EK resignations on the up again...

[felixthecat]

I'm hearing rumours that since the wonderful pay review that resignations have shot up. That helped along by GCAA releasing letters so that people have been able to provide then to requesting airlines.

[RK Blue sky]

Does the increase in pilots leaving EK surprise anyone? Who is going to stay at this dump with so many better options available? It’s not like we can’t more money and work less hours in a civilized country.

[Voodoo 3]

Fear not! Apparently everything will be back to normal by the Autumn (1.40 onwards)

https://youtu.be/yC9W-MkodxU

[Joker11]

Can't wait to add mine. Counting the days....

[Murrenfan]

I'm hearing rumours that since the wonderful pay review that resignations have shot up. That helped along by GCAA releasing letters so that people have been able to provide then to requesting airlines.
I can see we have now the exact same number of pilots we had back in sep 2016. Not sure how many airframes were added or returned in this period.

Mfan.

[Xulu]

They were added to the DWC aircraft museum.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

Only 1x380 and 2x 777 in storage at DWC as of yesterday.

SyB :zzz:

[Xulu]

Only 1x380 and 2x 777 in storage at DWC as of yesterday.

SyB :zzz:

And what will that look like after the Summer peak? I'm anticipating record numbers parked in November.

[Adam Barfy]

Maybe we’ll pick up some pilots from Turkish.

They get paid in Lira.......

[WwP]

Maybe we’ll pick up some pilots from Turkish.

They get paid in Lira.......


Do you recommend ek for turkish people? Unfortunately lira is in a big big trouble nowadays.

[ExDubai]

Do you recommend ek for turkish people? Unfortunately lira is in a big big trouble nowadays.

For sure, the money is much better @EK. I'd suggest you take some time and read the forum. There is a reason why EK is short on pilots.

[Cralis]

Out of interest, it seems like a lot of people (flight deck crew) don't like EK, and the way they look after crew. Low pay etc. Would this have ANY adverse affect on safety? I ask as an aviation enthusiast, but also, someone who will be travelling on EK in December/January.

[felixthecat]

Everyone does their best, but the experience levels have and continue to drop. Very experienced people leaving being replaced with very inexperienced. Draw from that what you wish.

[Schnowzer]

Out of interest, it seems like a lot of people (flight deck crew) don't like EK, and the way they look after crew. Low pay etc. Would this have ANY adverse affect on safety? I ask as an aviation enthusiast, but also, someone who will be travelling on EK in December/January.

Wouldnt worry, it’s not just EK, it’s the industry’s problem. EK still try to get good folks and train them well, the FOs lack experience when they start but most will have been on the jet for a few years and passed the training. But why would a business let experience go just to save a few bucks. Welcome to globalization, you can always get someone to do it worse for less😉

[RK Blue sky]

I think it’s reasonable to expect a fall in the number of new joiners following the removal of the accommodation allowance. It’s a deal breaker for many.

But the low pay and crazy work hours aren’t a Deal Breaker? Who are we attracting?

[fatbus]

For every 1 that resigns there is another that " retires" and or medical . Great spinning of stats! Just look at the totals at year end .

[PW151]

Hey Everyone - So, I'm seeing lots of comments suggesting there are better places than EK. Which airline would you suggest a Canadian airline pilot go to overseas in order to make good money, while living an acceptable lifestyle?

[whatsyourbeef]

I think it’s reasonable to expect a fall in the number of new joiners following the removal of the accommodation allowance. It’s a deal breaker for many.

Has this particular change to the package occurred before?

In your opinion is there any chance that once company accommodation fills up again they'll reconsider offering the allowance?

[my salami]

Has this particular change to the package occurred before?

In your opinion is there any chance that once company accommodation fills up again they'll reconsider offering the allowance?

Experience have shown that whatever was lost, it was lost forever...

MS

[flyster]

Well in terms of the company allowance: it changes from time to time. They have many empty houses but afaik not many apartments - that’s the rumor.

Salary and expected upgrade time are not that bad here if you are a FO. Dubai is at all not a ****ty place - especially if you make friends quickly initially and then start to select your new core friends. Most of the times it’s not the place it is yourself,your believes kind of thinking which decrease your happiness.

More people are leaving than joining. Some very old and senior Cpt said that they might adjust salary again. Since this has happened in the past it must of course not necessarily happen in future again..

[Rainman7]

Very little job satisfaction, and zero work/life balance, is what Ek comes down too. Ek is trying to be a first world airline with third world mentality/management. If work is all you want to do, then its the place for you. Rosters are non existent, pay & conditions are below standard compared to first world/top airlines, toxic hostile work enviornment, factory housing, treated with very little respect etc. looking forward to leaving as well, its been an eye opener for sure.

[whatsyourbeef]

Very little job satisfaction, and zero work/life balance, is what Ek comes down too. Ek is trying to be a first world airline with third world mentality/management. If work is all you want to do, then its the place for you. Rosters are non existent, pay & conditions are below standard compared to first world/top airlines, toxic hostile work enviornment, factory housing, treated with very little respect etc. looking forward to leaving as well, its been an eye opener for sure.

How long have you been there?

