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The Range
30th Aug 2018, 14:51
It was probably lack of food and/or water.
Ryanair should review their no-food, no-water policy with their crews.

​​​​​​https://finance.yahoo.com/m/bad0beaa-ac55-3324-b6e6-59c6e27d003e/ss_ryanair-co-pilot-faints.html

er340790
30th Aug 2018, 15:29
Maybe. Though I can't help but think he had just read his T&Cs of employment properly for the first time.

italian stallion
30th Aug 2018, 15:33
Fainted at the sight of his new payslip? Just curious...

Evanelpus
30th Aug 2018, 16:03
think he had just read his T&Cs

Fainted at the sight of his new payslip?

I can't see anything in the links which says the gender is a man.......is there something you both know?

ShamrockF
30th Aug 2018, 16:05
I can't see anything in the links which says the gender is a man.......is there something you both know?

The article links to a Fox News article which states his gender.

arketip
30th Aug 2018, 16:15
It was probably lack of food and/or water.
Ryanair should review their no-food, no-water policy with their crews.

Man, a whole 3 hours without a meal, how can anyone survive that.

BluSdUp
30th Aug 2018, 16:21
Hi
Could any of you FR24 experts dig up and post the approach and go-around track. With vertical profile.?
FR 3918.
All well that ends well. Good job!
I do want to land ASAP if Jr passes out BUT in the 737 an unconscious pilot needs to be reStrained so not to interfere with the controls on short final and landing.
On a Airbus not so much a problem,except for the feet.!?

Not something you want to deal with on short final.
Palermo on a dark and stormy night is not for the fainthearted , no pun intended!

Again : Good Job Cpt.
Safe regards
Cpt B

Doug E Style
30th Aug 2018, 16:50
in the 737 an unconscious pilot needs to be retrained so not to interfere with the controls on short final and landing.


That could take a while.

Herod
30th Aug 2018, 17:07
Man, a whole 3 hours without a meal, how can anyone survive that.

Where does that come from? Quite possibly it was the third or even fourth sector. It could have been seven or more hours, maybe without a coffee or even water. We don't know the facts; don't jump to conclusions.

Airbubba
30th Aug 2018, 17:19
Hi
Could any of you FR24 experts dig up and post the approach and go-around track. With vertical profile.?
FR 3918.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1132x563/fr3918_2cffd38b22a0974322ea2b90bf45ae8104bd1a4c.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/2000x619/fr3918_2_d79257679e21240dfd62ad08dad57f6b4d150add.jpg

BluSdUp
30th Aug 2018, 18:52
Thanks Airbubba.
And many thanks Doug E, that was one of my better splelling mistakes.
I am now retraining myself and correcting.
Humbly
Cpt b

arketip
30th Aug 2018, 20:31
Where does that come from? Quite possibly it was the third or even fourth sector. It could have been seven or more hours, maybe without a coffee or even water. We don't know the facts; don't jump to conclusions.

Well, is the OP that jumped to conclusions, saying that it was probably because of lack of food or water.

Denti
31st Aug 2018, 18:37
Lack of food is not really an issue if the person in question is otherwise healthy. However, lack of water certainly is. And depending on sequence of duty, lack of coffee or other stuff that wakes you up as well. Shouldn't happen, but i believe caffeine is mentioned in every fatigue risk training i have ever witnessed. Not as a long term solution, but to help in a pinch.

That mentioned, of course the number of possible issues that might cause someone to faint are numerous. I hope the FO in question recovered quickly and has no lasting problems over that.

750XL
31st Aug 2018, 18:52
If he's incapable of bringing a packed lunch to work then he shouldn't be flying an aircraft.

rog747
31st Aug 2018, 21:02
Just flew last month SOU-Verona-SOU on a Dash 8 - quite a longish sector for anyone in the prop - flying time, upto 2 hours 30 minutes

On both legs I never saw the Cabin crew once go in the FD with any drinks (or food), hot or cold - and on the way home to SOU I found that all the crew had operated down from GLA early that morning, and then were doing SOU-VRN-SOU, so a 3 sector day (not sure if positioning back, or Hotac in SOU)

My point is, on these 3 sectors I knew the crew were delayed from the outset of their early start day and so then endured quick turnarounds at both SOU and then again at VRN (remote stand and 35c temps) so where was their chance to sit down relax even for 10 minutes, have a bite to eat, and a drink?
The cabin crew were certainly not providing anything upfront nor checking on them in-flights.
On boarding at VRN we were faced with 'sit down quick you lot, or we lose out slot' barked at us by the CC as if it was all our fault - The skipper on the other hand, was calm and apologetic and worked hard with all the agencies to get a new slot for us within 10 minutes, rather than the 3 hours possible delay which we were told on boarding could happen.

