Importance of training aircraft?

[Nurse2Pilot]

I wonder what the impact is of the aircraft used in training, if any? Would a pilot flying a PA-28 be any better than a pilot flying a C152? Is a Tecnam P2002JF a better training aircraft than the usual PA-28/C152/C172? Are glass cockpits better than gauges?

One reason I ask is because the schools I'm considering all use different aircraft. My local schools use PA-38s and PA-28s while another school I'm considering, Bartolini, uses P2002JFs. When talking to one of the local instructors, he mentioned he preferred training students in the PA-38 because not only is it cheaper to fly from the point of view of the student, he also said it is light and gets thrown around more and therefore requires more from the student pilot resulting in a better pilot after training. The PA-28, being heavier, is more stable so the student doesn't work as much and I assume that means his skills aren't as sharp. Any truth in this?

I also remember one of the points raised by the various other flight schools - they would always mention their "modern" fleet of aircraft, usually Tecnams, which felt like they were hinting that these new training aircraft were better than the usual PA-28/C152/C172 that seem to be the staple of other flight schools. So with all things being equal (instructor, student, weather, maintenance, etc.), does the aircraft have a significant impact on the learning and skill development of a student pilot?

[TryingToAvoidCBs]

It's a question that usually gets a very big 50:50 split.

Of course the schools will try and pursude you to fly there because of their "new modern glass cockpit aircraft" OR "we fly old school steam driven analogue gauge aircaft to make you a better pilot".
In the 21st century it makes sense to use something a little more modern, even the modern driving test requires you to use sat nav on the test.
The best people to ask are the airlines, they're the once who could probably give you statistics on how many people pass sim assessments and type ratings with the least problems and compare them to what type of training they had.

Personally, I have always argued that I prefer to learn on something a bit old and dated. Learn the hard way, then allow yourself to ease onto something easier once you know what you're doing. That way you learn proper hand flying skills whilst building a good scan. If you were teaching your child how to multiply, would you teach them their times tables, or give them calculator straight away?

[Bridgestone17]

Why not take it to the extreme and do a PPL on a tail wheeled aircraft as that will teach you excellent coordination! Then you can progress to a steam driven spam can for your CPL training such as a PA 28 and PA28R and then move on to an EFIS equipped multi such as a DA42. All options are covered then but seriously the most important aspect is the quality of instruction.

[MaverickPrime]

IMVHO, I think it’s very important to fly a light a/c with steam gauges at least for PPL level to get a good grasp of the basics of flight.

I remember talking to a delivery pilot who was delivering a phenom to Emirates Flight Training Academy. He observed that cadets who trained on glass cockpits did not really develop a good scan technique.

[Nurse2Pilot]

Thanks for the responses!

In the 21st century it makes sense to use something a little more modern, even the modern driving test requires you to use sat nav on the test.
The best people to ask are the airlines, they're the once who could probably give you statistics on how many people pass sim assessments and type ratings with the least problems and compare them to what type of training they had.
I'm guessing they don't use sat navs until later in the training? Like right near the end?

I'm also guessing the airlines don't have such data? What would make you think they would have this? If they did and there were significant findings, won't the feeder schools end up with a somewhat identical fleet of training aircraft?


Personally, I have always argued that I prefer to learn on something a bit old and dated. Learn the hard way, then allow yourself to ease onto something easier once you know what you're doing. That way you learn proper hand flying skills whilst building a good scan. If you were teaching your child how to multiply, would you teach them their times tables, or give them calculator straight away?Exactly! It's like learning to drive in a manual transmission vehicle and then finding it easy to drive an automatic. I prefer to learn this way rather than learn on an automatic and then be totally lost once I get into a manual transmission vehicle. However, would the PA-38 not be classified as old and dated alongside the PA-28/C152/C172? So again, I return to my original question.... all things being equal, would there be any difference in the skillset of a student pilot based on what aircraft was used for the training?


Why not take it to the extreme and do a PPL on a tail wheeled aircraft as that will teach you excellent coordination! Then you can progress to a steam driven spam can for your CPL training such as a PA 28 and PA28R and then move on to an EFIS equipped multi such as a DA42. All options are covered then but seriously the most important aspect is the quality of instruction.Another vote for tail-draggers? What is it about taildraggers that makes them "special"? Aren't they similar to tricycle-gear setups once you're in the air? I do like the the step up from steam to EFIS though!

[Hawker400]

Without getting into the whole making a better pilot argument, chances are you will never fly these old airplanes after your ppl. And if you never flown them before you will definitely not want to either. They are fun and that's what initial training should be. When I search for my ppl school they are almost all modernized but I still have an old aero-boero picture that's not around anymore from my Solo and first navigation. That's not around anymore but I'd love to fly it again for old times sake.

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[jamesgrainge]

You don't use sat navs at all at any point in your PPL. Not in the normal syllabus at least.

[Nurse2Pilot]

Still don't get how taildraggers are special or fun. Are we talking about in the air or on the ground? Don't they fly just like tricycle-gear aircraft once airborne?

[parkfell]

What you must learn in basic flying training are the BASIC SKILLS.
It is critical that you are well taught,, and learn how to select the required attitude and TRIM.
These are the fundamental skills that any pilot must acquire, and even more importantly for an aspirating professional pilot.

The PA28 is one of the ideal aircraft to develop these basic skills, for both visual and instrument flying. Yes somewhat dated, but the 6 round dials teach you the fundamentals of IF. It develops your capacity and situational awareness.
Once the basics have been mastered, then flying something more exotic is a piece of cake.
There are no short cuts, no instant fixes. The analogy is the process of OSMOSIS.
So having completed the CPL / IR skill tests, then a full glass cockpit for the MCC/JOC / APS is good preparation from the TYPE rating course.

[Nurse2Pilot]

What you must learn in basic flying training are the BASIC SKILLS.
It is critical that you are well taught,, and learn how to select the required attitude and TRIM.
These are the fundamental skills that any pilot must acquire, and even more importantly for an aspirating professional pilot.
Thanks for that parkfell! However, what you state above is dependent on school and instructor quality and not really the aircraft used in training, yes?

The PA28 is one of the ideal aircraft to develop these basic skills, for both visual and instrument flying. Yes somewhat dated, but the 6 round dials teach you the fundamentals of IF. It develops your capacity and situational awareness.
As opposed to the PA-38? Or C152? Or C172? Don't all these have the 6 dials too?

[parkfell]

The TRIMMER on the PA38 is a bit Micky Mouse. A spring loaded device. The PA28 system is far superior. I have taught on both types.
Take your choice between HIGH or LOW wing.

[tescoapp]

The trimmer on the PA38 is one of the few things I do criticise on the PA38. Its a stupid way of trimming an aircraft why they couldn't have put in a trim tab arrangement I don't know.

[parkfell]

PA38 -TRIMMER ~ cheaper option.....?

Another PA38 issue can be the weight & balance result despite only having two seats.
Probably an easier aircraft to achieve first solo compared to a PA28?

Having said that, the PA28-160 is probably overall a better platform for the initial basic phase of training despite costing more to operate.