USAF Out of Ideas

[bafanguy]

Looks like the USAF has run out of ideas to retain pilots. So, they've turned to amorphous HR gibberish to describe the issue and propose a "solution"...based on...gibberish. "...work beyond the fringes of the problem.“ ? Really ?:

“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”

“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”

“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“

https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/09/23/warrant-officer-study-misses-the-mark/

[westhawk]

Well good luck with that Air Force! Maybe if you create a synergistic value-added metric for corporate double-speak moving forward....

Or you can just admit that pilots don't join up to fly a desk.

[rudestuff]

Don't they have a minimum term of service?!

[bafanguy]

Don't they have a minimum term of service?!

IIUC, 10 years after getting their wings so ~12 years start to finish...for active duty. Not sure how guard and reserves work.

[ethicalconundrum]

If this is their option, I have an alternative. Simply extend the WO program up past CW4 to CW6 or CW7. This would address both issues. First, the monetary problem of being maxed out in pay at the equiv of a Major, but extending the non-careerist pilot up into the similar pay grade as full Col, or BG. Second for those who truly do want the management career, it will open up more slots for them to work into commander positions.

I had a crew chief back in the day who was in his 30s and was a Spec-7. He got promoted to Spec-8 while I was with him, and was hoping for Spec-9 before retirement. Not the exact same thing, but from a pilot side, works for me.

[bafanguy]

rudestuff touched on an aspect that crossed my mind a time or two: length of service for pilots.

Of course, my opinion is worth what you paid for it (maybe even less) but we often hear that the cost of flight training is prohibitive and a barrier to a pilot career for many.

I wonder if they shortened the commitment to 5 or 6 years if they'd get more takers. I'm pretty sure it used to be 5 years and I'm not sure when they upped it to wings + 10.

Of course, the USAF will say (and have said) that's too short to get people fully trained for some types of flying...but they did it before...so why not now ?

If people wouldn't have to make such a long commitment before they were able move on to a civilian flying career, more people might be interested. Just a thought...

[zondaracer]

A decade ago during the economic crisis, when I was in the Air Force, there were many pilots who said that they would never work for the airlines. Many opted to stay for 20 years or beyond, and quite a few looked for government jobs or contract jobs, often times outside of flying after their stint in the Air Force. Now that market forces have changed, and the airlines look appealing, the Air Force QOL just does not match. Those same airline naysayers are at the airlines. I am not sure that the Air Force could do much apart from offer flying only tracks, more pay, more days off and QOL improvements, but they really can't compete with the QOL and money that a major airline career now offers in the US. Another economic downturn could change things overnight though.

[ItnStln]

IIUC, 10 years after getting their wings so ~12 years start to finish...for active duty. Not sure how guard and reserves work.
They’re also 10 years after getting their wings.

[Um... lifting...]

QOL is an enormous factor.

The finest tent technology, telecommunications setups, and ersatz American kitsch at an overseas base doesn't overcome the simple geographical fact that you're in the sandbox and your family is stateside.

The airline life is simply superior for these pilots.

Also, paying a drone operator is cheaper.

[bafanguy]

The Navy is taking a run at the attrition problem:

https://www.aviationpros.com/news/12433330/new-career-path-for-navy-pilots-aims-to-curb-retention-crisis

[bafanguy]

Well, the money idea isn't working all that well:

“Mobility pilots are declining aviation retention bonuses in alarming numbers, despite the the Air Force’s attempt to keep them in uniform with an infusion of cash.”


https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/12/10/alarming-number-of-mobility-pilots-decline-bonuses-to-keep-flying-overall-bonus-take-rates-tick-up-slightly/

[A Squared]

Looks like the USAF has run out of ideas to retain pilots. So, they've turned to amorphous HR gibberish to describe the issue and propose a "solution"...based on...gibberish. "...work beyond the fringes of the problem.“ ? Really ?:

“Any solution to the pilot retention problem needs to focus on morale, not money.”

“Rand evidently views the personnel system as a challenge too daunting to tackle.”