So how these guys upfront (and the CC) got any sustenance and rest at anytime that day until they landed at SOU at 1525 beggars belief. (although the CC were down the back with the curtain closed for much of the flights, as there was barely any in-flight service provided)

In the past on a 3 sector day like that there would have been a hot crew meal on at least two of those sectors, plus sandwiches, snacks etc wherever you wanted it or not...

Any wonder why nowadays Crews are fed up, grumpy and get sick & ill...OK crew food then was often nowt to shout about but it was there, as were Pax meals to eat if any left.
Airline managements sew what they reap I'm afraid.

And do you really think a knackered crew member is going to make his/hers packed lunch everyday and pop it into a Tupperware box every morning at 4am when he wakes up on his 4th early? Nooooo.
Come on!

tsgas
1st Sep 2018, 00:43
As far as no meal service, it's Karma, pax complained for years about the lousy airline meals. Now the airlines don't have complaints about the nonexistent meals , nor the expense of expensive catering and unappreciative pax.

Capn Bloggs
1st Sep 2018, 04:35
If he's incapable of bringing a packed lunch to work then he shouldn't be flying an aircraft.
Yep, sign on at 0400 with your (personally made?) chicken/ham/beef/dead fish sambo for consumption at 1200. What is this, the dark ages?

Herod
1st Sep 2018, 07:45
Yep, sign on at 0400 with your (personally made?) chicken/ham/beef/dead fish sambo for consumption at 1200. What is this, the dark ages?

Quite apart from the fact that you probably wouldn't get it through security

One thing a daily visit to Pprune does is make me appreciate what the good times were like, and how lucky I am to be retired.

Denti
1st Sep 2018, 08:04
Quite apart from the fact that you probably wouldn't get it through security

One thing a daily visit to Pprune does is make me appreciate what the good times were like, and how lucky I am to be retired.

Most airlines still feed their staff on board, even low cost ones. Especially as EASA FTL makes it quite clear that there have to be meal opportunities (which actually doesn't mean food, just time to consume it).

That said, going without food is not any issue at all, if the person in question is otherwise healthy. However, going without anything to drink is a huge issue, or without sufficient sleep.

Uplinker
1st Sep 2018, 08:59
I am not having a go at you sir, (rog747), because I agree with you, but some replies to your comments:

.............
On both legs I never saw the Cabin crew once go in the FD with any drinks (or food), hot or cold.............

They probably each chose a sandwich from the cool bag of crew food provided when they boarded the aircraft initially, and were probably given a big bottle of water each to last the day..


..................So how these guys upfront (and the CC) got any sustenance and rest at anytime that day until they landed at SOU at 1525 beggars belief. (although the CC were down the back with the curtain closed for much of the flights, as there was barely any in-flight service provided)

Welcome to low cost flying !! This is the reality folks.
No actual rest time, I agree, but they would eat their sandwich in the cruise. (That’s what the Autopilot is really for !)



In the past on a 3 sector day like that there would have been a hot crew meal on at least two of those sectors, plus sandwiches, snacks etc wherever you wanted it or not...

In the past, sensible prices were paid for tickets !



Any wonder why nowadays Crews are fed up, grumpy and get sick & ill...OK crew food then was often nowt to shout about but it was there, as were Pax meals to eat if any left.
Yep, no wonder at all. (But remember also that we have to wake up at 0300-0400 or not get to bed until 0100-0200 four to six days in a row). Slightly different to the average 9-5. We were not technically allowed to eat pax meals. Don’t ask me why.


Airline managements sew what they reap I'm afraid. You meant < reap what they sow > :ok:

Passengers have been conditioned by the LoCos to expect to pay ridiculously low prices for a seat on an airliner. Less than other forms of transport for the equivalent distance and time.

RVF750
1st Sep 2018, 11:58
And you'd be lucky getting a hot meal on an aircraft that doesn't have ovens......

rog747
1st Sep 2018, 16:45
LOL Thanks Uplinker - I got a bit tired by the end of my post - very kind of you to have complete empathy with me and check me out!

Regards

(Like Herod, I too lament our retirement) - is that the right word?

beachbumflyer
1st Sep 2018, 19:17
If he's incapable of bringing a packed lunch to work then he shouldn't be flying an aircraft.

He shouldn't have to bring his own lunch, it should be provided by the company, like in the real airlines and in the good old times.
750, pilots like you -if you are a pilot- is the reason why the pilot profession is how it is now and keeps going down the tubes.

