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View Full Version : Tesco take on Aldi and Lidl


ZeBedie
20th Sep 2018, 10:23
Will it work?

https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jacks-tesco/

funfly
20th Sep 2018, 12:49
We, the general public, will get cheaper food but of inferior quality because supermarkets keep their prices low by pushing the providers for lower prices - the farmers suffer.
A larger operation will have that much more 'buying' power on their suppliers.
I read today that the two chief execs of the (government owned) Post Office have had enormous pay rises and bonuses because of the massive profits the Post Office has achieved. In their report however they admit that the large profits were mainly due to the reduction in allowances given to local post office operators.
It's the same old story.

G-CPTN
20th Sep 2018, 16:33
Back in the very early 1970s, an entrepreneur opened a 'grocery' store in an out of town warehouse where the pallets of goods were dropped in rows for customers to serve themselves.
No frills.
Prices were cheap and word soon spread and the enterprise soon became extremely successful.
A sort of ALDI/LIDL predecessor - though without 'own brands'.
When my wife was confined to bed (pregnancy problems) I went there and did three separate identical 'monthly' shops for non-perishables and stored them in the loft so that I could access the necessary items as required.
It worked for us.

ShyTorque
20th Sep 2018, 16:40
G-CPTN

That's exactly how ALDI was in the very early 80s. Their "own branded" stuff came later. We used it because it was considerably cheaper to shop there than the so-called "tax-free" NAAFI and much closer to where we lived.

Fareastdriver
20th Sep 2018, 16:58
Lidl are starting to go downhill on their original presentation. Twenty years ago it was a simple essential products store where all the day to day necessities' were cheap and of good quality.
They have just rebuilt our local store and it's a disaster. All the stuff you relied on getting is now not stocked or replaced by a similar product which is now here near the value of the previous offering. The good old bulk sausages and chips have gone to be replaced by poncy fashion packets and there are so many refrigerators and freezers around that it's like an expensive Freezerfair.

There is so many items that are now not available that I am starting to lose faith in them and going along the road to Morrisons.

barry lloyd
20th Sep 2018, 16:59
G-CPTN

Back in the very early 1970s, an entrepreneur opened a 'grocery' store in an out of town warehouse where the pallets of goods were dropped in rows for customers to serve themselves.

Back in the late 1960s there was such a store similar to the one you describe, not far from where I lived in Warrington. It was called Tesco...
In my local village there is currently a Tesco Express, a Co-op is due to open shortly and an Aldi is in the course of construction. I suspect that the Tesco Express will very soon become a Jack's!

Harley Quinn
20th Sep 2018, 17:44
That Chatteris store stood empty for at least 5 years.

Dan Gerous
20th Sep 2018, 19:56
Lidl are starting to go downhill on their original presentation. Twenty years ago it was a simple essential products store where all the day to day necessities' were cheap and of good quality.
They have just rebuilt our local store and it's a disaster. All the stuff you relied on getting is now not stocked or replaced by a similar product which is now here near the value of the previous offering. The good old bulk sausages and chips have gone to be replaced by poncy fashion packets and there are so many refrigerators and freezers around that it's like an expensive Freezerfair.

There is so many items that are now not available that I am starting to lose faith in them and going along the road to Morrisons.

Our Lidl store was knocked down a few years ago and replaced by a bigger flashier one, and as you say Fareast, it also has gone downhill since. There must have been a serious world wide shortage of shaving foam and razor blades, as you could never get them in there. We also got a new Aldi just along the road from it this year, and I rarely use it. Both stores have a serious problem with queues and getting served at the check out. I still use them for specific stuff that I buy, but have gone back to using Morrisons and Sainsburys for the more everyday items I need.

G-CPTN
20th Sep 2018, 20:27
We also got a new Aldi just along the road from it this year, and I rarely use it. Both stores have a serious problem with queues and getting served at the check out.
Our ALDI (in the nearby town) is always very fast at checkout - they bring staff from the store-room to operate the seven tills as soon as the last person in the queue reaches the far end of the counter (bear in mind that might be just two customers with lots of purchases) and are very adept at processing the goods with a quick endless swipe.
I would never describe the check-out as congested - though sometimes I admit there can be four or five people in front - until they open more tills and bring staff from other duties.
We do not have a LIDL within 15 miles.

Pontius Navigator
21st Sep 2018, 07:57
Went to a Lidl yesterday, usually use Aldi as it is more convenient, and very impressed. Only down was checkout queues as they only had 3 lanes open. The range of foods would bear quality against Waitrose with more emphasis on food for meals than ready meals. The pictures of Jack's looks more like a jumble sale. BTW, we don't have a Tesco where I live.

treadigraph
21st Sep 2018, 08:02
There is a Lidl or Aldi a couple of miles down the road - usually use Tesco but trying to economise a bit at the minute, so may well give it a go. The other brand are due to build a new supermarket within half a mile but as there's no sign of construction starting yet, I'll hold my breath...

keyboard flier
21st Sep 2018, 08:13
Back in the very early 1970s, an entrepreneur opened a 'grocery' store in an out of town warehouse where the pallets of goods were dropped in rows for customers to serve themselves
We had the same in the town centre, it was called Kwik Save'

Pontius Navigator
21st Sep 2018, 09:36
The cheapest place to shop is the one closest to you that sells what you want and has free parking.

Lidl sells good Croissants in its in-store bakery at 39p. The Coop sells them at 78p. Waitrose sells them at about £1.39.

As we are half a mile from the Coop, 15 miles from Lidl and 20 from Waitrose and I want them fresh for breakfast - no brainer.

Trossie
21st Sep 2018, 10:28
How are those German supermarkets going to fare after a 'No Deal' Brexit?

treadigraph
21st Sep 2018, 13:12
I've got a Bangladeshi-run "open all hours" shop a few minutes walk away. Obviously their stock, particularly of meat/veg, is limited but if you just want milk, pack of bacon, tin of beans or whatever, their prices closely rival the supermarkets, they are handy, family run and friendly. I got some bacon there once; I prefer smoked but other than that it was lovely and tasty. Not sure if they run to croissants though. Mmmm, haven't had any for a while...

