ATR at home base or A320 abroad...

[hugmie]

Dear ppruners,

I have myself a predicament, not a bad one to have but a predicament none the less....
My background, plus 1500hrs, been flying since 2011, single, no kids etc. I'm in my early 30s

I've been offered an FO position at my home base on an ATR with a small but reputable airline in the EU. With my experience I could be offered command as soon as 18 months. I can expect about 750 hours per year.

I've also been offered an FO position on an A320 with a LCC carrier but I would have to relocate to Eastern Europe. This is also a reputable company, based out of the EU. Time for command for the A320 job is about 5 years and I will fly close to max duty per year. This company has over 100 aircraft...

Both companies offer bonds, with decent refund at the end, both bonds are there about 4 years. So I see them as about even in this respect.

My problem: I've already lived abroad for many years and I would love to be at home. I've never had an airline job, just piston and corporate. Logic tells me to take the A320 job as it will give me far more opportunities in the future. I've burned a couple of years flying at low hour corporate gigs and feel like my career progression will be further stunted by taking an ATR job when I have a jet one right in front of me.

On the other hand, I would love to fly the ATR first and foremost, I feel like it would be a really fun aircraft and more challenging than the bus. I also really like the company, I've heard good things about the environment there and if/when I make command I'd be on decent money, and of course I'd be at my home. My worry is I may regret this a few years down the line if things start to slow down, I could get stuck in the turbo prop league. Or if the company goes down the ****ter I'd be out of a job with an ATR type vs an A320 type, the company has been doing well and is projected to do well. But it clearly has tighter margins than a company with 100 plus aircraft.

Also, if I do move onto a jet later won't I just be a couple years behind myself for the rest of my career by joining the jet league later on??

I've all but made up my mind, but would love to hear anyone's experience or opinion on the matter.....

Thanks all

[maximus610]

You already answered your question: ATR.

I've been in similar situation, never regretted.

[Uplinker]

a) Quality of life is very important. Living in a bedsit/flat by yourself away from your family and friends in a “foreign” country just to climb up the aviation ladder is a big ask. (I once did it for a year, although not in Eastern Europe).

b) You are young, free and single. Now is the ideal time to live abroad - especially to gain an A320 rating. With that, (half) the world is your oyster.

c) If the company is who I think it is, are they not basing some aircraft in the UK now?, in which case there may be a possibility for you to move to a UK base with them? Or at least have some night stops in the UK.

d) Sadly, a turboprop rating does not seem to count for much. It should do. I flew turboprops for three years before getting onto jets, and I know that turboprop flying is much more challenging and difficult than modern jets. (But more fun, when you are in the mood).

e) If you want to actually FLY, go for the turboprop. The Airbus is not the same flying experience.

Good luck !

[bringbackthe80s]

I’m always shocked when I read these things, honestly.

Young, single, early 30s. And you turn down an opportunity because you want to be HOME.
In my mind it begs the question, why did you become a pilot in the first place? Was it not to travel the world, meet new people, enjoy new experiences and cultures?

I must be from another era indeed.

[KongFlyer]

750 hrs a year on the ATR is way too much, the norm is 450-600/year. As an ATR FO I'd advise you to take the a320; it's a better investment for your future. I would also imagine it would be a way better piece of equipment to work on.

Good luck :)

[Banana Joe]

Quality of life is much more important than chasing the rabbit.

https://airfactsjournal.com/2018/08/chasing-the-rabbit/

[liftman]

I always try to remember what an old instructor said to me.

At the end,an aircraft is an aircraft never care about which type you fly, take care about quality of life that is much more important.

Said that, I would personally go for ATR much more fun

[hugmie]

I’m always shocked when I read these things, honestly.

Young, single, early 30s. And you turn down an opportunity because you want to be HOME.
In my mind it begs the question, why did you become a pilot in the first place? Was it not to travel the world, meet new people, enjoy new experiences and cultures?

I must be from another era indeed.
Well I've already done the living and working abroad thing for the last 9 years, so home is more of a novelty now! But you do make a valid point!

[EMB-145LR]

It took me the best part of a decade to get a job close to home. I flew turboprops and jets in all corners of the globe. It was fantastic for a year or two, but nothing beats a home life. I lived and breathed aviation. Now, 12 years in and flying an A320 for a big airline all that matters to me is my time off. It’s a job. A great job, but at the end of the day just a job. Spend time with those you care about and prioritise them. A flight deck is just a flight deck, and the shiny jet feeling wears off after a month or so.

