View Full Version : Little Rock PD Helicopter crash August 2018
SASless
22nd Aug 2018, 01:45
Ground runs can be hazardous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4c45uw6GCo
jellycopter
22nd Aug 2018, 02:04
that looks like a centre of gravity issue to me
John Eacott
22nd Aug 2018, 02:15
Happened last week but footage just released of a Bell 206 ground run gone bad: conflicting reports from various media and PD sources. Race car cowling is off, pilot's door swings open at one stage, second guy on the scene seems more concerned with getting camera footage than helping to look after the injured one trapped in the cockpit :sad:
Start at 1:00 to avoid watching nothing but a ground run!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7yCMAufl8
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/679x542/80-screen_shot_2018_08_16_at_12_23_59_pm_t800_4e5cad460f54188b0 66a9f7d56e90e8b81625861.png
http://www.nwaonline.com/news/2018/aug/21/little-rock-police-release-video-footage-helicopte/
Ascend Charlie
22nd Aug 2018, 03:19
Engineer doing the run? It got light on the skids, lifted off (a bit disorienting when the trolley starts to move underneath you), he almost got a stable hover but drifted back up to the pad, snagged a skid, and bye-bye.
skadi
22nd Aug 2018, 05:18
May be that the guy with the leaf blower at the hangar door caused some severe turbulence :}
skadi
misterbonkers
22nd Aug 2018, 06:15
Hydraulics?
Vertical Freedom
22nd Aug 2018, 06:59
May be that the guy with the leaf blower at the hangar door caused some severe turbulence :}
skadi
Come on mate it's a Bell :)
Hydraulics?
Naar they are pretty docile & easy to fly without boost, not like a Squirrel.....likely story is; 'twas the Engineer trying to outsmart the Pilot :=
GrayHorizonsHeli
22nd Aug 2018, 12:28
A twitter story refers to it as a strong straight line gust of wind as the cause.
for the life of me i cant see anything indicating that hogwash
John R81
22nd Aug 2018, 12:59
The dolly is not chocked, and after an initial period it begins to move forward. It creeps for several seconds starting from 49 sec. The machine is also light on the skids, as there is discernible yaw when you flick between early shots (20 sec) and later (1' 07"). I guess the chap at the controls reacted to the fwd movement by pulling back on the cyclic and .....
SASless
22nd Aug 2018, 13:36
The Trees on the aircraft's left side show a lot of "wind" or "rotor wash".
The Dolly was not chocked.....no way to tell if had a brake system.
The Tail twitched a bit....then after a short bit of time the Dolly begins to creep forward...and the rest is history as they say.
Would have been nice to see evidence of some sort of fire extinguisher in the vicinity or some attempt to call for assistance from emergency services instead of grabbing a camera.
SASless
22nd Aug 2018, 14:30
Hey....it is Arkansas...remember!
JBL99
22nd Aug 2018, 21:05
second guy on the scene seems more concerned with getting camera footage than helping to look after the injured one trapped in the cockpit
I'm not convinced that's what he's doing. Looks like a two way radio or phone call to me. Maybe I'm wrong.
Unregistered_
22nd Aug 2018, 22:20
Engineer doing the run? It got light on the skids, lifted off (a bit disorienting when the trolley starts to move underneath you), he almost got a stable hover but drifted back up to the pad, snagged a skid, and bye-bye.
Yep agree. Definitely a non pilot. Could have saved it a few times but didn't.
gulliBell
22nd Aug 2018, 23:18
So who does the debrief on that one, the Chief Pilot or the Chief of Maintenance? No way was a pilot at the controls.
SuperF
23rd Aug 2018, 00:01
Another story says it was a highly experienced pilot, recently retired from full time flying. comes in to help out...
If it was the pilot reporting a gust of wind, could have been his impression from the trolley moving, he thought it was taking off , had a gust of wind etc.. why he couldn't hold it in a stable hover after he got airborne is a mystery tho.
GrayHorizonsHeli
23rd Aug 2018, 00:04
"The pilot, retired officer William "Bill" Denio"
no reference to his skill level, but they claim a pilot was at the controls...enough of the engineer references.
Vertical Freedom
23rd Aug 2018, 01:38
"The pilot, retired officer William "Bill" Denio"
no reference to his skill level, but they claim a pilot was at the controls...enough of the engineer references.
Ok GHH......it was the 'leaf blower' :eek: surely 'twas :ouch:
gulliBell
23rd Aug 2018, 05:57
I've never known a 206 to get airborne in any amount of wind when the collective was full down.
nigelh
23rd Aug 2018, 11:15
Pilot definitely lifted collective, early on you can see it is light on skids and he corrects yaw with pedals, at that point collective would have been lifted 3-4 inches as a guess . Then he pulls an armful . V hard to believe it is really a pilot at controls ... he had two very good opportunities to get it together...even just another meter of height would have saved the situation.
insurance claim will be interesting....
whoknows idont
23rd Aug 2018, 13:04
Maybe the highly experienced pilot is the guy in the blue shirt who comes storming out of the door, trying to save the day by marshalling the helicopter back onto the pad...