[bringbackthe80s]

It’s the same everywhere anyway. They need loads of people but won’t decrease the super long duties or increase the pay, what are you going to do..this is tge reality of the profession. Thruth is, if you’re young open to new experiences and looking for a good time I doubt doing 4 legs 12/13 hrs days is the way to go. But what do I know

[TwinJock]

Everyone does their best, but the experience levels have and continue to drop. Very experienced people leaving being replaced with very inexperienced. Draw from that what you wish.

True...........

[Adam Barfy]

Hey Everyone - So, I'm seeing lots of comments suggesting there are better places than EK. Which airline would you suggest a Canadian airline pilot go to overseas in order to make good money, while living an acceptable lifestyle?


Well I guess Saudia is off the table.

Stay where you are. Unless you suffer from da big shiny shiny

[BigGeordie]

Yorkshire Pudding, probably the most succint and accurate summary of life in Dubai as an Emirates Pilot I have ever seen.

[Stjuk]

Pretty much sums up my stay here

[springbok449]

YP,

That’s one of the best and most accurate post I have read in a long long time...
it makes me laugh when some people say that the weather is only bad in July and August but from September it’s lovely, in my experience from May to the end of October it’s pretty much unbearable!

[CaptainProp]

My last 777 roster consisted: 20 sectors (7 turn arounds) plus sim and ground duty, 9 finishes after midnight, 7 finishes after 6am, 9 days off (2 are single days off. such as 1 day off in 11 days of duty, some are company days off which could be removed).]

.....and yet there are people on this forum reading everything that's posted here and still deciding to join. That sort of roster will kill you, literally.

CP

[SOPS]

]

.....and yet there are people on this forum reading everything that's posted here and still deciding to join. That sort of roster will kill you, literally.

CP
At the risk of getting "told off", I agree with you CP, and people say.."I will just stay another XX years" and it I will leave. Are they sure they will still be alive in XX number of years?

[pilotguy1222]

My last 777 roster consisted: 20 sectors (7 turn arounds) plus sim and ground duty, 9 finishes after midnight, 7 finishes after 6am, 9 days off (2 are single days off. .

This is real people, and save for the lack of turn arounds, the Whale roster is no picnic either. Think looooong and hard, and stop fooling yourself because that is not what “she said.”

[Craggenmore]

Last nightstop in LHR at the local Sainsbury the Nescafe Azera Americano Barista Style Instant Coffee Tin at 100g was £3.00

Today in Dubai at Park n Shop £9.50

[felixthecat]

AimHigh no disrespect but no night flying and no jet lag....... that says it all really. I wish I could sleep in the spare room as opposed to controlled rest for '20 mins'. Till you have worked the long haul to this level and flown night after night and jet lagged up to the eyeballs you really have no idea. I have flown both sides of the fence and there is no comparison. The vast majority of the complaints are not money based they are life style and exhaustion based.

£2k a year service charge as we live in a flat.....try guys here paying £5500 a year for apartment service charges.

Yeah there are certain high costs in Dubai compared to U.K./London. Yeah we live in London so it is expensive, our local is £6 a pint.... try £12-£15 a pint

Went to a nice restaurant the other day and we spent nearly £200 with only half a bottle of wine and 2 glasses of champagne. .... try over £100 a head for a fairly average meal and a glass of wine in a decent restaurant. Add champagne ...hahaha

[BANANASBANANAS]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/468x296/img_1224_bd303a68bd9ab8f7396b60f2fbd928c038a7adba.jpg
An extreme example maybe but that is over $100,000 for a night out - and this bill was a few years ago before VAT. Probably add another 50% for inflation now too.

[Killer Loop]

Poor taste.

Poor example.

Extreme vulgarity.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Perhaps I should have added.

Not my bill. It was doing the rounds on social media a while ago.

But it does show how easy it is to spend/waste money here.

[Killer Loop]

Perhaps I should have added.

Not my bill. It was doing the rounds on social media a while ago.

But it does show how easy it is to spend/waste money here.

Easy to waste money anywhere in the world on these items.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Easy to waste money anywhere in the world on these items.




Agreed. Unfortunately, the expensive prices apply to most everyday items too.

It's not a competition and we do see high prices around the world but Dubai does seem to kick it to the next level in my opinion - on all goods, luxury to basic needs. There is no escape from the high cost of living here unless you are prepared to live frugally - which defeats one of the purposes of becoming an expat for most people.

Potential new joiners really need to factor these costs in and not simply convert Dubai salary to their current currency and think they will become rich quickly.

[Killer Loop]

Agreed. Unfortunately, the expensive prices apply to most everyday items too.

It's not a competition and we do see high prices around the world but Dubai does seem to kick it to the next level in my opinion - on all goods, luxury to basic needs. There is no escape from the high cost of living here unless you are prepared to live frugally - which defeats one of the purposes of becoming an expat for most people.

Potential new joiners really need to factor these costs in and not simply convert Dubai salary to their current currency and think they will become rich quickly.

Agreed. Costs should be factored in. I’m just not sure your original argument was apt.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1400x839/5f8811f0_92c3_4957_95bf_8e1e2c74f773_bc3287353a2d3d78ad7fbf7 846a26b8020d06653.jpeg

[Jack D]

Perhaps I should have added.

Not my bill. It was doing the rounds on social media a while ago.

But it does show how easy it is to spend/waste money here.

Thats a “ local” bill ..or possibly one of the Russkie
party animals whose numbers seem to be in decline these days .. Tres Vulgare and fits the total lack of class

[BANANASBANANAS]

Thats a “ local” bill ..or possibly one of the Russkie
party animals whose numbers seem to be in decline these days .. Tres Vulgare and fits the total lack of class

No argument there.

