Netjets Europe Conditions

[Miserable Old Git]

With the announcement by Netjets Europe of the recruitment of 50 first officers, this should help out with many of your questions:

https://www.kuraaviation.com/docs/NetJets%20FAQ%202018.pdf

If you are interested, apply here:

https://www.kuraaviation.com/netjets/

[Sarah Juliana]

Hope it's ok to post here - just wondering if you may know of any of the above mentioned positions coming up? A requirement for more First Officers makes me think there possibly will be?

Any information would be gratefully received.

Kind regards, Sarah

[redsnail]

There's a round of interviews happening at the moment. Don't wait for an announcement, go to the NetJets website and apply online. Make sure you apply to Europe and not the US (unless of course, you want the US site). Think carefully about what you put on your application, in other words, don't rush to fill it in.
If you know someone on the inside so to speak, have a chat to them.

https://jobsite.netjetseurope.com/servlet/CheckSecurity/JSP/jobsite_g/generico_login.jsp?zStandar=CO&zSociedad=0001#

[AFrotary]

There's a round of interviews happening at the moment. Don't wait for an announcement, go to the NetJets website and apply online. Make sure you apply to Europe and not the US (unless of course, you want the US site). Think carefully about what you put on your application, in other words, don't rush to fill it in.
If you know someone on the inside so to speak, have a chat to them.

https://jobsite.netjetseurope.com/servlet/CheckSecurity/JSP/jobsite_g/generico_login.jsp?zStandar=CO&zSociedad=0001#

Can you tell anything about the pilot requirements at Netjets? Are they inviting tons of people for a few positions or are they actually struggling to get enough candidates?

[redsnail]

All I know is that there's 50 FO positions available. As for the number and quality of applicants I don't know. Kura's handling the recruitment. My response you quoted was for Sarah as she was asking about Flight Attendant/ISR positions.
The advice of being careful what you write, think about who you're applying to and what you can bring to the table so to speak. If you're in private aviation, you'll know that our job is a lot more than just flying. :) The above links should help. :)

I must warn, if you are looking for a fast upgrade, NetJets is not the place.

[EatMyShorts!]

If you are looking for a lot of money, it won't be your place either.

[shithappens]

If you are looking for a pension it is not the place either, you will not get a viable one at NetJets, so count on putting pension investment money aside from any salary offered. What they offer is a gross salary, it is up to employees to cover pension from that sum.

[dirk85]

So it’s not the company for career prospects, money, or pension, and history of redundancies... I fail to understand why anyone would consider this job if you guys put it like this.

For the good training and the half decent roster? That doesnt cut it I am afraid.

[shithappens]

The advert did state that upgrade was expected within 6 years on the document that I read from NetJets, however I do not know how the company can predict this, given the number of Command ready First Officers waiting for upgrade since more than ten years already. As Dirk and others say: don’t join NetJets expecting a quick upgrade, a decent salary, or a pension worthy of that name. They are offering 6 on, 5 off and that is the main incentive.

Bottom line:look around. Do not get tricked by the salary, look at the package value. That means looking at the TOTAL COST OF EMPLOYMENT, not the salary. NetJets is social phobic, this means that if they offer you 100€, the cost to NetJets is circa €115. If Lufthansa pays you 100€, the cost to them is closer to 200€, Check it out. You get what your employer pays for and it is important to look at this for you long term security (social protection, healthcare, unemployment cover, long term sickness and pension). NetJets offers a low salary, with a below minimum social protection package. If you join, then do so because you don’t care about social protection, want the 6/5 lifestyle and don’t need the money.

[Marlon Brando]

When i started aviation, less than a decade ago, Netjets was my dream job, my goal.
it has changed. It's a pilot market now, but Netjets's T&C are pretty bad actually. I didn't even applied

i'm talking about Netjets EU.
USA is pretty good

[Miserable Old Git]

AFrotary (https://www.pprune.org/members/396503-afrotary) - We are receiving applications, if you are interested, you should apply. We are not struggling to recruit, just looking for good people :)

redsnail (https://www.pprune.org/members/13039-redsnail) - You are absolutly correct. A fast upgrade is not possible. Projections are for the current FOs in the company to be upgraded in 6-8 years time. Obviously, the new guys and girls would be just behind them. As with any businesses, it all depends on market conditions.

EatMyShorts! (https://www.pprune.org/members/128141-eatmyshorts-) - I've been in aviation for 30 years, I am comfortable, but you are correct, you won't make a lot of money being a pilot - those days are long gone. I'm not sure what 'a lot' is though. Can you tell me? 66,300 after two years is not bad IMO.

****happens (https://www.pprune.org/members/83114-****happens) - The pension for UK based pilots is OK, unless you know otherwise. The EU one has some issues due to stupid tax rules and is being looked at with some vigor by management. Perhaps you know something else? Please let us know.

dirk85 (https://www.pprune.org/members/184578-dirk85) - You also fail to understand the majority of pilots who work for us. Times are good and there are jobs around, but we have not seen a big increase in churn. Yes, there is an increase, but nothing unexpected. If the company was that bad, why do so many work here? Personally, I am very happy at Netjets and have no interest in driving a bus behind an armoured door. I managed to disconnect ego and aircraft size some time ago and enjoy the challenge of our operation and the interaction with our pax, some of whom are very interesting people.

Overall, I feel well paid (could be more of course), I enjoy the flying as it is not boring, the family medical cover is excellent and the new management seems to be listening to the concerns of all employees. The introduction of the SFO rank is a good example of how long term FOs are being rewarded for their service.

