ATO/RTF question

[Wannabedriver]

I have had a search of the forums and can't find anything so here it goes.

Why are certain places offering PPL(A) courses not listed in the CAA ATO and RTF documents available on their website? Apologies if I've misread or overlooked something. Any explanation from someone experienced would be grand. - This is in the context of wanting to start a PPL(A) course.

Thank you

[jez d]

Are you referring to Standards Documents 30 & 31 which list current RTFs and ATOs? If yes then if a school isn't listed there then they might instead be listed here as a DTO (a new training organisation entity that all RTFs must become by April 2019): https://www.caa.co.uk/General-aviation/About-the-GA-unit/Declared-Training-Organisations/ . If not then they might not have made it onto the list yet if it hasn't been updated for a few weeks (no idea how often the CAA updates it). Perhaps give the school a call and ask them?

[BillieBob]

Standards Document 30 has not been updated since June. You will find that the dissemination of information is well down the CAA's list of priorities these days, along with all forms of customer service. If you are in any doubt about an ATO or RTF, just ask to see their Approval Certificate or Certificate of Registration or, in the case of a DTO, the letter of acknowledgement of their declaration and/or approval of their training programme.

[TheOddOne]

I'd be amazed if there are any entities who have submitted a Declaration and had it accepted yet. We're delving in to the process and when you read the EASA documents alongside the stuff from the CAA, it isn't as straightforward as you might think. Additionally, we're waiting for our preferred supplier to publish the LAPL training programme so we can submit it. Their rep. says it should be out soon, but we can't Declare until we have it.
As Billieob says, if they're not on the current list, then I'd be cautious about signing up. As ever NEVER NEVER pay for PPL training up-front. We won't accept money in advance any more, strictly pay-as-you go.

If they are an RTF, then they must have been operating since 2012, as I believe the CAA haven't accepted any new Registrations since then, only Approvals for ATOs.

TOO

[Wannabedriver]

Thank you for the responses, I didn't see the section regarding this on the CAA site. Both schools that I have been looking at are listed as DTO. I'm taking some comfort now based on your replies and I'll assume that the schools may have been RTF's but have recently transferred to DTO's and the respective lists have been amended.

TheOddOne - PAYG has been drilled into me!

[BillieBob]

I'll assume that the schools may have been RTF's but have recently transferred to DTO's and the respective lists have been amended.That would be a dangerous assumption. Neither Standards Document has been amended since the CAA began accepting declarations and so, if the schools were previously RTFs then they would still be listed as such in Standards Document 30.

I am aware of at least one organisation that has completed the process and is operating as a DTO but it was previously an ATO and so already had the training programmes in place.

[MrAverage]

Any more rumours about whether a DTO will be able to continue doing IMC/IRR or, better still, BIR?

[BillieBob]

The IMC Rating is nothing to do with EASA and its entry into EASA licences as an IR(R) is no more than an administrative fudge. There is no requirement for the IMC Rating course to be conducted within an ATO, an RTF or a DTO, nor for it to be approved and so there is nothing to prevent a DTO from conducting the training.

A DTO will not be able to conduct training for the BIR in the foreseeable future - Part DTO lists the training that is permitted at a DTO and will take at least 3 years to change. In any case, as any training provided by a UK training organisation after 29 March 2019 will not be accepted for the issue of an EASA licence, rating or certificate, it is unlikely that any training for the BIR will ever take place at any UK-based organisation.