including an onboard DJ, drag queen bingo, a Judy Garland singalong and inter-seat speed dating.

ChrisVJ
11th Oct 2018, 00:19
As I understand it the customers wanted a "special" cake made. They were not asking for a standard wedding cake. Essentially they were asking the bakers to create a cake around their own ideas.

Do you think an artist (painter) should be obliged to paint a picture of something he/she did not like if a customer asked for it? Barmy. Surely the customer could go somewhere else.

It might have been better for the bakers to bake a truly awful cake. Then offered the gay guys their money back after it was a disaster at the 'wedding.'

In Canada a retailer can demand that you leave the premises. He doesn't need an excuse. It is his premises and he can ask you to leave and the police will enforce it at any time.

fitliker
11th Oct 2018, 02:07
Have they made buggery compulsory yet ?
or just the posh schools ?

Krystal n chips
11th Oct 2018, 03:57
What a load of boll***s, and a waste of taxpayers' money. And billed as BBC's breaking news story of the day!!

Is the source of your angst the BBC....quite possibly as for many it's never been the same since they scrapped the Home Service.....or confusion as to the fact the worlds population doesn't entirely consist of heterosexual genders. ...or both.

Shack37 has probably provided a realistic insight as to what may have been the subliminal reason for the case and the opening statement from the bakers after the hearing is worth noting along with the judges summary. Interesting as well to read the subdued response from Stonewall ....

Anyway, today's headline in the Mail should serve to increase the sales of Ramipril with their readers reaction to another little piece of equality now getting scrutinised......

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

G-CPTN
11th Oct 2018, 04:21
It seems Virgin have a different take on whether the 'pink pound' is worth chasing.
due for take off from London Heathrow Airport in June 2019.

So not that urgent?

tescoapp
11th Oct 2018, 04:52
I wonder what the response would be if it was a baker in a Catholic area refusing to make a Rangers cake or Protestant area refusing a Celtic cake.

sitigeltfel
11th Oct 2018, 06:05
Was the man who ordered the cake a known customer of the bakery? Did he deliberately target them knowing his order would provoke a reaction?

From another case....

"The justification in the British Supreme Court's ruling is different from one used by its US counterpart that cleared a Colorado baker of discrimination in June.

That decision found that the civil rights group suing the baker showed animus by targeting him based on his religious beliefs."

highflyer40
11th Oct 2018, 06:20
As I understand it the customers wanted a "special" cake made. They were not asking for a standard wedding cake. Essentially they were asking the bakers to create a cake around their own ideas.

Do you think an artist (painter) should be obliged to paint a picture of something he/she did not like if a customer asked for it? Barmy. Surely the customer could go somewhere else.

It might have been better for the bakers to bake a truly awful cake. Then offered the gay guys their money back after it was a disaster at the 'wedding.'

In Canada a retailer can demand that you leave the premises. He doesn't need an excuse. It is his premises and he can ask you to leave and the police will enforce it at any time.


Not quite. If it can be proved you asked them to leave based on race, sexual orientation, or religion you can be sued in Canada.

timgill
11th Oct 2018, 07:48
AWould they also have needed permission to use what must surely be copyright images from Sesame Street?

treadigraph
11th Oct 2018, 07:50
AWould they also have needed permission to use what must surely be copyright images from Sesame Street?

The BBC or the baker? :)

jindabyne
11th Oct 2018, 07:53
Is the source of your angst the BBC....quite possibly as for many it's never been the same since they scrapped the Home Service.....or confusion as to the fact the worlds population doesn't entirely consist of heterosexual genders. ...or both.

Krystal - Both!

timgill
11th Oct 2018, 08:09
The BBC or the baker? :)

The baker, or the guy ordering the cake. The BBC is already covered I believe, as it is using the image as a legitimate "quote"

Toadstool
11th Oct 2018, 08:40
Have they made buggery compulsory yet ?
or just the posh schools ?

Why, do you want it to be?

Are posh schools compulsory?

cattletruck
11th Oct 2018, 09:58
Been following this issue on https://www.c4m.org.uk, among other similar issues on that site.

The court case was launched at the height of #metoo referendums around the world to recognise SSM, and by the time it reached the Supreme Court this SSM fad had lost most of its momentum and the contrived methods used to build that up could be clearly seen for what they really were.