Fareastdriver
21st Sep 2018, 19:29
Where I live we have Tesco, Lidl. Morrisons, Co-op, Iceland, Sainsburys and Asda on one city bus route.

Pontius Navigator
21st Sep 2018, 19:42
How are those German supermarkets going to fare after a 'No Deal' Brexit?
Any change will only be if we impose tariffs.

Also we will be able to reduce VAT below 15% should we so wish. This will make pink aviating pigs cheaper.

meadowrun
21st Sep 2018, 19:46
Also we will be able to reduce VAT below 15% should we so wish

Right. And income tax was only supposed to be for the duration of the First World War.

fa2fi
21st Sep 2018, 20:13
How are those German supermarkets going to fare after a 'No Deal' Brexit?

Both like to shout out about the fact that a good portion of their products are UK sourced so I should imagine they'll just crack on. You can't move in LIDL for saltire and union (never England flags though) flags on huge amounts of products, particularly fresh. ALDI's boss boasted some time ago about 77% of prudcts being UK sourced. ALDI somehow manages to work outside of the EU such as Australia and USA. If it works there it can work here outside of the EU/SM/CU. So I'd imagine they'll do just fine.

virginblue
21st Sep 2018, 20:19
It is a global brand originating from Germany. It is not a German supermarket with everything hauled in from there. So they will be as fine or bad as Morrisons, Tesco or Waitrose.

racedo
21st Sep 2018, 20:46
Tesco offering is doomed to failure..................... just like Sainsbury's relaunch under Netto name a couple of years ago. Nobody remembers that either.

Single question for a Tesco shopper is .............. IF they can make it cheap there then why not in the Tesco store I use.

Oh there will be lots of hype and positives BUT Lidl and Aldi do well for a reason and will continue to do well.

20 odd years ago I remember Aldi advertising for part time staff paying £10 an hour.................. they wanted partime people doing 16 hours a week and would guarantee their hours long term. Mate worked as district manager for pub chin was initially worried then realised they wanted mums long term where as pubs want for 6 months but he paying £3.50 an hour then.

Kiltrash
21st Sep 2018, 20:49
ALdi and Lidl for the tin packet chill and frozen Sainsbury on the way back for produce and lines we could not get. It costs me less than £1 extra in fuel to get to the discounters but easily save that
​only down side is that they do not have self scan ....but hope it comes soon

racedo
21st Sep 2018, 20:56
ALdi and Lidl for the tin packet chill and frozen Sainsbury on the way back for produce and lines we could not get. It costs me less than £1 extra in fuel to get to the discounters but easily save that
​only down side is that they do not have self scan ....but hope it comes soon

Self scan / unmanned checkout has significant shrinkage................ as staff do shelf stacking as well then cost of 1 staff member per hr is circa £15 when take everything in, can lose than with 1 shopper.
OTOH I saw a poundland with selfscan ..

VP959
21st Sep 2018, 21:19
One of the drivers for the hand-held, self-scan as you shop, gizmos, is personal data collection and correlation. I inquired about using one and was asked for my name, address, email address, phone number as well as by credit/debit card number. There's only one reason they insist on having all that info, and it's so they can use your data to offset the cost of providing the scanners.

Not too bothered by what Tesco's do, as I've never shopped there and don't intend to start now. Aldi and Lidl are damned good at what they do, so I doubt that Tesco will come close to being able to take them on. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people now seem to split their shopping between two radically different supermarkets. We use Aldi for high-cost stuff, because they always seem to have stuff like high quality smoked salmon at half the price of Waitrose. I'm not so convinced that their general offerings are great value, and would rather pay a bit more for better stuff from Waitrose.

racedo
21st Sep 2018, 21:46
Not too bothered by what Tesco's do, as I've never shopped there and don't intend to start now. Aldi and Lidl are damned good at what they do, so I doubt that Tesco will come close to being able to take them on. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people now seem to split their shopping between two radically different supermarkets. We use Aldi for high-cost stuff, because they always seem to have stuff like high quality smoked salmon at half the price of Waitrose. I'm not so convinced that their general offerings are great value, and would rather pay a bit more for better stuff from Waitrose.

Mate work in Food Industry and has worked within many of the suppliers to retailers.

Quality is the same if not better is his assessment of Aldi / Lidl. They take a lower profit margin plus head office staff is smaller so less costs.

Told the story of his company and they sold $40 Million a year to Aldi.
They sent a FAX.................. WTF a FAX to Aldi with the prices for the next 6 months, 6 month contract, Aldi agreed by Fax and that was it.
Prices of raw materials went up and down but deal with Aldi was price fixed for 6 months so if prices go down manufacturer benefits and if up they lose.
This was early this year and said Aldi ALWAYS stuck to their word, same with Lidl.

Contrast this with a huge business owner of Jack's.
Price was agreed but they added in lots of clauses and charges and chargebacks and queries.
If raw material price dropped they on the phone insisting they taking the raw material reduced price from day it dropped, forget about stuff already bought and ordered.
However when price went up they demanded a 13 week lead time but they would ensure from 1st spoke about it was closer to 26 weeks.

Not unsurprisingly he loved dealing with Aldi and Lidl, other retailers were a nightmare. Buyers constantly changing and all wanting to prove how good they are by screwing the supplier.

Mate doing this for 15 years and said in Aldi in that time he dealt with 2 buyers. In other retailers he said 2 a year was common.

To manage Aldi, he can do it, to manage Tesco's they have to have 6 people plus others in support.

chevvron
21st Sep 2018, 22:39
About 18 months ago, our local Budgens became a Co-op.
When it was Budgens, I used to see (or more correctly hear) Brian Blessed in there about once a week, but I haven't seen him since the re-branding. Any connection?
Before the re-branding, Tesco's who I understand part own Budgens, bought the site of a very useful hardware store about 100 yds from Budgens and demolished the hardware store with the intention of building a Tesco Express (it wasn't big enough for a larger store and there certainly wouldn't have been room for more than 2 or 3 car parking spaces.
Having been refused planning permission twice and then run into financial problems, they are now selling the site.

