Royal Pakistan Air Force

[Franek Grabowski]

History of the RPAF is rather elusive. Does anyone on the forum was there in 1940s/50s?
Thank you
Franek

[Quemerford]

There are a good number of books on the subject, particularly this one:

The Story of the Pakistan Air Force: a saga of courage and honour By Shaheen Foundation (1988): it's available on Google books, Amazon etc.

[Warmtoast]

History of the RPAF is rather elusive. Does anyone on the forum was there in 1940s/50s?
Thank you
Franek

Wasn't there, but was at RAF China Bay (Sri Lanka) in 1957 during JET 57 (Joint Exercise Trincomalee 1957) when RAF, Royal Navy, Indian Navy and Pakistan AF and Navy participated in the exercise.
Two photos of Pakistan AF Bristol Freighters taken by me at China Bay at the time.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/640x384/china_20bay_20_20pakistan_20af_20bristol_20freighter_201_zps nyxmfahg_11162b912029a2f9d129ef6f3bd4537677dd8363.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/640x391/china_20bay_20_20pakistan_20af_20bristol_20freighters_202_zp slwqdbh99_47bbc236ba73b86001fb5a0776d605a1aadf7dc8.jpg

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

My wife's late uncle, AVM William "Bull" Ernest Cannon was C in C RPAF from 1952 to 1956.


Aaron.

[Franek Grabowski]

Thanks for the replies!

Quemerford
A saga of courage and honour unfortunately does not provide the levelof detail I am after. Trying to get much more details. You can check Hawker Tempest website for my article on Pakistani Tempests.
http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/action/inpakistan

Warmtoast
Excellent shots. Would it be possible to get better scans? G777 was the third Freighter/Wayfarer in the RPAF. I have it with No 6 Sqn in 1955 with code letter S.

Aaron
Most interesting. Can you ask if the family still has some papers and photos? It looks Pakistani archives were decimated, and there are no files at TNA, that I should expect to be there. I would need to check, but I think AVM Cannon appears on some photos, that I already have. He replaced AVM Atcherley in the position.

[Quemerford]

Thanks for the replies!

Quemerford
A saga of courage and honour unfortunately does not provide the levelof detail I am after. Trying to get much more details. You can check Hawker Tempest website for my article on Pakistani Tempests.
In Pakistan (http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/action/inpakistan)


In that case I'd recommend my usual go-to's: Pakistan Air Attache for the correct military contacts; then do a lot of visits to all the related national archives, museums etc.

[Franek Grabowski]

Already done that, but it is of not much help, as plenty of records were seemingly destroyed. The only way is to approach families and veterans, and retrieve the records they have.

[Quemerford]

Some great UK National Archive stuff in the Foreign Office/Foreign & Commonwealth Office files from the UK Air Attaches (annual report on the PAF, Order of Battles etc); and the US AFHRA and UK RAF Museum hold very good aircraft records. There are often other ways of approaching these 'destroyed records' issues.

Don't give up! :)

EDIT: ...and don't take 'no' as an answer. Often these 'destroyed records' have a habit of turning up when you ask someone else in the same department.

[Warmtoast]

Slightly related to Pakistani involvement in JET 57 (my #3 above) is my post from 2010 here:

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/432412-old-ships-educate-me-please-2.html

My post #36 where we (the RAF in Sunderlands) found and "attacked" a couple of Pakistan Navy warships. Photos in the post show smoke from Pakistani warship guns as they fired at us in reply.

[Franek Grabowski]

Warmtoast
Are you sure they were blanks? Great shots!

Quemerford
Well, there is always a possibility that there are some packed files hidden in a remote corner of a hangar in Peshawar, but I got nothing. Situation changes dramatically for records of 1960s and on. Nonetheless my chances of hovering freely on remote corners of old air bases are quite limited, I am afraid.
As to TNA records, I have located a quarterly report of Air Adviser for 1949, excellent stuff, but I could not locate anything else. My requests to TNA, FO and AHB did not provide any hint, as to where missing copies could be. Nonetheless if I want to recreate individual aircraft histories, I need log books and photos, and those are often held by individuals.

[ICM]

Franek: You say that the only record from TNA that you have is an AA Report from 1949. If, indeed, you don't have it, then 6 Squadron's first weeks as a RPAF unit in August 1947 are covered in the final F540 entry of the 6 Sqn RIAF records there (AIR/27/96 series). I obtained these for my work on 10 Squadron (RAF), on finding that it was undertaking conversion of RIAF/RPAF personnel to the Dakota at Mauripur in the first half of 1947. You'd be welcome to a copy, if need be.

[Franek Grabowski]

ICM
Yes, I have found only one such report, which provides a brief description of activities in the period, policy, plans, etc. There is one promising file, I have not chance to review, and it may contain some information until 1949 - I have received some extract only, but it is not of the detail of an ORB.
I am surprised with your find, and I feel I will need to check the remaining ORBs. I will drop you a PM. I wonder if later ORBs made to the UK. I have once searched for a missing ORB of 1586 Flight, only few bits surviving in No 301 Sqn records - apparently someone removed it from the folder, but no new one was created. I hope it still dusts somewhere.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

Franek Grabowski

Unfortunately I have been trying to find documents for AVM L.W. Cannon without success. He did not have any children and all his brothers and sisters have now passed on. I would like to find his Flying Log Book and his medals but I do not hold up much hope! I did fine his uniform advertised for sale in the USA a couple of years ago.

Amongst my searches I did find the undermentioned link. It is, of course, not official but it does offer some insights to the RPAF of the time.

https://concordiaexpeditions.com/luckypilot/index.html

I hope it of interest to you.


Aaron.

[Franek Grabowski]

Aaron
I understand that you have interviewed all the family in this regard, and they know nothing? Have you asked Liddell Hart Centre? I know they ran (run?) a project to establish fate of personal files of all senior British officers.
I am already in touch with the owner of the site, son of Lanky Ahmad. Thanks for attention, though!
Best wishes
Franek

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

FB - No bother.
Is your interest generated because you had a relative in the early RPAF?
If I come across anything which may be of interest I will let you know.


Aaron.

[Franek Grabowski]

No, I did not, but a few years ago I have been asked to research the Poles in the RPAF. While doing so, I had to make a general research on the RPAF in the period. While doing so, I have realised that the history of the RPAF is pretty poorly covered, and that I have amassed some break through information and photos, but I still need some information and photos to put all of that in a more less complete history. No book, I think, but rather a number of articles.
Franek

[Wander00]

Had a Pakistani QFI on 1 Sqn at Cranwell, about 64 time, went off for a while having been back to Pakistan to fly some operation sorties in, I think, F86. Also had a later much decorated PAF pilot on our Towers course, ended up as a group captain, I believe his brother was Pakistan CAS

[Franek Grabowski]

Wander
It is a bit late for my research, I would need to ask my contacts for suggestions.