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SpringHeeledJack
1st Oct 2018, 14:34
A friend lost their wallet on a train and.......had it returned several days later, which is a result! The cash was all there counted and recorded on a receipt, however ALL the cards were cut in half as per company policy toward lost bank cards! So, my question is do the rail company (in this case) have the legal right to cut your cards up, bearing in mind that said cards are neither their property, nor the card holder's, although the cardholder has the use thereof. What's the deal ?

lomapaseo
1st Oct 2018, 15:02
To save arguments and possible court costs the rail company should simply keep the wallet and nobody knows the difference

Sallyann1234
1st Oct 2018, 15:18
You got your property returned.
The bank would probably be pleased that their cards had been put out of use in the circumstances.

sidevalve
1st Oct 2018, 15:34
^ What Sally said.

KelvinD
1st Oct 2018, 15:56
If the rail company had contacted the banks, they would have requested the cards be cut in half. My nipper lost his wallet once and discovered he had lost it within a short time. He went to the local police station and a lady had handed it in less than half an hour earlier yet the banks had already asked the police to cut them up.

SpringHeeledJack
1st Oct 2018, 15:58
I was impressed and surprised that my friend's wallet was returned with all contents intact, including the cash! I'm amazed that the train company has a policy to destroy that which is not their's, even if the banks 'might' be happy about the cards being put out of use.

alfaman
1st Oct 2018, 16:34
The individual is the account holder but the bank owns the card, therefore what they ask is what the finder should do. It saves any debate about whether the card was used illicitly whilst out of the holders protection. The rail companies policy doesn't surprise me at all.

DaveReidUK
1st Oct 2018, 18:20
When your friend's cards were cut up, did that mean that the accounts in question were cancelled? Or was it just a case of getting replacement cards from the issuers?

If the latter, it's hardly much of an inconvenience. If the former, then I can see it being a bit of a PITA. But not as much of a pain as having had somebody else use them. :O

SpringHeeledJack
1st Oct 2018, 18:58
As I understand it they only had the pleasure of ordering replacements, although a couple were in their partner's control/shared name which has caused more stress than needed. It's good that no-one was able to misuse the cards, but I find the policy a step too far in terms of personal property tbh.

ShyTorque
1st Oct 2018, 19:15
Could have been worse - they might have cut the tenners in half.

Bull at a Gate
1st Oct 2018, 19:24
Stop complaining please. The world is full of people who want to complain about something. I wish to complain about them and the internet gives me an audience.

SpringHeeledJack
1st Oct 2018, 19:34
Stop complaining please. The world is full of people who want to complain about something. I wish to complain about them and the internet gives me an audience.

Strewth mate! I'm only presenting a situation for comment and it would seem that my opinion is different to the majority. Btw the friend is an Aussie and was taken aback by the card cutting without permission, but amazed that the cash was still there.

Sallyann1234
1st Oct 2018, 20:01
It's good that no-one was able to misuse the cards, but I find the policy a step too far in terms of personal property tbh.
But all your personal property was returned intact. You have no cause for complaint.

WingNut60
1st Oct 2018, 20:27
As I understand it they only had the pleasure of ordering replacements, although a couple were in their partner's control/shared name which has caused more stress than needed. It's good that no-one was able to misuse the cards, but I find the policy a step too far in terms of personal property tbh.

Jack, if your friend had reported the cards missing to the card company, as he should have, then they would have cancelled them anyway.
And you cannot un-cancel cards. All you can do is ask for new ones.They cancelled one of mine once because it had a suspect transaction on it. Even though I still had the card and told them I thought that it "might" be OK.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st Oct 2018, 20:32
They cancelled one of mine once because it had a suspect transaction on it. Even though I still had the card and told them I thought that it "might" be OK.
Them (automated call): "Do you recognise these transactions?"

Me: (presses button for "no")

Them: (real person from security team now on the phone): "So, these suspect transactions ..."

Me: "Look, I truthfully said I didn't recognise them. But my wife is out shopping just right now, and I've no idea where or what she's buying."

Pontius Navigator
1st Oct 2018, 21:21
When the wallet was lost the loser would inform the issuer who would cancel the cards and instruct you, should they turn up, to cut them up.

For whatever reason it seems the OPs friend had not cancelled them. Fortunately the finder did cut them up. When they returned the wallet to the stranger who claimed it they left it to the claimant to get replacements.