Pontius Navigator
22nd Sep 2018, 07:58
Chevron, same near us. The Coop was a poor building and nearest Tesco 8 miles away. T bought a large brown field site. None of the village villagers wanted a Tesco and when archaeological investigation found Roman and other remains that was tgayr, site sold. Also in the town they planned to relocate to a bigger flood free site and add new classrooms to the Grammar School. Locals didn't want it - summer traffic, school traffic and then shoppers. Also further from town centre so impact on High Street.

They said if it was an Aldi ☺. Tesco gave up after the school insisted on a two-story extension. They just don't know when they are not wanted.

Pontius Navigator
22nd Sep 2018, 08:01
VP959, try Winchester. Between Aldi and Waitrose is a small wall.

chevvron
22nd Sep 2018, 20:48
There are 2 large M & S main stores (as opposed to BP station franchises) about 7 or 8 miles away which are co located with a Tesco so when I visit the big M & S for any reason, I nip in Tesco to get my booze as it's usually (but not always) cheaper than elsewhere; that's the only thing useful about Tesco

SWBKCB
22nd Sep 2018, 21:12
Not unsurprisingly he loved dealing with Aldi and Lidl, other retailers were a nightmare. Buyers constantly changing and all wanting to prove how good they are by screwing the supplier.

Mate doing this for 15 years and said in Aldi in that time he dealt with 2 buyers. In other retailers he said 2 a year was common.

To manage Aldi, he can do it, to manage Tesco's they have to have 6 people plus others in support.

I've heard very similar stories over and over again - Aldi and Lidl straight forward, well organised and fair, by contrast Waitrose and M&S in particular are regarded as "hard work"

Krystal n chips
23rd Sep 2018, 06:59
One of the drivers for the hand-held, self-scan as you shop, gizmos, is personal data collection and correlation. I inquired about using one and was asked for my name, address, email address, phone number as well as by credit/debit card number. There's only one reason they insist on having all that info, and it's so they can use your data to offset the cost of providing the scanners.

Not too bothered by what Tesco's do, as I've never shopped there and don't intend to start now. Aldi and Lidl are damned good at what they do, so I doubt that Tesco will come close to being able to take them on. One thing I've noticed is that a lot of people now seem to split their shopping between two radically different supermarkets. We use Aldi for high-cost stuff, because they always seem to have stuff like high quality smoked salmon at half the price of Waitrose. I'm not so convinced that their general offerings are great value, and would rather pay a bit more for better stuff from Waitrose.

People do split their shopping, however, old habits are deeply ingrained when it comes to pretentions of grandeur and the neighbours, thus it's far from uncommon to see the occupants of expensive cars putting their purchases at Aldi / Lidl into bags marked Waitrose or M & S or Harrods either at the till or outside by the car.

Waitrose smoked salmon has always been over priced, but does become good value once they've stuck a "reduced " label on it. Lidl also sell decent smoked salmon along with a range of decent food.....all packed into my Morrison's bag en route to my back pack for onward transportation by foot or by bus.

Trossie
23rd Sep 2018, 07:11
Waitrose smoked salmon has always been over priced, but does become good value once they've stuck a "reduced " label on it.How would you know? Did someone tell you?

sitigeltfel
23rd Sep 2018, 07:57
A new Aldi store opens near here on Wednesday, 200 metres from an overpriced Super-U that has had a monopoly in the area. Hopefully they will get a good kicking.

ZeBedie
23rd Sep 2018, 10:21
I've heard very similar stories over and over again - Aldi and Lidl straight forward, well organised and fair, by contrast Waitrose and M&S in particular are regarded as "hard work"

My brother used to work for a large bakery. At one time, he was giving away rather nice cakes as fast as her could unload his car. M&S had rejected a large order because it was a few grams over the specified weight. Being in M&S branded packaging, they were simply thrown away, at a loss to the baker.

ORAC
23rd Sep 2018, 10:54
Right. And income tax was only supposed to be for the duration of the First World War. Napoleonic Wars - Pitt the Younger 1798.

HM Revenue & Customs: Taxation: A tax to beat Napoleon (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130127153155/http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/history/taxhis1.htm)

Uplinker
23rd Sep 2018, 14:30
Went to an Aldi for the first time while night stopping in Germany recently. Was surprised to find many “normal” familiar branded products there along with organic apples, good quality mixed nuts and good freshly baked products. The price at the till was about half what I was expecting.

I would not want to lose Waitrose and M&S food stores from the ‘high street’, but I have to wonder if their much higher prices and profit margins can really be justified, or if as Stephen Fry once said, it merely “keeps the scum out” (his words not mine).

andytug
23rd Sep 2018, 14:46
Don't know what M&S is like everywhere, but here it's almost exclusively pensioners that shop there. Their Chinese in a box is excellent though....
Fundamental problem is that there is no shop where you can get everything you need cheap, but Aldi is pretty close. We fill a trolley to overflow for about £70, try that in Tesco etc it'd be double.
Our area is full of veg/salad growers and packers, the stuff for Aldi is grown and packed in the same fields and sheds as M&S, TESCOS etc so to pay more for it makes no sense.....
Think this is too little too late by Tesco to be honest, there's a fair number of pretty well of people shopping at Aldi and they won't change - people with money are the tightest people going, in general.

Pontius Navigator
23rd Sep 2018, 15:28
Apart from Aldi being much closer than Waitrose (next town), we do get 20% vouchers, a free paper, and free coffee from Waitrose so not too shabby. Subjectively it does seem to have more things ready to heat than Aldi which has more for ingredients.

