RAF Mildenhall Closure?

[GLIDER 90]

Evening All

With reading about RAF Mildenhall going to close at some point in the future, what will become of Mildenhall another deserted airfield like the rest of the other USAF bases that have closed ?

[NutLoose]

After they dig up everything to extract the gravel..... Unless there is a clause somewhere in the initial agreement from when it was built that it has to be removed and reverts to farmland or it is sold back to the original land owner.


Google Greenham Common and look at it now, the runways and taxiways were dug up and reclaimed with the gravel extracted, it was turned into a nature reserve, the cruise missile silos that still exist and were used as a film lot for one of the later Star Wars rebel bases.

[Martin the Martian]

And we have all this debate about runway capacity (or lack of) in the south east. Wouldn't Greenham Common have been an ideal location?

[Pontius Navigator]

A problem with a lot of the former US airfields is the remediation costs. Their electrical systems are usually 110v and many other systems are designed around US requirements. When Bentwaters was handed back to Defence Training Estate it was a poisoned chalice.

[GLIDER 90]

Greenham Common would have been an ideal base for a civil airport, where they could have built a large cargo hub like at East Midlands Airport. With the growing population of the UK it seems to be houses etc, but why spend money on an airfield improving the taxiways and ramp when it is down for closure at some point.

[diginagain]

................ but why spend money on an airfield improving the taxiways and ramp when it is down for closure at some point.
Investment in infrastructure has traditionally been an indicator of impending disposal.

[NutLoose]

Good selection of Greenham how it is now here

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mup26/26404568104/in/photostream/

[Duchess_Driver]

It may be old age, but do I not remember some talk of MoC moving out there? Might have been dreaming....

[Igundwane]

Keep an eye on the house prices.. They are going to tank, along with the economy in that area.

[Herc-u-lease]

Keep an eye on the house prices.. They are going to tank, along with the economy in that area.

Doubt it, house prices are booming in that area. People will gladly commute to Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds. As Lakenheath is staying open there will still be healthy demand for local businesses and services.

The A11 corridor, now it's all dual carriageway, is attracting a lot of regional investment and focus.

[andrewn]

Doubt it, house prices are booming in that area. People will gladly commute to Cambridge and Bury St Edmunds. As Lakenheath is staying open there will still be healthy demand for local businesses and services.

The A11 corridor, now it's all dual carriageway, is attracting a lot of regional investment and focus.

Absolutely, the future for Mildenhall (IF) it closes is likely to be thousands of new houses, to serve the booming Cambridge economy. The MoD is under massive pressure to release as much land as possible in order to feed our Governments perverse desire to concrete over as much of the UK as possible. Quite why the worlds 5th largest economy still has an insatiable appetite for "growth" is beyond me, but there you go.

Have a read about the Ox-MK-Cam corridor if you are in any doubt about the madness that our elected officials want to unleash on us.

[Heathrow Harry]

" in order to feed our Governments perverse desire to concrete over as much of the UK as possible. "

actually it's to try and build houses for people to live in where they're needed

[andrewn]

Fundamentally Harry there is no "Housing Crisis", it's more an affordability issue. The current house buillding cycle and planning system is rigged to ensure maximum ROI for the developers. If you think differently you are deluded, sorry.

In an Island nation as densely packed as ours only a dotard (or people being bribed) would sanction national housebuilding targets of 300k per annum, let alone a million new homes inbetween Oxford and Cambridge and related "expressway".

Amazes me that large swathes of the population actually swallow the utter twaddle that officialdom feed us, with little or no challenge.

[andrewn]

Keep an eye on the house prices.. They are going to tank, along with the economy in that area.

I see your location is Nairobi, so I'm guessing BBC World News is giving endlessly depressing updates on how the UK is heading for economic collapse and global isolation post-brexit?

The truth, especially in that part of the UK, is somewhat different. The regional assemblies, LEPs and house builders cant wait for the Americans to leave so they can get their greedy paws on the land.

Personally I still live in hope of a reversal on the Mildenhall closure decision.