[EatMyShorts!]

EatMyShorts! (https://www.pprune.org/members/128141-eatmyshorts-) - I've been in aviation for 30 years, I am comfortable, but you are correct, you won't make a lot of money being a pilot - those days are long gone. I'm not sure what 'a lot' is though. Can you tell me? 66,300 after two years is not bad IMO.It is pretty bad. Because you don't join NJE with a least 4 years of experience. Elsewhere you can make a lot more in the second year, e.g. Easyjet 90k. The reasoning that you work less here, compared with the airlines, does not hold up anymore, since we have been working like crazy in the last 2, 3 years. If people in bloody cheap Eurowings make more money than us, then something is wrong! And if you want to make big bucks you go and work for the airlines in China: 300k a year.

The pension in the UK is a shame. I have been paying my social contributions in the UK in excess of 10 years now, still the maximum retirement pay/pension will be 159 pounds per week. Can't even go shopping with this.

[Klimax]

When i started aviation, less than a decade ago, Netjets was my dream job, my goal.
it has changed. It's a pilot market now, but Netjets's T&C are pretty bad actually. I didn't even applied

i'm talking about Netjets EU.
USA is pretty good

I would have to concur to this. The 6/5 roster, the training and the ops support is really the only thing speaking in NJE favor. The salary (Captain and F/O) is not appealing. Go Jet Aviation, Tag Aviation and even Global Jet and you on a much better pay deal. It's a shame. NJE will defo not be able to attract the best talents (unless they take absolute rookies and train them for the next 10 years).

[Professor Plum]

Hi all,

Can anyone kindly say say what the pension is for a uk based pilot? I,e how much the company/employee contributes?

sadly not in a position to apply now (I’m military with a few years to go), but the 6/5 and variety is appealing. It’s not just about purely the money for me. Though it always helps!!

Many thanks.

[EatMyShorts!]

At this time most, if not all, UK based crew members are taking part in Scottish Widows. Others are taking part in another pension scheme, which is currently under review. The company pays 50% of what you put in, up to 6500 EUR a year. Not so great.

[Globally Challenged]

At this time most, if not all, UK based crew members are taking part in Scottish Widows. Others are taking part in another pension scheme, which is currently under review. The company pays 50% of what you put in, up to 6500 EUR a year. Not so great.

TAG only pay 5%, private Medical not as good, LOL is not included with many (or maybe most) aircraft.

I used to to be at NJE and would love to return having taken VSP - but the salary is the same as it was 10 years ago and I can’t afford to take such a hit to also sit the RHS for 6-8 years.

A shame as I really liked it.

[EatMyShorts!]

Yes, the real alternative is going to the airlines, preferably in the Far East (for the money, not for fun) or look for a good owner. But you never know what you really get and you may be out of a job after a year or two.

The good news is: the less people are willing to join NJE, the better the package will be that the company will have to offer to all of us.

[Klimax]

Yes, the real alternative is going to the airlines, preferably in the Far East (for the money, not for fun) or look for a good owner. But you never know what you really get and you may be out of a job after a year or two.

The good news is: the less people are willing to join NJE, the better the package will be that the company will have to offer to all of us.

You've got to be dreaming. NJE is like the airline of the corporate jet world. They do what a lot of the established airlines do - lower the entry requirements until they've filled their slots. What I'm saying is - don't hold your breath for that!. Sorry.

[Globally Challenged]

You've got to be dreaming. NJE is like the airline of the corporate jet world. They do what a lot of the established airlines do - lower the entry requirements until they've filled their slots. What I'm saying is - don't hold your breath for that!. Sorry.

Unfortunately agreed.

[EatMyShorts!]

I will hold my breath. Trust me.

[TugaFly]

Anyone that has been through the last selection process fancy shedding some light on the “crew capacity test”

Thanks

[Miserable Old Git]

No idea what it is. The word 'Eagle' gets banded about. Sorry, can't help more than that

[Flyer_123]

If there is any NJE pilot who is using VIE (LOWW) as gateway and is willing to answer a couple of my questions please PM me. I would appreciate that very much.

[seven3heaven]

NJE is a strange one. Personally, I'd love to work for them but the salary just doesn't cut it. When they opened up recruitment I seriously considered applying and I currently have command in a UK based LOCO.
They can't preach to want to recruit 'the best' and offer such poor pay scales.

[buzzc152]

Out of interest, what salary are they offering new hires ?

[EatMyShorts!]

First Officer (FO): EUR 58,500 - until the completion of 24 months of
employment, EUR 66,300 onwards

As mentioned on the other thread?

[McMax]

You’re right seven3heaven!

when I started my flight training, NJE was the company I wanted to work for one day!
They are happily taking the experience, actually asking if you have NAT/ETOPS/VIP experience!

I don’t mind sitting in the right seat of a Phenom 300, but at least pay me according to my previous experience.

Sounds like a job for young pilots with the required minimum of hours.

[stiffupperlip]

10 years of great adventure. I left to try something different. Was it perfect? Never is. Mostly good people- band of brothers. 6/5 party time! If you're up for an adventure and good times, go for it! You'll be a very complete pilot, no airline bordeom. Salary if you can live in eastern or southern europe - party! Don`t know whether they still use the "gateways".

[Miserable Old Git]

Gateways are still used, but the French and Belgium ones have gone

[Miserable Old Git]

All the info here: https://www.kuraaviation.com/docs/NetJets%20FAQ%202018.pdf

[Flyer_123]

Any NJE pilot with experience with paying Social Security in Austria PM pls. Highly appreciated.

