Network Aviation A320

[ActiveLooker]

Heard from a colleague Network have rolled over on their F100 drivers and about to open the doors to external type rated crews. Interested but not willing to be labelled a scab like the 89 days. Anyone got any intel??

[Lapon]

I thought the 320 spots had always gone external?
In any case there is/was no seniority system so I can't see how it's any different to when new hires would join onto the F100 vs the Bras in years gone by.

[Capn Bloggs]

Standby for a move...

[geeup]

Are we still standing by or has something moved?

[Capn Bloggs]

We are! The mods are slipping.. ;)

[tail wheel]

Not really Bloggsie! :}

I was waiting to see whether this thread was simply a question, no news value (thus belongs here) or whether it was going to develop into a news statement of fact or rumour.

It was simply a question........... :ok:

[dr dre]

I heard not many current F100 drivers were interested in the 320, far more were apparently interested in joining mainline.

[kimbobimbo]

Again these mods are clearly have some issue with NAA. This is a rumour! It happens to have a question at the end asking if the rumour is true!!!

Annnnnnd it happens this rumour is actually true, NAA most likely will hire externally over internal crew yet again. It’s not because people aren’t interested though, they are using the age old “we have to keep our operation on the F100 running” phrase which has been used in the past. They could just put the new hires on the F100 and then promote from the ranks 100%, but this would imply a level of comittment they seem unwilling to show.

There are a LARGE number of staff wanting to go to mainline but so far the only ones that have got the tick are female. There are still plenty of people wanting to upgrade, the process is complicated by the training which involves up to 5 months away in crap hotels with no provision to come home. This is something some people with young family’s are not able to do.

[Bullytactics]

A320 Capt 183 Base + super with OT threshold 65hrs
F100 Capt 165 Base + super with OT threshold 65hrs
Lots of operational improvements implemented and further on the way (full EFB both fleets, centralised load control imminent etc).
Plenty of interest in A320 from internal ranks.
Crewing levels better than most operators at the moment; nothing like the annual leave issues suffered elsewhere.
Mostly 2 sector days finished under 7 hours of duty.
Mostly fly 4 days a week with a standby.
Average 650 hours per year.
Compared with most operations, an engaged and happy workforce.

[Bullytactics]

Again these mods are clearly have some issue with NAA. This is a rumour! It happens to have a question at the end asking if the rumour is true!!!

Annnnnnd it happens this rumour is actually true, NAA most likely will hire externally over internal crew yet again. It’s not because people aren’t interested though, they are using the age old “we have to keep our operation on the F100 running” phrase which has been used in the past. They could just put the new hires on the F100 and then promote from the ranks 100%, but this would imply a level of comittment they seem unwilling to show.

There are a LARGE number of staff wanting to go to mainline but so far the only ones that have got the tick are female. There are still plenty of people wanting to upgrade, the process is complicated by the training which involves up to 5 months away in crap hotels with no provision to come home. This is something some people with young family’s are not able to do.



Not all factual.

1. Introduction rate (timeframe & schedule volume) doesn’t permit 100% fleet transfer - anyone involved in managing fleet introduction & exponential growth in a relatively small operation will tell you that. Have you asked to see the data? No training department would be resourced to manage that kind of volume on the F100 in one hit. The argument to manage experience levels on the F100 is also a sensible one and demonstrates AOC maturity to the regulator. In fact, NAA have placed more internal F100 Pilots on the A320 than originally thought possible, a fact they should be credited for.

2. Training: A320 Type Ratings that are compatible for CASA acceptance are difficult to secure and dovetail with training plans and fleet intro rate. Initial group went either Singapore or Jakarta. Jakarta hotel issue was a by-product of timeframe and internal QF Group commercial agreement issues. That issue has been resolved, now that there’s been time. The Melbourne hotel is that used by Group company Jetstar, unavoidable due commercial agreement issues. Furthermore, if deemed unsuitable (“crap” as you put it), why have your Union representatives for both entities (JQ and NAA) not addressed this within JQ?
The choice to stay home with family rather than accept an A320 position and associated time away for training rests solely with the individual. There is no 320 TR provider in Perth. This is not the fault of NAA.

[Change Management]

Congrats bully, you are cheaper than everyone else

[exfocx]

Bullytactics,

I personally know about a dozen NW drivers (1/2 capts, 1/2 FOs) and I wouldn't call the capts happy! The FOs who are happy have come out of GA and have nothing jet wise to compare it to, the others are not so happy. As to rostering the story I'm told is you're worked hard, from early starts one day to late finishes the next, with tiredness a real issue.

