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ORAC
13th Sep 2018, 07:49
Don’t you love euphemisms?

Now that China has aircraft carriers and Japan wants to turn its “destroyers” into “mother ships*” - Korea wants aircraft carrying “transport ships”. Still, it’s different to a “through deck cruiser”.......

* https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/520820-new-japanese-carrier-5.html?highlight=Japan+carrier#post10157904

Marine Corps mulls new transport ship, UAVs to reinforce amphibious capabilities (http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2018/09/12/0200000000AEN20180912006500315.html)

Marine Corps mulls new transport ship, UAVs to reinforce amphibious capabilities

SEOUL, Sept. 12 (Yonhap) -- The Marine Corps is considering introducing a large transport ship capable of carrying warplanes, and mobilizing unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to enhance its amphibious operations and surveillance capabilities, its chief said Wednesday.

During his keynote speech at a security seminar, Lt. Gen. Jun Jin-goo also expressed his desire to capitalize on robotics and other cutting-edge technologies to enhance the marines' maritime power projection capabilities. "We are considering building the LPX (large platform experimental)-type ship capable of carrying aircraft in close cooperation with the Navy," Jun said.

He did not specify what aircraft will be carried by the envisioned ship. But observers say that the commander might have in mind the F-35B, a short takeoff and vertical landing variant of the U.S.-made radar-evading fighter........

Obi Wan Russell
13th Sep 2018, 08:38
So they want a bigger version of this?https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/dokdo4b_82b0c6d5bbfc8ef8c5a785c9ea80331a6f760933.jpg

ORAC
13th Sep 2018, 10:28
Or like this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_America_(LHA-6)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x805/31283235366_2cc18b7efc_b_fd71b8d48852042da20f471ea510ccb0a9e 529de.jpg

dook
13th Sep 2018, 10:38
I wonder what Little Fat Rocket Man will want.

orca
13th Sep 2018, 13:13
Someone stop them! Can they not see? The road is marked ‘Aircraft Carriers’ but that way only lies financial ruin and doom at the hand of easily bought and operated weapon systems.

orca
13th Sep 2018, 13:17
Of course, the USN, USMC, Russians, Chinese, Italians, Indians, Spanish, French and UK all made the same mistake.

Perhaps worthy of wider debate.😉

friartuck
13th Sep 2018, 15:05
Seems an odd buy for S Korea.... the NK forces are right outside Seoul - not half way across the Pacific. They have no colonies or even ex-Colonies ..... what benefit do they bring?

Japan I can see has a case but the RSK is closely surrounded by three much larger powers and 1 nutcase - it's like the Belgians or the Danes deciding they need one .......

MPN11
13th Sep 2018, 16:27
Or like this..What? No Ski Jump? How do they cope?

friartuck
13th Sep 2018, 16:45
If Korean Matelots are anything like the Korean businessmen I deal with they won't need any training from the RN for their first visit to Jacksonville Beach.......

sandiego89
13th Sep 2018, 16:45
Seems an odd buy for S Korea.... the NK forces are right outside Seoul - not half way across the Pacific. They have no colonies or even ex-Colonies ..... what benefit do they bring?

.......

Perhaps the obvious? Ships can move around, unlike air bases and ports. Even in a defensive or close fought war (or humanitarian relief) there can be advantages in being mobile....

KenV
13th Sep 2018, 17:10
Seems an odd buy for S Korea.... the NK forces are right outside Seoul - not half way across the Pacific. They have no colonies or even ex-Colonies ..... what benefit do they bring?Consider who is being quoted. This is the head of the S Korean Marine Corps, which is primarily responsible for amphibious operations. Consider the Inchon landings during the last war. Being able to strike deeply in your enemy's rear can be very very powerful militarily. He thinks such a ship will help him do that.

Fareastdriver
13th Sep 2018, 19:37
It's their money. They can do what they like with it.

Navaleye
14th Sep 2018, 04:37
I doubt if Dokdo could operate the. Short deck, no ski jump. A bit like trying to operate Harriers off HMS Ocean, but worse.

tartare
14th Sep 2018, 05:11
Don't do it.
Why?
Two letters - two numbers.
DF-21.

friartuck
14th Sep 2018, 07:27
Consider who is being quoted. This is the head of the S Korean Marine Corps, which is primarily responsible for amphibious operations. Consider the Inchon landings during the last war. Being able to strike deeply in your enemy's rear can be very very powerful militarily. He thinks such a ship will help him do that.