750XL
1st Sep 2018, 20:33
Yep, sign on at 0400 with your (personally made?) chicken/ham/beef/dead fish sambo for consumption at 1200. What is this, the dark ages?

Millions of people across the world manage it so why can't pilots? I can't remember the last time I saw a train driver being served a hot meal in his cab :*

He shouldn't have to bring his own lunch, it should be provided by the company, like in the real airlines and in the good old times.

Why shouldn't he bring his own lunch?

Herod
1st Sep 2018, 21:15
Why shouldn't he bring his own lunch?

Equally, why should he have to eat at his desk?

The Range
1st Sep 2018, 21:38
Well, is the OP that jumped to conclusions, saying that it was probably because of lack of food or water.

You're right, may be it wasn't lack of food and/or water. It could have been that he had just received notice that the following day he had to move to his
new base in Krakakistan, at his own expense. :eek:

750XL
1st Sep 2018, 21:53
Equally, why should he have to eat at his desk?

Because it's his job :*

sonicbum
1st Sep 2018, 22:59
Whilst I strongly support the fact that all the airlines should provide proper meals to their crew, it is also true that if You do not have any food with You (forgot/left it in the car/last minute stby scramble call) and the airline does not provide it (profit baby) You have to mitigate the adverse effects of low blood sugar by buying some sort of edible junk on board together with a couple bottles of water. I know it is damn annoying and You start swearing as loud as You can but You have to do something about it anyway. By the way, is it confirmed the the poor chap fainted as a result of low blood sugar/thirst ?

Biggles78
2nd Sep 2018, 05:36
Because it's his job :*

You gotta be shitting me, "Because it's his job?" I think his/her job is to fly the aircraft from point A to point B and safely deliver the passengers there with the added bonus that the aircraft can be used again. His/she is not being paid to eat their meal up the pointy end of a multi million dollar machine filled with a couple of hundred paying passengers. Just ask the train drivers where they eat their lunch and it won't be in a moving piece of machinery.

750XL appears to have the attitude of a former powered student pilot who couldn't go solo and as such moved to gliders. I mean no offence or disrespect to those glider aficionado who take great joy, pleasure and excel in their fine machines. I have met many like 750XL who hung around the aero club on the Sunday night bar sessions who did nothing but rubbish powered pilots because they couldn't make the grade.

Hawker 800
2nd Sep 2018, 06:43
750XL appears to have the attitude of a former powered student pilot who couldn't go solo and as such moved to gliders. I mean no offence or disrespect to those glider aficionado who take great joy, pleasure and excel in their fine machines. I have met many like 750XL who hung around the aero club on the Sunday night bar sessions who did nothing but rubbish powered pilots because they couldn't make the grade.

Youve hit the nail on the head there. He’s a dispatcher/handler (probably Manchester) or the like with an attitude problem. Better he sticks to leftover catering than eats it up front.

He obviously has a thing against crews getting fed, judging by his past posts.

https://www.pprune.org/cabin-crew/589625-sacked-sandwich.html#post9642768

This poor chap would have done well to drink a coke or two.

arketip
2nd Sep 2018, 07:25
By the way, is it confirmed the the poor chap fainted as a result of low blood sugar/thirst ?

No. But "The Range" thinks so, or in alternative is because he received a base transfer, but mainly is just because he works for Ryanair:rolleyes:

arketip
2nd Sep 2018, 07:29
Equally, why should he have to eat at his desk?

In your airline (or any of the other better airlines) that provide food for their pilots, do the pilots get a seat and table in the back to eat or do they eat at their desk? Or do they get a break to go to the restaurant?

WilliumMate
2nd Sep 2018, 07:40
Just ask the train drivers where they eat their lunch and it won't be in a moving piece of machinery.

It often was. Not so much the shiny passenger boys but us rough old freight chaps didn't always have a choice.

Herod
2nd Sep 2018, 07:44
In your airline (or any of the other better airlines) that provide food for their pilots, do the pilots get a seat and table in the back to eat or do they eat at their desk? Or do they get a break to go to the restaurant?

No. I was responding to XL750's comment that he should bring his own lunch. I accept that pilots generally have to eat at their desks, but since they don't have the opportunity to go eat elsewhere (like office workers, shop assistants etc, who get a proper break), they shouldn't have to provide their own food.

I was once with an airline that pushed crews to the duty limit, with no food, and being a small aircraft, meaning that if you brought your own you had to eat it in front of the pax. Six sectors. We got to the stage where crews would get off after sector five, go get something to eat (we weren't unreasonable, just a sandwich and a cup of coffee) and carry on. That put us into discretion. Two crews, two discretion reports a day for two weeks. Crew food was provided.

