View Full Version : 56 Sqn July (?) 1940
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/56_sqn_july_1940_d432dec4d3ac060161384e69bf6838a8cd1031b2.jp g
The Pilot on the far right is Peter Robinson, who joined 56 Sqn in late July 1940, and was killed on 17 June 1941. The picture belongs to a great friend, F/Sgt Robinson's nephew. I'm intrigued by the black/white underwing camo, which I thought was replaced by duck-egg blue straight after the Battle of France. I wondered if any of you wise wizards could confirm that this is 56 Sqn, and hazard a guess at when the photo was taken. It's possible that it is at an OCU prior to Squadron deployment.
Also, any other names to faces would be fascinating. Thanks for any help - and apologies if the picture is over-size; I'm not sure how to correct that...
MPN11
24th Sep 2018, 18:06
According to Michael Bowyer's "Fighting Colours", the black/white started be phased out for fighters by end-May 40. However, he also notes that battle-damaged a/c could come back from repair still wearing B/W. It was apparently Feb 41 when the Black was to be removed [presumably at your leisure, there's a War on!!] except for Westland Whirlwinds. "Duck Egg" then took over for general use in UK.
If that photo is an OCU, anything could probably happen until someone had time/effort/equipment to repaint things.
sycamore
24th Sep 2018, 18:39
Photo is reversed,,prop is going wrong way , and white underside should be on opposite side...for a Hurricane...
MPN11
24th Sep 2018, 19:00
Photo is reversed,,prop is going wrong way , and white underside should be on opposite side...for a Hurricane...
Well spotted :ok:
Likewise Brevet on 2nd left.
The plt off's braid looks OK, though.
GeeRam
24th Sep 2018, 19:26
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/56_sqn_july_1940_d432dec4d3ac060161384e69bf6838a8cd1031b2.jp g
The Pilot on the far right is Peter Robinson, who joined 56 Sqn in late July 1940, and was killed on 17 June 1941. The picture belongs to a great friend, F/Sgt Robinson's nephew. I'm intrigued by the black/white underwing camo, which I thought was replaced by duck-egg blue straight after the Battle of France. I wondered if any of you wise wizards could confirm that this is 56 Sqn, and hazard a guess at when the photo was taken.
Photo likely taken Dec 1940- March 1941, as the black/white undersides returned briefly for the winter of 40/41 (specifically between the dates of Nov 27th 1940 to April 7th 1941)
Perhaps the most famous aircraft to be seen back in the return of the black/white undersides during this time was Bob Stanford-Tuck's Hurricane DT-A of 257 Sqn.
Thank you, all. Very interesting and acute observations. Robinson's nephew said that the photo was taken just after his uncle was promoted to an officer, and that within weeks almost everyone in the photo was gone. According to Aircrew Remembered he was commissioned on 5 June, so I guess it's just possible this photo was taken with the last of the 'black and white' aircraft...
Davef68
25th Sep 2018, 10:17
The black was re-introduced only on the wing undersides in late 1940
Rallye Driver
25th Sep 2018, 14:37
The short pilot in the centre is Edward 'Jumbo' Gracie, who was B Flight commander. The Flight also had sky spinners rather than black ones. Geoffrey Page was also in B Flight. He joined the Squadron on 6 June and was shot down and badly burned on 12 August, but is not visible in the picture, which may help to tie down the timespan.
RD
sycamore
25th Sep 2018, 18:11
There is someone hiding between 6-7 from left,as there is a hand/fingers holding the prop....
MPN11
25th Sep 2018, 18:55
no. 6 just has long arms, and needs support.
Fareastdriver
25th Sep 2018, 19:19
He must have long arms because from this side it's a left hand above a right shoulder.
MPN11
25th Sep 2018, 19:55
An early example of Rabbit Ears, perhaps?
Well done, Watson.
Lordflasheart
25th Sep 2018, 20:52
Photo is reversed,,prop is going wrong way
Likewise Brevet on 2nd left.
They all appear to be wearing the 1941 Pattern Mae West, which should have the oral inflation tube on the left breast. However, I have no idea when the '1941 Pattern' actually began replacing the '1932 Pattern.'
LFH
Edit - Disregard - Not 1941 Pattern after all. See GeeRam's post below
...........
GeeRam
26th Sep 2018, 07:48
They all appear to be wearing the 1941 Pattern Mae West, which should have the oral inflation tube on the left breast. However, I have no idea when the '1941 Pattern' actually began replacing the '1932 Pattern.'
.
'41 Patt wasn't introduced until July 1941, so I'm pretty sure they are all '32 Patt, bearing in mind that we already know the photo has been reversed.
Compare with this well known photo of a war weary Brian Lane taken during the BoB wearing a 32 Patt.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x169/sandy_lane_300x169_d6024e0c8ffe3e6141ce1f9d43797773360036ff. jpg
sycamore
26th Sep 2018, 10:12
MPN11, perhaps he`s a Nav...!
Lordflasheart
26th Sep 2018, 11:14
'41 Patt wasn't introduced until July 1941, so I'm pretty sure they are all '32 Patt,
On closer examination, I do believe you're right, GeeRam. Thank you for the correction. LFH.
.........
radar101
26th Sep 2018, 21:25
I kept the 56(R) Sqn Archives for a while up to 2011 when I retired. Yes the photo is back to front. The following is the best guess as to the personnel .
L to R Sgt PEM Robinson; Sgt P Hillwood; Plt Off J J Himr, Plt Off B J Wicks; Fg Off I B Westmacott; Sgt Myall; Flt Lt E J Gracie; Plt Off G G Bailey; Plt Off M Constable Maxwell; Plt Off Wyatt; Sgt Norman Doniger; “Tommy” Guest; Plt Off RFFG Malengreau; Plt Off F W Higginson; Sqn Ldr H M Pinfold (OC 56)
Taffy Higginson was commissioned on 24 Sep 1940, Jumbo Gracie was posted on 7 Jan 1941 so your window is late 1940. Innes Westmacott looks as if he has recovered from the burns received at the end of Aug and Malengreau joined the sqn on 8 Dec so my guess is mid/late Dec 1940.
Radar101
Thank, you, all - and Radar101, that's excellent information. A Christmas Day squadron photo, maybe...
I wonder why it was printed in reverse. The photo is a framed print, so I can't see if there's anything written on the back. But it seems contemporary. I guess the lads had other things to worry about than that someone in the gun-camera processing lab had misprinted their souvenir snap.
radar101
27th Sep 2018, 10:28
The copy we had was printed the correct way round - as is the one in "What if the heaven's Fall" a memoire by Eric Clayton about his early days as a fitter with 56