They really did take playing the victim to the limit, and what gross stupidity to run it through the courts for the attention/publicity.

Tankertrashnav
11th Oct 2018, 10:09
In Canada a retailer can demand that you leave the premises. He doesn't need an excuse. It is his premises and he can ask you to leave and the police will enforce it at any time.Pretty much the same in the UK. Offering an item for sale is legally known as "invitation to treat" Not only is the shopkeeper not obliged to sell at the marked price, but they are not obliged to sell at all. I once refused to sell to a customer, not because he was gay/black/ Jewish etc, all of which would have found me in foul of the law, but because he was acting like a total arse. He threatened me with trading standards, but I suspect he got short shrift because I heard no more. I notice that TV and radio consumers' programmes almost invariably deal with customers' rights, but rarely advertise the fact that sellers have rights too, and this case is welcome because it reminds us that they do

Shack37
11th Oct 2018, 10:14
For those interested enough to read it, here is a report from todays Belfast Telegraph. Seems Mr. Lee is considering continung his case in Europe.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/500000-legal-bill-for-ashers-gay-cake-case-37406743.html

Toadstool
11th Oct 2018, 10:16
Been following this issue on https://www.c4m.org.uk, among other similar issues on that site.

The court case was launched at the height of #metoo referendums around the world to recognise SSM, and by the time it reached the Supreme Court this SSM fad had lost most of its momentum and the contrived methods used to build that up could be clearly seen for what they really were.

They really did take playing the victim to the limit, and what gross stupidity to run it through the courts for the attention/publicity.

I absolutely agree with equality for all, irregardless of colour, gender, sexual persuasion etc. My daughter is gay and I can't wait to walk her down the aisle with her partner. I am worried however that the pendulum is in danger of swinging the other way and that the rights of those who are white, heterosexual, male, christian or all could be impinged in the name of righting all the wrongs that have occurred before equality. Equality should mean just that; equality for all.

Krystal - Both!

While I feel that the attitude of the person who wrote the words above belongs in the age of the dinosaurs, he's not harming anyone by voicing his beliefs and it is right and proper that his ability to do so remains the same.

chuks
11th Oct 2018, 11:17
I once had an interesting encounter with a Chinese-American woman who came to look at an old Volvo I was selling on behalf of my mother. It was one of those things where I was visiting on leave from my job in Nigeria, when I found Mother in high dudgeon over being offered just $600 for her old car with a faulty automatic transmission. I offered to put an ad in the paper to see what we could get for it, surely more than $600. I put it in the Washington Post for $1500 or best offer, with a bad transmission, and then waited to see what happened next.

First up on Saturday was a young couple, just tire-kickers, so Fageddaboudit.

Then came the Dragon Lady, with husband (who spoke not a word), and college-age daughter (who also spoke not a word) in tow. Much palaver later Madame handed me her Century 21 realtor's card as if this were something of real value, promising to "come back later," when I promised not to sell the car to anyone else in the meantime. As if!

Soon afterwards a pair of Koreans showed up, one with English, the other with mechanical knowledge and a wad of bills in his pants pocket that could choke a horse. One short test ride later the guy with English offered me $1000, when I said "How about $1200?" Out came the wad; 12 crisp Benjamins were peeled off it in exchange for the keys and the title; and that was that, or so I assumed.

Late in the day the phone rang: the Dragon Lady! They had decided to buy the car, she said. I told her straight up that it was gone, that some Koreans had threatened me with cash money so that in a moment of weakness I had sold it. Anyway, I told her, I had a feeling that she would not have been happy with the car, when I did not want her pestering my mother with her future complaints after I had gone back to Nigeria. The woman proceeded to deny stoutly that she was the complaining sort but then went on to moan at length about this deal she had not even made. She then called back a second time to moan about how her daughter was now in tears over not getting her dream car: a Volvo 144GL with peeling paint and a bad transmission.

My best guess was that Dragon Lady would have got that car and then proceeded to bully my mother into getting it repaired, never minding that it had been sold "as is." Hey, free Volvo! It was a nice try, I guess, except that I did not stick around to see if Dragon Lady wanted to sue me for breach of contract, race prejudice, fraud, and mopery too.

nomorecatering
11th Oct 2018, 16:17
I really wish religious people would just shut up. If I order a cake with God sucks, suck it up and make it. I have no interest in your beliefs, or made up deities. I'm sick of god lovers believing they can inflict their ideals on others.