PANews
23rd Aug 2018, 15:27
There are warning signs in the media texts..... the same ones that were fed that it did not take off so it did not need reporting to the FAA..... operated around 165 hours in three years of which a lot was training .... so this is not a busy unit and is based well away from the local airport ....
Anyone checked out the N number of the Bell?
Anyone checked out who the registered owner is.... or when the Little Rock PD last owned an aircraft?
Lots of gaps in the answers..... in fact it looks like pure vapour....
SASless
23rd Aug 2018, 15:32
So...you set the ground handling wheels aside...buy a platform dolly and tractor but forego the purchase of a set of chocks or screw down brakes!
Sure seems like false economy!
homonculus
23rd Aug 2018, 16:14
I presume those would be the yellow fluffy type.....:ok:
Fareastdriver
23rd Aug 2018, 18:04
Quit a lot so they will have to be cheep.
yeah986
23rd Aug 2018, 18:57
"...insurance claim will be interesting...."
Not sure about liability, facility, and medical claims, but as to the hull: "...the department got a bargain on this chopper. "We pay $2,000 annually to participate in the state of Arkansas Law Enforcement Support Program," said Little Rock Police Department Lieutenant Nathan Tackett.With that $2,000, the acquisition fee was waived and all that was left to pay was the transportation cost of the equipment."
url: greenvilleonline.com/story/news/2015/12/10/lrpd-unveils-new-crime-fighting-tool/77115424/
SASless
23rd Aug 2018, 21:19
Quit a lot so they will have to be cheep.
They would be easier seen yellow, but nothing in aviation is cheap, other than shots!:=
mixing lever
23rd Aug 2018, 21:50
Frictions tightly on for maintenance as the aircraft became airborne... would explain the jerky nature of the aircraft.
nigelh
23rd Aug 2018, 22:22
Err not really . If you release the friction on the collective you do the cyclic as well !!! Any helicopter run up I do I expect to get airborne..ie harness on , all frictions off , hand on collective unless there is a lock , which there isn’t on the 206 !
Old Boeing Driver
24th Aug 2018, 01:10
There are warning signs in the media texts..... the same ones that were fed that it did not take off so it did not need reporting to the FAA..... operated around 165 hours in three years of which a lot was training .... so this is not a busy unit and is based well away from the local airport ....
Anyone checked out the N number of the Bell?
Anyone checked out who the registered owner is.... or when the Little Rock PD last owned an aircraft?
Lots of gaps in the answers..... in fact it looks like pure vapour....
The tail number was N54331. https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=54331
gulliBell
24th Aug 2018, 01:34
The number painted on the nose was a give-away clue as to the rego.
I'm still at a loss to believe the helicopter was being operated by a pilot, even a retired one at that. There must have been no intention to take-off and land back on that mobile dolly, given it wasn't chocked. And even if caught by surprise by the thing getting airborne, there was ample opportunity to put it on the ground after entering wobbly mode. That helicopter is totaled, not much to be salvaged from what's left.
Yeah, maybe aft CG had something to do with it. There was a night-sun hanging off the back and the race cowl was off the front. But still.
PANews
24th Aug 2018, 02:29
Thank you for the N number OBD.
Aluminium Mallard
24th Aug 2018, 04:38
I find it hard to believe that is an experienced pilot at the controls... it looks suspiciously like someones first attempt at hovering!
Either that or it's a helicopter version of one of those "hit the accelerator instead of the brake" moments that seem to regularly happen to senior citizens j/k :)
I'm glad there were no fatalities with a few people fairly close by... very lucky.
John Eacott
24th Aug 2018, 04:55
Err not really . If you release the friction on the collective you do the cyclic as well !!! Any helicopter run up I do I expect to get airborne..ie harness on , all frictions off , hand on collective unless there is a lock , which there isn’t on the 206 !
:confused:
There is no direct link between the collective and cyclic friction that I know of on a Bell 206 or derivative. They can be selected as required, independently, to suit a pilot's requirements and the individual aircraft.
Bell_ringer
24th Aug 2018, 07:32
:confused:
There is no direct link between the collective and cyclic friction that I know of on a Bell 206 or derivative. They can be selected as required, independently, to suit a pilot's requirements and the individual aircraft.
I believe he was saying that you should release all frictions as if you intended to fly.
Even with frictions on, the aircraft should be manageable for most people.
Perhaps they disabled hydraulics for the ground run.
It will be an awkward discussion with the insurance company.
SASless
24th Aug 2018, 10:18
The aircraft was an Army Surplus TH-67 (Fort Rucker Training aircraft) and cost the LRPD....nothing to obtain.