[Heathrow Harry]

from the Beeb:-

UK National Ecosystem Assessment (http://uknea.unep-wcmc.org/) (NEA) .Five hundred experts analysed vast quantities of data and produced what they claim is the first coherent body of evidence about the state of Britain's natural environment.Having looked at all the information, they calculated that "6.8% of the UK's land area is now classified as urban" (a definition that includes rural development and roads, by the way).Report from the UK National Ecosystem Assessment - key findings [6.4MB] (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/28_06_12_uk_national_ecosystem.pdf)Most computers will open PDF documents automatically, but you may need Adobe Reader

Download the reader here (http://get.adobe.com/reader/)


The urban landscape accounts for 10.6% of England, 1.9% of Scotland, 3.6% of Northern Ireland and 4.1% of Wales.

Put another way, that means almost 93% of the UK is not urban. But even that isn't the end of the story because urban is not the same as built on. In urban England, for example, the researchers found that just over half the land (54%) in our towns and cities is greenspace - parks, allotments, sports pitches and so on.Furthermore, domestic gardens account for another 18% of urban land use; rivers, canals, lakes and reservoirs an additional 6.6%.

Their conclusion? In England, "78.6% of urban areas is designated as natural rather than built". Since urban only covers a tenth of the country, this means that the proportion of England's landscape which is built on is… 2.27%

[BigDotStu]

There was a study with various options, including Mildlenhall, Wyton and a couple of the other places. I am pretty sure Marshal had no desire to move - the city is after the land!

That's certainly their stated position, but rumour has it that it was a sop to the older generation of the family, and once they were gone, and the price was right, they would sell up and move (with Mildenhall a likely candidate).

[andrewn]

Oh dear, resorting to meaningless statistics - always a sure sign the argument is being lost :)

Have you tried "urbanising" Ben Nevis, or the Peaks, or mid Wales. Not really possible is it? So when you take out the large swathes that are practically uninhabitable you are left with what we have, which is a fairly small area to chuck 70M people, 20M cars and 300k additional houses per annum.

If you dont believe me, leave your ivory tower and take a drive on most major roads and motorways at any time of the day and I'll think you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, this is degenerating, but thanks again for the useless stats; I recall the beeb regurgitating this garbage a couple of years ago just prior to the Govt ripping up planning policy guidelines!

[andrewn]

That's certainly their stated position, but rumour has it that it was a sop to the older generation of the family, and once they were gone, and the price was right, they would sell up and move (with Mildenhall a likely candidate).

If I was in MCE position and I held all the ace cards I'd be holding out for as long as was necessary really....

[GLIDER 90]

I would like to see Mildenhall kept open as an airbase, from what I have read theirs problems with them moving to Germany with the noise level from the aircraft and reduced flying time, because the germans don't like flying at weekends.

[glad rag]

I would like to see Mildenhall kept open as an airbase, from what I have read theirs problems with them moving to Germany with the noise level from the aircraft and reduced flying time, because the germans don't like flying at weekends.

From experience it's the weekends that the deployment/ return activity can be at it's highest..

From what I have heard the Polish can't wait for the NATO money to flow...

[Non Emmett]

Two KC135s airborne this morning from Mildenhall to refuel a B-1B over southwest England. Would this be feasible from a German base on a Sunday morning ?

[bobward]

According to the RIAT show programme, the USAF plan to move their RC135's to Fairford. As Waddington seems to be unsuitable for Rivet Joint to use with full fuel, one suspects the RAF fleet will follow.Looking back to the 1980's part of the European tanker task force was based there so it hardly takes a genius to figure out that a couple of TDY tankers could join the aircraft there - there's plenty of ramp space.

Harking back to Greenham Common, this was originally mooted as the base for the TTF in the 80's. That was until the locals got uppity and started a 'keep it quiet/closed'
protest. Then HMG 'suddenly noticed' that a certain government facility just down the road, making things that go bang, was right under the flight path. This gave them an honourable out to move the nasty noisy jets to Fairford.

What goes around, comes around......

[bobward]

According to the RIAT show programme, the USAF plan to move their RC135's to Fairford. As Waddington seems to be unsuitable for Rivet Joint to use with full fuel, one suspects the RAF fleet will follow. That two year closure, and massive investment in rebuilding Waddingto's runway looks like money well spent. Looking back to the 1980's part of the European tanker task force was based there so it hardly takes a genius to figure out that a couple of TDY tankers could join the aircraft there. They've been doing USAF based rotations to Geilenkirchen for many year, so a precedent is already set, plus there's plenty of ramp space at Fairford.