Personally I use Sentinel Card Services who will cancel cards and order replacements. They can supply emergency cash and pay for new passports, driving licences etc.

packapoo
1st Oct 2018, 21:29
Gotta wonder at some people. Wallet back, ALL the cash, still not happy - wants to quibble....:ugh:

G0ULI
2nd Oct 2018, 00:05
The cards are and remain the property of the issuer at all times. If the bank or card issuer instructs that found cards be cut in half, that is what will happen. You as the user of the cards have no rights. You mislaid, lost the cards, or allowed them to be stolen in the first place. The card issuer is acting to reduce any potential losses as a result of subsequent events. Read the small print on the forms that come when new cards are issued.

megan
2nd Oct 2018, 02:28
Have to agree packapoo. Some months ago received a phone call from the fraud squad of our federal police with the information they had cancelled my Visa card. An hour previous someone opened an account with Uber in Hong Kong using my card details, though no money changed hands, its apparently a method used to see if the card details are valid, if Uber accepts they then know they can go on a spending spree. It amazed me that the fraud squad contacted me only an hour following the opening of the account, can't complain about service like that. My job then to call my card provider to tell them it had been cancelled, and pretty please, can I have a new one. No quibbles from me, in fact a big hand to the federal police.

ExSp33db1rd
2nd Oct 2018, 03:28
My wallet pick-pocketed whilst in a New York bar. Police advised cancelling my only credit card in those days, VISA, and gave me a tel. no, which proved to be somewhere in Nth. Dakota. Only info. I provided was VISA number and my name. Having cancelled that, I was then asked if I wanted to also cancel a so called Loyalty card for an obscure retail outlet in Bournemouth, England ! ( which in fact was still at home, not routinely carried in my wallet ) That enquiry from an American girl in some cave in Nth Dakota at 02.00 am in the mid-60's - Big Brother has always been watching us, nothing to do with Farcebook.

My wallet was returned to my home address by my UK Postman a few weeks later, it had been tossed into a mail can, minus only the cash, and the US P.Office had noted my airline identity card, which also in those days was not required to swing around ones' neck, and was only produced on demand, so had passed it to the airline office in New York, who sent it to London, and it was then posted to my home ( without pre-advice, it arrived unexpectedly ! ) by then I had of course renewed all necessary items, including my driving licence, but I kept that in case I ever got "demerit points" printed on my new one ( never did) then I could have shown any nosey Copper at a roadside check a "clean" licence. Doubtless a highly criminal act, but all history now.

Captivep
2nd Oct 2018, 05:11
A friend lost their wallet on a train and.......had it returned several days later, which is a result! The cash was all there counted and recorded on a receipt, however ALL the cards were cut in half as per company policy toward lost bank cards! So, my question is do the rail company (in this case) have the legal right to cut your cards up, bearing in mind that said cards are neither their property, nor the card holder's, although the cardholder has the use thereof. What's the deal ?

This is very close to an archetype of a first world problem!

UniFoxOs
2nd Oct 2018, 06:19
Ex-Sp, when younger, and before the DVLA computer system made it impossible, I had 3 driving licences and used to send them in in rotation to have speeding points awarded.

DaveReidUK
2nd Oct 2018, 06:50
For whatever reason it seems the OPs friend had not cancelled them. Fortunately the finder did cut them up.

Which of course would be no guarantee that they weren't still being used fraudulently online.

Pontius Navigator
2nd Oct 2018, 07:52
When one of my wife's two cards were stolen Access spotted the theft before she did.

When an Egg card was cloned a number of little transactions were made followed by an attempt to hire a BMW. Again the fraud department discovered it. It was the attempt to hire a BMW that sealed it. I wouldn't have hired a beamer☺

More recently when we moved home our card kept being blocked because of extraordinary expenditure. Our bank also blocked cash transfers to one of our tradesmen. How banks let thousands be taken I don't know as the Coop blocked a couple of hundred.

WingNut60
2nd Oct 2018, 09:37
The incident I mentioned previously was when a legitimate, small value payment to a software vendor was re-directed to their head office in an eastern blok country.
RED FLAG and no, we're cancelling your card no matter what.

$30 had been converted to zlotys or whatever and I didn't recognise either the value or the parent company.

But the next time,$3300 for a camera in Hong Kong was definitely not mine.

Dont Hang Up
2nd Oct 2018, 10:14
... taken aback by the card cutting without permission.

As was already said, the cards belong to the bank. The bank would be happy to provide permission - retrospectively or otherwise.
To me, it sounds like completely sensible policy of the rail company

cattletruck
2nd Oct 2018, 10:41
Perhaps the rail company have a SOP whereby when they receive a lost wallet they audit the contents and call the CC company and take instructions from them which may include cutting them up after deactivation. Perhaps they don't even call but just follow a procedure issued by their senior management. Can't really blame them for wanting to do the right thing, however if you really want to know why they cut up your cards then just politely ask them.