But, it is all part and parcel of life in Dubai - whether you partake in it or just observe it and that amount of disposable income in circulation is a major driver of inflation for all goods. Hence the £15+ for a beer at an average bar or £10 for 100g of coffee as mentioned in a previous post.

[Joker11]

I was in Germany recently and went grocery shopping there. For what I could buy there, it is nothing compared to Dubai. Go shopping for 5 to 10 items and you definitely need to fork out between 70 to 80 AED. Milk alone sets you back between 5 to 10 AED. Life here is expensive and I think most of us don't want to live like beggers. It is just not worth staying here as all money we make gets sucked out of your pocket before you had time to check you bank balance.

[felixthecat]

EK rosters? Well I have heard both sides of the coin. A colleague went there 2 years ago and he says it’s ok, not easy but with a bit of personal management you can survive.

All your arguments are 'my friend this my friend that', where as you have many here who have been in the UAE a long time and are telling you straight from the horses mouth. The point is not to just survive, if you don't believe us then please feel free and apply, the more the merrier and the less hours the rest of us have to do.

[mikeobflya]

Does Emirates provide a public seniority list of pilots to its workforce? Can you as a pilot actually see how many pilots there are and where you stand on the seniority list?

Thanks.

[Adam Barfy]

Well yes colleagues and friends. I know these people on a personal level it’s natural I would trust them more.
I have applied going through the process at the moment.

I’m afraid youre suffering from shiny jet syndrome. Come on over. Bring the family. We all know youre going to anyway, regardless of what we say.

EK is abit like a ladyboy. Attractive from afar, but those in the know keep telling you its a bloke.
Still, it looks........

But it is a bloke. And it’s not so much fun when you find out you married it for 5 years.

I’ll get me coat.

[Beedo]

Yes I think the resignation rate is a bit high for the last 6 months but recruiting rate also is acceptable, but the problem is the level of experience is going down as of the turbo prop guys joining right now, but i think its a good chance for thise guys to prove that they are good enough to be on the wide body seat.

I wish it gets better because it will help every one and will help the company , just need to be a bit positive and optimistic about it, the company had an awesome time before so its normal to have some difficulties between time and time as the hole industry around the world is running short of pilot.

Pilots in the company sharing there experiences and ideas to make work better but the problem no one would here or even give it a try. Thats true that we are very rare to fly less that 85 hours per month and mixing night and day and ULR and short TA’s. The only thing that i would really like to give the company a heads up is look up for your folks health.

Unfortubately now the company have stopped the live leave until further notice, and the 42 days leave is not granted too. I would still have the hope that till the end of this year it will get better and we will go back for the laxuries rosters of 60-70 hours flying

[fatbus]

Adam perfect analogy!

[felixthecat]

Does Emirates provide a public seniority list of pilots to its workforce? Can you as a pilot actually see how many pilots there are and where you stand on the seniority list?

Thanks.
Nope, that was removed years ago. The seniority list we see is 'adjusted' into a format that doesn't allow this and it is not possible to download and convert it.

[uplock]

Felix very easy to download and convert
A link (https://www.manjemedia.com/infographic-7-ways-copy-content-restricted-website/) to get you going or just use print function in chrome print to pdf then copy into excel.
Takes seconds.
But then why bother seniority here is not even worth the paper its printed on.

[SOPS]

Does not matter what we say.. AH123 will never believe it. In about 2 years he might.. but not now ...

[checkerboard6]

I was in Germany recently and went grocery shopping there. For what I could buy there, it is nothing compared to Dubai. Go shopping for 5 to 10 items and you definitely need to fork out between 70 to 80 AED. Milk alone sets you back between 5 to 10 AED. Life here is expensive and I think most of us don't want to live like beggers. It is just not worth staying here as all money we make gets sucked out of your pocket before you had time to check you bank balance.

Really? I don't know what you buying boet but life is expensive most decent places in the world these days. I do some shopping on trips and some here, purchase alot of locally grown produce is in the CO-OP these days and its not expensive.

[Tommy Gavin]

I have lived in the UAE for two years (not EK) but everything except the money and the winter weather is better EVERYWHERE in Europe (including even the UK😏).

The fact that you live in a free country where you have certain civil Rights is worth ten times more then a huge stack of dirhams and a fast left seat on a WB. DXB is nice on a layover or perhaps on a commuting contract but to live there fulltime when everyone in Europe is hiring is just plain stupid.

[Joker11]

Really? I don't know what you buying boet but life is expensive most decent places in the world these days. I do some shopping on trips and some here, purchase alot of locally grown produce is in the CO-OP these days and its not expensive.

CO-OP is good. Local veggies are both cheap and good. Spinneys has also a good option for cheap vegetables. But come on. Life ain't cheap here and it is slightly cheaper in other countries. Not in ZA as I suspect you are a Saffa by the term "Boet". See above comment. I think it sums it up nicely.

[GoreTex]

EK resignations are up again, everybody else leaves but not the guys who post for 10+ years that they are leaving

[SOPS]

Ok I try again.

Yorshire, SOPS, why don’t you leave?