[hugmie]

It took me the best part of a decade to get a job close to home. I flew turboprops and jets in all corners of the globe. It was fantastic for a year or two, but nothing beats a home life. I lived and breathed aviation. Now, 12 years in and flying an A320 for a big airline all that matters to me is my time off. It’s a job. A great job, but at the end of the day just a job. Spend time with those you care about and prioritise them. A flight deck is just a flight deck, and the shiny jet feeling wears off after a month or so.
Lol, shiny jet feeling!
Thanks for your insight!

[Nurse2Pilot]

I guess it's nice to say "it's just a job" when the finances are in order. I'd wager to say that for the new pilots, chasing the rabbit or the financial aspect would be more important as there are debts to pay and goals to tick off, yes? With a healthy bank balance and significant hours of experience opening up good employment options, I guess priorities can then shift to quality of life.

[hugmie]

Great article Bananna Joe, thanks for sharing!

[reverserunlocked]

Hmm on balance I would suggest going for the Bus. Once you’ve got an A320 command then you can go anywhere you like. I’d suck up a few years in Eastern Europe to get further up the ladder while you still have no ties. The (im)perfect storm could be you settle down at your home base, the industry contracts and you’re now a family man with a less than stellar ticket to take to the next gig. It’s all a bit ‘what if what if’ but it’s worth some thought.

[Dan Winterland]

Lifestyle. Pay. Aircraft type. In order of priority.

[KongFlyer]

Hugmie, you need to clear up some space so I can reply to your PM.

[ricky-godf]

It seems to me that you clearly like the idea of living home, but at the same time you still have some “energy” to do an experience abroad to progress you career.
My only question would be: is that A320 rating EVER going to get you home?
If jet life means living away indefinitely I’d go for the ATR probably, otherwise a few years experience abroad might be worth the effort to get you back home in a better (professional) position, albeit a few years in the future.

Ricky

[EMB-145LR]

I guess it's nice to say "it's just a job" when the finances are in order. I'd wager to say that for the new pilots, chasing the rabbit or the financial aspect would be more important as there are debts to pay and goals to tick off, yes? With a healthy bank balance and significant hours of experience opening up good employment options, I guess priorities can then shift to quality of life.

You're making quite a lot of baseless assumptions there. A shame to be so bitter when we’re all offering PERSONAL experiences and opinions. I’d have done anything to get home earlier in my career, including taking a significant pay cut or moving on to a smaller aircraft even though I’d have struggled financially to do so.

Incidentally, I didn’t realise you had access to my bank account to make yet more baseless comments about the personal situation of a stranger. If you’re just starting out in this industry, you’re going to struggle with that attitude.

[Nurse2Pilot]

I'm not making anything, I'm asking. Might be best to learn the difference before accusing someone of being bitter. I'd appreciate it if you don't project your feelings on my posts. Thanks!

[EMB-145LR]

I'm not making anything, I'm asking. Might be best to learn the difference before accusing someone of being bitter. I'd appreciate it if you don't project your feelings on my posts. Thanks!

I’m very happy with my lot and not at all bitter, thanks. A major factor in that was my personal choice to try and prioritise life outside of work. I love what I do for a living, but blindly prioritising it above all else didn’t make me happy. Thus, if I found myself in the original poster’s position I would take the ATR job, but that’s very much personal preference.

I take exception to the assumptions you made in your post. Having worked extremely hard in the early part of my career has led me to where I am today, and affords me the life experience to share what I learnt. Doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone, but I certainly don’t sit in a gold plated castle offering my opinions to the ‘little people’ at the beginning of their careers.

To the OP; my turboprop flying was by far and away the most fun and rewarding in my career. The Airbus is a pleasant working environment, but the ‘fun’ factor isn’t the same. You’re a pilot on one and an operator on the other. If you can afford to, and you want to, I’d take the ATR job and enjoy life with those you love.

[Nurse2Pilot]

Good to know you're happy with your lot, but might want to review your thought processes that leads you to calling someone bitter based on one post they make.

12 years in the industry and flying an A320 for a big airline is very different from the OP with 1500+ hours (2-3 years flying commercially?) and I would wager to say your financial health is very, very different from the OP. Feel free to show your bank balance if you feel the need to do so to disprove me. You said you worked extremely hard in the early part of your career; isn't the OP exactly at that point in his career? Could you really "prioritise life outside work" with a huge debt + type rating bond hanging over your head?

[Banana Joe]

Not everybody, luckily, has a huge debt + type rating bond to repay. I am one of the lucky ones and this is why I shared that article. I would probably look at things from a different perspective if I had a loan to pay back.

[EMB-145LR]

Could you really "prioritise life outside work" with a huge debt + type rating bond hanging over your head?