Trossie
2nd Oct 2018, 11:15
Reminds me of a story that I was told some time ago about the recruiting process for cabin crew at a well-known long-haul airline that has a name that links sexually inexperienced people and an ocean.

The scenario was set: "It is night, in the cruise, and everyone is asleep. A well-dressed man gets up to go to the toilet and on his way drops his wallet in the aisle and you notice it. What do you do?" They are each asked this during their individual interviews.

1st interviewee: "I would pick it up and wait for him to come out and give it to him". (Lots of scribbling on clipboards by interviewers.)

2nd interviewee: "I would pick it up. As everyone is asleep no-one would have seen what had happened to it and he would not have known where he dropped it so I would keep it." (Lots of scribbling on clipboards by interviewers.)

3rd interviewee: "I would pick it up and look to see if there was any cash in it. As the cards are all traceable I would leave them alone. I would take about half of the cash and keep it myself. When he comes out of the toilet I would hand it to him telling him politely that he had dropped it. He would be thankful for having it returned to him. If he later noticed that there was cash missing he would be too embarrassed to contact me to mention it as I had been so polite when I gave it to him." (Lots of scribbling on clipboards by interviewers.)

Which one got the job?
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... the one with the biggest 8oobs!

DaveReidUK
2nd Oct 2018, 11:43
Which one got the job?

... the one with the biggest 8oobs!

Well provided she (he?) was the first-mentioned interviewee, sounds like a win-win to me. :O

SpringHeeledJack
2nd Oct 2018, 14:19
Perhaps the rail company have a SOP whereby when they receive a lost wallet they audit the contents and call the CC company and take instructions from them which may include cutting them up after deactivation. Perhaps they don't even call but just follow a procedure issued by their senior management. Can't really blame them for wanting to do the right thing, however if you really want to know why they cut up your cards then just politely ask them.

That sounds like pretty much what transpired. Perhaps in the past there were charges made on found cards and it caused unneeded stress to the rail company, so they just assume that the issuing card companies are happy to have the cards destroyed. I've found a few wallets and quite a few cards over the years and have always dropped them into a bank that had a card in said lost property. Perhaps I should have cut the cards up before handing them back ? ;-)

Trossie
2nd Oct 2018, 15:40
Well provided she (he?) was the first-mentioned interviewee, sounds like a win-win to me. :O
Dave, you have a one-in-three chance of that result!

Tankertrashnav
2nd Oct 2018, 17:21
I hardly ever carry any cash these days - maybe a tenner or so, but a while back I happened to have about 80 in my wallet when I "lost" it. Cancelled both debit cards and both credit cards that were in the wallet, and had a little moan about the loss of eighty quid. Then within an hour of cancelling the cards I found the wallet down beside the driver's seat in my car! Too late to "uncancel" the cards of course, I just had to wait 4 or 5 days till the new ones arrived. Still, I had the 80 to fall back on (and Mrs TTN's cards)!

oldchina
2nd Oct 2018, 18:59
Reminds me of collar studs and carbon paper ...
Do people still carry wallets ?

WingNut60
2nd Oct 2018, 21:38
Reminds me of collar studs and carbon paper ...
Do people still carry wallets ?

I certainly do, but mainly for cards (6 off), drivers license, bus pass, etc, etc.

Tip of the day : Long flight? take your wallet out of your back pocket.

ExSp33db1rd
2nd Oct 2018, 22:27
........take your wallet out of your back pocket.

If you keep your wallet in your back pocket you deserve to have it stolen. Even keeping mine deep down in a side pocket of my trousers was no good, ( Post # 20) I'm amazed how many wallets and cellphones I see sticking out of the back pockets of jeans - too easy. ( thinks .. why aren't more phones sat on ? )

Honesty (#28) ... 8 yr. old son came up to us in a retail store, ( UK) holding a large denomination note that he had found on the floor, and asked what he should do with it ? I took him to the counter and told the cashier that we would take it to the Police Station, should someone come in and start looking for it. How much is it, he asked ? Not going to tell you, I said, knowing that his mother, friend, wife (pick one ) might well go along to the Police later that day and accurately describe the loss. The Desk Sgt.explained to my son that no one ever took lost cash to the Police, and he wasn't sure what to do with it, so suggested that my son took it home and kept it safe for them, and if it was claimed then he must take it back if asked, but if after 3 months they hadn't asked him to, then he could spend it on himself. Of course it ultimately became his.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd Oct 2018, 22:33
suggested that my son took it home and kept it safe for them, and if it was claimed then he must take it back if asked, but if after 3 months they hadn't asked him to, then he could spend it on himself. Of course it ultimately became his.
That would appear to be the usual procedure. One of our kids got to keep a 20 note they found that way.

