Shared ownership of Agusta 109 in Yorkshire

[nigelh]

I am selling my beautiful Agusta 109 Mk2 which is based in Yorkshire as I now have new 505 . I have been approached by two people in last week offering circa £75k for 1/4 share but on condition that I keep 1/4 and continue to manage it and hangar it for free !
As I love it so much I would be prepared to do that but need one more person to come in . I have all the figures based upon 200hrs per year including depreciation . I also have fuel available here @ around 50ppl at present so hourly fuel cost is under £100 . All the owners also have access to the 505 at very good rates if the 109 is unavailable. Very happy to do demos at cost for anyone interested unless it sells beforehand!
PM me for all details .

[fleigle]

Is the former post not considered advertising?
f

[nigelh]

There have been plenty of others asking for and offering SFH and group ownership . I haven't offered the helicopter for sale ... Just the opportunity to join a group which I think is a useful. Do you know of any other SFH groups with a 109 ?
would you be happier if I said ....." Would anyone be interested in forming a group to run a 109 in the north of England ?"

Sneak ...!!!

[fleigle]

Are you calling me a sneak?, it is a public forum, I am making a comment.
You have been going on and on about your 505, how wonderfull, can't wait to get it...blah, blah, blah, then oops, but I really love my 109, now you are looking to rent it out.
Sorry if you did not like my comment.
f

[nigelh]

I’m sorry you didn’t like my comment about being a sneak .... I forgot you were a Yank and wouldn’t understand Brit humour !! It appears you are upset about something...
Yes I do like the 505 but haven’t actually got it home yet . And yes I do really love my 109 and may keep it if others wish to share it with me . If they don’t then I will sell it . I would use the 109 for longer journeys and likely IFR trips .
I guess that is really strange ...!!

[Tailboom]

There’s loads of people on here Nige looking to form groups or asking about sfh so you’re doing nothing wrong, what a fantastic opportunity for someone just wished I lived closer

[richardthethird]

Tampon change for Fleigle!

[nigelh]

Thanks Tailboom . I think there are quite a few people who would love to fly a 109 but are nervous on many levels
1) Flying a twin sounds daunting but actually the average pilot with say 3-500 hrs could fly one proficiently within just an hour or two . It is actually a very stable and simple aircraft to fly !!
2) Costs . Well you are right to worry about costs , but they can get just as high on singles .... my 350 cost a lot more to run than my 109 has but shared ownership does mean you only pay a % of the invoice .
I would say to anyone interested to use it for fun or business or even IFR training , Type rating or just building twin hours to just lease it for a few hours and see how they get on before committing. As I also have a large stock of spares I doubt if there will be cheaper 109 flying available anywhere .

[tqmatch]

Nigel check your PM's

[nigelh]

By the number of messages already there does seem to be a demand for fast twin ifr capable machines available for SFH / Lease or shared ownership !! The more I look at it the more I think a share in a single and a twin could be more useful than owning one 100% . Do the fun good wx trips in the single and the longer , over water or ifr weather ones in the twin . Then a share in a fixed wing as well and you have everything covered !!!!

[Evil Twin]

Nigel and I don't necessary agree on some things (he likes the look of the 505 and I don't) but, this is an absolute steal of a deal. If I had the money to buy a used 911 I'd be buying one of these 109 shares up for offer in a heartbeat.

Just chill fleigle, life's too short.

[nigelh]

Thanks Evil .... well it’s a good thing we all have different tastes !! I have said here that it has really grown on me but in an ideal world I would still have longer skids !! ( they are already longer but still too short in my opinion )
The 109 is now cheaper than some 1970,s JetBangers ... cheaper than a 20 year old Enstrom and about 50% of the price of an 80,s MD500 . Up until a very few years ago they were fetching around £6-700k so they have done a nose dive , mainly due to being dropped by AOC,s because of Cat A performance. Not something that bothers me on private / lease or SFH I hasten to add !!
i think that any depreciation from these levels will be small but ..... if they did say halve again in value that would be brilliant for owners who want to fly them as parts will become cheaper than 206 parts ( in fact we are already almost there with loads of spares available) . So my thoughts are that IF , and it could go the other way , they drop further in value then it would be worth buying one for spares for say £80-100k without engines and stop worrying !!!
I would prefer a 1/4 share in one rather than a second hand Range Rover for same money which will halve over 24 months !