[AFrotary]

A question at the Netjets pilots:

After a carreer at the airforce I’m ready to transition to civil aviation. My main reasons to leave the airforce are work-life balance and stability.
Having the choice between Netjets and a LCC, what would you recommend me to do?

[Globally Challenged]

LCC all day long.

Rapid upgrade and the RHS income at pretty much any LCC will far exceed NJE

[Joe le Taxi]

Yes, the aggregated long term difference in salary would be enormous. Home every night too (more or less), for the work/life balance.

Biz jet operators really need to do something about the pay levels. Only in the US is VIP/corporate now a sensible career choice.

[FlyTCI]

Yes, the aggregated long term difference in salary would be enormous. Home every night too (more or less), for the work/life balance.

Biz jet operators really need to do something about the pay levels. Only in the US is VIP/corporate now a sensible career choice.
Actually it’s not. There is an enormous exodus of talent leaving biz jets going to the airlines in the US (similar to what’s heppening in Europe, only to a larger extent) and the brain drain currently happening is a major issue in regards to safety in that part of the industry. Even a career at a ULLC like Spirit offers a better career short- and longterm. Some biz jet operators ​​​are aware of this and try to catch up, but they keep falling short. And, it’s not only about money, it’s about QOL with number of days off per month, some control over your schedule and job security. A newly minted, young pilot in the US would be a fool to look at a long term career in the biz jet side of aviation versus going 121. Best is to quickly get on with a regional carrier, build up your hours and as soon as meeting the requirements apply to the majors.

Bear in mind, I’m a the biz jet pilot myself so I’m not writing this as a 121 pilot recruiter, just relaying what’s going on in the US side of the pond. I have a green card but as I have no intention of moving back to the US I’m staying at my rotational BBJ gig.

[bafanguy]

There is an enormous exodus of talent leaving biz jets going to the airlines in the US (similar to what’s heppening in Europe, only to a larger extent) and the brain drain currently happening is a major issue in regards to safety in that part of the industry. Some biz jet operators ​​​are aware of this and try to catch up, but they keep falling short.

FlyTCI,

That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Is there a central clearinghouse of accurate info about how the biz av industry is actually dealing with this vs commentary about what they're thinking ?

[His dudeness]

FlyTCI,
That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Meanwhile, here in Europe I´m very uneasy about the growth of RyanAir & the like, who in fact are about to dislocate business-aviation. Not been able to park at EGPH overnight (just as an example), airportslots left and right and atc slots massively increasing PLUS the political nuts in the CO2 camp will strangle this part of the business to an extend a pilot shortage will never be able to.

[FlyTCI]

FlyTCI,

That's the impression I've gotten from the bits & pieces I read about biz av in the US. The question I have is whether the owners are willing to abandon the luxury of corporate airplanes rather than do (pay) what it takes to attract and retain the desired level of pilots and talent.

Is there a central clearinghouse of accurate info about how the biz av industry is actually dealing with this vs commentary about what they're thinking ?
There are various companies/organizations out there publishing annual pay guidelines, some better than others, but often they are off (on the low side) of what it would take to attract someone to not go 121.

I’m member of a US based pilot web forum whose members were probably 95% corporate pilots a couple of years ago. Over the last two years a very high number of them, even those flying G’s, Globals, BBJs and so on are crowding the exit doors to “start over” as FOs on everything from the ULLC’s to SWA, the legacy carriers and UPS/FedEx. Due to many of them having been long time in the biz jet part of aviation there’s a wealth of knowledge of just about every biz jet operator out there, and hence it’s quite easy to find out what various operators are offering and when they improve conditions.

Funny enough the first company to foresee this and acted to retain their pilots by offering significantly better contracts was WalMart about two years ago. I believe the number for a LR60 captain is/was close to $200k, better pension contribution and with more days off than they had before. Despite this sizeable increase they still cannot compete with the airlines long term though. The main reasons why some choose to stay corporate is the to not wanting to move/commute to a base, or they are too old to make the move.

There will be, and has to some extent already happened, operators on the lower part of the ladder who have been forced to close due to not being able to staff their planes. So far this is mainly in the 135 world, but my guess this will eventually start to heppen in the 91 world too. They don’t mind spening loads of money on their doctors or lawyers, but the have been so spoilt over the last 20 years or so by the access to cheap pilots that they will refuse to pay what it takes. Those are obviously the kind of people you don’t want to work for anyways, so I say good riddance.

[giord]

Does NJE only hire F/Os ? I am a Falcon 50/900 TRE. Thanks.

[Miserable Old Git]

A question at the Netjets pilots:

After a carreer at the airforce I’m ready to transition to civil aviation. My main reasons to leave the airforce are work-life balance and stability.
Having the choice between Netjets and a LCC, what would you recommend me to do?

Traditional airline = more money (usually)
Big jet = Ego boost + more comfortable.

One of the best part of the NJE deal is the roster. It's 6 on, 5 off and given to you 6 weeks in advance. It cannot be changed without your permission except during training or if you are on a disciplinary. For me, that's more important than the money, but I know other people have different priorities. There is no home standby unless it's on one of your on days - off means off. You may volunteer to work extra days as many of my colleagues do. You will be paid between 600 - 800 euros ish if you do one.

For me personally, the thought of flying backwards and forwards to the same airports every day behind an armoured door would bore me rigid. I have never been bored flying with NJE, but if more money than we offer, fast promotion and a big jet is something you want, it's not the right place for you. If you want varied and interesting flying tours, to work for a very professional company, some manual and visual flying into special airports, contact with customers and to actually get to know the people you work with, I think it's a good job. Not for everyone though.