Harking back to Greenham Common, this was originally mooted as the base for the TTF in the 80's. That was until the locals got uppity and started a 'keep it quiet/closed'
protest. Then HMG 'suddenly noticed' that a certain government facility just down the road, making things that go bang, was right under the flight path. This gave them an honourable out to move the nasty noisy jets to Fairford.

What goes around, comes around......

[pr00ne]

All this talk that Greenham Common would have made a good airport or a tanker base. Take a look at a map, there is a little place called Aldermaston Nuclear bomb factory off one end of the main runway, and a little place called Newbury off the other. It was never going to happen. Good for a few days a year as a major airshow venue and that was it.

[BEagle]

Such was the noise sensitivity at Greenham Common that my QFI's request for a training GCA approach was refused due to 'noise abatement restrictions'.

We were in a Chipmunk doing my PIFG course!

[Heathrow Harry]

All this talk that Greenham Common would have made a good airport or a tanker base. Take a look at a map, there is a little place called Aldermaston Nuclear bomb factory off one end of the main runway, and a little place called Newbury off the other. It was never going to happen. Good for a few days a year as a major airshow venue and that was it.

too true

what is worse is that the real bomb factory at Burghfield is also prety much on the approach. Aldermaston is the R&D facility... and bloody frightening it looks.....

[andrewn]

That's certainly their stated position, but rumour has it that it was a sop to the older generation of the family, and once they were gone, and the price was right, they would sell up and move (with Mildenhall a likely candidate).

Looks like the price is now right:

Marshalls to sell up - 12,000 new houses on way (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48269651)

Interestingly, no mention of Mildenhall in any of this now....

[Arclite01]

My money is now on Duxford if they don't go to Mildenhall............... Wyton is a non-starter and Cranfield is too far away

and the latest rumour from my neighbour who has friends at the base is that the close date for Mildenhall is now being quoted as 2025.................


Arc

[chevvron]

My money is now on Duxford if they don't go to Mildenhall............... Wyton is a non-starter and Cranfield is too far away

and the latest rumour from my neighbour who has friends at the base is that the close date for Mildenhall is now being quoted as 2025.................


Arc
I hardly think the runway at Duxford would be suitable unless you divert the M11 motorway to re-extend it.

[Planemike]

Alconbury or Oakington......??

[Valiantone]

Alconbury or Oakington......??

What about Alconbury or Oakington? Sure you could use both these airfields... except they are having housing built on/had housing built on them already

[andrewn]

What about Alconbury or Oakington? Sure you could use both these airfields... except they are having housing built on/had housing built on them already

Yep, the list of viable alternates is shockingly poor. Alconbury was hoovered up by Urban&Civic, at a knock down price, a few years ago. They are now cashing in handsomely on that wise investment - Alconbury Weald (https://www.urbanandcivic.com/projects/strategic-sites/alconbury-weald/site-details)

Oakington faces a similar fate, busy being buried under thousands of houses - Northstowe (https://www.northstowe.com/content/local-history)

Next?

[ex82watcher]

Watton going/gone the same way.

[typerated]

How about moving into a service airfield - paying HMG a bit of rent

Marham will be quiet - apart from in the sim!

Move in with the Arrows at Wittering?

Boscombe?

Lyneham - what is happening here these days.

Linton closing?

[andrewn]

How about moving into a service airfield - paying HMG a bit of rent

Marham will be quiet - apart from in the sim! probably a non-starter due to a mix of security concerns and location. Upto another 2,000 people trying to get in and out of Marham at peak times would cause chaos on local roads I expect.

Move in with the Arrows at Wittering? Nice long runway. Not a lot of hangarage. Good suggestion, must be a reason why it's not in the frame. Maybe the MoD aren't good sharers?

Boscombe? Earmarked for Boeing. Plus nowhere near Cambridge!