“It is time for the Air Force to work beyond the fringes of the problem.“

https://www.airforcetimes.com/opinion/commentary/2018/09/23/warrant-officer-study-misses-the-mark/

In fairness, it should be pointed out that the article you quoted is an opinion of one single air force officer who does not seem to be commenting in any official capacity, so his opinions aren't necessarily the stance of the Air Force.

[bafanguy]

...it should be pointed out that the article you quoted is an opinion of one single air force officer who does not seem to be commenting in any official capacity...

AxA,

Yep, I guess you're right about that. However, the retention stats appearing in quite a few articles on the subject (and coming from USAF sources) appear to support the allegation that the retention efforts are falling short.

If lifestyle changes are enough to stem the manpower loss, that remains to be seen...if such changes are made or even can be made. A major airline career is a real siren song.

[A Squared]

AxA,

Yep, I guess you're right about that. However, the retention stats appearing in quite a few articles on the subject (and coming from USAF sources) appear to support the allegation that the retention efforts are falling short.

No argument that whatever they're doing, doesn't seem to be fixing the problem.

[bafanguy]

They're hangin' in there...giving it the old college try:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/12/21/to-keep-pilots-from-leaving-air-mobility-command-aims-to-get-them-back-in-the-air/

[megan]

They could try by opening up the cockpit to folks with only high school education, rather than the degree currently required. It does work, my course (foreigner) did their training with the USN in Pensacola, all only had a high school education, at least one had just finished high school upon entry, and quite a number received the "Student of the Week" award. One went on some years later, with his high school education, to successfully complete the USN test pilot course at Pax River. Of the forty or so students involved no one failed, one dropped out voluntarily and one given the heave ho due personal issues with our national senior officer. Lad refused to give up his off duty skydiving activities.

[zondaracer]

They could try by opening up the cockpit to folks with only high school education, rather than the degree currently required. It does work, my course (foreigner) did their training with the USN in Pensacola, all only had a high school education, at least one had just finished high school upon entry, and quite a number received the "Student of the Week" award. One went on some years later, with his high school education, to successfully complete the USN test pilot course at Pax River. Of the forty or so students involved no one failed, one dropped out voluntarily and one given the heave ho due personal issues with our national senior officer. Lad refused to give up his off duty skydiving activities.
Nobody is doubting that someone could make it through UPT without a college degree. This has already been discussed and the conclusion is that the wage gap between an officer and a warrant officer is significant enough that a warrant officer would have even more incentive to leave the military and go fly for the airlines.

Right now, the problem is keeping talented officers in the military who are already rated pilots. I think that only an economic downturn combined with airline hiring coming to a halt could save the USAF staffing problem. I remember back in 2009, many Air Force Pilots were saying that they would never work for the airlines and that they would rather do a government job or a contractor job after retiring. Conditions have changed and people see the different in QOL and $$$.

[megan]

Not suggesting they be WO's, saying remove the requirement for a degree so they cast a wider net. You don't need a degree to occupy a cockpit, it's jokingly said in airline conversation all you need to know maths wise is your three times table. Young lad I know in the Navy just graduated with his wings, high school education, dux of his course, and given the offer to swap to the Air Force with the promise of F-18 if he does as an inducement, but he wants to fly choppers, so staying Navy. Flown with many a high school educated US Army WO and only one out of the lot I would have torn the wings from, needed to have the fact that Daddy was a Colonel knocked out of him.

[bafanguy]

Not suggesting they be WO's, saying remove the requirement for a degree so they cast a wider net.

megan,

Sometime in recent memory, the USAF explored this idea by running a handful of enlisted through UPT as some kind of experiment; it was reported in one of the Air Force Times articles. Then IIRC, decided against doing that as a solution to their headhunting woes. If they don't intend doing more of that, why do it in the first place ?

[zondaracer]

Megan, are you saying that the Air Force should remove the university degree requirement for officers who fly? That will never happen.

[ItnStln]

I remember back in 2009, many Air Force Pilots were saying that they would never work for the airlines
That’s no longer true from what I hear.

[A Squared]

That’s no longer true from what I hear.

You don't say ...

[Sailvi767]

They are not having recruiting issues. They are having issues retaining pilots. Getting a pilot slot is still very competitive so why would you lower the standards.