[alkor]

Does NJE only hire F/Os ? I am a Falcon 50/900 TRE. Thanks.

yes only FO no matter the experience you have. see https://www.kuraaviation.com/docs/NETJETS%20FIRST%20OFFICER%20APPLICATIONS%20FAQ%20v5.pdf

Maybe this will change in the future, but who knows.

[trancada]

KURAAVIATION anounced again openings until 19th November.

With a roster 6 on 5 off what is the averege net per month?

[Delta12]

Here is my two cents to NetJets Europe.
Like most of my colleagues I am more than ten years with NJE.

As definite pro you can say:

-Stable 6on 5off roster. The roster is written in stone. They can ask you to extend, but you are not expected to accept EVER !
-Highly professional operation with all the support from the office you can possibly think of
-Safety is the major concern, if something ist not safe, we do not do it. You are not pushed to do illegal rubbish, the opposite is the case. No outfit for GA Cowboys
-A lot of money is invested into your training, you don't train in the SIM once a year but twice, plus 5 days in Lisbon for ground recurrent training. It is all done within your duty days
-A great bunch of very professional people you will be flying with
-Hotels, Airlines, Ground transports. It will be taken care of from the company
-You have six special days of per year, which you can take in blocks of two days. For example to make sure to be at home when its your son/daughters birthday. Your roster will be shifted around to accommodate these days
-Aircrafts are looked after from maintenance and interior perspective
-The flying you are doing really deserves the name flying. Can't compare to the boredom of flying for an Airline.
-If something dramatic happens at home while you are on a flying tour, you will have all the support you can wish for. They get you home ASAP. Witnessed myself multiple times. NetJets is truly great in this regard !

As cons I would highlight:

-Do not assume you are transitioning from the right hand seat to the left hand seat quickly. It will be many years, don't ask for an estimate really. No one can know for sure.
-You will have to deal with bollocks that you would not have to deal with in any airline. (cleaning, luggage etc etc)
-You will have to sacrifice a good chunk of your salary if you do not already have a nice military/state pension. The pension problem within NetJets is not solved.
-It can be a pain to get vacation in summer when you want it, for example when your kids are off school.
-You will likely join on the Phenom 300 or Citation XLS fleet. Where the Phenom is a great aircraft with impressive avionics, but lacks the space and APU, and the XLS has the APU and almost stand up cabin but.... Its an XLS....


Salary....as mentioned before:

EUR 58,500 - until the completion of 24 months of
employment, EUR 66,300 onwards

Your salary is getting adjusted every year according to OECD inflation rate. You are not getting more yearly, but at least you are not getting less buying power.

If you are living in Portugal you pay a lot of tax, same goes if you happen to live in Denmark.

For countries that have a double taxation agreement with Portugal, which to my knowledge is the majority of the European Countries you will pay a 25% flat income Tax in Portugal and National Insurance in the country you are living in. The later obviously varies from country to country, so one has to do the math individually.

There is almost every year opportunities to top up your income a little bit. By working extra days or even signing up for working 204 or 208 days a year instead of 200.


I think that sums it up. To be honest, when I read the previous comments I find it way too negative. Especially take EatMyShorts comments with a pinch of salt. Lovely guy but a bit on the complaining side of life ;)

This if for sure not the place to come if you want to make the maximum money you possibly can. But it is a nice place to work with great work/life balance.
Churn of the workforce is quite low, which tells a lot.

[binzer]

Delta 12

a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income.

binzer

[EatMyShorts!]

Delta 12

a friend of a friend who works for Netjets assures me he spends the majority of his per diems on tour. It is a TAX FREE allowance which may be taxed in the future if not spent. So other than your information I’m sure everyone in Netjets spends a considerable amount of their per diem income.Correct. In some countries the tax authorities are quite strict and you better keep all your personal expense receipts to prove that you actually spend most of your per-diems or the non-taxed part of it will be reduced even more! I hope that per-diems will be increased at some point to offset taxation and have more net in the end.

@Delta12: I am negative? I am realistic. Please take off your tinted glasses and look outside the box as well to realize that for what we do we are underpaid by quite a bit. An offset would be a fat year-end bonus in good years and we are hopefully going to see it in the near future, as the company is suddenly facing a situation where it cannot attract enough suitable candidates. The fact that our hiring contractor is opening yet another round of assessments is quite telling, because obviously we were not able to fill in the 60 seats so far. If I had a captain seat somewhere else, with a similar salary, I'd rather apply somewhere else. Yes, our roster is nice, our flying is nice, but there some important items (higher per-diems, higher salaries that reflect the current status of the market, a true pension scheme etc.) that need fixing. Churn is low? Excuse me, we lost more than 40 pilots in 2018, among them very senior captains who cannot afford to continue without a proper pension plan. I am 100% positive that 9 out of 10 of them loved the roster and the flying, but they took a rational decision. At the moment most crew members do NOT have a proper pension plan, but rather a savings plan: the money that goes in is taken from your net-salary and when you get money out later, you will pay tax again. Ok, the employer contribution is up to 6500 EUR a year, but that's a very low amount. I rather keep all my net salary and invest it myself.

So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left, because on the market you can easily make much more money, which comes at a price (roster, conditions etc), no doubt. For me personally, the PROs win over the CONs, too. And we are trying to resolve the CONs, but it is not happening overnight. The more people leave and the less people decide join us, the better for us, because the company will be forced to protect its operation. Logical. So, I am still holding my breath for better things to come - not because the company loves us, because they finally need us again!