For us we want away from Europe. If we stay it would have to be London. Middle East as my wife spent 10 years growing up there, she likes it and would go back, or Far East HK, Singapore.
Problems with HK, Singapore we don’t have friends there, UAE we have friends and family.
Thats why we want to live there, so I have to choose either EK or the blue one.
I did!!!! You must be really new here!!

[Adam Barfy]

I did!!!! You must be really new here!!

No. He,s been posting on EK and other ME3 & Far East forums since he got his first job on turboprops at FlyBe 2 years ago.

Says it all if he's now accepted by EK recruitment. 2 years turboprop experience is all you need.

If he wants to live over here, that's a personal choice for him and his family, but I am extremely concerned about the lack of experience in new joiners at Emirates these days.

[eternity]

AimingHigh123,

Although some of the guys in here have a tendancy to slightly over exaggerate, their comments are still very close to reality....about 95% accurate.

I'm not sure why you keep positing on here, defending your decision to come to EK. You have obviously made your mind up. You dont need to defend your decision to a bunch of strangers on this forum.

Good luck with your application and recruitment process.
But if we fly together sometime in the future, dont complain.....because you have now been given enough information about the realities here.

Eternity.

[Craggenmore]

Last nightstop in LHR at the local Sainsbury the Nescafe Azera Americano Barista Style Instant Coffee Tin at 100g was £3.00

Today in Dubai at Park n Shop £9.50

Update...........Today in Spinneys this coffee was priced at £12.80

[Joker11]

Every colleague I speak to at EK tells me the same thing and also often the reason why they can't leave. So yes what you read here is pretty accurate to real situation out there.

[LHR Rain]

Every colleague I speak to at EK tells me the same thing and also often the reason why they can't leave. So yes what you read here is pretty accurate to real situation out there.

No one is Stuck here! Pilots choose to stay here and put up with all that EK offers both good and very bad.
One might say I'm Stuck here but my kids are almost done with school and with greener pastures out there I will probably leave as I would have nearly 20 yrs.
It was good earlier on but `I don't think anyone can say EK is a good airline now, not in anyway. Combine with who we are hiring and our fatigue levels we are an accident just waiting to happen and I don't want any part of this airline.
£20,000 a month is not even worth it anymore.

[flyster]

Agreed. Unfortunately, the expensive prices apply to most everyday items too.

It's not a competition and we do see high prices around the world but Dubai does seem to kick it to the next level in my opinion - on all goods, luxury to basic needs. There is no escape from the high cost of living here unless you are prepared to live frugally - which defeats one of the purposes of becoming an expat for most people.

Potential new joiners really need to factor these costs in and not simply convert Dubai salary to their current currency and think they will become rich quickly.


It all depends where you live and to which supermarkets you go. Sometimes one item got a crazy price at Spinneys Downtown but at the next supermarket f.e. it’s less. If you order your food online bis InstaShop f.e. you ll get most of the times better prices than if you go by yourself, but it depends on the area you live and which supermarket you can trust to deliver good things.

My living costs are higher than before yes. Are they so much higher: no. Just Food and daily needed goods we spend round about 30% more than before a month. But that’s bearable.

If you go out: there are cheap restaurants with good food, there are expensive maybe more stylish places in s nice environment with good food. So it depends on your choice. But yes you can waste money easily .

The party bill which was posted above is no fake and that’s what you pay for in some clubs here in the VIP section where girls come easy...

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Can anyone tell me what, if any, death in service benefits EK gives it pilots?

thanks

[correamd11]

If you die you get two days off.
Three if next duty is an LRV.

[fliion]

Can anyone tell me what, if any, death in service benefits EK gives it pilots?

thanks

The Death In Service benefit - is 48 mos basic salary.

the loss of license Co. insurance is;

Basic salary
Yrs old:
Up to 62 > 36 mos
62- 63 > 24 mos
63- 64. >12 mos
64+ nil

[donpizmeov]

The day off policy when you die is a great improvement. You use to be marked absent and have your pay reduced at the daily rate. See not everything is bad here.
You will of course still get the warning letter from fleet . But that is to be expected.

[my salami]

The day off policy when you die is a great improvement. You use to be marked absent and have your pay reduced at the daily rate. See not everything is bad here.
You will of course still get the warning letter from fleet . But that is to be expected.

True but if you can provide fleet with your original stamped copy of your death certificate, they wave the warning letter...

MS

[donpizmeov]

I forgot about that MS . Do they make the rest of your death month roster Can use in that case?

[Dropp the Pilot]

I know of one case at least where the pilot died on the 6th day of the month but the family was asked if his corpse could be used for the remainder of the month as an augmenting pilot. Adel had heard from Tim that "those lazy pilots don't do anything anyway". A culture with a strong bent towards literalism will have these kind of consequences from time to time.

[donpizmeov]

Is he the same one they roll out every now and then as contract TRE on the 777 Drop? Those airline meals really do help with preservation . He was up for a SVP job in Fleet I believe, but some fella from a Euro loco said he would do it for less money.

[nothingsurprisesme]

Very little job satisfaction, and zero work/life balance, is what Ek comes down too. Ek is trying to be a first world airline with third world mentality/management. If work is all you want to do, then its the place for you. Rosters are non existent, pay & conditions are below standard compared to first world/top airlines, toxic hostile work enviornment, factory housing, treated with very little respect etc. looking forward to leaving as well, its been an eye opener for sure.

i agree 100%. We’re only here to serve the company. They see us as nothing better than people to serve their purpose for a limited time. After that we must leave.

