Weather Limits for a newly qualified pilot

[Robopilotforeever]

Hi All,

Please could you all help, I am looking for some advice on weather limits for a newly qualified PPL VFR. 1500m viz 600ft cloud base doesn’t some very nice.

Thanks in adavance!

[SASless]

Solid VFR....the greater the visibility the lower you can go with the ceiling.....and the closer to your home airfield/heliport (thus the better you know the area) the lower minimums you can use.

Avoid low visibility....and NEVER get into a situation you cannot see to avoid obstacles!

In time you can expand your environment....but be very cautious how and when you do that.

Remember we all have days we should stay at home in bed with the covers pulled up over our heads!

If you are not hitting on all cylinders....add some margins for safety sake!

[SuperF]

Start with Bluebird days that skiers love.

Blue sky, no clouds, or very few, little wind. then slowly go from there. You can get to 1500/600 when you have a few years and quite a few hours experience.

[Bravo73]

Start with 5km viz and 1000ft cloudbase.

[Peter3127]

Think also about the gust spread in the wind. I would rather fly in steady 25 kts than 10G25.

[[email protected]]

Windy days are one of those things you want to introduce yourself gradually to - its very easy to end up embarrassed.

Bravo73's suggestion is ideal but add in max wind of 15 kts steady or gusting to your limits until you gain more airborne time.

[paco]

I prefer speed to vis limits - if I don't like what I see at 60 kts, that's where I stop. That means your stabilising surfaces will generally still be working.

[Non-PC Plod]

As an addendum to what Paco has said - the weather needs to be commensurate with the speed you are going to fly. If you are going to be cruising from A to B at 100 kts, you are going to need much better vis than if you are doing circuits at home base at 70 kts. If you are just going to hover taxi around the airfield, you can do it in much reduced conditions. Anything that takes you out of your comfort zone eg busy traffic, unfamiliar area etc: add on an extra to your personal minima to help your situational awareness.

[rotorspeed]

Again Bravo73’s 5km and 1000ft cloudbase is a good start, but be very careful where this is taken from, especially when flying around hilly terrain. Check the elevation of the ground at least 10nm either side of your proposed track and work out what cloud base you can expect on your route by reference to TAFs and better still the last METAR at the nearest weather stations.

And then, most importantly, fly what you have, not what you expected! If is it worse - and it sometimes will be - turn back early. Have a diversion plan always in your mind. And if you really feel uneasy, just land somewhere sensible. It is very rare that a landowner will get upset when you explain. Better to work out when and where you can go when you’re on the ground with no pressure.

[DeltaNg]

Remember in the UK the 500' rule applies, even to HEMS.

If you are in 1500m viz it's hard to maintain 500' above "Persons, Vessels, Vehicles and Structures" unless you are over open moorland, or the sea.

[chopjock]

Remember in the UK the 500' rule applies, even to HEMS.

If you are in 1500m viz it's hard to maintain 500' above "Persons, Vessels, Vehicles and Structures" unless you are over open moorland, or the sea.

Are you sure it is "above" and not "not closer than"?

[DeltaNg]

OK - 'closer than' is the exact wording.

Just bear it in mind and be careful.

[Robopilotforeever]

Thank you all, I am overwhelmed with your response! Much appreciated! Thanks

[John R81]

You are newly qualified - as once was I. Don't be shy of paying for an instructor to go out with you - I still do several times each year - as there is always more to learn. How to hands blusterier days could be one of those occasions.

One thing that has worked fro me: set your minimum clearance / fwd vision for maintained speed now (on the ground) and stick to those limits when you are in the air. It's all too easy to "try just a little harder" when things start to close in. Mine is 600 ft / 60 knts. I have the benefit of a radio altimeter, which I set 250ft above my minimum clearance altitude so if I am being pushed lower I get the warning long before reaching my personal threshold; and on the odd occasion I have heard the horn I have turned around and gone back for a cup of tea.

Enjoy your flying

[SASless]

Above all.....Enjoy your flying!

It is supposed to be fun!

[sycamore]

Think about the height needed to enter a full autorotation,complete a full 180 dg turn, pick your spot and complete a landing....You should have done it with an instructor;if not,go and get some practice,then use that as a basis for x-country flying.....

As SAS says, enjoy,but be `in tune with the engine and RRPM...

[172510]

What is a 1500m vis?Visibiliy is the distance a which a black object of suitable dimensions, situated near the ground, can be seen and recognized when observed against a bright background;
It means the distance a which you can see a hard surface runway. With a 1500m vis you will never identify a grass runway.
What visibility do you need to land VFR?
You need to see the runway while doing your circuit. At the standard approach path angle of 3°, a 3000m visibility will allow you the see the runway (provided it's a hard surface one) at a 500 ft height. (Basic trigonometry).

Below 3000 visibility you can't see the ground ahead of you, you must look sideways, it's difficult not only to find your way, but also to keep the wings level.

At 5000m it becomes uncomfortable, but still reasonably safe, provided it does not worsen.

[SASless]

Helicopter Pilots rarely get to use paved Runways....that is not what we are about.

I challenge you to prove your statement that it is impossible to identify a grass runway with 1500 Meters of Visibility or less.

How do you reckon that to be so?

Your 1500 Meters roughly equates to One Statute Mile.....which is adequate Visibility for a Helicopter (especially with the advent of GPS which makes finding the Airfield ...even if a grass runway).