[nigelh]

Wow ....there are a lot of people out there interested in shared ownership of a twin and some of them already have singles available to them . It does make you wonder if there isnt a business to be made out of operating shared singles , twins , turbojets and jets ...maybe boats etc as well . Maybe owning a share of ALL of these gets you much better return in use and more fun than owning 100% of just one ?? Maybe somebody will come along and offer a share swap for % of their CJ or Pilatus or their Sunseeker !

[RMK]

I agree. It's a shame for nice toys to sit idle. I recently noted an owner of an Oyster 65 yacht who hadn't taken it out of the marina in 18 months. Might as well share it around; it's a waste not to.

[nigelh]

Maybe he would like to swap a share in that for a share in this ....Oyster 65 is a nice boat ! Extraordinary ...it will probably come to nothing but i have now had 7 serious enquiries on this ....all wanting just a share . None want outright ownership . That does make sense but it is also really nice having it sitting just outside waiting for you !! Looks like the offer of the 505 as an alternative if the 109 is busy is also popular . Cheap fuel and free hangarage dont seem to be important .....

[Hedski]

If I had the cash and was a self flyer for business or pleasure I'd do it in a flash. For those considering it I highly recommend not trying to just be a VFR PPL on it. Use the aircraft and go do an IR if you don't have one already. It will a) make you a better more accurate pilot, b) capable of using a 109 to the full and c) likely reduce insurance premium depending on your hours. Also gives you some time with an experienced 109 driver next to you while you get comfortable.

If it's not been thought of maybe sell the share and an additional 5th 'share' for the same amount thereby having a rainy day fund for when parts are needed. Extra equity in the group and allows your 505 a bit of funding if insurance goes up. Just my thoughts though.

[Thomas coupling]

Firstly Nigel - I hope you'll get the deal you want - no doubt you've earned it and even though we don't see eye to ey on many things, I wish you the very best with your aviation ventures.
PS: Having dealt with several aircraft owners recently about "part share", syndicates, call it what you wish. I am sure you have taken the correct legal steps to distance yourself from everyone else in the syndicate, should (God forbid) something untoward happen from an insurance perspective. Without due dilligence many a syndicate member has dragged down the whole syndicate in a court case where a substantial claim is proven.

[nigelh]

Thank you TC . I am taking advice and am in the process of making sure that there is no liability to the group as a whole ...that's a good point and anybody operating a helicopter whether charter , lease , SFH or training need to make sure they have the correct legal structure . On that note , you seem to be quite knowledgeable re the legal liability issues ...do you have any specific aviation lawyer you would use to draft the syndicate agreement ? Obviously I am hoping to have serious sensible pilots in the group and will certainly be using a couple of friends of mine as safety pilots which I firstly think is sensible but also may be necessary for insurance purposes . I would also offer to be one when available but you may think that is a contradiction in terms !!!! Hopefully I get a nice group of 4 or 5 and we all have fun with the two machines !!

[Hughes500]

Nigel

Put a hook on teh 505 and Ii would join in !!! That is if it will lift what hey claim !

[DOUBLE BOGEY]

Hi Nigel. I can’t believe that Fleigle is such a Sneak!.

Good luck with your new 505 and the 109.

[nigelh]

Thanks DB . I still am hopeful of someone buying the 109 outrightand maybe forming their own group as it will be a squash with both in the hangar !
Hughes ... my 505 does have hook provisions and it will lift 8-900kg . I am sure you could take a block of hours to try it ! ( circa £700/hr dry ) and you could give me a lesson on sling loading then I can lift the shot deer off the mountains in Scotland.