On principle there’s nothing wrong with that. However, if you’re looking for a little respect, loyalty or even a jot of assistance/support/security/help in any capacity, then forget it.

Come here if you’re desperate. It used to be the airline of choice; now it’s the airline of desperation.

[Freehills]

I’m afraid youre suffering from shiny jet syndrome. Come on over. Bring the family. We all know youre going to anyway, regardless of what we say.

EK is abit like a ladyboy. Attractive from afar, but those in the know keep telling you its a bloke.
Still, it looks........

But it is a bloke. And it’s not so much fun when you find out you married it for 5 years.

I’ll get me coat.

Nothing wrong with a bit of ladyboy action now and again though!

[CaptainChipotle]

....typed from the comfort of your own home in your home country, living in freedom?

Plenty of of reasons why guys can’t “just leave”. 5 year training bonds, plus another 2 years if you stick around for that. Any outstanding personal debt is also a big trap unless you do a runner, kids in school mid-term, not being able to return to your home country mid-tax year or else face a big tax bill, and probably the easiest bit in the current market - finding a job back home.

As as you can see it’s not a matter of if, but when. Something you will hopefully appreciate with a few years under your belt in the sandpit as an expat.



Yep, when they get their fangs deep into you, its tougher to leave and easier to be abused.

[LivingINtheDream]

....typed from the comfort of your own home in your home country, living in freedom?

Plenty of of reasons why guys can’t “just leave”. 5 year training bonds, plus another 2 years if you stick around for that. Any outstanding personal debt is also a big trap unless you do a runner, kids in school mid-term, not being able to return to your home country mid-tax year or else face a big tax bill, and probably the easiest bit in the current market - finding a job back home.

As as you can see it’s not a matter of if, but when. Something you will hopefully appreciate with a few years under your belt in the sandpit as an expat.




After 3 years the end of service benefit is equal to the oustanding bond. Lose nothing gain you sanity back.

[SOPS]

Good evening. Just as a perspective from my new employer.. those that know me now know I drive trains for a living:

Today I started 3 weeks leave.. the dates I asked for were granted without question.. I have another 2 weeks of in March .. again granted at the times I requested .. and as we get 7 weeks leave a year .. I still have two weeks up my sleeve... I don’t earn the money I used to... but I love my job and have so much time off..

[Joker11]

Good evening. Just as a perspective from my new employer.. those that know me now know I drive trains for a living:

Today I started 3 weeks leave.. the dates I asked for were granted without question.. I have another 2 weeks of in March .. again granted at the times I requested .. and as we get 7 weeks leave a year .. I still have two weeks up my sleeve... I don’t earn the money I used to... but I love my job and have so much time off..

Enjoy. You will see your quality of life improve and bonus if you even enjoy your job. It is a win-win.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Whats the word on the proposed 3 year secondment of easyJet pilots to EK? Not much in the way of detail available here but none of it makes any sense for easyjet at all?

[Emma Royds]

None of it makes sense to us at EK. A three year secondment when a five year bond is being peddled to everyone that joins?

Unless EK management expect those that join to stay and even that is a tough call, since I am led to believe that easyJet will 'protect' their place at their existing easyJet base, so that they can simply 'slot' in back to the orange operation.

The more appealing it is made to join EK, it in turn is made more appealing to jump back to easyJet after their soiree in the Gulf.

5/4 at easyJet versus 11 days between two days off (on the 777). It's a no brainer as far as I am concerned! Whilst it is unlikely most from easyJet would joining the 777, their rosters will still not be as bad as your average 380 roster. If any of my 380 colleagues wish to dispute that, then how many have had 3 blocks of 4 days off in a row in August 18? Some will but not many I suspect?

[Dropp the Pilot]

Just as a perspective from my new employer, I have 52 weeks a year off, all at the dates I requested. Unfortunately I can't get any more days off than that but c'est la vie once you leave EK. I do love my job, however.

Pointless post? Yes, but there are others.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

Yeah it’s not making much sense at the Orange end either. It’s for the 380 only I understand, also secondment maybe the wrong description as one of the very few details Easyjet has released so far is that you would have to resign from Easyjet and be issued with a new contract that starts in exactly 3 years. This one detail seems to be the major blocker to most orange guys as going to the desert placing all trust on an Easyjet promise that is dated 3 years in the future is a leap of faith too far.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

PS Ryanair have 5/4, Easyjet is 5354 or FRV if your either nuts or an SO or FO. SFO and Captain has the fixed pattern. In the U.K. anyway.

[Dirigible]

Aviation Daily quoting STC

The temporary pilot shortage was “internally driven” and is largely overcome, he said. “We tried to be oversmart about what we needed when.” Part of the issue is transitioning pilots from the Airbus A330 (http://awin.aviationweek.com/ProgramProfileDetails.aspx?pgId=629&pgName=Airbus+A330) and A340 (http://awin.aviationweek.com/ProgramProfileDetails.aspx?pgId=1157&pgName=Airbus+A340) fleets that have been retired. Clark denied that a larger than usual number of pilots have left Emirates of late. “People are not leaving,” he said. Emirates has seen some relief as Abu Dhabi-based rival Etihad Airways (http://awin.aviationweek.com/OrganizationProfiles.aspx?orgId=129525) has retrenched and some pilots moved to Emirates.