[Two's in]

However, once you have taken all the great advice here, expanding on what John R81 said, find an experienced instructor and go out on a really murky (but legal) day. By staying in your local area you will be amazed at how the scenery changes with murk and drizzle. Familiar landmarks disappear, vertical changes become less obvious and hazards appear obscenely close when you know you can't climb above them because of a low, or ill-defined, ceiling. Get professional tuition and learn to recognize the hazards of poor visibility and variable weather conditions before you absolutely need that skill - don't have your first experience of weather on the limits when you are on your own with few options.

[Hughes500]

172510
I suggest you need to go to supersavers if you cant see a grass runway at 1500m

[JimL]

172510's frame of reference is established in this sentence:

You need to see the runway while doing your circuit. At the standard approach path angle of 3°, a 3000m visibility will allow you the see the runway (provided it's a hard surface one) at a 500 ft height. (Basic trigonometry).

The assumption is that the (required) Field of View (FOV) is directly related to the slant range visibility associated with this approach angle (a not unreasonable assumption with large fixed-wing aeroplanes). Within this frame of reference, at 500', nothing can be seen in front of the aeroplane that is closer than 3,000 m.

Of course that is an unsafe assumption because the FOV in helicopters has been improved such that steeper approach angles and flexible departure and arrival angles/profiles are facilitated.

However, there is a serious point within this post and that is that as visibility reduces, it may be necessary to reduce the operating height (sometimes below a safe level) to ensure that visual contact, ahead of the helicopter, can be maintained. This is necessary for two reasons: (1) to ensure that there are sufficient visual cues to maintain control; and, (2) to maintain spacial awareness. Both of these are important for an inexperienced pilot because they improve confidence and assure well-being.


Jim

[SASless]

However, there is a serious point within this post and that is that as visibility reduces, it may be necessary to reduce the operating height (sometimes below a safe level) to ensure that visual contact, ahead of the helicopter, can be maintained. This is necessary for two reasons: (1) to ensure that there are sufficient visual cues to maintain control; and, (2) to maintain spacial awareness. Both of these are important for an inexperienced pilot because they improve confidence and assure well-being.

I can agree to that.

I am still wanting to hear an explanation why the Sod Runway is invisible with a 1.5 km Visibility.

Pierre certainly drew a distinction between paved (assuming asphalt and not a light colored concrete surface) and grass.

A link to any Peer Reviewed Study would be acceptable....or even some sort of Technical Study that would confirm Grass becomes invisible somehow due to reduced visibility.

[[email protected]]

Visibiliy is the distance a which a black object of suitable dimensions, situated near the ground, can be seen and recognized when observed against a bright background;
It means the distance a which you can see a hard surface runway. With a 1500m vis you will never identify a grass runway. What bright background? Snow? In 1500m vis, nothing will be bright since that depends on the reflectance/albedo of the surface and not much light is getting through anywhere if the vis is that bad.

It is all about contrast since that's what the human eye recognises (anyone who has flown on NVG will tell you that) - a grass strip in a field of light crops will stand out just as much as a tarmac runway. A grass strip on a grass field will be much harder to spot but not if it has distinct edge and threshold markings.

[airpolice]

Are you sure it is "above" and not "not closer than"?

This is the perfect example of why any advice given on here needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

People respond with their (wrong) interpretation of the rules , as if it was fact.

The good news, if there is any, is that hopefully DeltaNg now understands Rule 5(b).


The 500 feet rule.

Except with the written permission of the CAA, an aircraft shall not be flown closer than 500 feet to any person, vessel, vehicle or structure.

[paco]

Just to make it clearer, you can be 2 feet above the ground but still not closer than, etc.

[oldbeefer]

After 40 yrs of military flying, my best advice would be to chicken out EARLY. Along with that is Don't press on - LAND ON. Most pilots are not as good as they think they are - the old adage that 'there are old pilots and bold pilots - there are not many that are both!'

[whoknows idont]

As usual, a comment from the side lines: This is hands down my favorite thread on here. First of all, I bow to the thread starter for asking this question instead of being completely taken in by hatching plans for doing wannabe aerobatics at the next best vlog-tinder-hipster wedding.
Secondly, lots of honest and excellent advise from true professionals without the usual bs. I really hope we can keep it that way all the way through.
:ok:

[airpolice]

Just to make it clearer, you can be 2 feet above the ground but still not closer than, etc.

I think you mean 2 feet above the surface.

[paco]

Yep - I meant ground in a generic sense! And believe it or not there is a legal difference between "with the surface in sight" and in sight of the surface"!

[sycamore]

Wasn`t there a 60m rule,if you were doing low hovering manoeuvres on an airfield...?

[Hughes500]

Sycamore, that is to do with the edge of the airfield ie you had to be 60m from a building etc etc. In practice that doesnt work, eg Dunkeswell where the refuelling pads are within 25m f the public highway !

[sycamore]

H500,thanks.

[Thomas coupling]

Rule 5 went out with the arc.
we're in the EU for another 7 months, so: SERA 5005 (F) (2) please☺
these are and should be the basics for a wannabee.
notice the 150m clearance provides a 'dome' around the aircraft.
should there be no "persons, vehicles, vessels, structures - one can fly as close to the ground as one wishes (outcas).
Not recommended for newbie's however until experienced.
In the cruise: COCISS and sufficient speed to avoid IIMC.

[SASless]

I am glad there is no bureaucracy in the UK/EU/CAA/EASA Aviation Rules and Regulations.

Now...when ya'll finally get around to Brexit/Brexit-Lite or whatever version finally gets implemented....it would appear owning Shares in Paper Stock and Ink Futures might be a good buy!