Tankertrashnav
2nd Oct 2018, 23:04
What do you keep your driving licence, credit cards etc in Oldchina? Some sort of folder? ie a little wallet?

When I was running a collectors' shop a bloke came in one day and asked if I had any really cheap foreign banknotes. I fixed him up with a bundle of assorted notes for a fiver. He wanted these to stuff a wallet with which he could hand over when he got mugged on an overseas trip somewhere. His actual cash was in a money belt.

Krystal n chips
3rd Oct 2018, 04:07
3rd interviewee: "I would pick it up and look to see if there was any cash in it. As the cards are all traceable I would leave them alone. I would take about half of the cash and keep it myself. When he comes out of the toilet I would hand it to him telling him politely that he had dropped it. He would be thankful for having it returned to him. If he later noticed that there was cash missing he would be too embarrassed to contact me to mention it as I had been so polite when I gave it to him." (Lots of scribbling on clipboards by interviewers.)

Which one got the job?
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... !

Probably this one on the basis of being fast tracked for a high level career in airline management having proved to have all the personal qualities required.....

And if you are daft, or rather stupid, enough to put a loose card or your wallet in you back pocket, then you can't really complain when either of these items go missing, be that lost or nicked.

DaveReidUK
3rd Oct 2018, 07:01
Carrying a wallet in your back pocket is not good idea neither for your spinal discs, nor your sciatic nerve.

Sorry for the drift.

The 50th anniversary of the 747 reminds me that we were told when it first appeared that the reason for the "hump" at the front end was so that the pilots could sit on their wallets ...

Pontius Navigator
3rd Oct 2018, 07:43
Master Aircrew used to use wheelbarrow back in the 70s.

Sorry for Aviation Content.

ExSp33db1rd
3rd Oct 2018, 08:25
The 50th anniversary of the 747 reminds me that we were told when it first appeared that the reason for the "hump" at the front end was so that the pilots could sit on their wallets ...

But it wasn't true, if it had been what would the Concorde Captains have had to do, that was a long time before Online Banking ?

tdracer
4th Oct 2018, 01:23
I of the opinion 'better safe than sorry' when it comes to credit cards. Sometimes it's a hassle - several years ago I had my Visa flagged for fraud because my wife was in Indonesia and used it - same day I used my card in the US. The retailer I was at was immediately alerted to keep me from leaving and check my card and ID. Once I proved who I was they put me on the phone with someone with the bank (who again made me prove who I was) - I explained my wife was in Indonesia and it was probably OK but they were not satisfied (now days I've noticed my wife and my card have slightly different numbers which would have helped on this incident). I asked them to provide me with contact information, said I"d call my wife that night (14 hour time difference meant it was the middle of the night there while this was going on) and see if it was a legit charge, and call them back as soon as I knew. That night I talked to my wife - sure enough she'd bought a cell phone to use while there (for some reason cell phones are a frequent fraud purchase) - called Visa back and cleared everything up.
Yes, a hassle, but I'm glad they are watching. Another time they caught fraudulent use of one of my cards within 24 hours - contacted me - I said 'no, that wasn't me' and they took care of it from there - including issuing new cards.

ExSp33db1rd
4th Oct 2018, 06:47
Yes, a hassle, and if you don't live, or are at least present, in the country of issue, and work from nine to five, utilise the statutory Public Holidays, order Pizza from Domino's and partake in the usual working class domestic activities of that country, no one understands, and usually doesn't care, either.
Mrs. ExS has just had an issue, not credit card fraud, but demonstrates the problem, with a financial organisation that she has an Online arrangement with. She wished to sell some shares and their website had instructions, but having spent the best part of some considerable time filling in everything, plus username, password, etc. etc. and attempting to "submit", her application was rejected because International deals couldn't be done Online, it said, so what was the good of signing on to an Online service ? Isn't the Internet, and Online facilities what is supposed to make International life easy ? She was told that she had to ring a US 0800 number, which is another problem when not in the US. "Our" system of dialling US 0800 numbers didn't work, so having found a regular area code she spent 45 expensive minutes listening to Mozart because her call was so important to them, and when finally connected she was told that The Market closes in 40 seconds, call back tomorrow, goodnight.