[The Old Swedish]

as of the turbo prop guys joining right now, but i think its a good chance for thise guys to prove that they are good enough to be on the wide body seat.


OMG...........................

[gtaflyer]

your not supposed to mention the unmentionable !! On these forums...or is it open forum!

[flyster]

Yeah it’s not making much sense at the Orange end either. It’s for the 380 only I understand, also secondment maybe the wrong description as one of the very few details Easyjet has released so far is that you would have to resign from Easyjet and be issued with a new contract that starts in exactly 3 years. This one detail seems to be the major blocker to most orange guys as going to the desert placing all trust on an Easyjet promise that is dated 3 years in the future is a leap of faith too far.



And then one fails Emirates training and is without a permanent job for the next 2-3 years.. haha. Never ever accept such a contract! Only with retun options! The agreed opinion between my friends, me and many other colleagues is: if you are one day unlucky with your performance, unlucky with the trainers and management decision: anyone can fail here! I just heard about one guy who had a perfect training record until he failed basetraining on the A380. Fired. Thats Emirates! Between what they say "to create a positive training environment" and what they really do is at least in many trainee's heads a certain amount of "cognitive dissonance".

[bringbackthe80s]

Just for balance, I know many people at EK and NO ONE was ever failed or terminated in the 8 years they have been there. Quite the opposite, all of them are captains now.

[flyster]

Please ask your friends what they think about the training. To pass a tranining or to join a fearless training environment where you can walk out with real confidence is a big difference. Especially when you had experienced this in your previous companies. Maybe EK is not the worst but maybe they got stuck in an old fashioned way and are behind the industry standard nowadays.

I do not say they fire a lot and usually if the do there were reasons but it's not so uncommon as one would think. There is a certain amount of people who fail their initial training. We are talking about experienced pilots who had been in the job for many years and passed the assessment.

[SOPS]

Aviation Daily quoting STC

The temporary pilot shortage was “internally driven” and is largely overcome, he said. “We tried to be oversmart about what we needed when.” Part of the issue is transitioning pilots from the Airbus A330 (http://awin.aviationweek.com/ProgramProfileDetails.aspx?pgId=629&pgName=Airbus+A330) and A340 (http://awin.aviationweek.com/ProgramProfileDetails.aspx?pgId=1157&pgName=Airbus+A340) fleets that have been retired. Clark denied that a larger than usual number of pilots have left Emirates of late. “People are not leaving,” he said. Emirates has seen some relief as Abu Dhabi-based rival Etihad Airways (http://awin.aviationweek.com/OrganizationProfiles.aspx?orgId=129525) has retrenched and some pilots moved to Emirates.


Well if STC says it, it must be true!!!

[paule737]

Just for balance, I know many people at EK and NO ONE was ever failed or terminated in the 8 years they have been there. Quite the opposite, all of them are captains now.

I now at least one colleague personally (Captain), who failed his Sim recently, was offered a position back into the right seat.

Strictly speaking - NOT fired - but is this option any better?!

He left eventually....

BTW... He was here for more than 8 years...

[bringbackthe80s]

This happens in any company

[my salami]

This happens in any company

I'd suggest you having a chat with our colleagues from AF,LH,KL,BA...

MS

[Fuel-Off]

Happened with my last company in Oz. Could think of two captains that were demoted to FOs. Failed a sim, but past history of those particular individuals showed consistent fails or passes by the skins of their teeth.

With union protection and all...

Fuel-Off :ok:

[the_stranger]

I'd suggest you having a chat with our colleagues from AF,LH,KL,BA...

MS

I can name at least 3 colleagues who have left KL due to their performance in both the sim as in the cockpit. And these are those who I personally met, there are more.

It does happen in every airline.

[paule737]

This happens in any company

Of course it happens every now and then in other companies as well.

But you are giving the impression that this doesn’t happen within EK and as we all know, this is not true, as simple as that.

Looks like a „slightly“ distorted perception to me.

[ClassCbird]

I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.

[flyster]

That is what I am thinking having a Master degree in psychology. They just put a coat of “moderness” on the old structures. But in the end nothing has changed! If there is imminent pressure on individuals to perform it is contra productive to the outcome. Pressure increases performance only to a certain degree depending a bit as well on the so called personal traits. One can be very smart and has got fantastic abilities but within the “wrong” environment such a person cannot “deliver” or grow. The goal of training should be - if this person fits into the company selectional pattern (what they obviously did!) - that this person is trainable with the right methods, trainers and training program. That’s a growth structure which establish growth mindsets! In my personal opinion and from a professional perspective as well punishing somebody by degrading or terminating is the worst thing you can do as company. Imagine .. somebody got a bad phase and you help this individual with mercy, kindness, by leading the individual to overcome the problem. Tha is the difference between being a boss or a real leader.. what would it be like ? This person would be in most cases be more than happy, dedicates and loyal to the company. But maybe the company is just looking for mercenaries. Or maybe some Aussies who think being a Cpt at EK is a big thing .. sorry Aussies for that ! ;) u know which guys I am talking about !
Sorry for mistakes .. just typing on my phone.