[bafanguy]

They are not having recruiting issues. They are having issues retaining pilots.

Yep, the retention rate is a problem so they have to recruit and train quite a few. They've said they're increasing the training capacity but aren't where they need to be. The quoted numbers are in some of the Air Force Times articles. I think they said they're up to training 1100/year but need to have 1400/yr...or something like that. If I weren't so lazy, I'd go back through the articles and find the quotes.

Retention and recruiting are two sides of the same coin: proper size of the USAF pilot group.

[rigpiggy]

I know it could be contrary tothe service, however moving a guy with a family every 6 months-2 years would be hard on a marriage, and kids. Maybe shorter tdy's, and guaranteed stays in a base would help

[Airbubba]

Young lad I know in the Navy just graduated with his wings, high school education, dux of his course, and given the offer to swap to the Air Force with the promise of F-18 if he does as an inducement, but he wants to fly choppers, so staying Navy.

I don't think the U.S. Navy has given anyone without a four-year degree aviator wings for decades now. He was promised F-18's if he would switch to the Air Force? Somehow, I have to wipe my shoes after hearing this one... ;)

[zondaracer]

I don't think the U.S. Navy has given anyone without a four-year degree aviator wings for decades now. He was promised F-18's if he would switch to the Air Force? Somehow, I have to wipe my shoes after hearing this one... ;)
Must have been a foreign military. Looking at Megan’s use of English, and referencing Air Force F-18s, my guess is Australia.

[Airbubba]

Must have been a foreign military. Looking at Megan’s use of English, and referencing Air Force F-18s, my guess is Australia.

OK, thanks, that makes more sense. :ok:

[megan]

Australia it is.

[Airbubba]

Australia it is.

Thanks again, and I was wrong about decades since the USN gave aviator wings without a four-year degree. It appears that a little over a decade ago a few Chief Warrant Officers were designated with two-year degrees in a short-lived program that was terminated when the world economy tanked and retention improved.

[megan]

One point of view, USAF is the only US service I've not worked with, so can't comment.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/04/24/a-navy-pilots-take-the-air-force-doesnt-have-a-pilot-crisis-it-has-a-leadership-crisis/

Counter view.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/04/whats-driving-the-u-s-air-force-pilot-shortage/

[Sailvi767]

Yep, the retention rate is a problem so they have to recruit and train quite a few. They've said they're increasing the training capacity but aren't where they need to be. The quoted numbers are in some of the Air Force Times articles. I think they said they're up to training 1100/year but need to have 1400/yr...or something like that. If I weren't so lazy, I'd go back through the articles and find the quotes.

Retention and recruiting are two sides of the same coin: proper size of the USAF pilot group.

The issue is still not recruiting. It’s the constraints of how many pilots the pipeline can produce. They are having zero issues putting pilots into the pipeline. The pipeline needs to be bigger.

[Sailvi767]

Not suggesting they be WO's, saying remove the requirement for a degree so they cast a wider net. You don't need a degree to occupy a cockpit, it's jokingly said in airline conversation all you need to know maths wise is your three times table. Young lad I know in the Navy just graduated with his wings, high school education, dux of his course, and given the offer to swap to the Air Force with the promise of F-18 if he does as an inducement, but he wants to fly choppers, so staying Navy. Flown with many a high school educated US Army WO and only one out of the lot I would have torn the wings from, needed to have the fact that Daddy was a Colonel knocked out of him.

Not sure where your story came from but it’s wrong. The Navy is not putting non college graduates in flight school. If he has a degree and just got his wings he would have been in the Helo pipeline and is not qualified for fighters. He would need to go through the entire jet pipeline first. Last point is the AirForce does not have any F-18’s.

[zondaracer]

Not sure where your story came from but it’s wrong. The Navy is not putting non college graduates in flight school. If he has a degree and just got his wings he would have been in the Helo pipeline and is not qualified for fighters. He would need to go through the entire jet pipeline first. Last point is the AirForce does not have any F-18’s.
He was referring to the Royal Australian Air Force.