Now, let's get back to the topic. How is the F.O?

sonicbum
2nd Sep 2018, 09:28
Now, let's get back to the topic. How is the F.O?

Exactly and also let's try to understand the real cause for such an occurrence in order to learn something out of it and prevent it from (possibly) happening again.

Luke258
2nd Sep 2018, 10:44
Do we know which sector that was? I once had to fly 2 sectors according to the roster on day 5 of earlies. Long week, lunch plans after flight, so I only took a tiny breakfast and a small bottle of water. After we landed we've been told to fly 2 more sectors to STN. Picked up a big delay there. Had no food water or money on me to buy myself stuff in the aircraft. And part of me was to proud and pissed to ask anyone for money to buy at ridiculous high prices.

Nemrytter
2nd Sep 2018, 12:20
but since they don't have the opportunity to go eat elsewhere (like office workers, shop assistants etc, who get a proper break), they shouldn't have to provide their own food. What an odd line of logic.

NABLAG
2nd Sep 2018, 12:32
This will give you a laugh:

Luas is a tram/light rail system in Dublin

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/luas-strike-pay-packed-lunch-15094246

The issue of packed lunches for Luas drivers could lead to strike - and may end up costing the taxpayer Ä250,000.

Siptu has told the Labour court recent work changes linked to the new Cross City Line are costing drivers money because it is more inconvenient for them to bring packed lunches to work.


The trade union representing drivers said anyone starting their day in the Sandyford depot has to take their lunch in Broombridge in Cabra.
This means drivers' lunches spoil because they have to carry their food with them on the Luas for hours, according to Siptu.


Luas operator Transdev has offered cooler bags to tram drivers - but Siptu organiser John Murphy said the union wants Green Line drivers to be able to have their lunch at Sandyford.

Transdev told the Labour Court granting this would mean hiring five new drivers at a cost of Ä250,000 a year.
However Mr Murphy said refusal could mean that drivers will ballot on industrial action.

The Labour Court said it was reasonable for a Luas driver to be asked take breaks at a different depot to where their shift started.

It recommended that Transdev carry out a risk assessment to find out if the cooler bags ďare capable of transporting driversí packed lunches safely from one depot to anotherĒ.

Thaihawk
2nd Sep 2018, 13:10
If he's incapable of bringing a packed lunch to work then he shouldn't be flying an aircraft.

Always assuming that said packed lunch is not confiscated by "security" at some point during the day.

Squiffy Pussy
2nd Sep 2018, 13:38
In all my years as a heavy four jet Captain the company supplied meals on board. All Concorde catering, on china plates and silver plated cutlery.

This is a ridiculous situation and one of the many reasons I quit the airlines after just four years.

750XL
2nd Sep 2018, 13:41
Youve hit the nail on the head there. He’s a dispatcher/handler (probably Manchester) or the like with an attitude problem. Better he sticks to leftover catering than eats it up front.


Good effort, but incorrect.

If you're telling me Ryanair crew would rather eat an airline provided meal (:yuk:) than something brought from home then you're deluded. It takes no more than 10 minutes to stuff some food down your throat even on a 12 hour day.

People manage it all across the globe in a variety of different jobs.Always assuming that said packed lunch is not confiscated by "security" at some point during the day.

If they're qualified to fly a big pointy thing with a few engines then I'm sure they can comply with the very simple security rules, which hundreds of thousands of passengers manage every day, then you'll be just fine.

Capn Bloggs
2nd Sep 2018, 14:42
Where's the fridge for my chicken sambos again?

arketip
2nd Sep 2018, 15:04
Where's the fridge for my chicken sambos again?

Probably the same place they would keep the food that everybody wants provided by the airline?

sonicbum
2nd Sep 2018, 15:29
Do we know which sector that was? I once had to fly 2 sectors according to the roster on day 5 of earlies. Long week, lunch plans after flight, so I only took a tiny breakfast and a small bottle of water. After we landed we've been told to fly 2 more sectors to STN. Picked up a big delay there. Had no food water or money on me to buy myself stuff in the aircraft. And part of me was to proud and pissed to ask anyone for money to buy at ridiculous high prices.

C'mon man, You must have some money with You at least to buy Yourself a sandwich and a bottle of water, You never know what can happen. What if the aircraft went AOG after Your first sector ?

sonicbum
2nd Sep 2018, 15:34
If you're telling me Ryanair crew would rather eat an airline provided meal (:yuk:) than something brought from home then you're deluded.