DaveReidUK
11th Oct 2018, 16:42
If I order a cake with God sucks, suck it up and make it. I have no interest in your beliefs, or made up deities. I'm sick of god lovers believing they can inflict their ideals on others.

Though you have no problem with cake-loving atheists doing likewise. Brilliant !!!!

SkodaVRS1963
11th Oct 2018, 17:51
As I understand it the customers wanted a "special" cake made. They were not asking for a standard wedding cake. Essentially they were asking the bakers to create a cake around their own ideas.

Do you think an artist (painter) should be obliged to paint a picture of something he/she did not like if a customer asked for it? Barmy. Surely the customer could go somewhere else.

It might have been better for the bakers to bake a truly awful cake. Then offered the gay guys their money back after it was a disaster at the 'wedding.'

In Canada a retailer can demand that you leave the premises. He doesn't need an excuse. It is his premises and he can ask you to leave and the police will enforce it at any time.

The insurance industry has had to change its model in recent years due to no longer being able to decline insurance to customers who don't fit their "ideal profile".

So they now do what the bakers should have done in the first place; quote a ridiculous price. "We can do that for you, the price will be £20,000".

No discrimination, they've offered a price, take it or leave it.

Andy_S
11th Oct 2018, 20:03
I really wish religious people would just shut up. If I order a cake with God sucks, suck it up and make it. I have no interest in your beliefs, or made up deities. I'm sick of god lovers believing they can inflict their ideals on others.

I think the whole point of the Supreme Court judgement was that the neither the staff nor owners of this bakery actually said anything at all. So how exactly where they supposed to shut up? And how exactly were they "inflicting" their ideals on others? They didn't try and obstruct or prevent gay marriage, all they did was refuse to accept an order for a cake.

Sallyann1234
11th Oct 2018, 22:36
I really don't see how it took three court cases to arrive at the obvious correct answer.
They weren't refusing to serve the guy. If he wanted a cake iced with 'Happy Birthday' or 'Merry Christmas' they would have served him cheerfully. They just didn't sell cakes with that particular slogan.

2 sheds
12th Oct 2018, 09:21
While I feel that the attitude of the person who wrote the words above belongs in the age of the dinosaurs, he's not harming anyone by voicing his beliefs and it is right and proper that his ability to do so remains the same.
So perhaps avoid the implied insult with the reference to dinosaurs just because you are voicing an alternative belief?

2 s

Tankertrashnav
12th Oct 2018, 09:53
Nobody has the right not to be insulted. Christians are regularly insulted on here by impolite references to "sky fairies" but I would not for one minute deny the right of those who post those insults to express their views. Nomorecatering may be rude and intolerant but he is free to express his views, as long as he doesnt mind me expressing mine.

My daughter is gay and I can't wait to walk her down the isle with her partner.

Which "isle" would that be toadstool? Not the Isle of Man I assume! ;)

nomorecatering
12th Oct 2018, 10:32
Thank you for the compliment Tankertrash. I am rude, and I am intolerant.

As a boy, I witnessed the introduction of Sunday trading in Sydney. A religious nut pined to me that I should go to Church instead of shopping. "I don't want to go to Church, I don't believe in God"........the response i got, which set my views on religion till the end of time...'Well you should be forced to go to church on Sunday whether you want to or not".

He didn't appreciate the middle finger and the FOXTROT OSCAR he received in return.

We all know the major churches are bastions of hypocrisy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkOHDoEkPW0

Tankertrashnav
12th Oct 2018, 10:54
Thank you for the compliment Tankertrash. I am rude, and I am intolerant.

Well at least that's cleared that up ;)

Toadstool
12th Oct 2018, 10:57
Nobody has the right not to be insulted. Christians are regularly insulted on here by impolite references to "sky fairies" but I would not for one minute deny the right of those who post those insults to express their views. Nomorecatering may be rude and intolerant but he is free to express his views, as long as he doesnt mind me expressing mine.



Which "isle" would that be toadstool? Not the Isle of Man I assume! ;)
Thankyou TTN, just noticed that. Shocking spelling, I hang my head in shame.