[bafanguy]

The issue is still not recruiting. It’s the constraints of how many pilots the pipeline can produce. They are having zero issues putting pilots into the pipeline. The pipeline needs to be bigger.

Yep...no dispute there. And they're trying to do that:

“Last September, Air Education and Training Command head Lt. Gen. Darryl Roberson said that the Air Force hoped to increase the pilot training pipeline to 1,400 within a few years. But, he warned, even maxing out pilot production capacity at 1,400 wouldn’t be enough, and the Air Force needed to train 1,600 new pilots annually.”

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/02/13/air-force-2019-budget-will-grow-pilot-training-pipeline-as-service-fights-severe-shortage/

[misd-agin]

Australia it is.

Locations says "N/A" so it must be northern Australia.

[mateuszb]

Out of curiosity, is there a current "best" option for someone looking to earn a military pilot slot? (Chance of getting a slot, maximum flying time, etc.)

[bafanguy]

Out of curiosity, is there a current "best" option for someone looking to earn a military pilot slot? (Chance of getting a slot, maximum flying time, etc.)

A more US-centric website might get more replies to your good question. Try these guys. Generally civilized:

https://forums.jetcareers.com/forums/military-pilots.11/

[Easy Peasy]

Australia has an Airforce? 😜

[zondaracer]

Out of curiosity, is there a current "best" option for someone looking to earn a military pilot slot? (Chance of getting a slot, maximum flying time, etc.)
Air National Guard is probably the best, or else the Air Force Reserve.

[bafanguy]

Out of curiosity, is there a current "best" option for someone looking to earn a military pilot slot? (Chance of getting a slot, maximum flying time, etc.)

Might be some info here too. See "The military paths":

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/career-questions/118827-how-become-airline-pilot.html#post2733299

[flensr]

Don't they have a minimum term of service?!

They do, except that in spite of the shortage, the antiquated promotion system forces them to either kick out pilots or offer early separation if any particular year group exceeds a target size.

Part of the solution is to completely throw out the entire concept of promotion "zones", and also quit pre-selecting O-5s and O-6s 10+ years prior based on DP to O-4 and/or in-residence school slots. The air university and AFPC promotion boards already got busted (finally!) for pre-selecting O-5s with the SOS DG designation, but they merely tweaked a few things instead of eliminating the inherent problem in the system that discards 80% of the officers in their first 7-10 years of service as being forever B-team. As if those officers can't possibly offer anything beyond 14 years of service and will never learn anything about leadership after their SOS instructor or third-ever commander decides that they shouldn't do ACSC in residence.

Offer a realistic career growth path for all officers instead of one-shot in the zone make or break points, and I think many more officers would choose to remain in. The reserves will happily promote a qualified 20-year O-4 to fill an open O-5 billet in a flying squadron, so why is the active force so stuck on stupid that they can't do the same thing?

In the same 3 year stretch at Sheppard AFB, I saw retired O-5s get returned to active duty, O-4s get RIFd, and a reserve squadron put 7 23-year O-4s into leadership positions in order to get them promoted to O-5 before they got kicked out at 24 years. There is something very badly wrong/stupid at AFPC when that kind of stupidity not only happened, but is STILL happening while they whine about "shortages". Eliminate the promotion zone and chuck out the year-group waterfall charts that forces RIFs when there are shortages in other year groups, and half the problem goes away without a single dime spent on ineffective bonuses.

[flensr]

Out of curiosity, is there a current "best" option for someone looking to earn a military pilot slot? (Chance of getting a slot, maximum flying time, etc.)

USAF Academy. Hands down the highest percentage chance of getting to pilot training after graduation. Nothing else comes even remotely close, running the numbers.

One thing people don't realize is that you can keep applying to the Academies until age 22 or 23, and multiple applications while succeeding in ANY college program shows that you really want to attend AND graduate, which can make the difference between acceptance and rejection. If you want to go to a service academy, tell your nomination source (House representative usually) that you intend to apply every year until you're too old, and then you plan on applying for both admission and the required age waiver. Then every year while you're applying, work to pad your application with activities. Anything with a leadership role. Sports. Aviation clubs. Volunteer activites. ANYTHING that shows dedication to a military service career. I think you can even already have a college degree and still go, although I'm not 100% certain about that. I do know that you can get accepted to the academies even if you have a few years of college completed already, since it improves the chances that you'll actually complete the program and graduate.