[CaptainProp]

I am sure that there are bad eggs in every airline, however, here, one can have an excellent record in every regard for years and then one day, a single, less-than-great performance in a simulator can be very damaging to career progression. There does appear to be a sweeping trend at the present time of written warnings, demotions and sackings that wouldn't carry weight in the civilised world. It is very much testing now, training later. There are a multitude of scandalous disciplinaries that are irrelevant to performance and attitude also. This company are not taking their share of responsibility or accountability whatsoever. To be clear, i am not criticising trainers in this post. I am stating that the management attitude and company responses are not conducive to a safe or progressive airline.

Shiny-jet-syndrome people still flocking to go to EK, pay attention. Toxic.

CP

[Flyboy_SG]

Does the increase in pilots leaving EK surprise anyone? Who is going to stay at this dump with so many better options available? It’s not like we can’t more money and work less hours in a civilized country.


what are are those options ?

[RK Blue sky]

[QUOTE=Flyboy_SG;10269222]


what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.
China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.

[Aso]

Ethiopian and Turkey mmm Turkey? Really? With a salary that went down about 25% last month on the Lira exchange? ;)

[RK Blue sky]

mmm Turkey? Really? With a salary that went down about 25% last month on the Lira exchange? ;)

You wanted options I gave you options. Now you’re being obstinate.
With things falling apart here both with the airline and the city you’re going to stay? There are options

[desert witch]

This last ULR we were 4 crew, plus 4 crew already there, we had a chat with. This is the final count out of 8 people:
One captain quitting altogether before 60.
Another captain going home to do local flying, resigns this week.
One FO about to upgrade, going to Europe instead.
Another FO did not pass the upgrade and is finding his way out.

So about 50% bye bye ratio in this particular trip.
Coincidence?
This may get interesting in the coming months.

[RK Blue sky]

Come on blue sky. Turkey? REALLY?


At this point Rwanda Air is probably better than EK. No other employer is this vindictive to its pilots for the amount of money we have at the end of the month.
Without knowing definitely I would lay money on the line that Turkish doesn’t have the resignation rate that Emirates has. That says something but it’s probably more of a reflection on us.

[fliion]

[QUOTE=Flyboy_SG;10269222]


what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.
China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.


“The State Dept are banding them out like candy....”

Now that’s funny

[clear to land]

RK: A Captain in under 3 years AND 300k. I was unaware that the US Legacy Carriers were offering <3yrs command on a wide body to new hires (an MD Captain does not make 300k). Then again so were my friends who are F/O now at Delta and United. I doubt any Regional in the US pays any pilot anywhere near that amount. As for Green Cards handed out like candy-can you please share what you are on as I am sure everyone could do with being happier. Turkish: now you are really living in LaLa Land considering the currency and political situation. KAL: ask the guys coming back to EK from there and look at current KAL Rosters. Please note: I am not saying that things could not be improved here especially relating to work/life balance, however your arguement has more holes than Dr Reasons Cheese. :ugh:

[RK Blue sky]

As I said earlier Turkish is less than ideal but certainly better than EK. How much currency have we lost in Dubai with the VAT and runaway inflation? Probably less than Turkish but a whole lot more than we lost than last year.
I am on the 777 but actively trying to get on with Delta. I’m probably the last American standing who doesn’t want to stay.
Delta has 9 month captains and the bottom pay that I can make out is around $250 an hour. With a 80 hour month that’s $240,000 a year plus the profit share, 401k contribution. The last 3 years FOs have received about $150,000 in profit share. I kjow we get that here too but we do it for many many more hours through all hours of the night and day to 6 continents. Even widebody FOs are north of $250,000 a year for 80 hrs a month.
As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly. Apply if you’re interested. It can’t hurt.
How many KAL pilots have come here? I haven’t heard of any but you probably know more people. I know some pilots have left KAL to go to other places but not here. Who chooses EK?
If you weren’t stuck here and could leave would you leave?

[bafanguy]

[QUOTE=RK Blue sky;10271261]As I said the US government does not want any parked airplanes or stunted growth so Green Cards are being passed out Willy Nilly.[QUOTE]

RK,

Since this conversation is about pilots, I assume you're referring to green cards being issued by a concerned government to non-US pilots who come here because the US is short of pilots at the legacy level ?

Would you happen to have any documented sources for that ?

I think it's safe to say that the LAST thing the likes of DL, AA, UA, SW, FedEx or UPS have to worry about is parked airplanes or stunted growth due to lack of pilots. But I can always be wrong which is why specific documentation interests me.

If the Imperial Federal Government is passing out green cards as you describe, I'd love to see the documentation related to pilots. They may be granting legal entry to foreign nationals in a number of fields lacking sufficient US citizens but I don't get the impression legacy-eligible pilots are in that category in large, if any, numbers.

US carrier have always hired green card holders.

[Flyboy_SG]

[QUOTE=Flyboy_SG;10269222]


what are are those options ?

How far is your head in the sand? Are you really that blind?
The US is hiring like crazy and if you don’t have a US Passport get a Green Card immediately. The State Dept are handing them out like candy. The last thing the government wants is parked airplanes.


China is paying $27,000 a month and needs twice as many pilots as the US does.
Korean Ethiopian and Turkey are still expanding but get to the US now. You’ll be a captain in under 3 yrs and be making close to $300,000 with all the extras. It goes without saying you’ll work far less than you will in the sand.
Are you really unaware of your options Flyboy? I hope you’re aware of your options when you are crossing the Atlantic and I hope you are not in denial about how good things are here. Look at your options and get out.