That is a pretty sensible statement. If they were obliged to provide some crew food I am quite sure nobody would dare to eat it anyway *unless* there would be specific instructions on the type and variety of food to be provided like in many major carriers, where You can actually choose the type of food You want to eat. Other than that You can probably expect some plastic sandwiches fully loaded with preservatives of all kinds.

schweizer2
2nd Sep 2018, 16:01
C'mon man, You must have some money with You at least to buy Yourself a sandwich and a bottle of water, You never know what can happen. What if the aircraft went AOG after Your first sector ?

I'd assume a good employer would take care of their employees regardless of whether or not they have brought cash to work.

sonicbum
2nd Sep 2018, 16:43
I'd assume a good employer would take care of their employees regardless of whether or not they have brought cash to work.

True, but I'd assume an adult professional pilot would have a few bucks in his wallet to buy a sandwich and some water.

Mr Angry from Purley
2nd Sep 2018, 17:53
I'd assume a good employer would take care of their employees regardless of whether or not they have brought cash to work.

Bit like a good employee spending their allowances down route on food ...............

RVF750
2nd Sep 2018, 18:48
If they're qualified to fly a big pointy thing with a few engines then I'm sure they can comply with the very simple security rules, which hundreds of thousands of passengers manage every day, then you'll be just fine.

I take it you've never tried getting through staff search at MAN T1 then?

schweizer2
2nd Sep 2018, 18:49
Bit like a good employee spending their allowances down route on food ...............

I am willing to bet not all flight crews receive a daily allowance for food/water to spend down route.

This argument that is taking over the thread can go both ways, yes a responsible adult should carry some cash but why should he/she have to pay out of his pocket for an AOG? (as an example)

Can't this thread just get back to the status of the FO, any updates? Is he getting better?

AC560
2nd Sep 2018, 18:54
I sit in the back in a paid seat that often times comes with a meal. This on many occasions includes very nice seats on very nice Airlines with theoretically great food. I bring a sandwich, you are welcome to my meal. I do like the free booze though.

simmple
2nd Sep 2018, 19:21
You cant take your own food as security will confiscate it.
you cant buy it down route as the 40 min turn round became 10 due delays and the other 5 sectors you were catching up
eat the pax meals and get sacked for theft.
have a beer 10 hours before turning up at the gate knackered due legal roster.......
the industry is f#£&Ē( and this poor chap is the result
get well soon and to everyone on their £10 ticket enjoy your holiday iwith the belief that nothing can go wrong.

Chesty Morgan
2nd Sep 2018, 20:14
I buy food landside at the airport just before I go through security. Iíve never had any food confiscated. Ever. Iíve flown from pretty much every major UK airport.

There really is no excuse to not look after yourself and make sure youíre properly fed.

sonicbum
2nd Sep 2018, 20:23
Sorry for the thread drift, while waiting to know what really happened to our colleague (I am pretty sure it has nothing to do with the poor lad starving himself anyway), can someone point out what kind of food is likely to be confiscated through security ? Just curious.

Luke258
2nd Sep 2018, 21:08
True, but I'd assume an adult professional pilot would have a few bucks in his wallet to buy a sandwich and some water.
Ever happened to you that you simply forgot to bring cash or your wallet? Glad you're so adult and professional. One could say simply perfect 😊Anyway I'm not going to work assuming I'll be stuck on the ground at some Italian regional airport. Just wanted to give an example. And on some days many things go wrong. In that case, a bottle of water and a snickers or whatsoever would have been nice to get free of charge.
Some examples of food that are being confiscated are yogurts, salad dressings and I even heard of a guy that had to give away his lasagne. Of course with Ryanair you will have to buy yourself water airside for 3£. I know of stansted where they have the tap water machine. Wouldn't want to get my water though where hundreds of crews filled up theirs already.

Sky Wave
2nd Sep 2018, 21:34
can someone point out what kind of food is likely to be confiscated through security ?

I know one of our crew had jam doughnuts confiscated at LGW once. Basically they'll confiscate any food with too much liquid content and that includes frozen liquid content. It's also random, one day you'll get your frozen chicken tikka masala through security, the next day it will get confiscated.

I must be one of those unhealthy people, because I cannot do a 10 hour plus duty without food, I'd end up feeling quite ill. And whoever thinks that there's time to run into the terminal and get food in a low cost operation is living in a dream world.

SW

45989
3rd Sep 2018, 09:07
You cant take your own food as security will confiscate it.