Dutystude
12th Oct 2018, 15:18
Of course Christian Bakers are just the type of low-hanging-fruit that Facists like to target. Not so tough with those who follow a creed that advocates killing homosexuals.

Gertrude the Wombat
12th Oct 2018, 17:01
Nobody has the right not to be insulted. Christians are regularly insulted on here by impolite references to "sky fairies" but I would not for one minute deny the right of those who post those insults to express their views.
Here in other times, and now in other places, one could or can get executed for saying such things (there was a story about a woman on death row for blasphemy on the radio this morning). Whilst there are limits to free speech I think that saying "sky fairy" from time to time is a useful reminder that such things are (no longer, not here at any rate) routinely fatal. Those who regard "liberal" as a dirty word and would prefer other illiberal times or places should perhaps think on this.

Tankertrashnav
12th Oct 2018, 23:18
Just to make it clear, I don't believe in God, or gods, or ghosts or any supernatural beings, but some people do believe in them. I think it's just good manners not to be rude about their beliefs, no matter how bizarre I find some of them.

TWT
12th Oct 2018, 23:30
Agreed TTN.

My brother is an electrical engineer and a very intelligent person. He follows the scientific method as one would expect from an engineer but he's also a 'Happy Clapper'.

I wouldn't dream of criticising his beliefs even if I might quietly wonder what it is he actually believes. If he gets something out of it, so be it, it's his life not mine.

West Coast
13th Oct 2018, 00:00
If he gets something out of it, so be it, it's his life not mine.

That pretty much summarizes it. Live and let live. Bake a cake, don’t bake a cake, I don’t care, I’ll find someone who will.

Ogre
13th Oct 2018, 06:53
I wasn't surprised that the case was originally raised because it was bound to happen, people pushing boundaries to see what they could get away with. I was pleasantly surprised about the new ruling as it seems to actually bring some common sense to bear.

What I was surprised about was an interview I heard on the radio with Peter Tatchell. He was expressing his support of the court ruling when I would have expected him to be all in favour of finding against the nasty baker who was oppressing the nice homosexual chap. His quote read "Although I profoundly disagree with Ashers' opposition to marriage equality, in a free society neither they nor anyone else should be forced to facilitate a political idea that they oppose."If the original judgement against Ashers had been upheld, it would have meant that a Muslim printer could be obliged to publish cartoons of Mohammed and a Jewish printer could be forced to publish a book that propagates Holocaust denial."

How bizarre

nomorecatering
13th Oct 2018, 17:06
I may just out a sign in my shop that reads "If you believe in a god, we will not serve you as it conflicts with our beliefs". Can you imagine the furor. Of course it's ok when religions god lovers discriminate.

Refusal to bake a cake is symbolic resistance............most really, deep down want to burn homosexuals at the stake.

In essence, there is no difference between Muslims and fundamentalist Christians. They both believe that the punishment for homosexuality is death.

Sallyann1234
13th Oct 2018, 17:15
Wrong.
The Supreme Court ruled definitively that there was no discrimination.

Your suggestion however certainly would be.
The difference is obvious.

Tankertrashnav
13th Oct 2018, 17:22
There may be a furore but in the UK there would be nothing to stop you opening such a shop - the law would defend your rights,

Would you be selling Christmas cakes and hot cross buns? ;)

Incidentally I'm not sure what your definition of a fundamentalist Christian is but I don't think there is any evidence that the owner of the bakery wishes to have homosexuals put to death - I think he just doesn't want them to get married.

nomorecatering
13th Oct 2018, 18:08
"I think he just doesn't want them to get married"............ mere semantics.

What that really means is.........I really hate those damn poofters and I wish i could kill them all, but if the best I can do is make someones life miserable by not serving them, or not allowing some people who i will never meet, to get married then I have done my bit punishing them damn filthy poofters.

i have witnessed first hand the poofter bashing that goes on, I have had former students of mine beaten up in the cockpit by the Captain IN FLIGHT. I have had people try to beat me up because they thought I was gay. A bad decision by the perp, he now has a permanent disability, a gift from yours truly. I have a lot of gay friends and the stories I hear, constantly, are horrifying. Anyone who thinks that hard line Christians don't want gays put to death is in fantasy land.

Andy_S
13th Oct 2018, 18:30
I really hate those damn poofters and I wish i could kill them all.....