[skaterboi]

Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.

Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic?

[Delta12]

So, if I was a real complainer, I'd have long left

In my experience complainers never leave ;)

[EatMyShorts!]

Could any UK based NJE pilots please confirm the tax arrangements? I was under the impression that zero tax was paid in Portugal and the ONLY tax paid was UK income tax and NI.

Secondly, time to command has been suggested by the recruiters to be 6 years. Are you all saying that to be unrealistic?Taxwise, that seems to be accurate. Time to command can be 6 years. Or longer, it all depends whether if and how fast the fleet will grow, how many pilots will decide to go and work elsewhere. In other words, we are looking at a crystal ball here. We currently have about 200 F/Os who will upgrade first, if I am not mistaken.

[EatMyShorts!]

In my experience complainers never leave ;)Some complainers never leave, true. And many other "complainers" are genuinely interested in staying and making the company better, they just cannot hold back on communicating their frustrations to others. It's a bit like "Africa": it could be sooooo much better.

[buzzc152]

Excuse me stepping for a bit of fact checking ;
18 people left this last year, not 40.
For a Uk based crew, all your taxes are paid in the UK.
How you spend Per Diems is your choice. Personally, I generally spend less than 100 euros per tour. I think this is fairly typical.
We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit. I’m not sure exactly what they are looking for.
Now my opinion ; New joiners will be looking at least 8 years to command. No way in as little as 6. Total income including bonus, per diems, overtime if you wish to do it & salary after a few years will be around €80,000 for an FO. Plus company provided health, LOL, life insurance.
NJ is not perfect but it beats the heck out of most jobs out there. You’d be mad to think otherwise.

[skaterboi]

Thanks Buzz, much appreciated.

[EatMyShorts!]

@buzz: yes, it beats a lot of GA-jobs, no doubt. But I thought we were more like an airline with certain GA-characteristics. The LOL is a very light version, compared to other programs. The life insurance is, too.
And only 18 pilots have left this year? I heard this incorrect number as well, but we were already at 36 in August... but I am sure I got the numbers wrong and I am just a mean complainer who will never be happy! :)

Just to be sure: Netjets is a great place and I recommend it to FOs with intermediate experience. Most captains will not be happy as it will take them a long time to become captains, unless they agree to join the office in Lisbon and sell their soul for a left seat. You can be sure that not too many pilots on the line are too content about these people.

[Arthur1815]

EMS
I'm sure you are both loved and needed. You have some valid points and I do believe the company is trying to address your Cons. I think your churn figure is too high; brief last week was less than half that as a rolling 12 month figure. There has been a slight increase but still way below industry norms. With more opportunities available I think it is inevitable the churn will increase a little. Time will tell how competitive we remain.

For perspective new hires we need to put our internal comments, driven by a long period of career stagnation in context:

We are financially secure; something most of our competitors crews cannot say with confidence. There appears to be a cunning plan for controlled growth without over exposing us to the next downturn and we are now hiring and upgrading in fairly significant numbers. I believe the 6 year to upgrade estimate is reasonable, especially in a competitive hiring environment and the beginning of age related retirements just over the horizon.

Overall I think Delta12's comments are pretty accurate and we have the nice problem of keeping up with demand in 2019.

[Delta12]

Some complainers never leave, true. And many other "complainers" are genuinely interested in staying and making the company better, they just cannot hold back on communicating their frustrations to others. It's a bit like "Africa": it could be sooooo much better.

Please do not take it personal, it is just my impression. Remember I said you are a nice guy as well, for sure one with a good heart :ok:
I edited the part with the PD, agree, not too clever what I did. Simply did not think before texting :ooh: Sorry

[EatMyShorts!]

All cool, I was just a bit surprised to be called a complainer, as we both know people who complain literally about anything, even a payrise, because it was probably 10 Cents short of their expectations :D

[Humane Maverick]

Good morning.
Can anyone help me providing information about the bases where you can operate from home?
An example, because I live very close to Alicante. This is one of the most busy airports in Spain, but I see (maybe I am wrong) that in Spain there are only three bases, MAD, BCN and AGP (Málaga).
Can you confirm this true?
Do you think that, if hired, I can agree with the Company to have ALC as a Gateway for Operations?
Thanks a lot.

[EatMyShorts!]

Hi HM, yes, this is true: at this time only MAD, BCN and AGP are official gateways, due to seasonality of the airlines. You cannot change this.

We have had PMI as a temporary and seasonal summer gateway this year and last year and we are trying to add more, but they will only be available during summer months when there is a sufficient number of direct flights to key airports in Europe.

[Humane Maverick]

Thanks for your answer!

[doglegfinal]

.......
We have received HUNDREDS of applications for the 60 available positions. They are being very particular about who they recruit.

Well if that's the case, why has Kura reopened the application? And why are people who either got the PFO or didn't make it thru the selection invited to apply again?

[EatMyShorts!]

The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.

[Klimax]

The issue is that Netjets has a good reputation, but when people see the contractual conditions, primarily the money and pension scheme, they take their application back.

For the rookie pilot, I'd still see NJE as a great training institution and a kick start to the corporate and business jet world. 3-5 years at NJE and you'll be loaded with good training and flying hours, and your next step is to enter a better paying large cabin business jet operator and get your command a year or two later. NJE pilots are respected at the private jet management companies and they'll be happy to welcome them on-board, upgrade and remunerate according to equipment and client. NJE can function just like some of the airlines, as a stepping stone, that benefits the pilot. For the more experienced corporate pilot, I don't really see any good reason to go for NJE, unless you're unemployed or desperate for the 6/5 roster style offered. For sure you wouldn't go to NJE for the money - even before considering the "on-shore" setup NJE operate with.

