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View Full Version : A321 NEO autoland prohibition


tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 09:25
There is a temporary prohibition in the FCOM limitations section prohibiting autolands in CFM powered A321 NEO aircraft.
Does anybody happen to know why?

atakacs
15th Aug 2018, 11:18
Do you have a source for that ?

tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 15:54
"CAT 2, CAT 3 (single or dual) automatic approaches and Autoland are not authorized. This restriction applies and superseeds all limitations concerning CAT 2, CAT 3 and Autoland in the following sections of the FCOM. The flight crews must apply CAT 1 minima for ILS /GLS approaches, and must not use the Autoland function."

It is an FCOM Tdu
This limitation is issued to inform neo Operators of an operational limitation that restricts the aircraft approach capability and Autoland capability. The release of a new FG standard will remove this limitation.

atakacs
15th Aug 2018, 16:03
Hmm

Only the 321? Interresting

tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 16:36
I was wondering if has something to do with the rigging angles of the flaps as the A321Neo has been altered to make the heavyweight ones approach CAT C again. Rumour at one A321 neo operator was that it was to do with clearance of the exhaust cone on touchdown

gearlever
15th Aug 2018, 20:00
"CAT 2, CAT 3 (single or dual) automatic approaches and Autoland are not authorized.

So it's not only about Autoland.
CAT 2 auto approaches "are not authorized" also.

tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 20:22
Read it again. The autoland function is not to be used. Airbus expect the autoland function to be used in typical line ops though some operators on partcularly windy norhern islands seem keen to fly a Cat 2 and then perform a manual landing, often up to the max crosswind capability of the aircraft.

gearlever
15th Aug 2018, 20:27
I simply don't get it.
The flight crews must apply CAT 1 minima for ILS /GLS approaches, and must not use the Autoland function."

For me it says CAT 2 not authorized.

Stand to be corrected.

tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 20:47
Airbus expect a Cat 2 to utilise the autoland function.

gearlever
15th Aug 2018, 20:54
Airbus expect a Cat 2 to utilise the autoland function.

In this case the FCOM Tdu IMHO should simply say "NO AUTOLAND".

tubby linton
15th Aug 2018, 21:12
In this case the FCOM Tdu IMHO should simply say "NO AUTOLAND".
It does, with a bit of explanation!

Pugilistic Animus
16th Aug 2018, 03:35
Are they under an AD of some sort? Just curious

ESQU
17th Aug 2018, 17:04
The company I work for recently introduced the 321 and the fcom has the above Autoland limitations. But a very recent notice to crew describing the differences has cancelled the fcom autoland limitation.

WHBM
17th Aug 2018, 17:39
Read it again. I had to several times to get the sense. Pity those non-lawyers for whom English is not their first language.

I was wondering if has something to do with the rigging angles of the flaps Does anyone recall another A321 (but not others) landing issue back in the earlier days of the type, that prevented its use on shorter runways for a while, as full flaps were temporarily not permitted. BMI (as it was then) into Belfast City had to substitute it. I gathered that was a flaps configuration issue as well.

Major Cleve Saville
17th Aug 2018, 18:13
Airbus expect a Cat 2 to utilise the autoland function.
The certification process for CAT II is for/assumes a manual landing.

tubby linton
17th Aug 2018, 20:06
The certification process for CAT II is for/assumes a manual landing.
From the FCTM

“The automatic landing is the preferred landing technique in CAT II conditions”

gearlever
17th Aug 2018, 21:35
I had to several times to get the sense. Pity those non-lawyers for whom English is not their first language.



Not a lawyer, non English native speaker, but yes it's typical Airbus twaddle.

wiedehopf
17th Aug 2018, 22:39
The question really is what is an automatic approach. Don't you need the autopilot to minima even with a CATII manual landing?

Also the wording regarding minima clearly states no approaches to CATII minima. Even if it appends not autoland, it is clear regarding the other point.

If it really excludes manually landed CATII approaches i would be very surprised.

LW20
17th Aug 2018, 23:14
" The flight crews must apply CAT 1 minima for ILS /GLS approaches, and must not use the Autoland function."


It's very clear: No approach if weather is below CAT1. And also no autoland in all conditions incl. CAT 1 weather.

Major Cleve Saville
18th Aug 2018, 02:44
From the FCTM

“The automatic landing is the preferred landing technique in CAT II conditions”

Preferred is not mandatory. In CAT II you have a choice which is why at the certification stage it is done with a manual landing.

hikoushi
18th Aug 2018, 08:49
The Pratt GTF 321NEO had the same limitation for a time. Was told something to do with the airplane entering yaw oscillations and auto landing nose wheel first. Apparently fixed now through FG software updates.

swh
19th Aug 2018, 03:18
We had similar on the A330 in a recent update, a paragraph was dropped out in the update, and was quickly reinserted by Airbus.