Can you please point us to the evidence that the bakery owners actually feel that way. Otherwise we will be justified in assuming you simply made it up.

I have had people try to beat me up because they thought I was gay. A bad decision by the perp, he now has a permanent disability, a gift from yours truly.

​​​​​​​What a delightful person you must be.

BehindBlueEyes
13th Oct 2018, 18:53
"I think he just doesn't want them to get married"............ mere semantics.

What that really means is.........I really hate those damn poofters and I wish i could kill them all, but if the best I can do is make someones life miserable by not serving them, or not allowing some people who i will never meet, to get married then I have done my bit punishing them damn filthy poofters.

i have witnessed first hand the poofter bashing that goes on, I have had former students of mine beaten up in the cockpit by the Captain IN FLIGHT. I have had people try to beat me up because they thought I was gay. A bad decision by the perp, he now has a permanent disability, a gift from yours truly. I have a lot of gay friends and the stories I hear, constantly, are horrifying. Anyone who thinks that hard line Christians don't want gays put to death is in fantasy land.

Luckily, we are not yet able to police people's private thoughts. And we’ve all had thoughts that most of us would never actually act upon because we have a internal moral code that rightly prevents us from doing so. I disagree quite strongly with different politicians, some individuals in the media really wind me up and certain religious groups really anger me with their stance but that doesn’t mean at all that I want kill any of them! Most reasonable individuals just avoid the situations where they might come in contact with their particular aversion. This is what Daniel McArthur was doing. You can’t MAKE someone agree with your views - if you think you can, you’re as intolerant and deluded as those you are seeking to convert. This baker wasn’t even suggesting that gays needed to be exterminated or that they needed to be punished. He just chose not to do business with someone whose views he disagreed with.

flash8
13th Oct 2018, 19:26
"What that really means is.........I really hate those damn poofters and I wish i could kill them all, but if the best I can do is make someones life miserable by not serving them, or not allowing some people who i will never meet, to get married then I have done my bit punishing them damn filthy poofters.

i have witnessed first hand the poofter bashing that goes on, I have had former students of mine beaten up in the cockpit by the Captain IN FLIGHT. I have had people try to beat me up because they thought I was gay. A bad decision by the perp, he now has a permanent disability, a gift from yours truly. I have a lot of gay friends and the stories I hear, constantly, are horrifying. Anyone who thinks that hard line Christians don't want gays put to death is in fantasy land.You are in Oz, I suspect it is certainly not as liberally minded as the UK, and perhaps even on par with Russia (Gays here need to keep in the closet if they wish to survive), from what I recall of the UK it is pretty open minded, had gay friends in the 90's and other than a few snide remarks (mostly by senior management and they were pretty careful even then to remark in private) most of us mixed without any real problems with sexuality.

TWT
13th Oct 2018, 19:31
You are in Oz, I suspect it is certainly not as liberally minded as the UK, and perhaps even on par with Russia (Gays here need to keep in the closet if they wish to survive I suspect)

You're wrong about the attitude to gay people in Oz. Australia is not a place where gay people have to hide their sexuality with the exception of some small conservative rural towns. There were isolated cases of gay people being beaten up in the past but hopefully that has now diminished..

I guess you've never heard of this event either :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Gay_and_Lesbian_Mardi_Gras

Dutystude
13th Oct 2018, 19:53
"I think he just doesn't want them to get married"............ mere semantics.

What that really means is.........I really hate those damn poofters and I wish i could kill them all, but if the best I can do is make someones life miserable by not serving them, or not allowing some people who i will never meet, to get married then I have done my bit punishing them damn filthy poofters.

i have witnessed first hand the poofter bashing that goes on, I have had former students of mine beaten up in the cockpit by the Captain IN FLIGHT. I have had people try to beat me up because they thought I was gay. A bad decision by the perp, he now has a permanent disability, a gift from yours truly. I have a lot of gay friends and the stories I hear, constantly, are horrifying. Anyone who thinks that hard line Christians don't want gays put to death is in fantasy land.


Good grief.

The bakers hold to a tradional Christian view on marriage. Holding views/beliefs is not yet a criminal offence in the UK; perhaps you think it should be - excepting yours of course.