[dirk85]

In my experience large cabin business jet operator do not care much at all in which company you were working before: it is mostly about connections, and the type ratings that you have. Having flown for NJE is not going to give any significant advantage in that regard.

[Globally Challenged]

Speaking from a painful position of experience - other operators (well mine at least) show no interest in upgrading experienced FOs and appear to have no forward plan.

So when a captain job comes up, their lengthy upgrade process effectively means the existing FOs (the 3 FOs on our gig have 11-13 years experience of bizjet) don’t get a look in and an external (sometimes non-rated) captain gets helicoptered in.

So while it it may take time at NJE, at least everyone gets a fair crack at upgrade and no special handshakes required.

[Klimax]

Not my experience from Hong Kong operators. Upgrading FOs from within was normal. Maybe the Swiss and Austrians operators have a different policy. I stand to be corrected.

[Globally Challenged]

I’m in a large UK operator (although they do have a few other AOCs)

[Moonwalker]

For the rookie pilot, I'd still see NJE as a great training institution and a kick start to the corporate and business jet world. 3-5 years at NJE and you'll be loaded with good training and flying hours, and your next step is to enter a better paying large cabin business jet operator and get your command a year or two later. NJE pilots are respected at the private jet management companies and they'll be happy to welcome them on-board, upgrade and remunerate according to equipment and client. NJE can function just like some of the airlines, as a stepping stone, that benefits the pilot. For the more experienced corporate pilot, I don't really see any good reason to go for NJE, unless you're unemployed or desperate for the 6/5 roster style offered. For sure you wouldn't go to NJE for the money - even before considering the "on-shore" setup NJE operate with.

Yeah and then you come out on the market with a Phenom 300 rating.... Good luck. Not even the airlines would be interesting in you and if they are there is a risk you have to start from the bottom in a TP operator or as a Cadet in a low cost A320/737 operator.

[Klimax]

Yeah and then you come out on the market with a Phenom 300 rating.... Good luck. Not even the airlines would be interesting in you and if they are there is a risk you have to start from the bottom in a TP operator or as a Cadet in a low cost A320/737 operator.

Yup, as mentioned, NJE is about the quality training received and the general daily ops of the company and to some extend the 6/5 work schedule, most of the rest is just cr@p.

[Delta12]

Yup, as mentioned, NJE is about the quality training received and the general daily ops of the company and to some extend the 6/5 work schedule, most of the rest is just cr@p.

Bolt statement :D
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ?

[Delta12]

PPJN must be operated by a true NetJets hater :ooh:

Information full of bollox, as has been in the past.

"No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer"
-The only way one would find himself with a 5/3 roster is volunteering for extra days big time.

"Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years"
-Good to know someone finally found that famous crystal ball :ok:

"Growth currently and expected to be minimal"
-Must be right if they say so, its just the opposite from what I witness

At least they finally stopped promoting VistaJet as heaven on earth

[EatMyShorts!]

Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)

Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Netjets_Europe)

Let me do it:
Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer.=no quarterly limits is technically not correct when you opt for the 204 or 208 option, but effectively you will work 5/3 on a number of occasions, during the summer peak. Working 5/3 a few times in a row definitely feels like "no quarterly limits", or are we just spoilt pussies?

Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct:
200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance.

Upgrades:
No DEC. Upgrade by seniority only. Time to upgrade ESTIMATE 10 to 15 years, greatly dependent company growth and pilots leaving. Growth currently and expected to be minimal. Pilots leaving moderate. Pilots leaving due to lack of pension and career perspectivesThis statement is a bit over the top, regarding the years until upgrade, it is rather a worst-case scenario. Realistically we are looking at 5 to 10 years for new hires, depending on growth. Our growth is minimal - do you remember 2004 until 2009? That was hyper-growth, now we are growing AT LEAST slowly, better than stagnation.

I believe that most of us at NJE would see Vista as a step down in their careers, unless you are looking for a possible quick command - in case that this is still possible there. Most pilots who have left this and last year headed for the airlines, a few stayed in corporate aviation, but took a step up, e.g. on a BBJ or G650 etc..

[Delta12]

Sorry Delta, but there's a grain of truth to it and you should quote the information from PPJN correctly, without leaving context out ;)

Netjets Europe pilot jobs news for airline pilots and aviation schools (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Netjets_Europe)

Let me do it:
=no quarterly limits is technically not correct when you opt for the 204 or 208 option, but effectively you will work 5/3 on a number of occasions, during the summer peak. Working 5/3 a few times in a row definitely feels like "no quarterly limits", or are we just spoilt pussies?

Regarding quarterly limits the information at PPJN is correct

Thanks for helping me out EMS, but.... PPJN clearly states that in Summer you have to expect a 5/3 Roster ! The 204 or 208 option is mentioned in the previous sentence, its clear as mud and very confusing what they put there.

You only do 5/3 when you apply for working more, which you do not have to !

Obviously, you have to accept a 5/3 Roster if you VOLUNTEER for extra duty.

If you volunteer for jack ****, you do not work a 5/3 pattern.

They moved NetJets from Portugal to the UK on PPJN.
As far as I am aware our AOC is in Portugal.

IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ.

[Klimax]

Bolt statement :D
You sure you know the company or just a bit grim or jealous ?