What I hear on AL is that it's very difficult to get leave approved.

[volare_737]

Whats the possibility of current 320 crew to get a foot in to the door ??

[Bullytactics]

Bullytactics,

I personally know about a dozen NW drivers (1/2 capts, 1/2 FOs) and I wouldn't call the capts happy! The FOs who are happy have come out of GA and have nothing jet wise to compare it to, the others are not so happy. As to rostering the story I'm told is you're worked hard, from early starts one day to late finishes the next, with tiredness a real issue.

What I hear on AL is that it's very difficult to get leave approved.

I’m sorry, but the nature of this reply speaks for itself.
it comes down to ones definition of “working hard”

[geeup]

F100 $165k plus OT @ 65hrs.

If crews are only working 4 days a week and 2 sectors. I’m guessing no OT?

Also with the above days & sectors I would have assumed no requirement for more pilots? And yet recruiting.

Is it just me or something doesn’t fit?

[exfocx]

Bullytatics,

Your rostered duty is only locked in, inside of 7 days, so do as they please with roster changes the norm. You start and finish at all hours with S/Os from 3.30am to late finishes. Actual duty hrs are not always a good indicator of "working hard". One of the "complainers" would be best describe as a "company man" type!

No comment I see on the AL situation!

[Jetdream]

So with no seniority, how do they choose who goes to the 320 from the F100 drivers?

[Icarus2001]

They could just put the new hires on the F100 and then promote from the ranks 100%, but this would imply a level of comittment they seem unwilling to show.

By doing that you have now doubled the training load. Direct entry to type creates one training position, intake to F100 and internal move to A320 creates two training positions. That is one reason companies like DE.

[Brakerider]

By doing that you have now doubled the training load. Direct entry to type creates one training position, intake to F100 and internal move to A320 creates two training positions. That is one reason companies like DE.

Line training for the 320 is done by JQ, which is a huge load of the network training department.

[Bullytactics]

Launching with any realistic commercial schedule viability commensurate with realistic Training and Checking capability in early phases; means using a third party for bulk line experience makes perfect sense. QF did it with A330 and B787 in recent times as an example.

75% line training load has been done at JQ with remaining 25% at NWK; perfectly matches the T & C resourcing compliment and sector / hour ratio between the two organisations.

[volare_737]

I see they are advertising for F100 / 320 Captains on the Qantas website. Would be interesting to know at what start dates they are looking at for the 320 position.

[Icarus2001]

Line training for the 320 is done by JQ, which is a huge load of the network training department. That really is terrific but has no bearing on my post. It does not matter who the supplier is, if you create two training slots it costs more.

[Brakerider]

That really is terrific but has no bearing on my post. It does not matter who the supplier is, if you create two training slots it costs more.

I'm not disagreeing, rather supporting your argument that it's even easier for them to hire directly to the 320.

[kimbobimbo]

Hi Bully thanks for the post,

Are you suggesting that NAA should be commended for not hiring direct onto the A320? You have pilots with significant time on type, why wouldn’t you promote these people?? I agree it’s been pleasantly surprising that some people have been promoted onto the type. Assuming the company’s growth is planned and measured then this should continue.

With regards to the accomodation I can only go off what I’ve heard but the provided accomodation is suitable for short stays, not months and months of living. Network usually provides accomodation at the Quest for endorsements (suitable for long stays), why then are staff being put up at Mantra?
I won’t comment on the Jakarta hotel, I’ll leave that to people who experienced the happy ending...

Icarus, I understand the cost involved in internal promotion. This is a cost most companies wear as a matter of doing business, Qantas is posting billions in profit so I really don’t see how this is of particular concern. It really comes down to the company choice in this case, as they are not bound by EBA requirements, and as a result they can be judged by their actions.

[dr dre]

Compared with most operations, an engaged and happy workforce.



Then why did almost 50% of Current crew apply for mainline?

​​
There are a LARGE number of staff wanting to go to mainline but so far the only ones that have got the tick are female.

True with the first bit but the second half? Absolutely false.

[Capt_CheeseDick]

Why do the Mods keep shunting Network threads into the GA section?
Last I looked, they were one of the Regional Airlines of Australia, not GA.