Lyneham - what is happening here these days. Not a lot I don't think. Expect the site to be put forward for housing just as soon as the LA think they can get away with it

Linton closing? Wrong location, short runway. Would assume it will be left to rot for a few years and then sold off cheap to housing developers

[Cambridge172]

Think they'd (Marshall) be mad to consider taking on the running of an old MOD base like Wyton or worse still Mildenhall from say 2025 - think Alconbury is out because they are already have housing plans in the wrong places? The overheads of running airfields like that would make running CBG look like a kids tea party. Why own a huge piece of airport infrastructure in the middle of nowhere which nobody else needs but you - and it's not going to be a land-bank for housing of any grand scale if all goes belly-up if it is in middle of nowhere. With 2022 looming and the Herc C130 contract presumably (?) coming to an end, how many huge sheds will they need in the future, certainly not as much space as they have now? They do work on big Boeings in the civil sector, but they don't really make money out of that stuff - that's not core business.

Far better to keep all the design and back-office and small shed activities, workshops etc. still at Cambridge, on what, by default, will remain in part an industrial estate a new business park, next to the 12,000 houses, then for the actual aircraft MX activities, be at someone else's operational airport - they can pay the bills to run the airport side of the equation! If they want to retain the bulk of the CBG engineers, go and buy the Diamond hangar at Stansted - plenty of space on one side for expansion, or just past the Ryanair shed. If they are prepared to lose say half the engineers who won't relocate (not likely to need as many as they have now anyway?), then move MRO (hangar-based) ops to Brize Norton. If that doesn't stack up politically, then last choice is Cranfield. The only ready-to-move-into hangar is the Diamond Hangar at Stansted. Wyton's are too small with no ramp elbow-room - they'll have to build brand new facilities wherever they went.

[GeeRam]

Yep, the list of viable alternates is shockingly poor. Alconbury was hoovered up by Urban&Civic, at a knock down price, a few years ago. They are now cashing in handsomely on that wise investment - Alconbury Weald (https://www.urbanandcivic.com/projects/strategic-sites/alconbury-weald/site-details)

Oakington faces a similar fate, busy being buried under thousands of houses - Northstowe (https://www.northstowe.com/content/local-history)

Next?

Planners have also just given the green light this week to building 6,500 homes on old RAF Waterbeach.

[Evalu8ter]

Of the 3, Cranfield is the only viable option. Duxford lacks the infrastructure (runway length, taxiway widths/PCN, ATC services, controlled airspace and Instrument Approach aids/TAPs), Wyton is already earmarked for development. Cambridge has long been the Marshall family's "nest egg" - just a matter of when the business need and potential land value / housing need conspired. As I understand it, as Marshalls is still very much a family business, the interest in Aviation waxes and wanes depending on who is in the boardroom - and it changes between generations. Cranfield is benefitting from significant investment - they are lengthening the runway, have the first "digital" tower in the UK and are expanding the capacity for other users through the Air Park initiative. Alconbury is, it seems, too far gone and Mildenhall appears to have some form of stay of execution. IMHO, the inclusion of both Duxford and Wyton are part of a smokescreen to buy time for Marshalls to get their PR strategy up and running before they move out of the Cambridge area.

[Davef68]

IMHO, the inclusion of both Duxford and Wyton are part of a smokescreen to buy time for Marshalls to get their PR strategy up and running before they move out of the Cambridge area.

Like one of those costly 'independent' Govt Reviews that surprisingly reaches the conclusion that aligns with the Govt's original intention. "We looked at staying in the Cambridge area but it didn't make economic sense"

[Fluffy Bunny]

Lyneham - what is happening here these days. Not a lot I don't think. Expect the site to be put forward for housing just as soon as the LA think they can get away with it


Lyneham's full of baby REME. The schools at Arborfield and Bordon closed to become housing estates and the REME school amalgamated at Lyneham. There were plans to move the relevant parts of Cosford and Sultan to Lyneham too. Half the airfield is covered in solar panels, the other half is covered with winching posts and tank traps.

[RAFEngO74to09]

RAF Mildenhall closure delayed until at least 2027 while the USAF reviews its plans..

https://www.forces.net/news/raf-mildenhall-closure-delayed-until-least-2027

Knowing what I do about RAF Fairford - in particular the infrastructure put in specifically to make it the only European FOL for a significant number of heavy bombers in the early 2000s (all in the public domain now) - and the significant number of B-21 now likely to be ordered (compared to the B-2) and the further modernization of the B-52H - and the new weapons coming out for each - I would not be surprised to see the closure of RAF Mildenhall cancelled and RAF Fairford remaining the FOL for bombers and the U-2..