Jealous? Are you joking or for real? That’s actually quite funny! Just in case ur serious - the answer is NO!

[Klimax]

IMHO the guys behind PPJN are constantly bashing NJ.

It seems that people, that don’t seem to share YOUR opinion on NJE, they are all just “bashing” the company you work for. A tart close minded it appears like.

[Delta12]

It seems that people, that don’t seem to share YOUR opinion on NJE, they are all just “bashing” the company you work for. A tart close minded it appears like.


Beside... There is opinions and there is facts :ugh:

[His dudeness]

Beside... There is opinions and there is facts :ugh:

And there is the fact that how you perceive facts directly influences how you form opinions.

So in short its simply personal thing. E.g. the pay at NJE would have been a very good one for me, say 12 years ago and these days I wouldn´t like to earn that little. When NJE offered all the options for the pilots it did in 2009 (?) when things looked dire, I was very surprised that they did that and not just sacked everybody deemed to be surplus. I personally know a pilot who could stay on with one of the offered options who would have been sacked in most if not all other outfits. Took a financial damage but kept the job.

PS: I hate NJE, cause they want to take my job away and they really try hard. Thats not the pilots, but the company itself, I hasten to add.

[EatMyShorts!]

@Delta12: I think you misunderstood the information at PPJN. Let me quote the entire paragraph:
200 working days per year. Max. 49 in 1st and 4th quarter and 51 in 2nd and 3rd quarter. 6 Special Days off per year (request only, not guaranteed and do not count towards 200 working days). Normally, 6 on/5 off, 7 on/6off long range fleet, but can be changed if training event/SDO/Vacation in quarter, in reality that means always. 6/5 is semi-stable. Roster published 1.5 months in advance. Now 204/208 working days available. No quarterly limits, expect 5/3 during the summer. The author stated that there are quarterly limits (49/51/51/49). In the end he explains that you can now volunteer for 204/208 which effectively removes those quarterly limits as you will end up with 4 or 8 more days during the summer months, resulting in 5/3 rosters. It was probably written by a non-native English speaker and the wording is a bit ambiguous, but somehow even I understood it with my faked LPC 6 :D

I also would like to point out that anyone can edit the content, I actually just applied some corrections to the name of the operator, its country and the duty days to make it more clear. They are not being shown yet, I guess they need to be approved by an admin/mod first. Also, don't overlook their Disclaimer:
Disclaimer: The entries on this site are provided by voluntary contributers. Neither PPJN nor its site administrators can be held responsible for any entries herein. We rely on the honesty and integrity of our contributers. By using this website you are agreeing to these terms.

But let's not argue over little things like these... sorry to the other readers here, we normally don't have these kinds of discussions on the line. And for the record: I really enjoy working for Netjets, I have been at this outfit since 2004...



@His dudeness: I understand that our company is a potential threat to your job. As long as your boss is tight on money, you are not in danger :) NJE is quite costly for owners and not everyone appreciates the reasons why we are so expensive.

[seymoursigg]

Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one.

I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions?

Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there.

[Arthur1815]

Not sure I would recommend Netjets. 6 Year upgrade for new hires??? Difficult to predict but nowhere near the mark. Although having said that, the forced redeployment of Gulfstream pilots to the Excel fleet? may prompt those to leave creating a few more openings.
No pension to speak of nor any prospect of one.

I don't see how they would be able to attract anybody given the current conditions?

Look elsewhere first would be my advice, there are good opportunities out there.

One post, all wrong. Disregard

[EatMyShorts!]

Really, Arthur...

[Arthur1815]

Yes, but the required response about fleet plan and refleeting is not for here. The first hires we abviously could not attract have already been released to the line.

[EatMyShorts!]

Excuse me? During the first round of hiring we did not get close to the number we wanted, a lot of potential candidates politely declined our hiring-offer when they saw the contract. Of the current round of new hires not a single one has been released yet, but this is normal. Arthur, please don't do too much propaganda here. Netjets is a great place for us oldtimer captains, but not for new hires.

[Miserable Old Git]

As far as applications go, we did get far more than we wanted. However, the screening process whittled that number down quite a bit. I can check this week what the real numbers look like. Note that for the current recruitment, the window for applications will close at midnight 30 Nov.

[Dragonlight]

Hi all,

Some great info in this thread so thanks to everyone who's contributed. Just out of interest, I see the topic of command popping up but I wondered what the policy is within NJE with regard to fleet transfer? Is moving up the fleet size a relatively formal process and if one were to say move from the Phenom to the Challenger, would you drop to the bottom of the seniority list for command down the line?

Genuinely just interested to hear how it works.

Kind regards,
DL.

[EatMyShorts!]

Hi DL,

no, seniority is seniority and that is independent from your fleet movements. It may be that a fleet move will be denied, because an upgrade is just around the corner.

[CL300]

And for what seniority is really worth ( besides the points for vacation :-) ) .. no worries...

[Dragonlight]

Thanks EMS,

Much appreciated. Good to know seniority doesn't change and interesting to hear the fleet move / upgrade perspective. NJE looks like a great opportunity for those in a position to apply.

Cheers!
DL.

[EatMyShorts!]

NJE looks like a great opportunity for those in a position to apply.As mentioned before, with the current contract, NJE might be a choice for younger, experienced pilots who have time to wait for an upgrade. The money and pension are not the greatest, but at least we have a private life. So I cannot recommend it fully to any pilot, because expectations might be differing from what you actually get.

[Flyer_123]

What is the usual time for fleet change, from phenom or xls to larger cabin?

