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TURIN
14th Sep 2018, 10:25
I have just seen a report on BBC News about a rising trend of landlords offering 'rent free' accommodation for sex.
Astonished isn't quite strong enough to describe my response.

The law seems impotent on the subject. No pun intended.

Is this exploitation of the vulnerable in society or just consenting adults coming to an amicable agreement?

BehindBlueEyes
14th Sep 2018, 10:42
I suppose if there is an alternative option to pay in hard currency, if the tenant prefers, I guess itís ok. What agreement one comes to with their private landlord is up to them - providing there is no pressure and arrangements are amicable.

Iíd be interested to see the wording of the tenancy contract though. At least with money, you know what youíre getting. What happens if the amorous performance doesnít match the standard of the accommodation? Would one have to do less for a studio flat compared to a Knightsbridge penthouse?

Krystal n chips
14th Sep 2018, 10:49
I have just seen a report on BBC News about a rising trend of landlords offering 'rent free' accommodation for sex.
Astonished isn't quite strong enough to describe my response.

The law seems impotent on the subject. No pun intended.

Is this exploitation of the vulnerable in society or just consenting adults coming to an amicable agreement?

It's exploitation, and repulsive exploitation at that, of vulnerable people.

However, this exploitation is comparatively minimal to that of "letting agents", whose avarice, greed and arrogance epitomise the private sector....their "fees" are just blatant profiteering under the guise of being "professionals " and having a captive market to exploit ......the fees alone can be extortionate and that's before the obligatory months rent in advance is paid as a friend of mine found last year, quite literally, to her cost.

VP959
14th Sep 2018, 10:51
I think it's just an extension of the "sugar daddy" trend that's been going on for some time:

'A quarter of a million' UK students now using sugar daddies, according to app - BBC Newsbeat (http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35521859/a-quarter-of-a-million-uk-students-now-using-sugar-daddies-according-to-app)

The largest Sugar Daddy Dating Site focus on helping students (http://www.sugardaddyforstudents.com/)

Clearly there are a large number of students that seem to be OK with doing sex-related work to avoid having to rack up a massive student loan. Whether that's right or wrong is hard to judge, but I'd say that if someone isn't coerced into doing something against their will then it's not really wrong. Might seem a bit immoral to some, but for as long as society (or the government) are OK with people incurring debt like this then some may choose not to incur it by taking on any form of work, including the sex industry. My personal view is that the government have created an environment where this sort of activity was bound to occur, simply because of poverty and high debt levels that some incur.

krismiler
14th Sep 2018, 12:21
As long as it is consensual and both parties are happy with the arrangement I wouldn't see any problem, however having watched the same documentary I do remember the comment that it may be promoting prostitution.

There really isn't anything new in this, women exchanging sex for support from a man has been going on for centuries. Marriage is a fairly similar undertaking, a man looks for a desirable partner and a woman looks for a good provider. An attractive and intelligent woman can afford to be fussy and won't settle for a man in a low end job. A handsome man with a high income won't be courting single mothers from council estates.

Tenants sometimes get a reduced rent in exchange for work, a neighbour of mine paid less because he kept the garden at the block of flats where we lived.

The internet has opened up a whole new world, previously sex work could entail finding a pimp and a room to operate from, then spending hours standing on street corners in certain parts of town. Now any number of apps can be installed on a smart phone and a woman could arrive in a new city in the morning and be entertaining clients that night in her hotel. No middleman, less risk and the ability to work when ever and as much as she wants to.

Arrangements are easily made online on a willing seller, willing buyer basis. A struggling single mother, penniless student or bored housewife might be glad of financial assistance in exchange for a nights work.

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 12:30
It's either cheap rent or very expensive sex, depends which side you're on.

But then, there's no such thing as cheap sex, is there?

B Fraser
14th Sep 2018, 13:05
There's two sides to every coin. I wonder what first attracted the girls to the property owning landlords ?

krismiler
14th Sep 2018, 13:06
There's free sex, but that's usually the most expensive kind.;)

TURIN
14th Sep 2018, 13:18
My own take on this is its exploitation. If a woman ( or man for that matter) had the choice to pay in kind or with currency, which would they choose. Unless he or she is actually attracted to the landlord, my guess is they would not choose the sex option.
Another question to ask oneself is, would I be happy if my mother/daughter/sister was doing this?