Good point Ken - I guess "don't ask a barber if you need a haircut" applies...

glad rag
14th Sep 2018, 12:11
Or like this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_America_(LHA-6)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x805/31283235366_2cc18b7efc_b_fd71b8d48852042da20f471ea510ccb0a9e 529de.jpg


Wonder if the airframes cost more than the tub?

glad rag
14th Sep 2018, 12:12
So they want a bigger version of this?https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/dokdo4b_82b0c6d5bbfc8ef8c5a785c9ea80331a6f760933.jpg


So what gives with half the bow railings up and half down?

friartuck
14th Sep 2018, 13:02
blowing up the picture you can see the two items to the right of the Goalkeeper (or whatever) look like TV camera's - so the Great God PR probably wanted a nice railing-less shot of the ship cleaving the deep blue seas...................

NutLoose
14th Sep 2018, 14:55
Lt. Gen. Jun Jin-goo

Would that be old Sticky? :E

Perhaps they need to dust off the old skyhook concept tested on the Harrier

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1498x970/save0161_jpg_4892d2dd4b32a52a7dda61894732ac9f_c1257e798ca55d aaae725b35ea7b1926696fc3be.jpg

NutLoose
14th Sep 2018, 15:03
Or the decidedly ropey system they utilized during the war.... It worked, but the terms stuff that for a game of soldiers comes to mind.

see

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/593546-Piper-Cub-Aircarft-Carrier-s-that-Won-the-War!-Forums

Obi Wan Russell
14th Sep 2018, 19:22
Would that be old Sticky? :E

Perhaps they need to dust off the old skyhook concept tested on the Harrier

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1498x970/save0161_jpg_4892d2dd4b32a52a7dda61894732ac9f_c1257e798ca55d aaae725b35ea7b1926696fc3be.jpg

Skyhook was always a non starter, because in every illustration of the mother ship, there's a clearly visible Helipad, and Harriers can land on them without all the bother of the long mechanical arm. According to D.K. Brown, the support facilities for one or two aircraft are the same as those for six, so it makes no sense to base less than that number on a ship, by which point you are already into small carrier territory and full length flight decks.

ORAC
14th Sep 2018, 20:09
Skyhook was always a non starter, because in every illustration of the mother ship, there's a clearly visible Helipad, and Harriers can land on them without all the bother of the long mechanical arm. IIRC the point of the Skyhook was to permit aircraft operations from a frigate sized deck when the sea state was so high that the roll made normal deck movement impossible. The skyhook was gyrostabilised so it remained steady regardless of the ship movement.

In the same way the rationale for the “through deck cruiser” was to have an aircraft capable ship on the edges of the outer screen to allow a Bear D to be intercepted as it slipped in and out of cover targeting the CTG for submarine launched missiles - a frigate would be able to serve the same purpose.

No need for more than one or two - the same role as performed by the Cat launched Hurricanes in WWII.

glad rag
14th Sep 2018, 20:15
blowing up the picture you can see the two items to the right of the Goalkeeper (or whatever) look like TV camera's - so the Great God PR probably wanted a nice railing-less shot of the ship cleaving the deep blue seas...................

I thought they were welded on dispenser launchers at first glance actually...

ORAC
23rd Jul 2019, 06:36
And so happens......

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/07/22/south-korea-to-build-ship-for-short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing-aircraft/

South Korea to build ship for STOVL aircraft

SEOUL — South Korea is to launch a new version of a large-deck landing ship from which short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing aircraft can operate by the late 2020s, amid naval buildups in China and Japan (https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/05/31/much-to-chinas-ire-japans-regional-influence-is-becoming-the-norm/).

The decision was made during a July 12 meeting of top brass presided over by Gen. Park Han-ki, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Anti-Japanese sentiment in South Korea is gaining traction over Tokyo’s export restrictions on high-tech materials to South Korea.