Of course, you need to consider the 30%-ish washout/dropout rate at the Academy prior to graduation, and the 50%-85% UPT selection rate for graduates depending on whim of the AF. But it's STILL the best odds of getting a pilot slot, even when UPT numbers are cut back. In 1993/1994, 225 USAF academy grads out of approx 800 medically qualified new 2Lts went to UPT. In those years for ROTC - 50 graduates from the entire nation got UPT slots and I don't know if there were any OCS grads accepted to UPT for those years. I was one of those 225, damn glad I went to USAFA instead of ROTC because there's no way in hell I would have been competitive for one of those 50 nationwide UPT slots.

No question, USAFA is the best odds of getting a pilot slot, and you can keep applying until you hit the age limit and each time you apply you'll just look better and better to the admissions board. And don't forget to butter up the nomination source. There is usually a staffer in charge of managing the academy nominations, and you need to get well acquainted with that person so you can impress on them your unwavering intent to keep applying every single year until they say you can't even apply anymore, because that's how much you want to be a USAF officer.

Another tip - Get good enough at an NCAA sport that an Academy coach will blue chip you. Live on the west coast? Do some swimming or learn water polo, play on a community college team. That can help in a BIG way and some teams are chronically short so they'll blue chip almost anyone who has a legit claim at varsity skills or previous collegiate sports experience. All it takes is one phone call to the coach's office to see if they need you or not, and you don't have to limit yourself to one sport either. You never know what might make the difference and making the effort to check can pay off huge.

[flensr]

Australia has an Airforce? 😜

Yea, and they're smart enough to keep buying the best front-line equipment too :) Super Hornets, C-17s, etc etc. They have newer stuff than the USAF and USN does and while like everyone else they're gonna eventually get the F-35, they didn't buy into the "stealth or nothing" hype so they've got new aircraft on the ramp while US fighters literally fall apart inflight.

[bafanguy]

Well, I guess it's at least something:

Last May, the service announced a major expansion of the VRRAD program, and said as many as 1,000 recently retired officers could return.

But far fewer retirees have applied, according to statistics provided by the Air Force. Of the 125 total applicants, 50 are pilots.

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/01/10/125-retired-pilots-other-rated-officers-apply-to-return-to-air-force-to-lend-a-hand/

[bafanguy]

Get 'em while they're young:

"the program is 'an inclusive' "

"increased diversity"

"in a holistic manner (i.e., beyond aviation knowledge)"


"character development"


Pipistrel Alpha To Play Key Role In USAF Training Program | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=dc64208d-d4e5-4c93-a11f-81f69d982ca6)

[felixthecat]

Needing a degree level education to be a pilot...... many other nations worldwide have very successful pilots without degrees. I would go as far as saying a pilot with a degree is probably over qualified!

[Lookleft]

"Australia has an Airforce?"

Its New Zealand that you are thinking of with that comment.

[Catwalk Dweller]

ethicalconundrum, the USAF doesn't have any WOs - the last one retired back sometime in the early 80s while I was still on active duty.

WOs are a good idea though, I think, which probably ensures that they will never return . . .

[jugofpropwash]

Needing a degree level education to be a pilot...... many other nations worldwide have very successful pilots without degrees. I would go as far as saying a pilot with a degree is probably over qualified!

It would actually make sense to not require a degree.

First, if a pilot has a degree, then they're going to have more employment opportunities than someone who doesn't, and they'll be less likely to remain in the military.

Second, if you grab a kid fresh out of high school, he (or she) is much less likely to have a family than someone four years older. If they don't have a spouse and kids to drag around the world/be away from for extended periods, then they're more likely to stay in.