Agree about keeping scum out. Obviously in Winchester with Waitrose next door people dress up. In Louth, with a new Aldi, it was off limits. Saw one family, straight from the pig farm, handling the goods: we left, there are limits.

driftdown
23rd Sep 2018, 16:11
It has been a while since I shopped for the family in Tescos but when I did I looked at what I had paid and how many items and it did seem as though each item cost about a pound. Maybe just coincidence and it's changed now with the competition from Aldi / Lidl.

krismiler
24th Sep 2018, 00:42
Waitrose are very good, remember that during the horse meat scandal they were unaffected as they were very strict about the supply chain where as others were doing urgent recalls.

Buying the best for every purchase is wasting your money, buy a suitable quality level which does the job satisfactorily. Top quality French cheese is overkill for a children's party.

I rotate my shopping among four outlets, a different one each week. I know which one is cheaper in a certain area and buy accordingly, also I know which one has the best cheese and exotic food if I want to splurge.

Krystal n chips
24th Sep 2018, 05:46
Apart from Aldi being much closer than Waitrose (next town), we do get 20% vouchers, a free paper, and free coffee from Waitrose so not too shabby. Subjectively it does seem to have more things ready to heat than Aldi which has more for ingredients.

Agree about keeping scum out. Obviously in Winchester with Waitrose next door people dress up. In Louth, with a new Aldi, it was off limits. Saw one family, straight from the pig farm, handling the goods: we left, there are limits.

Pining for the days of yore and feudalism by any chance ?......or would you prefer separate entrances like they had in SHQ's "peasants entrance round the back " or there again, maybe Waitrose are a bit too egalitarian for you ...fancy being happy to take the money from people who work on a pig farm as well as those who don't !.

Of course, had you frequented the one I used to shop in, you would have been delighted to see, and smell, the future agricultural elite, arriving in the Rangy, which all students drive as we know, fresh from whatever simulation of getting their pinkies dirty and then there were the dedicated "clip clop "brigade, many of whom could have been role models for a "Thelwell " cartoon. Nothing really beats the aroma of horse muck wafting around a supermarket ...

And who can forget the condescending smirk of some clientele dictating to the shop assistants precisely how they wished their bags to be packed....being too sodding lazy, and / or incapable, of doing this menial task themselves .

It was also interesting to watch said elitist shoppers buying the extra long "Rizla " papers.....now why would such upstanding citizens be making such a purchase ?

Yep. with a "Waitrose " card you do get certain benefits as you say....there again, this helps the Mails circulation figures and presumably you now take your own cup....probably with a piccie of a Vulcan on it.

You have to wonder though, as to the financial acumen of "Waitrose " and "M & S" clientele who happily spend far more than is required just to prove to the world they are possibly the drivers of certain marques, now transmogrified into shoppers.......although a quick scan of the car park will confirm this.

Being a Ford driver one had no such delusions and saved a fortune by buying some of Waitrose own brand and many of their "reduced " items. But that's us simpletons for you.....

Uplinker
24th Sep 2018, 08:42
Just realised what the ‘chips’ in your user name refers to: chips on both your shoulders. :)

.......precisely how they wished their bags to be packed....being too sodding lazy, and / or incapable, of doing this menial task themselves .

Is it wrong of them to ask for help if they have, say, arthritis of the hands, like Mary Berry, or a lack of coordination, or simply cannot pack very fast and are worried about holding up the queue?

What will you do when you are not capable of packing for yourself, starve?

Krystal n chips
24th Sep 2018, 10:10
Just realised what the ‘chips’ in your user name refers to: chips on both your shoulders. :)



Is it wrong of them to ask for help if they have, say, arthritis of the hands, like Mary Berry, or a lack of coordination, or simply cannot pack very fast and are worried about holding up the queue?

What will you do when you are not capable of packing for yourself, starve?








Nothing at all wrong with helping people who have a physical and / or other impairments pack their bags. It's a very commendable gesture on the part of the store and anybody who helps such people.

Unfortunately, in Waitrose, this customer focussed activity extends to those who do not suffer any form of impairment, ...other than those induced by their personalities and egos.

G-CPTN
24th Sep 2018, 10:12
Unfortunately, in Waitrose, this customer focussed activity extends to those who do not suffer any form of impairment, ...other than those induced by their personalities and egos.
Personal experience?

Krystal n chips
24th Sep 2018, 10:17
Personal experience?

Nope, always declined as I am perfectly capable of packing my own.......however, there may well be some here on JB who do...... for reasons I stated.

racedo
24th Sep 2018, 10:37
Don't know what M&S is like everywhere, but here it's almost exclusively pensioners that shop there. Their Chinese in a box is excellent though....
Fundamental problem is that there is no shop where you can get everything you need cheap, but Aldi is pretty close. .

Do you want cheap or quality ?

CATIII-NDB
24th Sep 2018, 10:48
Nope, always declined as I am perfectly capable of packing my own.......however, there may well be some here on JB who do...... for reasons I stated. In my case; at Waitrose I always pack my own and like many people, I try to go for the reduced items too. You can save a lot of cash that way.. Unfortunately the expensive food store until very recently, was the my only choice without making a journey into town. A new Sainsbury’s has just opened up a 10 minutes further walk away and I hope to get some bargains there - Less posh less dosh.

On packing my own: (it sounds like a academic thesis) there's still an unreconstructed "Class Warrior" in side of me and I cannot stand being waited on. The reason being the person who thought me to play chess was for much of her life; a Scullion (Scullery Maid) in service, through being born into poverty, she never had the education to match her intellect.

CAT III

(racedo: Quality & Cheap are not mutually exclusive)

treadigraph
24th Sep 2018, 11:24
A new Salisbury’s has just opened up a 10 minutes further walk away and I hope to get some bargains there - Less posh less dosh.

Stocks a good line in nerve agents does it? :p

CATIII-NDB
24th Sep 2018, 11:49
Stocks a good line in nerve agents does it? :p

That blasted Spell Checker: Sainsbury's (it still won't have it) of course - Apologies
CAT III
#

andytug
24th Sep 2018, 11:56
Do you want cheap or quality ?