“The plan of building the LPH-II ship has been included in a long-term force buildup plan,” said a spokesman for the Joint Chiefs, speaking on condition of anonymity and using an acronym for “landing platform helicopter.”

“Once a preliminary research is completed within a couple of years, the shipbuilding plan is expected to be included in the midterm acquisition list,” the spokesman added.

The new LPH is to displace 30,000 tons, double the capacity of the previous two LPHs — Dokdo and Marado — with 14,500 tons of displacement. The carrier-type vessel is also bigger than the 27,000 tons associated with Japan’s Izumo-class helicopter destroyers.

“It’s the first time that a light aircraft carrier-class ship is pursued under South Korea’s force improvement plans,” Kim Dae-young, an analyst at the Seoul-based Korea Research Institute for National Strategy, told Defense News. “It’s also a symbolic and meaningful step to upgrade the country’s naval capability against potential threats posed by Japan and China.”.......

Asturias56
23rd Jul 2019, 13:40
I just can't see where they'll use it - they sit right in the middle of he area and its all easily accessible from land

ORAC
11th Oct 2019, 10:00
Alert 5 » These are the two aircraft carrier designs South Korea is considering - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/10/11/these-are-the-two-aircraft-carrier-designs-south-korea-is-considering/)These are the two aircraft carrier designs South Korea is consideringTwo aircraft carrier solutions are being studied by South Korea’s military. The first is a 70,000 ton design that can carry 32 fighters along with 8 helicopters while the second design is 40,000 with 12 fighters and 8 helicopters. The bigger ship will require nearly 1400 personnel to operate while the smaller vessel requires halve the manpower.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/560x261/2019101009377644381_1_36385921834c325c7d3007eb8696df60285ebd 6c.jpg

https://news.mt.co.kr/mtview.php?no=2019101009377644381

sandiego89
11th Oct 2019, 13:51
Alert 5 » These are the two aircraft carrier designs South Korea is considering - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/10/11/these-are-the-two-aircraft-carrier-designs-south-korea-is-considering/)These are the two aircraft carrier designs South Korea is consideringTwo aircraft carrier solutions are being studied by South Korea’s military. The first is a 70,000 ton design that can carry 32 fighters along with 8 helicopters while the second design is 40,000 with 12 fighters and 8 helicopters. The bigger ship will require nearly 1400 personnel to operate while the smaller vessel requires halve the manpower.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/560x261/2019101009377644381_1_36385921834c325c7d3007eb8696df60285ebd 6c.jpg

https://news.mt.co.kr/mtview.php?no=2019101009377644381

Hmm both those look quite like a cat and trap with an angled deck. Bigger aspirations than a STOVL from a LHA type?

ORAC
25th Jul 2020, 07:02
South Korea to buy 20 F-35Bs under phase 2 of FX III ? Alert 5 (http://alert5.com/2020/07/25/south-korea-to-buy-20-f-35bs-under-phase-2-of-fx-iii/)

South Korea to buy 20 F-35Bs under phase 2 of FX III

Media reports from South Korea says Seoul has decided that it will buy 20 F-35B stealth fighters for the phase 2 of its FX III fighter program.

The country bought 40 F-35A fighters under phase of the FX III. The original plan was to buy another 20 A models so that the Air Force could replace its aging F-4 and F-5 fighters with 60 F-35As. This plan is now disrupted as the new F-35Bs are slated to operate from a new aircraft carrier that Seoul intends to commission into service in the next decade.

Last year, it was reported that the country is studying two aircraft carrier designs, one is a 70,000 ton design that can carry 32 fighters along with 8 helicopters while the second design is 40,000 ton carrying 12 fighters and 8 helicopters. However, these two designs uses the Catapult Assisted Take-Off Barrier Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) approach.

The move to buy the F-35B could signal that the country is leaning towards the Short Take-Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) configuration that is employed by Britain, Italy and Spain for their carriers.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/560x261/image_434b22dfe4012ff24c26771fe9220c35df904cef.jpeg

Asturias56
25th Jul 2020, 08:41
The RN might sell/rent them a carrier..................

Imagegear
25th Jul 2020, 09:21
Sorry, already spoken for following the recent crisping up of one of their Wasp class.

IG

Asturias56
26th Jul 2020, 08:14
But the RN have two ................. unless the Brazilians have first call???