[bafanguy]

Problem solved:

Air Force Believes It Has Pilot Shortage Under Control | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=1d32eb4c-926b-4c7b-b3e5-a7b4fe0c0dff)

[A Squared]

Problem solved:

Air Force Believes It Has Pilot Shortage Under Control | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=1d32eb4c-926b-4c7b-b3e5-a7b4fe0c0dff)


Alrighty then, guess you can delete this thread now ... ;)

[havick]

Problem solved:

Air Force Believes It Has Pilot Shortage Under Control | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=1d32eb4c-926b-4c7b-b3e5-a7b4fe0c0dff)

looks like they’re counting their chickens before the airline retirements have hatched.

[bafanguy]

looks like they’re counting their chickens before the airline retirements have hatched.

I was just being a wise guy. :)

[zondaracer]

Someone needed an OPR bullet.

[A Squared]

I was just being a wise guy. :)

Is that allowed here?

[bafanguy]

Interesting DoD report on pilot supply across services. Twenty seven pages might be more than you'd care to read but the Executive Summary will give you the gist which has been touched on in previous reports:

From the Executive Summary:

"The Department of Defense (DoD)now faces a pilot shortfall in excess of 3,000 pilots, which has been several years in the making. While the severity and dynamic of the shortfall varies among the Military Services, all Services are experiencing pilot shortfalls due to several years of underproduction in pilot training and reduced aircraft readiness. These shortfalls have been exacerbated by higher than average attrition among experienced aviators."

From the Conclusion:

"While the Military Services continue to mitigate current shortfalls, the Department simply cannot afford to continue losing experienced pilots at the current rate."

https://prhome.defense.gov/Portals/52/Documents/Report%20to%20Congress%20on%20Initiatives%20for%20Mitigating %20Military%20Pilot%20Shortfalls%20cleared%20for%20public%20 release.pdf

[bafanguy]

An update on military pilot supply. Looks like they've still got their work cut out for them.

Navy

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/navy/2019/04/navys-pilot-shortage-may-be-shored-up-by-2023-but-then-the-real-challenge-begins/


Air Force

https://federalnewsnetwork.com/dod-personnel-notebook/2019/04/new-study-shows-grim-outlook-for-future-of-air-force-pilot-shortage/

[bafanguy]

Not making all that much headway apparently:

"Top Air Force leaders have said since at least 2017 that they were facing a roughly 2,000-pilot shortfall (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/19/the-air-force-is-throwing-money-at-pilots-to-stay-fewer-and-fewer-are-interested/?utm_expid=.jFR93cgdTFyMrWXdYEtvgA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F#jwvideo), indicating the situation has not improved (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/09/17/how-the-air-force-is-scrambling-to-head-off-an-exodus-of-fighter-pilots/?utm_expid=.jFR93cgdTFyMrWXdYEtvgA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F#jwvideo) — and in fact, may have gotten a little worse."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/03/04/air-force-no-progress-in-closing-pilot-shortfall/

[Neufunk]

required age waiver
iirc there is no such thing. You must not be 27 by the 1st of July the year you graduate. No waivers as it is in the Constitution.

The problem is not that there aren't enough candidates for UPT. The problem is that the Air Force is bleeding trained pilots who go on to make way more money flying for the airlines. WOs or enlisted pilots who will earn even less are even more likely to run away after getting some flight time.

[A Squared]

iirc there is no such thing. You must not be 27 by the 1st of July the year you graduate. No waivers as it is in the Constitution.

None of the US military Academies are even mentioned in the Constitution, let alone specifying age limits.

[A Squared]

Not making all that much headway apparently:

"Top Air Force leaders have said since at least 2017 that they were facing a roughly 2,000-pilot shortfall (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2017/11/19/the-air-force-is-throwing-money-at-pilots-to-stay-fewer-and-fewer-are-interested/?utm_expid=.jFR93cgdTFyMrWXdYEtvgA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F#jwvideo), indicating the situation has not improved (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2016/09/17/how-the-air-force-is-scrambling-to-head-off-an-exodus-of-fighter-pilots/?utm_expid=.jFR93cgdTFyMrWXdYEtvgA.1&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F#jwvideo) — and in fact, may have gotten a little worse."

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/03/04/air-force-no-progress-in-closing-pilot-shortfall/


Wait ... back in August, they said they had it under control ... now they don't? I'm so confused.