That was a straight forward question RK. I very well know what my options are.

I agree partially with US and china. Who is handing over green cards like crazy ?? Walmart? I would buy one right away. Name an airline that even sponsors a visa.

Korean, No upgrade crappy work culture. Turkish, peanut salary with uncertainty in the region. And Ethiopian....don't ask me about it.



There are some sort of issues everywhere.

Are you even an Airline pilot or one of those office guys who compare long haul flying to chair warming jobs ?

[JA8957]

Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread;



And by "foreigners" you forgot to say only Australians as the title of that thread suggests.

[Aso]

Flyboy there is a fairly comprehensive list of the US airlines that are hiring foreigners on visas in this thread;

Australians are foreigners but not all foreigners are Australians.

There is no Visa for foreigners but for Australians only. Until the guy with the Orange wig believes that there needs to be a wall between the US and Australia too or wishes to piss them off for any other personal reason :\

[fatbus]

There is only one problem with the American carriers!

[bafanguy]

There is only one problem with the American carriers!

Only "one" ? :E

[a320--]

I see a lot of complaints about the 777 flight crews. What about the 380 rosters and crews, are they happy at EK?

[RK Blue sky]

There is only one problem with the American carriers!

Their pay is too high?
They don’t work hard enough?
Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me.

[TransitCheck]

Their pay is too high?
They don’t work hard enough?
Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me.


Your not forced to work 100 hours a month, you were never forced to join Emirates in the first place....you chose to. This same information about Emirates has been on PPRUNE and other sites for the last 15 years yet you chose to go anyway. You have nobody to blame but yourself yet your trying to lecture/guide others with your exaggerated facts and it's getting old. If you don't like it leave Emirates and go get a DEC job at Endeavor until you can get your prized job at Delta. Just go away...people like you are toxic in any organization good and bad.

Hopefully, the Delta interview process will pick up on your egotistical, boastful, know-it-all, and negative mindsets and fix the problem before you go there and find a bunch of new things to complain about.....Grass is always greener, right.

[mmmbop]

......Grass is always greener, right.

Well, I reckon the grass is a whole lot greener in the US, and pretty much everywhere else, than the UAE. And hell, it doesn't need watering 6 times a day with human faeces fertiliser to keep it that way either.

But you know, keep telling yourself life is good in the Middle East. Each to their own. :ok:

[TransitCheck]

Well, I reckon the grass is a whole lot greener in the US, and pretty much everywhere else, than the UAE. And hell, it doesn't need watering 6 times a day with human faeces fertiliser to keep it that way either.

But you know, keep telling yourself life is good in the Middle East. Each to their own. :ok:

If you re-read my post, my beef was with his inaccuracies and condescending attitude towards other people who chose to stay or who are not ready to leave yet. Simple as that.

You have never seen me respond to any other negative posters....mostly because I agree with them.

[what_goes_up]

Their pay is too high?
They don’t work hard enough?
Oh wait, that’s two problems. Yeah that’s one problem too many so I’m staying where I know I’m abused. Where I am forced to work almost 100 hrs a month, day or night, where my internet is blocked, where my money is rapidly diminishing. EK is the place for me.

No. But you would have to live in the US of A... No go...

[Canuck Guy]

It really is a shame that the operators in the region treat their front line workers like garbage. And then when you quit to go to a better company, they can’t understand why and cry foul.
After they've stolen from you for years, lied to your face on every occasion, mistreated you, encouraged you to break the law to save a buck, etc... somehow they are the victim.

[fatbus]

Break the law?

[Canuck Guy]

I know crews with most operators in the region. Almost all have been asked or instructed to fudge flight and duty limits.

[RK Blue sky]

[QUOTE=TransitCheck;10282625]If you re-read my post, my beef was with his inaccuracies

According to Transit what inaccuracies are we talking about?

Are you not flying close to 100 hrs a month?
Are you not flying day and night to 6 continents?
Is your internet not blocked?
Do you feel like you’re not getting abused?
If you don’t believe you are then this is the place for you.

Just go away.........If you don’t like it leave......
Yes this place is perfect for you Transit. You’ve become one of them. Forget about all the options, Emirates is your kind of airline.

[WwP]

Seems like i will not join to emirates after all these negative feedbacks. Plus they stopped paying for accomodation and only offering their apartments. Why dont we gather all together and start a new airline company with 100 percent crew happines ?

[LHR Rain]

Well, I reckon the grass is a whole lot greener in the US, and pretty much everywhere else, than the UAE. And hell, it doesn't need watering 6 times a day with human faeces fertiliser to keep it that way either.

But you know, keep telling yourself life is good in the Middle East. Each to their own. :ok:


One can only tell themselves that life is good in the Middle East and at EK for so long. It's like a volcano. After some time the pressure builds and you eventually blow and not in a good way.
Where is Harry? Rumour has it he interviewed at EJ a few weeks back. Wonder if he is going to accept the job and leave Emirates. Tell us Harry.

[Canuck Guy]

One can only tell themselves that life is good in the Middle East and at EK for so long.

I think that for a lot of people, working in the Middle East was their indoctrination to the majors. People quickly get the sense that it’s the standard, or they get hooked on the Kool Aid and honesty believe it’s the best there is.
Sure you can do a lot worse than what’s on offer in the UAE. But you can also do far, far better.