Yes! And had I been given the opportunity to do so earlier then I would’ve taken it. I self funded my own training, no help from parents etc. I left with about £40k in debt. I went modular because I knew I’d overstretch myself financially by going integrated. I went where the first job was, and did the same again for the second and third. I set out on my career to being a pilot knowing how much it would cost and how much debt I’d be in and what it would cost me to pay it back. I would’ve still moved home much earlier in my career if I could and would’ve taken a pay cut to do so because I’d done my research and not overstretched myself financially. It’s would be unwise both fiscally and mentally to set yourself up in such a manner that you can only take a jet job. What if that job never materialises? What if you have to end up flight instructing, or flying a piston or a turboprop? (Incidentally, many turboprop operators pay perfectly acceptable salaries). If a cadet is so myopic in their desire to get onto a shiny jet at any cost, then so be it, but I think they’ll come to regret it further down the line.

The original poster says that his ATR rating would be paid for and the money would be good when he gets his command in 18 months time. Reading between the lines he wants to be home and he doesn’t suggest that finances are the main driver in his decision making process. So I don’t see where MY financial situation comes into it at all. If he doesn’t have the financial constraint (which he doesn’t seem to from his original post) then I merely suggested that he’d be happier with the option that takes him home.

May I ask what stage of your career you’re at Nurse2Pilot, and what your aspirations are? The reason I said you appear bitter is that you come across as rather angry that someone might suggest that the luxury of putting a home life first over flying even exists?

[Nurse2Pilot]

Thanks for the excellent responses guys! @EMB, I'll give you a reply later on, not very good at typing on the phone but currently my career is Nurse 10, Pilot 0 :) No idea how anything I've said can be taken as me being bitter or angry, you must be reading into something that I assure you isn't there.

[hugmie]

Thank you so much for your replies, everyone has provided quality insight. I feel I would have the chance to make it back to my home base on an A320 in the future, and if not perhaps on another type. So I am leaning towards the A320 now, purely because it feels like the wiser career move.
They are both great options, but I guess the rabbit is still tempting!

Thanks again for your posts!!

[Clandestino]

I've burned a couple of years flying at low hour corporate gigs and feel like my career progression will be further stunted by taking an ATR job when I have a jet one right in front of me.
My worry is I may regret this a few years down the line if things start to slow down, I could get stuck in the turbo prop league.Yes, your career progress will be stunted and very likely you will get stuck in the TP league, if you choose ATR.

It's not necessarily a bad thing; as a tyro ATR F/O I've come across quite a few skippers that were happy to spend 10-15-20 years they had left before retirement in the ATR's LHS and harboured no desire to go flying shinyjets. Maybe what worked for them can work for you.

On the other hand, I would love to fly the ATR first and foremost, I feel like it would be a really fun aircraft and more challenging than the bus.Having flown both I really can't single out either as being more challenging or more fun. Yes, they have different peculiarities and go different places in the different manner, but for life of me, I can't say I had more fun or more problems on one or another, though my life was easier, better air-conditioned and less vibrating on the Bus.

A flight deck is just a flight deck, and the shiny jet feeling wears off after a month or so.
True, yet my predicament is greatly alleviated by the fact that my shiny jet flying pays me double rate compared to what I had as Q400 skipper and gives me three times longer vacation to spend the extra cash on.

[The Range]

It's a no brainer
Single, no kids, early 30's: the A320
You'll have more choices in the future. And you can always come back home and to the ATR.

[hugmie]

Thanks to everyone for their input! I haven't got this many notifications since I used to display my birthday on facebook lol! But seriously it has been an invaluable tool to bounce my ideas off so thanks to everyone!

I think it's pretty clear what the right choice is, for me anyway.. Will advise when I've decided!

Hug

[clumsypilot]

first of all good luck with your decision.

I would like to say 320 is a very user friendly aircraft. even if you fly the max duty, if they dont have many night flights or layovers you will be fine. Plus it s a very common type rating and there will be jobs available all the time. so maybe you wont wait for 5 yrs and come back to home town or somewhere close within couple years.

again.. good luck.

[dirk85]

I fly for a much better airline now, but I am telling you, the years I spent in Wizzair were the best and most fun of my life, and I was in the same situation as you are now, same age and relationship status. I am now based at home for a company where I plan to spend a long time, if not all my career, but thinking about my pink years still brings me great memories.

[hugmie]

I’m very happy with my lot and not at all bitter, thanks. A major factor in that was my personal choice to try and prioritise life outside of work. I love what I do for a living, but blindly prioritising it above all else didn’t make me happy. Thus, if I found myself in the original poster’s position I would take the ATR job, but that’s very much personal preference.