Nothing wrong with Aldi's quality, their veg comes the same fields as M&S. If you can wean yourself off the brand is best mentality you will save an awful lot of money....

G-CPTN
24th Sep 2018, 13:23
I was a stalwart supporter of ALDI, however, two reasons have altered my allegiance.
The first is that, we used to have an hourly bus service from the village direct to ALDI, with 20 minutes before it returned - giving sufficient time for a reasonable 'shop'.
The second reason is associated with my main reason for travelling - to buy milk at significantly lower cost than from the village store.
The first (hourly bus) no longer runs, so I would have to walk three-quarters of a mile from and to the town bus station (with a difference in altitude making it tasking on the return when laden with bags of shopping), and secondly, ALDI no longer stock the size of milk that made it economical for me - whereas I can obtain that size from Iceland - a mere 400 yards from the bus station (and all on the level).
No doubt ALDI will not miss my custom, although I regularly bought significantly more than my two bottles of milk (especially as I had door to door transport, the bus stop being just a few yards from my house).

racedo
24th Sep 2018, 16:39
Nothing wrong with Aldi's quality, their veg comes the same fields as M&S. If you can wean yourself off the brand is best mentality you will save an awful lot of money....

Never said there was as an Aldi / Lidl shopper plus others.

I was highlighting to someone who wanted cheap above all else it appears.

wowzz
24th Sep 2018, 23:18
As someone who in a previous life has had negotiations with most of the major supermarkets in the UK I would say that the detail in the specification of any own label product is significant. M&S for example, have a very tight spec, but are prepared to pay for it. Aldi/Lidl have a very loose spec (look at the vast range of individual item weights in their prepared veg bags) and suppliers are happy to supply, knowing they can get rid of produce thst the likes of Tesco and Sainsbury would reject..
In these days of mass food production, with costs pared to the bone, it is difficult to cut costs any further. Basically it is about selling as much as you can, with the least associated cost.. If you can then add extra value, with a consequential added profit, so much the better.
I was amused when, some years ago, the Sunday Times compared the brand leading product to a Sainsbury own label product, and declared that the branded product was far superior. Given that my company supplied both products from the same factory, with the identical recipe, I have long since given up buying any branded product if an own label equivalent is available..

treadigraph
25th Sep 2018, 05:59
I was amused when, some years ago, the Sunday Times compared the brand leading product to a Sainsbury own label product, and declared that the branded product was far superior. Given that my company supplied both products from the same factory, with the identical recipe, I have long since given up buying any branded product if an own label equivalent is available..

I remember many years ago my mum buying Sainsbury's Cornflakes rather than Kelloggs. They certainly didn't taste as good though I know not whether Kelloggs boxed them for Sainsbury or what. She insisted they were the same! I've never put sugar on Cornflakes or Rice Krispies which may be why I could taste the difference (see what I did there!).

Krystal n chips
25th Sep 2018, 06:55
I remember many years ago my mum buying Sainsbury's Cornflakes rather than Kelloggs. They certainly didn't taste as good though I know not whether Kelloggs boxed them for Sainsbury or what. She insisted they were the same! I've never put sugar on Cornflakes or Rice Krispies which may be why I could taste the difference (see what I did there!).

Buying dedicated brands.....no disrespect to your Mum here please note, is a good way of parting with more money than necessary given the UK doesn't really have that many food production factories after all.

My late father worked for Metal Box, who, at the time had pretty much a monopoly on canning and packaging for the industry so he shouldn't have been quite so surprised, when, after being made redundant, he got a very short term job with an exceedingly good cake maker....and found the packaging was merely adapted to suit the customer at the time of production. and the contents were slightly adapted for more refined pallets .

jimtherev
25th Sep 2018, 08:30
History now - so forgive me.
Had a few weeks in the summer of 61 (I think) driving for an Oxford wine merchant. Sherry came in three grades: gold label, 8 shillings, for the tables of North Oxford; silver label, 7s/6p, for the colleges, and paper label 6s/6p for oiks like me wot didn't know the difference.
Nor could anyone else on a blind tasting, because they all were bottled in our depot from the same huge barrel imported from Spain.

History, as I say - but has the world changed that much?

ZeBedie
25th Sep 2018, 09:09
job with an exceedingly good cake maker....and found the packaging was merely adapted to suit the customer at the time of production. and the contents were slightly adapted for more refined pallets .

I wouldn't subject my palate to a Kipling cake. And how many cakes were on a pallet?

keyboard flier
25th Sep 2018, 09:36
Similar, my uncle worked for Colmans in Norwich (when they were a big industry) and for example orange cordial. Made in a huge vat along comes a line of Robinsons bottles to be filled, then it could a supermarkets container. Same stuff just different shape bottle and label.

treadigraph
25th Sep 2018, 10:05
I generally shop at Tesco and mostly buy their brand, certainly all meat and veg - I might put cornflakes to the test! Looking in the cupboard and fridge, preference is Heinz tommy sauce, beans and soups, Anchor butter, PG Tips, Nescafe instant but Tesco-brand Kenyan filter, Quaker oats. Also Hovis bread, Bisto gravy, plus one or two other well-known staples. Stuff like the gravy, probably what was on offer at the time, not bothered whose that is. Definitely not keen on their own brand sausages, too peppery; they used to stock some very good other brand Cumberland sausages but sadly no longer...

As I presently have no income, am looking to reduce costs further so hopefully I can stay off work for another year without impinging on my savings... :) Must get down to Aldi in Coulsdon, see what it's like.

Krystal n chips
25th Sep 2018, 11:04
I wouldn't subject my palate to a Kipling cake. And how many cakes were on a pallet?