For them to to agree to decorate the cake as requested would have been the height of hypocrisy indeed an act of prostitution

There are plenty of right-on Jet Blasters on here who screech “hypocrite” at the drop of a hat but are quite happy to see these two vilified for refusing to prostitute their views/beliefs.

Don'ttouchthat!
13th Oct 2018, 19:59
There's something not right about the reporting (BBC I think) ... ... So I've decided I don't believe the reports I've read so far (the days are long past when the BBC would have automatically included a link to the judgement in a story like that so you could read it for yourself).

I hate to say this, but in the interests of fair play and accuracy, there IS a link in the third paragraph of the BBC report on 10 October on the outcome of the case direct to the judgement itself. Sorry to let the truth get in the way of a good prejudice.

DaveReidUK
13th Oct 2018, 20:22
One or two posters might benefit from reading it:

https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2017-0020.html

nomorecatering
13th Oct 2018, 20:25
You are in Oz, I suspect it is certainly not as liberally minded as the UK, and perhaps even on par with Russia (Gays here need to keep in the closet if they wish to survive I suspect)

Oh dear....never let facts ruin a good argument.

The biggest social event of the year, the single biggest tourism event each year, brings in $500 million in tourist revenue, 200,000 people from overseas fly in each and every year. Yeah, you're right oz is not as liberal minded as the UK PMSL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjWGVuhe2-8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c__T2-TDcVo

Gertrude the Wombat
13th Oct 2018, 20:42
I hate to say this, but in the interests of fair play and accuracy, there IS a link in the third paragraph of the BBC report on 10 October on the outcome of the case direct to the judgement itself.
Sorry, missed that, if it was buried in the middle of the text. The used to put such things in an easily findable "external links" section for each story, which is where you would go to look for the link to the judgement or the AAIB report or whatever - it's that that's gone. Or at least the curated, relevant, links have gone - there's sometimes a section of algorithmically generated links, some of which sometimes bear some relation to the main story, but there's really no guarantee that there will be links to the original reports etc there.

Startledgrapefruit
14th Oct 2018, 07:58
Glad they won.... Best cake shop in Belfast !!

cattletruck
14th Oct 2018, 10:49
It's really odd don't you think that gays and lesbians think themselves as never being capable of being like the bullies they despise. Some of them (not all of them) look for anything to play the victim then go hard in public with cries of discrimination as a means of furthering their own private agenda.

The following are examples of cowardly opportunistic bullying I've experienced by homosexuals in my own workplace.
- A homosexual ministerial advisor once attacked me personally and professionally then banned me from access to his floor - all this for just for trying to help him with his computer - his explanation was based on lies.
- The first time I worked for them Ericsson retards I had resigned on my own volition after a team member was murdered. I later found out that their homosexual HR manager secretly banned me from future employment for seven years. The ban was based on lies.
- The second time I worked for those Ericsson retards ten years later, a homosexual manager secretly advertised my job and employed his mate. Ericsson Sweden offered my job back 6 months later but by then I decided there would never be a 3rd time.
- In a health organisation that was dominated by lesbians I once received a call from one of the directors to come over and help her with her computer. As I entered her office I was ambushed by another female staff member who placed a flower reed over my neck as the director took a photo against my will.
- A few years ago and much to the surprise of my own manager I was summarily dismissed under the request of a homosexual executive whom I'd never met who had made up a bunch of lies. When I took the matter to court the company settled as the lies wouldn't hold in court - and I had received threats prior to court.

Once upon a time I used to tolerate gays and lesbians, today I think they are selfish, self-centred, whinging, militant, evil and capable of ruining innocent people's lives.

Glad they won.... Best cake shop in Belfast !!

I totally agree. Why do these antagonists think that it's perfectly acceptable to destroy someone's livelihood because they don't agree with them? Perhaps a dose of diazepam would have been cheaper and more effective.

Gertrude the Wombat
14th Oct 2018, 13:38
It's really odd don't you think that gays and lesbians think themselves as never being capable of being like the bullies they despise.
Not the ones I know. They just think they're people, and no more or less subject to having nasty people amongst their ranks than anyone else.

fitliker
14th Oct 2018, 14:40
Even odder that lesbians say they are not attracted to men ,but date women who look like men :)

That, the UK Supreme Court quotes the USA Supreme Court in it decision, makes for some interesting reading .