Completely random. Depends on whatever sort of 'chip on the shoulder' type you meet. Avoid MAN

cats_five
3rd Sep 2018, 09:43
<snip>
750XL appears to have the attitude of a former powered student pilot who couldn't go solo and as such moved to gliders.
<snip>.

If he couldn't cut the mustard in power he almost certainly won't in gliders. True, no engine to deal with, but nothing like as easy as driving a car.

sonicbum
3rd Sep 2018, 10:08
Ever happened to you that you simply forgot to bring cash or your wallet? Glad you're so adult and professional. One could say simply perfect 😊Anyway I'm not going to work assuming I'll be stuck on the ground at some Italian regional airport. Just wanted to give an example. And on some days many things go wrong. In that case, a bottle of water and a snickers or whatsoever would have been nice to get free of charge.
Some examples of food that are being confiscated are yogurts, salad dressings and I even heard of a guy that had to give away his lasagne. Of course with Ryanair you will have to buy yourself water airside for 3£. I know of stansted where they have the tap water machine. Wouldn't want to get my water though where hundreds of crews filled up theirs already.

The thing is, if your employer does not provide you with food or refreshments (that's the way they are) then the importance of having food with you or means to buy food (i.e money) becomes important as much as having your licences and documentation with your prior to a flight. Just stick 20 bucks somewhere in your flight bag as emergency money in case you find yourself stuck in an Italian regional airport pulled out from stby at the very last minute and you forgot basically everything home except your licence. The brain works much better with a sandwich and some soda while you try to figure out how the heck you are going to get home.
Regarding overzealous security around, if you do have a legitimate doubt that they are not entitled to confiscate your food (ask them why) then take a picture of your gourmet meal and start a reporting process which could go up as much as to the UK CAA if needed.

UAV689
3rd Sep 2018, 16:26
the issue of food and breaks in airliner flying I think needs to be seriously looked at.

You cannot drive a truck for more than 4 hours without a break. Nor work on a til in sainsburys.

Aviation and the marine industry is exempted, for understandable reasons, you cannot just pull over a jet into a lay by and take a break. I believe the rules were written by people that assume every aircraft has a bunk on board being long haul, or the airlines would be responsible and roster in long turn arounds for a break.

At the blue harp, with 25min turnarounds, it is impossible. You are locked in that cockpit all day, and if your lucky you get 2 mins outside for a walk around on every other sector. It is not safe, nor humane, to roster people for 12hr duties, then expect them to go into discretion for another 2 hrs, without a single break in such an un-natural environment.

Last week I caught a cabin crew eating his sandwich in the toilet on a turnaround because there is zero time in flight with their sales targets to not be doing some for of service, and he was not allowed to eat in front of the passengers....another colleague of mine was supposed to be deadheading for 2hrs, and in the end had to operate a 9hr day after an issue with the current crew, he had no food. Called ops to ask for permission to open galley, denied. Called duty pilot, denied. Told duty pilot the flight will be further delayed by 1hr (on top of the 2.5hrs delay already) while he goes to get food, and they accepted that, rather than giving him a 2euro box of pringles from the galley. This is their mentality. Get EU compensation claim rather than have a duty of care to their staff.

I do not believe that is what was intended with the rules, but that is how a large very successful company, has yet again circumvented the rules to keep their productivity high.

Luke258
3rd Sep 2018, 18:37
The thing is, if your employer does not provide you with food or refreshments (that's the way they are) then the importance of having food with you or means to buy food (i.e money) becomes important as much as having your licences and documentation with your prior to a flight. Just stick 20 bucks somewhere in your flight bag as emergency money in case you find yourself stuck in an Italian regional airport pulled out from stby at the very last minute and you forgot basically everything home except your licence. The brain works much better with a sandwich and some soda while you try to figure out how the heck you are going to get home.
Regarding overzealous security around, if you do have a legitimate doubt that they are not entitled to confiscate your food (ask them why) then take a picture of your gourmet meal and start a reporting process which could go up as much as to the UK CAA if needed.
And I am saying the employer should provide you with food and beverages. Especially in such cases.
And once again. It can happen that you forget to bring your money. That day was just shit and it made me angry that I had to cancel my lunch plans and the day was ruined. I just then didn't want to purchase overpriced food and drinks. In hindsight it would have been the safer way of course to just borrow a few bucks.
Lucky me I don't have to deal with UK security anymore 😊
​​​​

hans brinker
3rd Sep 2018, 19:25
He shouldn't have to bring his own lunch, it should be provided by the company, like in the real airlines and in the good old times.
750, pilots like you -if you are a pilot- is the reason why the pilot profession is how it is now and keeps going down the tubes.