I would, but there again. However, as you mentioned my error......must be a side effect from reading the Grudian for so many years, feel free to do some maths in answer to your question...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet

chevvron
25th Sep 2018, 15:19
History now - so forgive me.
Had a few weeks in the summer of 61 (I think) driving for an Oxford wine merchant. Sherry came in three grades: gold label, 8 shillings, for the tables of North Oxford; silver label, 7s/6p, for the colleges, and paper label 6s/6p for oiks like me wot didn't know the difference.
Nor could anyone else on a blind tasting, because they all were bottled in our depot from the same huge barrel imported from Spain.

History, as I say - but has the world changed that much?
Went on holiday in St Lucia back in '04. Did a trip to a distillery while we were there, (well you would wouldn't you) where they distil basic alchohol from sugar stock brought in from other places (no sugar grown there now - all plantations have gone over to banana growing). We were shown a huge container tank of this base stock ready to be shipped.
The guide explained it was destined for Tesco in the UK, where they would add different flavourings and colourings so that it could end up being Tesco own brand gin, whisky, vodka, rum etc.

Fareastdriver
25th Sep 2018, 18:21
I don't know if they still do it but when I was in Norway forty years ago you could buy various flavourings and an alcohol meter in a supermarket. You then bought pure spirit from a government shop, mixed in the flavour and you had an instant bottle of whisky, gin, rum, whatever.

Of course a national hobby was distilling your own spirit and therefore bypassing the government shop and alcohol tax.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 19:03
I remember many years ago my mum buying Sainsbury's Cornflakes rather than Kelloggs. They certainly didn't taste as good though I know not whether Kelloggs boxed them for Sainsbury or what. She insisted they were the same! I've never put sugar on Cornflakes or Rice Krispies which may be why I could taste the difference (see what I did there!).

Nope they are not as Kelloggs do not make own label products for retailers.

Easy to find out where it comes from as product has a source code which will tell manufacturer.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 19:10
Buying dedicated brands.....no disrespect to your Mum here please note, is a good way of parting with more money than necessary given the UK doesn't really have that many food production factories after all.


Brand owners are generally 12 months ahead of supermarket own label brands.

Additionally own label brands do not have the same quality of ingredients as a brand.

It can be close sometimes and occasionally even better but it most definitely is not the same.

As my mate told me its why Major Retailers insist on a 13 (er 20) week lead time before introduction of a new product by a Brand Owner.
This gives them time to sit down with their own label producer to reverse engineer the product and get it on the shelf before the Bran Owners offering.

Brand owner will put on advertising, sampling etc, retailer will not.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 19:24
I generally shop at Tesco and mostly buy their brand, certainly all meat and veg - I might put cornflakes to the test! Looking in the cupboard and fridge, preference is Heinz tommy sauce, beans and soups, Anchor butter, PG Tips, Nescafe instant but Tesco-brand Kenyan filter, Quaker oats. Also Hovis bread, Bisto gravy, plus one or two other well-known staples. Stuff like the gravy, probably what was on offer at the time, not bothered whose that is. Definitely not keen on their own brand sausages, too peppery; they used to stock some very good other brand Cumberland sausages but sadly no longer...

As I presently have no income, am looking to reduce costs further so hopefully I can stay off work for another year without impinging on my savings... :) Must get down to Aldi in Coulsdon, see what it's like.

Could always look at the offerings of that Amazon river on foodstuffs or Costco given your location its just up the road.

treadigraph
25th Sep 2018, 20:10
Costco's bulk buying though isn't it?

wowzz
25th Sep 2018, 20:37
"Additionally own label brands do not have the same quality of ingredients as a brand."
Having been in the grocery industry for too long, selling brand leaders and own label products to all the major supermarkets, can I just say that the above comment is 100% wrong.

Private jet
25th Sep 2018, 21:07
the farmers suffer.
Thats the funniest & most disingenuous thing I've read in ages.

Private jet
25th Sep 2018, 21:44
My grandmother shopped in the very first Tesco shop and what a revelation it was, a relief from all the shifty, greedy, individual little shopkeepers. It's a Superdrug now, though nothing there at all to indicate where it all started, nobody knows or cares these days. I have a Tesco order coming tomorrow. Delivered to my door, on time for £2. They have what I want, at a fair price, when I want it. A superb service. All these people who hark for the old days of little shops along the High street are either nutters or have some sort of vested interest, either direct or indirect. We don't have an Aldi near here but a Lidl about 8 miles away. I went in there once on a day off out of sheer curiosity. A bit cheaper perhaps, much less choice but very good if you coincidentally need a torch or battery drill or another piece of cheap Chinese tat.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 21:53
"Additionally own label brands do not have the same quality of ingredients as a brand."
Having been in the grocery industry for too long, selling brand leaders and own label products to all the major supermarkets, can I just say that the above comment is 100% wrong.

Major multiples will go for raw material cost, brand leaders will not.......... and a brand leader is 1st or 2nd place nationally.

I am not saying the quality is poor, it is just different sepcifications.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 21:58
My grandmother shopped in the very first Tesco shop and what a revelation it was, a relief from all the shifty, greedy, individual little shopkeepers. It's a Superdrug now, though nothing there at all to indicate where it all started, nobody knows or cares these days. I have a Tesco order coming tomorrow. Delivered to my door, on time for £2. They have what I want, at a fair price, when I want it. A superb service. All these people who hark for the old days of little shops along the High street are either nutters or have some sort of vested interest, either direct or indirect. We don't have an Aldi near here but a Lidl about 8 miles away. I went in there once on a day off out of sheer curiosity. A bit cheaper perhaps, much less choice but very good if you coincidentally need a torch or battery drill or another piece of cheap Chinese tat.

Every body talks of shops in the high street and then heads to the out of town stores.

Now if there were 40,000 high st stores (made up number) and that was the same as 1990 that would be fine but time and again developers add more and more retail units and then wonder why more empty units.

In one high street I know a national clothing chain that is in its 4 shop in 8 years because they sign short term leases and then move to the next one offering a cheap deal.

racedo
25th Sep 2018, 21:59
Costco's bulk buying though isn't it?