ORAC
10th Aug 2020, 07:11
South Korea?s 2021-2025 defense blueprint reveals plan for light aircraft carrier and indigenous Iron Dome system ? Alert 5 (http://alert5.com/2020/08/10/south-koreas-2021-2025-defense-blueprint-reveals-plan-for-light-aircraft-carrier-and-indigenous-iron-dome-system/)

South Korea’s 2021-2025 defense blueprint reveals plan for light aircraft carrier and indigenous Iron Dome system

South Korea’s Ministry of Defense has revealed its 2021-2025 mid-term defense blueprint today. The ministry says it will start the process to acquire a light aircraft carrier from next year and to develop an indigenous Iron Dome missile interceptor system.

A graphic handed out by the ministry shows the light aircraft carrier that is similar in shape and size to the U.S. amphibious assault ships. However, it has a longer island and two smoke funnels instead of one. There is no angle deck or catapult system. Confirmation that the ship will be equipped with the F-35B instead......


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/659x420/image_ef66b07060a59863593c742d064f69f7473c6979.jpeg

ORAC
5th Jan 2021, 07:10
Final design of South Korea?s light aircraft carrier ? Alert 5 (http://alert5.com/2021/01/05/final-design-of-south-koreas-light-aircraft-carrier/)

Final design of South Korea’s light aircraft carrier


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/560x315/image_9c0ac003c39ac045f78524560a140b572e9f7465.jpeg


South Korea’s JoongAng Ilbo daily newspaper has obtained a computer rendering of the final design of the light aircraft carrier that Seoul plans to build. While sources in the Navy claims that this is not the final design, there will not be much changes to the appearance of the ship in the final form.The carrier is based on the America-class and British Queen Elizabeth-class. It will not have a ski-jump or well deck like USS America. It will have two islands similiar to the British carrier. While one island is for navigating the ship and the other for flight deck control. The South Koreans are adopting two islands so that one island can still operate the ship if the other is damaged during an attack.

The aircraft elevators are both on the starboard side. This approach was chosen in order to give more space to the flight deck.

The carrier will not have an organic airborne early warning capability, the task force will rely on a destroyer with powerful radar to scan the skies while F-35Bs will provide additional air surveillance coverage if necessary. The daily says this concept mirrors the Italian approach that will be practice on ITS Cavour.

For protection against airborne threats, the ship will be armed with a Close-In Weapons System (CIWS) and the Surface-to-Air Anti-Missile (SAAM) from LIG Nex1.

For more information, hit the Source below

Source (https://news.joins.com/article/23960666)

ORAC
12th Jun 2021, 08:17
https://inf.news/en/military/3ebf76ad3c1b9cf8301406cce65d039d.html

https://www.defensenews.com/industry/techwatch/2021/06/11/south-korean-shipbuilders-unveil-competing-carrier-designs/

South Korean shipbuilders unveil competing carrier designs

BUSAN, South Korea — Two shipbuilders have each displayed their conceptual designs for the South Korean Navy’s future light aircraft carrier, code-named CVX.

The South Korean companies unveiled their offerings at the four-day International Maritime Defense Industry Exhibition, a biennial naval defense show, which began June 9 in the southern port city of Busan.

The MADEX show is taking place four months after South Korea’s arms procurement agency announced the government tentatively earmarked about $2 billion to build a homemade 30,000-ton aircraft carrier to enter service by 2033. The Defense Ministry is conducting a feasibility study of the project for final approval by the National Assembly.

Hyundai Heavy Industries’ model

Hyundai Heavy Industries, which had won a contract for the conceptual design of the CVX last year, unveiled an offering that featured a modular, ski jump-styled takeoff ramp, a key feature akin to the British Royal Navy’s Queen Elizabeth class.

The shipyard displayed a 1-to-400 scale model of its proposed carrier, which would be 270 meters long and 60 meters wide. The carrier, with its twin island superstructures, would have a displacement of 30,000-35,000 tons and a full-load displacement of 450,000-500,000 tons, according to an HHI spokesman….