Sorry, but no. Airline pilot for 20 years, scheduled and corporate. I have had the full spread down to nothing. It is your responsibility as a pilot to make sure you are healthy. If you work for a company that doesnít provide free food you get your own. The reason our profession is going down the tubes is pilots accepting non union companies. The only thing stopping management from treating us like sh#t is us, but we have to step up.

suninmyeyes
3rd Sep 2018, 23:07
Almost everyone on this thread has decided the poor chap fainted due to lack of food or water. I have known a pilot faint due to having his collar buttoned up and when he turned his head quickly it just slightly restricted his throat. Once his tight top button was unfastened he was fine. The question in the above case is will the CAA ground the guy for a long time and make him undergo a load of tests and be reluctant to give his medical back.

Uplinker
9th Sep 2018, 09:11
Thread drift, I know, but many seem to have problems with food, so for what it’s worth, this is my method*

Before going to sleep prior to your duty, and after ironing your shirt, make a salad in a clear Tupperware box, (so the contents can be seen if required), about a 6 x 4 x 3 inch box does me, but adjust for your own requirements.

Bung in things like : lettuce, tomatoes, olives, peppers, sweetcorn, avocado, cucumber, beetroot, spring onion, mixed salad leaves, celery, artichoke, raw mushrooms etc, etc. Chop it all up** so it is easy to eat with just a fork. Don’t put salad dressing on, just a little bit of pure virgin olive oil.

For protein, you can add chopped up cheese, or prawns or ham, chicken, tuna. I put frozen prawns in - they keep the salad chilled and by the time I come to eat the salad, they have defrosted perfectly. Stick an apple, an easy peel orange, some unsalted nuts with the Tupperware in a lunch cool bag, and you have a very healthy and very tasty meal that will pass security with no problem. Pop the cool bag in the fridge until you get up to go to work. Takes about 10 mins to prepare.

Enjoy ! :ok:

Anything over the liquid limit that could be hiding explosive or chemical material, such as yoghurt, chilli, curry, lasagne etc, might very well be confiscated by security. It is easy to see what is in a salad made as described.

*I often make my own food because it is much healthier than the sugar and fat laden goop we are sometimes given.

**I use kitchen scissors to chop the items straight into the box. Much easier and quicker than chopping with a knife on a board.

PS, Always carry your wallet and some cash, always carry a credit card. You never know when you might have an unscheduled night stop or get stuck down route. :ok:

BluSdUp
9th Sep 2018, 12:59
Congratulations!
You just invented the Catering Company.
I for one stay at 3 star hotels were one or two are missing.
Danish rug brÝd the the first few days and reindeer sausage.
Then flatbread and sandwichmeat.
The Low Cost Gypsy Captain brings his own stuff.

Argggghhhh.
Why am I even responding to this when I am all for grounding the world Aviation Industry for 14 days until we get back the old T&C.
Anyway.
Got a lobster last time so time for some Fish Crab and Lobster.
Bacalotime!
You all watch you diet now
Jamie O. ak Cpt B

FightFireWithFire
9th Sep 2018, 19:52
Wow are there really so many companies where pilots aren't offered free food or water?

I work for a low cost and everyday we get a big bottle of water, one hot meal from a menu (sometimes we can ask for a second round as there's always plenty of food),salad,bread, yogurt,then a sandwich and some snacks/cocholate. All free. Quality is between acceptable and good.

Unbelievable that some companies won't give their crew any water in order to save money. Not even a discount from what ive heard.

Chris2303
9th Sep 2018, 20:47
So how is the pilot concerned?

Is he/she back in the air?

iggy
10th Sep 2018, 09:21
Wow are there really so many companies where pilots aren't offered free food or water?

Rephrase: are there really so many pilots willing to work for those companies? That's what is unbelievable. The companies are doing exactly what they are supposed to do: milk the cow to the last drop.

Pilots, on the other hand...

arketip
10th Sep 2018, 10:57
Same thing happened to a captain on a Swiss flight couple of days ago.
Do we assume is down to lack of free food and water too?

beachbumflyer
10th Sep 2018, 15:53
Thread drift, I know, but many seem to have problems with food, so for what itís worth, this is my method*

Before going to sleep prior to your duty, and after ironing your shirt, make a salad in a clear Tupperware box, (so the contents can be seen if required), about a 6 x 4 x 3 inch box does me, but adjust for your own requirements.