VP959
14th Sep 2018, 13:52
I seem to remember a book from a few years ago, written by a graduate who found it hard to get well-paid work in London, so chose to become a prostitute. I can't remember the exact details, but IIRC one observation she made was that she could make a lot of money as a call girl, and she'd willingly chosen to earn a living this way and hadn't been coerced by anyone.

As the story above about students highlights, around 20% of female students were engaging in sex-industry related work in 2016 in the UK, presumably in order to earn money. I can't believe that that many would be coerced into that line of work, so would suggest that the majority of them are probably doing it voluntarily.

Pontius Navigator
14th Sep 2018, 14:16
VP, Belle de Jour ​​​​​, she wrote a couple more in a similar vein.
She qualified as a doctor and moved to Scotland. Under her own name she then wrote thrillers. The first, Turning Tide was quite good with scope for development in to a series. Her second was mediocre and I think she has not continued.
Her name is Brooke Magnanti

ImageGear
14th Sep 2018, 14:43
Considering the number of comments suggesting that this is type of exploitation could be acceptable, I wonder what proportion of the contributors have prospective or actual, undergraduate daughters?

IG

SpringHeeledJack
14th Sep 2018, 14:57
I don't personally agree with 'pay for play' as it is referred to in some circles, but when all is said and done a deal between two adults is a deal. Yes, IF things were different, then the 'renter' might probably choose not to be sexually intimate with the renter, but then life is all about choices and their consequences.

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 15:32
I have seen enough in enough countries to know that this is not an isolated occurrence.
Bar girls in Asia, the "key janglers" out side the university in Almaty, etc.
It seems that some small percentage of university students everywhere engage in prostitution.
For what reason? To pay for their education? To augment their lifestyle? Because they just want to?
Probably a combination of the above.

Is it desirable? Probably not the best answer to any of the drivers mentioned above.
Is it acceptable? It has to be, because there is nowt that you can do about it other than accept it.

VP959
14th Sep 2018, 15:36
VP, Belle de Jour ​​​​​, she wrote a couple more in a similar vein.
She qualified as a doctor and moved to Scotland. Under her own name she then wrote thrillers. The first, Turning Tide was quite good with scope for development in to a series. Her second was mediocre and I think she has not continued.
Her name is Brooke Magnanti

Thanks for that. I think it must have made a bit of a stir in the papers at the time the book came out, otherwise I don't think I'd have partially remembered it.

Interesting that she qualified as a doctor; seems she was pretty switched on and not someone likely to be exploited.

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 15:42
There have been cases here in Australia and elsewhere of serving police officers working in the oldest profession.

Ultimately, the two sides of prostitution are sex and money.
The money angle lends itself towards crime and exploitation.
But not all prostitutes are criminals; nor are all prostitutes objects of exploitation.

ORAC
14th Sep 2018, 15:59
There are prostitutes, courtesans, concubines and mistresses.

The only real difference over over the years has been their exclusivity, their price and their reputations.

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 16:53
There are prostitutes, courtesans, concubines and mistresses.

The only real difference over over the years has been their exclusivity, their price and their reputations.

The one you missed is geishas

Espada III
14th Sep 2018, 18:27
It's exploitation, and repulsive exploitation at that, of vulnerable people.

However, this exploitation is comparatively minimal to that of "letting agents", whose avarice, greed and arrogance epitomise the private sector....their "fees" are just blatant profiteering under the guise of being "professionals " and having a captive market to exploit ......the fees alone can be extortionate and that's before the obligatory months rent in advance is paid as a friend of mine found last year, quite literally, to her cost.

You must live in London. The fees charged elsewhere barely cover the cost of dealing with the application process let alone make a profit. And rent in advance is perfectly reasonable; I give you the keys to a house, give me some money....

Oh I forgot you're a socialist.

Harley Quinn
14th Sep 2018, 19:05
The one you missed is geishas

I think a lot of geisha would not be happy being lumped in with the other tarts.

​​​​​​Back on thread: shouldn't the Revenue be looking to tax these benefits? Is there a national rate for sex in exchange for benefits? Is this a case for the DWP, after all they are responsible for the distribution of benefits

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 19:10
I think a lot of geisha would not be happy being lumped in with the other tarts.
​​​

Perhaps a few of the other tarts would not like to be lumped in with some of the other tarts.
But geishas as a group definitely belong.
The job entails, euphemistically, "entertainment", sex and money.