Not wholly but yes you can buy cases of items....

krismiler
26th Sep 2018, 00:51
Own brands can be a bit hit and miss. Some are exactly the same as premium brands except the packaging is different, others have much lower quality ingredients or less of the active ingredient. “Which” magazine have a good library of articles that subscribers can look up regarding own brands.

I certainly wouldn’t buy supermarket brand sausages or meat pies, but basic items such as cornflakes, flour, toilet rolls etc should be fine.

Ice cream is one area where I go premium, a tub of Haagen Daz left to melt will reduce slightly in volume and form a consistent thick liquid. Cheap stuff will halve in volume and separate into water with foam floating on top, reminding of the sink after shaving.

chevvron
26th Sep 2018, 02:20
I certainly wouldn’t buy supermarket brand sausages or meat pies, but basic items such as cornflakes, flour, toilet rolls etc should be fine.
I find Co-op sausages are very tasty, as are their pork pies.

Pontius Navigator
26th Sep 2018, 06:48
Bought Canadian maple syrup in Tesco, then saw it on sale in the Coop, same price, similar bottle even down to the looked like label. Sure enough, same manufacturer.

Oh for the days when Beanz means Heinz, and I don't like beanz anyway.

Fareastdriver
26th Sep 2018, 09:22
The only supermarket type delivery our household gets is from Iceland. (the shop). Over £30 and they deliver it for free with a choice of delivery times and the frozen stuff is kept frozen. The advantage of this is that one has selected the individual items so you can ensure that their sell by date is after when you want to use them.

With Tescos et al the 'shopper' just pulls the nearest one off the shelf and you can end up with a pile of groceries which expire tomorrow.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 11:20
The only supermarket type delivery our household gets is from Iceland. (the shop). Over £30 and they deliver it for free with a choice of delivery times and the frozen stuff is kept frozen. The advantage of this is that one has selected the individual items so you can ensure that their sell by date is after when you want to use them.

With Tescos et al the 'shopper' just pulls the nearest one off the shelf and you can end up with a pile of groceries which expire tomorrow.

Iceland frozen items can side in their Deeside Warehouse for months before they are sent out to stores.................... 18 month shelf life is not uncommon on manufacture.

As for Tesco groceries with Short shelf life........................ bearing in mind the footfall through a store it is difficult to come across foodstuffs in Frozen out of date, chilled is different but there is a minimum shelf life when it is delivered into store. Staff and see them doing it all the time will constantly check shelf life and move items with short shelf life to the front or to discount isle.
This applies to all retailers because Weather forecast predicted BBQ weather but it rained all weekend so fresh meat likely discounted Sunday / Mon to get rid of the stock.
It is not an exact science because the chilled frozen meal you will have on Saturday night from M&S was made yesterday and expiry date is in 1 week,

Fareastdriver
26th Sep 2018, 11:25
I am just echoing the complaints of a neighbour who is unable to get to the shops so has them delivered.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 11:54
I am just echoing the complaints of a neighbour who is unable to get to the shops so has them delivered.

OFSO when based in Catalonia... assumming he still is, told of his better half using Tesco for home delivery to her mum.
His SWMBO had debit card on her mums bank account and they used to agree shopping, she order online and have them deliver it.
Remember think it was such a cracking idea.

Ensured her mum didn't need to drag bags back from shops, daughter knew what her mum was getting each delivery and ensured it was delivered,
delivery driver would unpack and ensure lady was ok.

Of course next stage would be Retailers have Welfare teams who could liaise with Council / Police on vulnerable people based on driver observations
etc.
So if they deliver in Mid January and house freezing because someone too scared to put heating on then then get Council etc to act or tell relative.

krismiler
26th Sep 2018, 12:09
I find Co-op sausages are very tasty, as are their pork pies.

For sausages, I'd rather go to a quality butcher and for pies, a delicatessen. Waitrose or M&S would probably be acceptable. There is a reason economy meat products are much cheaper than top of the line, as the price goes down so does the quality of the ingredients while the fat content increases. A good sausage has a rough texture inside and is made from the meat named in its description, hot dog sausages and baloney are made with meat from various animals which needs to be ground into oblivion and dyed pink to make it edible.

Own brand tinned fruit may be a grade below a premium brand but half the price and perfectly edible. With breakfast cereal, the packaging costs the manufacturer more than the contents so no need to pay extra. Anyone paying for brand name asprin is wasting their money when the generic is exactly the same.

I'll happily pay more for an M&S lasagne knowing I'm getting good quality ingredients rather than an economy version with lumps of gristle and plastic cheese.

You don"t always need the best, save money where it doesn't matter so you can spend it where it does.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 13:38
with meat from various animals which needs to be ground into oblivion and dyed pink to make it edible.


Lets not mention Doner Kebab............

ShyTorque
26th Sep 2018, 15:13
For sausages, I'd rather go to a quality butcher and for pies, a delicatessen. Waitrose or M&S would probably be acceptable. There is a reason economy meat products are much cheaper than top of the line, as the price goes down so does the quality of the ingredients while the fat content increases. A good sausage has a rough texture inside and is made from the meat named in its description, hot dog sausages and baloney are made with meat from various animals which needs to be ground into oblivion and dyed pink to make it edible.

Best to go to a local butchers' (for local people)....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M3FrHsiSfE

wowzz
26th Sep 2018, 16:51
"Iceland frozen items can side in their Deeside Warehouse for months before they are sent out to stores.................... 18 month shelf life is not uncommon on manufacture."
Which is no different to the frozen food manufacturer keeping stock in their own cold store prior to delivery to Tesco depots.

wowzz
26th Sep 2018, 16:54
Major multiples will go for raw material cost, brand leaders will not.......... and a brand leader is 1st or 2nd place nationally.