The carrier would be able to carry up to 16 short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing (https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2019/07/22/south-korea-to-build-ship-for-short-takeoff-and-vertical-landing-aircraft/) aircraft on its flight deck and a further eight in its hanger……


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1282x722/image_287111908c4acf754f4befeb07ca39900d9a82a1.jpeg


Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering’s model

Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering showcased a 1-to-125 scale model of its CVX proposal, which also features a twin-island arrangement but no ski jump ramp….

According to the dockyard, the proposed carrier would be 263 meter longs and 46.6 meters wide. It has a full displacement of 45,000 tons with a maximum sailing speed of 27 knots. The carrier would be capable of carrying up to 16 STOVL fighter jets on its flight deck and 12 more in its hanger.….


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/562x1000/image_945c62a010ac6b1dbeac30ecf84d6b18416ea421.jpeg


https://youtu.be/78Iflmv-dxQ

rattman
12th Jun 2021, 10:11
Apparently I cant post picture

Hyundai one has a deck for launching drones

https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1623333691119-hyundaidrones.png?quality=60

and has a well deck
https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1623333764300-hyundaiwelldeck.png?quality=60

meleagertoo
12th Jun 2021, 12:29
What is the USN/USMC objection to the ski-jump? I read somewhere recently that it is a "political" matter. It seems strange that such an important performance-enhancer is ignored.
Anyone know more?

Not_a_boffin
12th Jun 2021, 12:39
What is the USN/USMC objection to the ski-jump? I read somewhere recently that it is a "political" matter. It seems strange that such an important performance-enhancer is ignored.
Anyone know more?
Suspect it's impact on deck operations. The USN LHD/LHA use every spare foot of flight deck for safe parking.

A ski jump would restrict parking and access to the area forward of the island. When operating lots of different aircraft on what is a relatively small deck, that's an issue.

The other thing to remember is that helo ops are the primary role of those ships. STOVL aircraft are generally only a quarter of the AE on the ship.

West Coast
12th Jun 2021, 14:42
Buffon is on the right track I believe. I did a 6 month cruise as a part of a Marine expeditionary unit many moons ago. As the primary job of the ship was to get Marines ashore, the bulk of the aviation assets were rotary wing with 4 or 5 Harriers attached.

ORAC
9th Jun 2023, 07:19
16,000 ton UAV carrier….

https://twitter.com/sambendett/status/1666932854134042628?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


South Korea's Hanwha Group unveiled this futuristic "Ghost Commander" UAV carrier concept at the #MADEX2023 military expo.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1229x922/image_0c413b4a211d606c8fa927aca96d82e1ef51b281.jpeg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1229x922/image_94314a622d70762c2130c0e977df52d32db29303.jpeg

Sue Vêtements
11th Jun 2023, 13:13
16,000 ton UAV carrier….



South Korea's Hanwha Group unveiled this futuristic "Ghost Commander" UAV carrier concept at the #MADEX2023 military expo.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1229x922/image_0c413b4a211d606c8fa927aca96d82e1ef51b281.jpeg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1229x922/image_94314a622d70762c2130c0e977df52d32db29303.jpeg

Very futuristic, but it doesn't look like they're expecting those UAVs to return

ORAC
11th Jun 2023, 13:50
Top deck is the landing strip - note the cable. Integrated lift to lower deck.

Not sure but it looks like the lower launch deck has integrated EMALS.

Ninthace
11th Jun 2023, 15:39
If Gerry Anderson did aircraft carriers . . .

Sue Vêtements
11th Jun 2023, 17:48
EXACTLY what I thought!

Video Mixdown
11th Jun 2023, 20:37
Indeed - very 'Thunderbirds'. Can anyone see any benefit in having a split-level flight deck? Looks as if it would just complicate things.

Not_a_boffin
12th Jun 2023, 07:57
It's what happens when you let the duty graduate loose with some 3-D rendering.........


They always choose a trimaran, until it's explained to them why that would be a bad idea.

Less Hair
12th Jun 2023, 08:00
Why not fully enlarge the upper deck to gain enough parking space?

Davef68
12th Jun 2023, 14:30
Someone's been watching Captain America movies

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/7f/8c/de7f8c88a8dd29929e1429cbb7dd91aa.png

Ninthace
12th Jun 2023, 14:53
Captain Scarlet got there first!
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