View Full Version : Eurowings Europe to get a collective labour agreement
CapitalB
1st Oct 2018, 09:58
I've been prying this forum for about a year now and just saw that Eurowings Europe is finally getting a Collective Labour Agreement. I'd post a link to austrianaviation but apparently thats not possible in your first 10 posts so you gotta check it out yourselves - sorry!
Now - does anyone have any definite numbers on what's changing for new FOs?
Are they just raising the compensation to what Eurowings Germany is paying or even more?
Cheers!
Daddy Fantastic
1st Oct 2018, 15:03
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufthansa-group/eurowings/breakthrough-for-collective-agreement-between-eurowings-europe-vienna-and-austrian-union-vida/
stranotipo
1st Oct 2018, 16:04
New basic pay for captains a whopping 78000 Brutto....
ExDubai
1st Oct 2018, 16:47
New basic pay for captains a whopping 78000 Brutto....
How much is the flight pay?
How much is the flight pay?
Basic pay incl. 75hrs granted duty pay for a new captain without prev. PIC experience is now: 94.091EUR
130 duty hrs. assumed/month: 108.881EUR
CapitalB
2nd Oct 2018, 19:16
Basic pay incl. 75hrs granted duty pay for a new captain without prev. PIC experience is now: 94.091EUR
130 duty hrs. assumed/month: 108.881EUR
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Any news on the revised FO Pay?
Daddy Fantastic
4th Oct 2018, 13:21
Anybody heard the latest CBA details for both FO and CA?
Thanks! Much appreciated!
Any news on the revised FO Pay?
For a new FO without prev. experience starting pay (incl. 75hrs guranteed) is now
around 4000.
Greets
aviationfanatic
5th Oct 2018, 14:17
For a new FO without prev. experience starting pay (incl. 75hrs guranteed) is now
around 4000.
Greets
Hi,
Is that figure gross or net? Last I heard it was around 2,500 net for a FO
Thanks
Daddy Fantastic
5th Oct 2018, 14:26
For a new FO without prev. experience starting pay (incl. 75hrs guranteed) is now
around 4000.
Greets
Is that inclusive of per diems and Gross or net. If not what are per diems per month? Looking specifically for take home pay for CA and FO and per diems on the side.
Thanks
CapitalB
5th Oct 2018, 20:24
For a new FO without prev. experience starting pay (incl. 75hrs guranteed) is now
around 4000.
Greets
Thanks!
Is that gross with the weird 14x salary rule in A?
It is gross. If you fly above the limit, expect to increase your salary by a few hundreds.
Btw, I would not call the '14 salary rule' weird, as these are taxed at a very low rate. And yes, you get 14 salaries.
levell
6th Oct 2018, 10:37
It is gross. If you fly above the limit, expect to increase your salary by a few hundreds.
Btw, I would not call the '14 salary rule' weird, as these are taxed at a very low rate. And yes, you get 14 salaries.Hi, and what about salaries for FOs with some experience? Are there any steps? Thx!
The exact figures are yet to be confirmed however previous experience will be credited for both F/O's and Cpt.
CapitalB
6th Oct 2018, 13:27
It is gross. If you fly above the limit, expect to increase your salary by a few hundreds.
Btw, I would not call the '14 salary rule' weird, as these are taxed at a very low rate. And yes, you get 14 salaries.
Gotcha! Thanks!
It's just weird in a sense that I've never really gotten around how it works until a few days ago. Surely no ones complaining about a 13th and 14th salary almost tax free!
Just for clarification - the 4.000 include 75 duty hours and would be paid 14x a year which puts the starting salary somewhere in the 54-56k range.
That'd now be even better than the 'new' german contracts that would include 130 duty hours a month and would average out around 52k pA.
dirk85
6th Oct 2018, 14:11
55k gross per year in Germany is less than 35000 net, if the tax calculator is right. Underwhelming to say the least, but still an improvement over the old contract, I guess.
CapitalB
6th Oct 2018, 14:24
55k gross per year in Germany is less than 35000 net, if the tax calculator is right. Underwhelming to say the least, but still an improvement over the old contract, I guess.
Preaching to the choir here. 'Better' is just another variation of underpaid in this situation.
The 75 hours are blockhours, not duty hours. However, the new EW-EU salary comes very close to the EW GmBH one at first look but keep in mind that the overall benefits (pension, LoL) are still better on the German contract.
I wouldn't call 55k plus additional allowances bad for a starter Dirk but it appears we both have a different sight on this matter.
dirk85
6th Oct 2018, 14:58
Less than 3000 net a month to fly 900 hours per year is bad from any angle I can think of, but that's probably just me. We have cabin crew here making more, and flying much less.
Well, this is the industry standard now. Wages for 320 and 737 start for beginners at around 45-60k, ranging up to 170k for experienced Captains. If you managed to get to an employer which offers more than that, that's totally fine for me. Besides the big majors in Europe and maybe EZY at some bases there aren't many carriers left who offer more.
PPRuNeUser0192
6th Oct 2018, 18:44
It's not the industry standard flyac, it's the Eurowings Europe standard.
Compare the NET starting salary with the salaries being paid at other low-cost airlines like Ryan, Norwegian, Easy.
Also your 54-56k is based on 900h which I think/hope is not very realistic.