[Whenurhappy]

too true

what is worse is that the real bomb factory at Burghfield is also prety much on the approach. Aldermaston is the R&D facility... and bloody frightening it looks.....
not quite true...

[Magic90]

I’ll have ten bob on Marshall’s going to Mildenhall in ten years. Duxford doesn’t have infrastructure and the M11 could be an issue, Wyton’s not big enough and the RAF/Army are there long term, Cranfield too far, they are all miserable and runway is shorter. And more importantly Mildenhall is closest to me. Better still, Lakenheath and we owners can all have a HAS each.

[Asturias56]

not quite true...


AWE Aldermaston is exactly 4 miles directly east of the old threshold at Greenham - Burghfield is 8 nm ENE ........ doesn't matter any way as it's the runway has all been ploughed up and the place converted to a nature reserve.

https://www.bbowt.org.uk/nature-reserves/greenham-and-crookham-commons

they've kept the old Tower (now a museum) and the south side is a Business Park. The old cruise missile bunkers are still there and are used for storage (and for shooting Star Wars etc). The trust that owns most of it uses the commercial income for good causes

https://greenhamtrust.com/

Greenham Common - Homepage (http://www.greenham-common.org.uk/ixbin/hixclient.exe?a=file&p=greenham&f=greenham.htm)

[Dino Carrara]

Some more info on the aircraft at the Aviation News website www.aviation-news.co.uk

[dead_pan]

RAF Mildenhall closure delayed until at least 2027 while the USAF reviews its plans..

https://www.forces.net/news/raf-mildenhall-closure-delayed-until-least-2027

Knowing what I do about RAF Fairford - in particular the infrastructure put in specifically to make it the only European FOL for a significant number of heavy bombers in the early 2000s (all in the public domain now) - and the significant number of B-21 now likely to be ordered (compared to the B-2) and the further modernization of the B-52H - and the new weapons coming out for each - I would not be surprised to see the closure of RAF Mildenhall cancelled and RAF Fairford remaining the FOL for bombers and the U-2..

There's not that much new infrastructure at Fairford TBH - a couple of hangars and that's about it. The yuge runway is the clincher.

It will be interesting to see what is planned to accommodate the RC135s or whatever is planned to move there in the next few years.

[Less Hair]

Planned move from Mildenhall units to Ramstein and Spangdahlem might be reevaluated as well.

[RAFEngO74to09]

There's not that much new infrastructure at Fairford TBH

Incorrect - I guess you didn't read this !
"Knowing what I do about RAF Fairford - in particular the infrastructure put in specifically to make it the only European FOL for a significant number of heavy bombers in the early 2000s"

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/beverstine/status/1288464088402735104?s=21

[air pig]

Given the President has announced the German drawdown and re-deployment of troops to Italy and the USA yesterday. I'm surprised some of the troops are not going to Poland.

[MFC_Fly]

RAF Mildenhall: Reprieve for US air base destined to closehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-53606937

[RAFEngO74to09]

Now confirmed that USAF RC-135 Rivet Joint Det will remain at RAF Mildenhall and not relocate to RAF Fairford.

(6) Home / Twitter

[bobward]

Maybe the RAF Rivet Joints will move to Mildenhall from Waddington. That would add a bit of room for the Red Arrows n'est pas?

[Boeing Jet]

Maybe that would be a good idea as the runway is longer!!

[Willard Whyte]

Maybe the RAF Rivet Joints will move to Mildenhall from Waddington. That would add a bit of room for the Red Arrows n'est pas?

Problem is I think a significant number of aircrew on 51 wouldn't make the move.

[ExAscoteer2]

Maybe that would be a good idea as the runway is longer!!

From the BINA:

Mildenhall RW 11/29 TORA/LDA 9240ft

Waddington R/W 02/20 TORA/LDA 9000ft

Not really a significant difference.

[chopper2004]

Maybe the RAF Rivet Joints will move to Mildenhall from Waddington. That would add a bit of room for the Red Arrows n'est pas?

There was talk of that ....

cheers