I take exception to the assumptions you made in your post. Having worked extremely hard in the early part of my career has led me to where I am today, and affords me the life experience to share what I learnt. Doesn’t mean it’s right for everyone, but I certainly don’t sit in a gold plated castle offering my opinions to the ‘little people’ at the beginning of their careers.

To the OP; my turboprop flying was by far and away the most fun and rewarding in my career. The Airbus is a pleasant working environment, but the ‘fun’ factor isn’t the same. You’re a pilot on one and an operator on the other. If you can afford to, and you want to, I’d take the ATR job and enjoy life with those you love.
Thanks for your posts EMB145, very interesting to hear your opinion having flown both types!

[Capt Pit Bull]

A big factor no one else has mentioned (I think) is do you want to get into training?

Might be far quicker on the ATR and then you are well set.

[Calmcavok]

My $0.02: line your ducks up the way you want them looking another 10+ years down the track. If you want to stay at home and get seniority, ATR. If you want the net job and return home to a bigger/more stable carrier, 320. Not easy though.

[clumsypilot]

I also have a similar situation.. Would like to hear opinions..

I have been flying A320 for 6 years and logged 5000hrs. That is my first after flight school. Company is offering me a commander upgrade on B737. Which I find a bit frightening since I have zero experience with boeing. Plus recently they remove the procedure of flying 300 hrs on the right seat before getting the command. So it will be CBT, ground course, simulator from left seat and lifus for 40 sectors.

Normally I am a curious person and like to discover new aircrafts. Plus these are the most common airliners in the world so could be nice to know both. But on the other hand.. I feel like I will be throwing away my experience on Airbus if I move to 737. Also 737 fleet has very ugly roster compared to 320. Both are narrow body and suffer from lots of legs and night flights, 737 suffering a lot short layovers and Africa flights.

If I decide to wait.. It is "expected" to get a command in 320 not earlier thn 7 months. 320 fleet will also grow, they have confirmed orders(if everything goes as planned). So I will suffer 30 pct pay rise. Also not sure if company can find enough pilots for 737 otherwise they can always force me to move 737. cause of the mentioned reasons, they lose people everyday.

Thx in advance for your opinions..!

[Count of Monte Bisto]

I would have to differ with a lot of the advice here. I am an ex-turboprop pilot who now flies the A320. If you want to be a pilot, you need a Boeing or an Airbus on your licence to be safe. The 320 or 737 is a job for the foreseeable future. Turboprop hours are not seen the same as jet hours and you are perceived as less of a pilot without those jet hours. Do not all shout at me for saying this - I am just stating the hard facts of the airline industry. ATRs typically have very limited route structures and ATR Captains usually get paid the same as A320 and B737 FOs. It is not fair, but it is the harsh reality. Twenty years from how when you are looking at your wife and 3 kids and flying is just something you do, you will look at your less talented mates who took the jet route and realise that they are earning twice (or more) the salary you do for basically the same job. My strong advice if you want to be a pilot is get a respected jet on your licence - it is such a protection against the future. No one is arguing whether you will be a good pilot or not - what matters is what is on your licence and how many jet hours you have flown.

[rudestuff]

Get on a jet sooner rather than later, you never know what's round the corner. After a year, re-evaluate. If you find something closer to home, jump ship early.

[Nurse2Pilot]

Sorry for the late reply, got busier than I anticipated!

I would’ve still moved home much earlier in my career if I could and would’ve taken a pay cut to do so because I’d done my research and not overstretched myself financially. It’s would be unwise both fiscally and mentally to set yourself up in such a manner that you can only take a jet job.
It's not just money but career options for the future as well. As others have cited, having a jet rating is "safer" and the OP is having to choose between TP@home or jet elsewhere. If it was jets in both instances with slightly less pay at home, then I see your point and would agree as he is only being stunted pay-wise but still has a good rating that is in demand in many places. I get the feeling that TP isn't as sought-after as jet :(

If a cadet is so myopic in their desire to get onto a shiny jet at any cost, then so be it, but I think they’ll come to regret it further down the line. I could make the same point regarding getting home at any cost..... and regretting it further down the line.

The original poster says that his ATR rating would be paid for and the money would be good when he gets his command in 18 months time. Reading between the lines he wants to be home and he doesn’t suggest that finances are the main driver in his decision making process.
True, but as stated, it's not only finances but future career progression as well!