[Private jet]

Hi all,

Can anyone kindly say say what the pension is for a uk based pilot? I,e how much the company/employee contributes?

sadly not in a position to apply now (I’m military with a few years to go), but the 6/5 and variety is appealing. It’s not just about purely the money for me. Though it always helps!!

Many thanks.


After a cushy number subsidised by your military pension no doubt. People like you sunshine are not the solution. You are part of the problem.

[EatMyShorts!]

What is the usual time for fleet change, from phenom or xls to larger cabin?Hard to say. It all depends on current market conditions, fleet growth and the number of people leaving or retiring. You start off with a 2 year seat-lock, from there on you will be competing with others in the bids and that ranking is driven by seniority.

[Arthur1815]

[QUOTE=Private jet;10323826]After a cushy number subsidised by your military pension no doubt. People like you sunshine are not the solution. You are part of the problem.[/QUOTE

Very constructive; bell end!

PP see #15. I suspect it will be different by the time you swop the colour of your suit.

[Miserable Old Git]

Hey Private Jet, do you want to explain your comment? I’ve seen great ex mil guys and poor ones too. What’s your problem? Please let us know

[His dudeness]

Hey Private Jet, do you want to explain your comment? I’ve seen great ex mil guys and poor ones too. What’s your problem? Please let us know

Hei MOG, you find that really hard to understand ?

[Professor Plum]

Private jet,

Wow!

[bafanguy]

After a cushy number subsidised by your military pension no doubt. People like you sunshine are not the solution. You are part of the problem.

I would suggest that perhaps Private jet is expressing frustration with people who have other steady sources of income entering the private aviation sector. Some of these folks are willing to accept lower Ts&Cs because they aren’t under the same financial pressure as others slogging it out from Square One.

This creates a problem for those trying to apply economic pressure on companies to keep pay high. A distant cousin to those willing to P2F.

Just a thought...not taking a stand on either side. Just musing.

[EatMyShorts!]

bafanguy got it right. But I do not share Professor Plum's sentiment. The majority of our former military pilots are not riding the "I can take any low salary and always say YES"-train. There are some civilian pilots who always say YES and are willing to do anything. They will always exist on "both sides" - maybe because they are aware that they wouldn't land a medium to good job anywhere else.

[Professor Plum]

Erm....

who actually said I’d have a pension immediately after leaving the military? I didn’t. These days you have to do 20 years to get one. I’m won’t be doing 20 years. Hence why I asked about the pension in the first place.

So what second income will I have when I leave? Answer: I won’t!

i was merely trying to find out more about what life’s like at netjets. And for the record-I won’t accept rubbish T&C’s. Like most experienced pilots, I’ll either stay where I am or look elsewhere.

[CL300]

General scheme is that coming from military you will get a form of pension, where at NJE there is virtually zero, especially if you happen to be fired ( same for loss of licence and other goodies, everything stops (if has not changed since 2013) )when you part with the company. Your health coverage is the same, once out, all gone , whatever your health condition, this is of course without counting for uncovered diseases that leaves you with zero virtually overnight.
Netjets was a great place when we get in early 2000; and for the one's that managed to stay it is great as well. Nowadays for new joiners, it is still a tad better than the **** flying around; but at the first downturn, you will be left with zero.

But operation is still easy, AFAIK, scheduling is at its best, tightly followed by travel I suppose.

Netjets is a league on its own, do not try to compare, it is impossible; get in there, go with the flow, follow the rules and this is it..

[Pilot35]

Dears,

Do you know is there is any bond with the rating?

Txs

[buzzc152]

Yes. 2 years I believe.

[EatMyShorts!]

To be precise, the bond is 2 years for light and mid-size fleets, 3 years for super mid-size and larger aircraft.

[Globally Challenged]

Further to the above - there was talk of some new entrants joining the F2000 due to sim availability on the Phenom / XLS so the 3 year bond would then apply.

You won't find out your type until the indoc course and it could change several times during that week based on requirements

[EatMyShorts!]

@GloballyChallenged: Apparently things have changed these days and successful applicants receive the information re fleet well before going on Indoc.

[Klimax]

I’m in a large UK operator (although they do have a few other AOCs)

ok, fair enough, guess it boils down to the willingness and the forward looking management of the company. Train and retain - something too many ****ty operators don't understand.

[Globally Challenged]

@GloballyChallenged: Apparently things have changed these days and successful applicants receive the information re fleet well before going on Indoc.

I'll let you know - I'm apparently due to be receiving my contract to return this week

[Pilot35]

I'll let you know - I'm apparently due to be receiving my contract to return this week
Congrats Globally, looking forward for some feedback on the process...

[Pilot35]

Dears,

Any chance a NJE pilot living in Germany could detail the tax system there? Still 25% in Portugal then additional tax in Germany? Or all paid in Germany?
Per diems are taxable?

Txs in advance....

[EatMyShorts!]

Germany: 25% tax in Portugal, no other taxes (for Netjets income) in Germany. Social security/pension paid in Germany according to German law. Per diems? What per diems? ;)

[Miserable Old Git]

Eat My Shorts is correct, backed up by some German residents I know who work for us

[Pilot35]

Txs for your reply guys...

[bully85]

Hi guys, does anyone know when NJ is going to hire again in 2019?

Also the KURA website isn’t working anymore, you have to login ( but you can’t create a new account :/ )

[EatMyShorts!]

Hi bully,

for the time being there are no plans of hiring more people, sorry!

[bully85]

Eatmyshorts thanks for ur response.

:(