[Neufunk]

Might've got my sources wrong.

Anyway, I know that the age-restriction is pretty much unwaiverable except for some extremely rare prior-enlisted cases.

[LTCTerry]

Maybe the USAF needs a pilot officer program. Recruit 18 year olds out of high school. (I believe the Israelis start flight school at 18.) You can have a year of higher level math and science training, 40 hours of flight school, etc. over a 12-month period. Successful candidates go to flight school as Pilot Officers and get commissioned upon graduation/wings. Then, after several years of flying they can be offered a chance to complete a degree. Without a degree they are not desirable for the airlines. Generally only about half a degree is required for a commission.

The Navy Reserve does a very good job of integrating Reservists into active duty squadrons - so I've been told, no first-hand knowledge. The USAF's reserve component flies almost all the tanker missions. Perhaps a longer reserve commitment would keep people around. They can fly a few days a month. The Air National Guard once had an advertisement with the claim they flew 40% as much as the USAF at 10% of the cost. That's only because the AF provides the schools, the airplanes, and the broader infrastructure, but there's merit.

I disagree with the "up or out" policy we have w/in DoD. Some Army Captains are great company commanders, but no cut out to be the Ops Officer for a battalion. Let someone do a career as a captain. Change the retirement system. Sometimes you need crazy ideas if you want radical changes.

[A Squared]

Without a degree they are not desirable for the airlines.

Not having a degree isn't much of an impediment for an airline job these days.

[bafanguy]

Not having a degree isn't much of an impediment for an airline job these days.

AxA,

And one might even postulate that it's an advantage at some levels. There are a couple of pretty good LCCs here that are allegedly very touchy about being used as a steppingstone to the legacies. If the legacies continue to be unwilling to forego the degree requirement, a person without one might look like more of a long term prospect as an employee at a LCC.

Just a theory...

[A Squared]

AxA,

And one might even postulate that it's an advantage at some levels. There are a couple of pretty good LCCs here that are allegedly very touchy about being used as a steppingstone to the legacies. If the legacies continue to be unwilling to forego the degree requirement, a person without one might look like more of a long term prospect as an employee at a LCC.

Just a theory...

Yeah, probably some truth to that.

[bafanguy]

Well, it appears the military pilot deficit has been solved...probably for several years. I suspect people are trying to get back in.

[A Squared]

Well, it appears the military pilot deficit has been solved...probably for several years. I suspect people are trying to get back in.

Yeah, was just following a conversation on this elsewhere. You know that somewhere, someone is going to be saying *look, the stuff we did to improve retention is working !!!! "

[bafanguy]

Yeah, was just following a conversation on this elsewhere. You know that somewhere, someone is going to be saying *look, the stuff we did to improve retention is working !!!! "
AxA,

Yep. Chairman Barack's Myrmidon-in-Chief, Rahm Emmanuel, famously said:

“President Obama’s chief of staff Rahm Emanuel famously said in 2008, ‘You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. I mean, it’s an opportunity to do things that you think you could not do before.’”

The application of this principle is utilitarian and universal. Sometimes we get to laugh but mostly we don't.

https://www.lexingtonchronicle.com/business/never-let-crisis-go-waste

[bafanguy]

Looks like the USAF has come up with a new idea:

https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-air-force-considers-ways-to-recruit-commercial-pilots/138945.article

[bafanguy]

Air Force needs some more ideas:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/06/26/air-force-doesnt-have-enough-drone-pilots-or-sensor-operators-gao-says/

[bafanguy]

I suppose everyone is having to guess these days :

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/officers-say-air-force-need-outside-help-to-keep-pilots/

[bafanguy]

Seems nothing has changed:

https://ibb.co/xX7QV8k

[bafanguy]

The USAF has a new program to streamline the route to a pilot position:

https://www.jsfirm.com/job/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Civil+Path+to+Wings/Fairview+Heights-Illinois/jobID_901669


https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2537201/accelerated-path-to-wings-pilot-training-makes-history/

[bafanguy]

Not much has changed apparently:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2023/03/03/perennial-pilot-shortage-puts-air-force-in-precarious-position/