So I don’t see where MY financial situation comes into it at all. If he doesn’t have the financial constraint (which he doesn’t seem to from his original post) then I merely suggested that he’d be happier with the option that takes him home.
I was just saying that being in a better financial situation (you) may afford you options that is not necessarily available or attractive to others (OP or other pilots with low flight hours). 12 years in the biz, your own command, and a healthy bank balance shifts priorities. Newly-minted FO, no command, and a good-sized debt (or bond, as is the OP) would be looking at different priorities. Even if no debt, future career prospects alone would shift priorities compared to someone such as yourself who has probably already ticked most boxes.

May I ask what stage of your career you’re at Nurse2Pilot, and what your aspirations are? The reason I said you appear bitter is that you come across as rather angry that someone might suggest that the luxury of putting a home life first over flying even exists?As mentioned, I've not even started flight training yet! :) So how can I be bitter or angry at something that I don't even have anything invested in? You're reading into something that isn't there, so maybe review your own thought processes as to how you can "see" bitterness or anger even when you've been told it isn't there.


FYI - I am fully aware of putting other priorities first, hence my first post in this thread. I've been on part time hours at work for 3 years now simply because the NHS is going bonkers and I refuse to go down that road with it.

[Nurse2Pilot]

So I am leaning towards the A320 now, purely because it feels like the wiser career move.That would be my thoughts as well and would go that way if I were in your shoes. Do tell us what you decide on in the end and good luck!!

[FlightDetent]

... My strong advice if you want to be a pilot is get a respected jet on your licence - it is such a protection against the future. No one is arguing whether you will be a good pilot or not - what matters is what is on your licence and how many jet hours you have flown. I agree with all of the post, quoted just the highlight. Any advice to stay on the ATR is of elusive honor, in my opinion.

Even if I am wrong, it is far better to go expat early in the career! Because once you come back home, you'd be happy there. as opposed to looking at the ME3 job adverts and feeling moody with 3 kids screaming at the back.

[EMB-145LR]

My last post on this because we’re splitting hairs, but I don’t have a command, never have. The airline that I finally joined at home three years ago generally has a time to command of 8 to 12 years on short haul and over 20 on long haul. I’m at my fourth airline and it’s the first one that actually pays me well enough to even have some savings. I’ve just bought my first house after years of working overseas to get to this position. I only paid off the last of my training debt a few years ago. Anyway, this isn’t about me, but you’ve made a number of assumptions that are very far from the truth. Once you’re in the industry and you’ve lived it a little, you may well appreciate the views of those that have actual experience of it. Nevertheless, all the very best with your endeavours and future training, and thanks for your service to the NHS.

To the OP, the very best of luck with whatever you decide. Enjoy the journey!

[Nurse2Pilot]

Was I wrong about your finances despite not seeing your bank balance? How can you not be financially stable after paying off your training debt and putting a downpayment on a new home? How was my comment baseless?

What other assumptions have I made that are far from the truth? Does any of them change the message of "With a healthy bank balance and significant hours of experience opening up good employment options, I guess priorities can then shift to quality of life"??

Funny how you pick on the things I got wrong (command) but still reinforce my point by mentioning you've paid of your training debt and purchased a house.... clearly finances are in order or very well on it's way to getting there, something someone with 1500hrs is very, very far from getting no matter how you look at it. I can't imagine how you'd take offense at my first post yet move forward proving my point above.

I don't have to see your bank statement but for someone who has paid off a debt and just bought a house, I don't think I'm far off the mark regarding your financial stability, yet you responded as if you were still swimming in debt and living paycheck to paycheck. I don't have to be in your specific industry to know this concept. You think this does not happen in the NHS or other areas of employment? As before, I encourage you to stop projecting or at least examine your thought processes that lead you into calling people bitter or angry, perhaps the truth is that flying has lost it's appeal to you and is now "just a job"?

Regardless of the above, thank you very much for sharing your story. Good day!

[Bridgestone17]

I would have to differ with a lot of the advice here. I am an ex-turboprop pilot who now flies the A320. If you want to be a pilot, you need a Boeing or an Airbus on your licence to be safe. The 320 or 737 is a job for the foreseeable future. Turboprop hours are not seen the same as jet hours and you are perceived as less of a pilot without those jet hours. Do not all shout at me for saying this - I am just stating the hard facts of the airline industry. ATRs typically have very limited route structures and ATR Captains usually get paid the same as A320 and B737 FOs. It is not fair, but it is the harsh reality. Twenty years from how when you are looking at your wife and 3 kids and flying is just something you do, you will look at your less talented mates who took the jet route and realise that they are earning twice (or more) the salary you do for basically the same job. My strong advice if you want to be a pilot is get a respected jet on your licence - it is such a protection against the future. No one is arguing whether you will be a good pilot or not - what matters is what is on your licence and how many jet hours you have flown.
Completely agree with every word of this - get on a Jet ASAP