Another big minus is that SFO and CPT salaries are also way below industry standard.
Congrats EW-EU pilots with signing the first collective labour agreement, but hopefully the conditions can improve more when signing new agreements in the future.
Look, I don't defend these salaries, I just don't agree by seeing them as bad.
Furthermore, one has to include a few factors in the overall package. The 14 salaries for example, you won't get these at your mentioned Loco's. Once again, these additional two are taxed at a very low rate and bring up the net salary by a considerable amount. Then the two years bonding for a 320 rating, another perk.
And last but not least, quite many Airlines in the German region pay a very similar salary to those at EW-EU, Austrian being a good example. And if I look further, I frankly can't see many other Airlines to pay over 55k for starters or over 170k for experienced Pilots.
flyhigh85
11th Oct 2018, 00:55
The salary is bad and below industry standard, period!
It is aceptable if you are starting and it is your first job, but since the payscale is starting so low I doubt that 5 years later when you are an experienced FO your salary would increase 60-70% to put you on pair with the industry standard.
When you are just slighty higher paid than your cabin crew something is wrong!
FlightDetent
11th Oct 2018, 21:26
Interesting debate, especially the comparison to EZY CC. Could someone pls put NET yearly earnings side-by-side?
matt283
11th Oct 2018, 21:40
Interesting debate, especially the comparison to EZY CC. Could someone pls put NET yearly earnings side-by-side?
All depends on country where based - italy, france, germany the t&c are very good, the rest of the bases not really that great...
FlightDetent
11th Oct 2018, 22:24
EZY senior CC Germany yearly net cash in the bank...........?
(assuming 22 yo and single, 800 block)
EW-EU F/O yearly net cash in the bank...............................?
(assuming 27 yo, married 1 kid, 750 block)
Ballpark figures, anyone? What is above is hard to read, whether or not net / gross / 14 salaries ...
matt283
11th Oct 2018, 22:55
orange senior CC Germany gross with 400sectors should be around 41 765.
flyac
11th Oct 2018, 23:21
The official numbers are already on Ppjn. It's roughly 60k for a new F/O, and 160k for a senior Cpt. To get the gross, divide it with 14. There are various Gross/net calculators to use to get your individual net (depends on various aspects). The salary is more or less the same salary as with Austrian and EW Germany, it's way higher than at Sunexpress and Germania. As many just deny the fact that the salary is indeed the German region industry standard, my advise is to check the numbers. Did I mention the fact that in Germany you only get 12 salaries at many Carriers? Point given, EW GMBH offers 13.
FlightDetent
11th Oct 2018, 23:52
How do I encourage you to give a number :\
dirk85
12th Oct 2018, 00:48
The official numbers are already on Ppjn. It's roughly 60k for a new F/O, and 160k for a senior Cpt. To get the gross, divide it with 14. There are various Gross/net calculators to use to get your individual net (depends on various aspects). The salary is more or less the same salary as with Austrian and EW Germany, it's way higher than at Sunexpress and Germania. As many just deny the fact that the salary is indeed the German region industry standard, my advise is to check the numbers. Did I mention the fact that in Germany you only get 12 salaries at many Carriers? Point given, EW GMBH offers 13.
Wow, that's a great salary, to be proud of!
Happy now?
We pilots really are our own worst enemy.
CapitalB
12th Oct 2018, 09:41
Wow, that's a great salary, to be proud of!
Happy now?
We pilots really are our own worst enemy.
Well unfortunately he's absolutely right.
Having looked at pretty much all german airlines that are hiring right now the aforementioned numbers are the industry standard. As low as they might are.
The most infuriating thing is that all the airlines hiring right now are, like everywhere in the world, in dire need of new pilots to minimise their AOG. Regardless of that though they continously offer less money while flying more hours than before.
I'd still pick the job over anything else on the ground but the mentality towards pilots and their pay is getting ridiculous.
Alpine Flyer
16th Oct 2018, 22:06
To get Austrian net rates, you can use the official calculator (https://rechner.cpulohn.at/bmf.gv.at/familienbonusplus/#bruttoNetto_familienbonus) of the ministry of finance.
Basically 13th salary (usually paid end of June as a "vacation supplement" and 14th salary (paid end of November as a "Christmas supplement") are subject to full social security deductions but just 6% tax. (One could argue that pilot should be able to save for vacation and Christmas... This system is bound to stay as abolishing it would be viewed as a fiscal attack on the common man and therefore amount to political suicide. This is rather stupid as small incomes are not taxed that vigorously anyway, making the 6% tax rate most lucrative for earners of high salaries whose ordinary rate would be 50%.
FO.Airbus
24th Oct 2018, 08:40
Hi.
What would be an estimated gross salary at Eurowings if 8000 hours total and 3000 hours as PIC on Airbus and current?
Thanks in advance!
alshep
18th Nov 2018, 18:19
Hi!
Does anyone know if this CLA applies to crews based in PMI as well? Also, is my understanding that now crews based in Palma have spanish contracts and pay taxes and social security in Spain, can someone confirm this?
Figures on PPJN look like a move in the right direction, but still short of other carriers.
If any EW EU pilot has figures for gross/net income for Captains in Palma feel free to PM me. ;)
Happy flights!
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