Harley Quinn
14th Sep 2018, 19:16
But geishas as a group definitely belong.
The job entails, euphemistically, "entertainment", sex and money.

Continue in ignorance if you must
Geisha (芸者) (/ˈɡeɪʃə/ (/wiki/Help:IPA/English); Japanese: [ɡeːɕa] (/wiki/Help:IPA/Japanese)), geiko (芸子), or geigi (芸妓) are Japanese women who entertain through performing the ancient traditions of art, dance and singing, and are distinctively characterized by traditional costumes and makeup. Contrary to popular belief, geishas are not the Eastern equivalent of the prostitute; a misconception originating in the West due to interactions with oiran (/wiki/Oiran), whose traditional dress is similar to that of geisha.

Obviously Wikipedia with the usual caveats, but probably more accurate than the opinion of a gaijin

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 20:32
If you seriously think that a geishas duties ends with the art, dance and singing then you are indeed in dreamland.

The geishas, not oiran, attracting millions of dollars of support from well heeled Japanese business men do not get away with just silly laughs and serving tea nicely.
And I know about tieing the cumberbund at the back instead of the front and v/v.
The Japanese will defend to the death the notion of the geishas' duties as being non-sexual. That is where the misconception lies.

I may be a gaijin but then again, I presume that you are too.

Harley Quinn
14th Sep 2018, 20:50
I may be a gaijin but then again, I presume that you are too.
​​​​​​.
Yes I am but I'm not going to die in a ditch over this, I shall continue to respect all women, you can carry on treating them as sexual objects :8

WingNut60
14th Sep 2018, 21:01
I'm not the one paying hundreds of million yen (per year) so I can pretend that my mistress is not a prostitute.

Take a really good look at the geisha deal and tell me that that, which you seem to be defending, is not exploitation, and is not treatment of women as sexual objects.

"Does not intrinsically involve sex...". Yeah, right.

Harley Quinn
14th Sep 2018, 21:13
Back on thread: shouldn't the Revenue be looking to tax these benefits? Is there a national rate for sex in exchange for benefits? Is this a case for the DWP, after all they are responsible for the distribution of benefits

So how does the taxman assess his cut?

krismiler
15th Sep 2018, 03:13
Women have different attitudes to sex, some might remain a virgin until they get married and remain faithful to their husbands for life. Others think nothing of inviting the mini cab driver who bought them home in for a "coffee" or competing with their mates over how many men they can shag on a weeks holiday in Benidorm.

Some women would be quite happy with a sex for rent arrangement, it might even develop into marriage. It's not unknown for men on holiday in Asia to marry bar girls and bring them back to their own country.

I would find it unacceptable for a woman who couldn't pay her rent to be pressurised into sex to avoid eviction or a landlord to suggest such an arrangement to an existing tenant who hadn't clearly indicated that was what she wanted.

If the advert is upfront with the terms and the prospective tenant agrees then I can see no problem.

Krystal n chips
15th Sep 2018, 05:08
You must live in London. The fees charged elsewhere barely cover the cost of dealing with the application process let alone make a profit. And rent in advance is perfectly reasonable; I give you the keys to a house, give me some money....

Oh I forgot you're a socialist.

Well you got the last part correct ....but now comes the more complex bit.

Currently located not far from Derby, Derby being some considerable distance from London you may wish to note and the lady in question lives in Nottingham.

The months rent in advance ?....yep, I think I can just about understand this concept...paying in advance for any form of rental agreement is a standard practice .

Which leads to the bit you failed to grasp, or rather lament over, the so called "administrative fees" ...these thoughtful " add ons " produce a nice little revenue stream to the extent they can be a barrier to people wishing, or needing, to rent and lets face it, how long does it take Ms Vacuous or Mr Vapid " actually I'm in property, mwah " ....these being generalisations of those engaged in this industry given they aren't exactly shining examples of cognitive development to do say a credit check or print out some already prepared paperwork plus, if these fees are as minimal as you seem to think, why has even this Gov't now introduced legislation to negate these extortionate charges?.