They would have had some expense to fit Mission Communication equipment....which might not amount to much in reality.
The Hull Loss is minimal as there are still surplus Jet Rangers available.
In all likelihood it was not insured at all due to being a Public Use Aircraft owned by the City Government.
nigelh
24th Aug 2018, 13:15
Bell ringer ... correct . If you flew 300,s many moons ago you got into the habit of always expecting to have to lift off on ground runs ... hence bucked up and frictions all off !! This was partly I think due to its amazing ability to get into ground resonance.....
Outwest
24th Aug 2018, 16:49
What is the white object in the area of the pilots seat? Is that just his t-shirt or is that a flight helmet? Wondering if there was something interfering with the controls....
Outwest...the only thing interfering with the controls was the ‘Pilot’!
Even if the dolly was left out with the aircraft shutdown and unmanned it should have been chocked!
Cowboys used to tie their horses up, seem they have forgotten the basics nowadays.
Outwest
25th Aug 2018, 23:10
Agree about the dolly, but seems strange that at one point the a/c is in a fairly stable hover when it all goes for S@#T again......
Outwest... true, and at one point on an ILS I get the centreline and guideslope as well... then like you said..it all goes to S#*t:ok:
gulliBell
26th Aug 2018, 20:14
It seems it was the leaf blower, reported here (https://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2018/08/17/police-identify-pilot-in-lrpd-helicopter-crash):
Rotor George
26th Aug 2018, 20:59
It seems it was the leaf blower, reported here (https://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2018/08/17/police-identify-pilot-in-lrpd-helicopter-crash):
Max Brantley (https://www.arktimes.com/author/max-brantley) needs to find another job, fact finding and writing are not his strong suit.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/614x737/screen_shot_2018_08_26_at_5_00_21_pm_98a348353824ccb3d58db96 ed84f7a1aa92d2601.png
Rotor George
26th Aug 2018, 21:48
Straight line winds. So now we know the cause. :ugh:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1039x634/screen_shot_2018_08_26_at_5_39_12_pm_79203d6e7fd7a6ebc7b3884 09a2c9154c8aeda86.png
Ascend Charlie
26th Aug 2018, 23:33
Yeah, that wind was so strong, it didn't ruffle the fur on the dog, didn't make a T-shirt flap, didn't swing the screen door. If it really was blowing a gale, the dude with Horatio Leafblower wouldn't have bothered being out there. Obviously that "reporter" didn't even look at the video before writing that trash.
gulliBell
26th Aug 2018, 23:37
"Straight-line wind" is Police speak for leaf blower, right? They obviously need a much bigger helicopter that is more resilient of leaf blowers, or hire a different guy to drive them.
Old Boeing Driver
27th Aug 2018, 06:07
Max Brantley (https://www.arktimes.com/author/max-brantley) needs to find another job, fact finding and writing are not his strong suit.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/614x737/screen_shot_2018_08_26_at_5_00_21_pm_98a348353824ccb3d58db96 ed84f7a1aa92d2601.png
Was the "other person onboard" the one that was actually doing the flying, and was that person a pilot?
Also, the straight line wind didn't seem to blow the smoke and dust away very much after the accident.
gulliBell
27th Aug 2018, 07:04
Technically it did get airborne, but NTSB or FAA not taking any interest in this one. We may never know what happened.
Vertical Freedom
27th Aug 2018, 08:35
"Straight-line wind" is Police speak for leaf blower, right? They obviously need a much bigger helicopter that is more resilient of leaf blowers, or hire a different guy to drive them.
Hey GulliBell.....no ordinary leaf blower there Mate :ooh: they make 'em very special in 'Little Rock' strong enough to blow Your socks & undies off...imagine that kinda force on a lowly ole hovering JetBox :suspect: Luckily they didn't bring out the 'Little Rock Whipper Snipper'...imagine the carnage that'd have made :sad:
Well if that is the level of reporting accepted in the US, no wonder the Donald doesn't think much of the media........:E
SASless
27th Aug 2018, 12:42
Now Crab....as Ronald Ray Guns used to say....."There you go again!".
The American Media is no different than the British Media as to the quality of reporting.
Lord knows Ya'll done been bemoaning the poor quality of your own media with great regularity here at Rotor Heads.
SASless
27th Aug 2018, 12:43
Technically it did get airborne, but NTSB or FAA not taking any interest in this one. We may never know what happened.
Like that 429 Tail Rotor thing at the HEMS Charity.....eh?
Sasless - no argument that some institutions like the Daily Mail have some pretty shoddy reporting but the relationship between the Govt and the press in the UK isn't as bad as this https://www.newsmediaalliance.org/news-outlets-fight-back-trump/ (https://apps.bostonglobe.com/opinion/graphics/2018/08/freepress/)
and thishttps://www.newsmediaalliance.org/news-outlets-fight-back-trump/