Bung in things like : lettuce, tomatoes, olives, peppers, sweetcorn, avocado, cucumber, beetroot, spring onion, mixed salad leaves, celery, artichoke, raw mushrooms etc, etc. Chop it all up** so it is easy to eat with just a fork. Donít put salad dressing on, just a little bit of pure virgin olive oil.

For protein, you can add chopped up cheese, or prawns or ham, chicken, tuna. I put frozen prawns in - they keep the salad chilled and by the time I come to eat the salad, they have defrosted perfectly. Stick an apple, an easy peel orange, some unsalted nuts with the Tupperware in a lunch cool bag, and you have a very healthy and very tasty meal that will pass security with no problem. Pop the cool bag in the fridge until you get up to go to work. Takes about 10 mins to prepare.

Enjoy ! :ok:

Anything over the liquid limit that could be hiding explosive or chemical material, such as yoghurt, chilli, curry, lasagne etc, might very well be confiscated by security. It is easy to see what is in a salad made as described.

*I often make my own food because it is much healthier than the sugar and fat laden goop we are sometimes given.

**I use kitchen scissors to chop the items straight into the box. Much easier and quicker than chopping with a knife on a board.

PS, Always carry your wallet and some cash, always carry a credit card. You never know when you might have an unscheduled night stop or get stuck down route. :ok:
Better than that. You can request a lunch break, like most workers have. Then you can eat a proper hot meal at the airport restaurant. But airport restaurants are expensive, so you'll have to ask for a meal allowance. The company probably wouldn't want to disrupt the flight schedules so you can tell them that you would be willing to eat on the plane if they provide you with a proper meal and let you keep the allowance. This way you don't have to worry the night before about making your own food. And if you earn a decent salary you can afford a maid to iron your shirts.

The AvgasDinosaur
10th Sep 2018, 16:45
Assuming that a self prepared could be safely negotiated past security, would a flight crew member be allowed by Ryanair's draconian rules to actually take it on board for consumption ?
Thanks for your time and trouble
David

FullWings
10th Sep 2018, 19:38
If you think about it, providing food and drink for flight crew is very cheap insurance indeed for the airline. For the cost of a few sarnies and teabags, they can ensure that their pilots wonít be taking off or landing with low blood sugar. Like hypoxia, itís insidious.

Loose rivets
11th Sep 2018, 19:44
I am astonished at the way this thread has developed. My briefest lines of thought.

Have you EVER fainted? A very significant question in the early medical forms.

16 hour days with a captain that ran on beer, cigarettes and a greasy breakfast in the Pax hotel Rotterdam. Ring a bell any of you SEN guys in the early 60's?

Oh, that brings back a memory. Our hard-working girl (singular) and the 40-odd passengers we managed to get in a DC3. I hid her collapsed body behind the radio rack, though the passengers were not fooled judging by their popping eyeballs. Still, my captain had flown over the hump in Burma, with the scenery going by under his feet due to lack of aircraft skin. No sympathy from him. No fainting allowed by the ones up front.

What you put in your sandwiches??!! Oh, FFS, get real. No water for 12 hours, okay, that would be tedious, but you would be too feeble-minded to be a pilot because of lack of balls. No food for say, 10, and you pass out? You need to know the reason. Fever? Fine, just being human. Food poisoning? Valid stuff. Tummy a bit empty? This is where you walk into the boss' office and let him know what snot-spraying rage is about. Or, you prove your questionable worth by handing your over-mayonnaised sandwiches to security . . . only to find them eating them when you happen to backtrack to your ops for a forgotten document. Yes, it happened, and if I'd been that crew member, it's likely I'd have needed the services of Flying Lawyer.

If you faint, something is wrong. It may be very minor but all interested parties need to know why it happened - the functioning of the two brains up front is akin to neurological ETOPS. Collar too tight? It's like swooning because your seat is not comfy. You don't notice when you turn your head that your neck is being restricted? Oh for you as a judo opponent. Have you any idea how well the jugular and carotid(s) are protected?

I doubt the authorities will just shrug and let this by. I wish they would, it would be heartbreaking to think of a licence being lost for anything but the clearest of reasons, but when half the main processing power of an airliner is switched off, everyone needs to know precisely why.

BluSdUp
11th Sep 2018, 22:40
Loose Rivets.
Finally someone pointing out the obvious here. thanks!
The Good old Chief Dr in Oslo , now long retired showed no mercy on anyone foolish enough to tick that box.
Grounded until such time he was 110% sure it did not occur again.
ie : He had to know why!

It was after all his responsibility and business.
I hope proper tests was taken and that the Fo recovers and can fly in the future.
If medically fit at ALL times.
Regards
Cpt B