I am not saying the quality is poor, it is just different sepcifications.
In many cases that us just totally wrong. It is too expensive to stop the production line and change raw materials. More cost effective to keep running and just change the packaging. Have you ever worked in the food industry?

flash8
26th Sep 2018, 17:38
Tesco's, too little to late.... comes to mind, that the big German discounters have been operating successfully this business model for decades doesn't exactly engender much confidence in Tesco becoming a viable competitor. Smacks I suspect to most people of desperation. From what I remember of the place it was crap.

Pontius Navigator
26th Sep 2018, 18:00
Lidl and Aldi are both building bigger new stores or expanding existing ones. They are both past the Tesco Express model and nearing the smaller big supermarkets. In Lincoln there is a huge Tesco, an Aldi near, and a new expanded Lidl around the corner. Tesco has the edge on white goods, clothing and fuel. Once you are in you will probably shop there.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 18:12
In many cases that us just totally wrong. It is too expensive to stop the production line and change raw materials. More cost effective to keep running and just change the packaging. Have you ever worked in the food industry?

Yes

And lines are changed multiple times per day.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 18:17
"Iceland frozen items can side in their Deeside Warehouse for months before they are sent out to stores.................... 18 month shelf life is not uncommon on manufacture."
Which is no different to the frozen food manufacturer keeping stock in their own cold store prior to delivery to Tesco depots.

Nope because Tesco do not give Frozen foods manufacturers that kind of certainty, 13 weeks max for the packaging they will accept responsibility for.

As categorys are constantly refreshed and menus changed whether it is reduced sugar, palm oil removal or different ingredients there is no manufacturers will to make a years supply for Tesco and let it sit in a warehouse simply they cannot afford the cost.

wowzz
26th Sep 2018, 22:18
Nope because Tesco do not give Frozen foods manufacturers that kind of certainty, 13 weeks max for the packaging they will accept responsibility for.

As categorys are constantly refreshed and menus changed whether it is reduced sugar, palm oil removal or different ingredients there is no manufacturers will to make a years supply for Tesco and let it sit in a warehouse simply they cannot afford the cost.
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. It is entirely possible to pack a product with 18 months life - you are not packing 18 months worth of product. .
A key part of negotiation with retailers is the maximum product life and the minimum life into depot. For short life products, one day can be key, especially in a promotion , when, as a supplier, you will be penalised for failure to supply. I have spent thousands of pounds burying unwanted product, because retailers will not commit to promotional volumes.
As has been said earlier, love them or loathe them, the likes of Aldi have a much more transparent negotiating structure.

wowzz
26th Sep 2018, 22:23
Yes

And lines are changed multiple times per day.
Not in the the industries I worked in. Just too expensive to close down a line, flush it through, and dispose of the previous product. Just depends on the scale of the industry you worked in, so I can entirely believe it may have happened in a production line with only a small throughput.

racedo
26th Sep 2018, 23:00
I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. It is entirely possible to pack a product with 18 months life - you are not packing 18 months worth of product. .
A key part of negotiation with retailers is the maximum product life and the minimum life into depot. For short life products, one day can be key, especially in a promotion , when, as a supplier, you will be penalised for failure to supply. I have spent thousands of pounds burying unwanted product, because retailers will not commit to promotional volumes.
As has been said earlier, love them or loathe them, the likes of Aldi have a much more transparent negotiating structure.

Think you will find I was the person who highlighted Aldi and Lidls negotiation and agreement structure..................

treadigraph
27th Sep 2018, 09:25
they used to stock some very good other brand Cumberland sausages but sadly no longer...

I'm delighted to say that having been absent from Tesco's shelves for months, me favourite bangers are back in stock! Yaaaaayyyy!

Pontius Navigator
27th Sep 2018, 21:18
Heard an interesting report on the radio today about Kale, if Kale can be interesting. They
​​​​​​process 120 tons per day every day except Christmas. She mentioned how labelling would switch seamlessly from Tesco to Waitrose. Is the price at the shop the same?

Krystal n chips
28th Sep 2018, 05:03
Heard an interesting report on the radio today about Kale, if Kale can be interesting. They
​​​​​​process 120 tons per day every day except Christmas. She mentioned how labelling would switch seamlessly from Tesco to Waitrose. Is the price at the shop the same?

An ever helpful simpleton, and, just to compound my inadequacy, formerly non commissioned as well , writes.....

It's just a thought buuut, why not, given there's a Tesco not a million miles from you, pop in and check the price....no purchase required ! and, thereafter, pop into Waitrose for the same reason.

The latter could prove a shade problematic however, but, if you enquire at the customer service desk first as to "have you seen any pig farm workers ( this is more likely to get a polite response than your previous enthusiasm and support for the term.... scum ) cross these hallowed portals recently ? " then your visit should not be as traumatic as your last one because you will know in advance such lower social strata citizens may, or may not, be present.

Back to own brands....

Tesco own brand grapefruit segments.....80p, best value and size of tin in comparison to the usual competitors

Pontius Navigator
28th Sep 2018, 07:40
Right. And income tax was only supposed to be for the duration of the First World War.
And would you believe it, she just promised lower taxes!

I guess the pink pigs will fly to market saving transport costs.

Gordon17
28th Sep 2018, 10:40
Going back to the point about companies making food for different supermarket chains - many years ago I was on a course with some people who worked for Northern Foods who at the time made ready meals, pies, sausages and many other things for all of the chains.

They told me that they liked working for M&S as they would provide a specification and ask how much the product could be made for, while Tesco, Sainsburys, etc would say, "We want meat pies and we'll pay you £x for them, what will you put in them?".

krismiler
28th Sep 2018, 10:49
Basically, made up to a standard or down to a price.

Fareastdriver
28th Sep 2018, 17:11
I had a friend who worked for Lawsons of Dyce about thirty years ago. They had an M&S contact for meat pies and their inspectors used to come round regularly to inspect the production line. It was their only contract and when it went to somebody else they closed up.

The site is now a KwikFit

Pontius Navigator
28th Sep 2018, 18:27
It was their only contract and when it went to somebody else they closed up.

The site is now a KwikFit

CSR, corporate social responsibility.