RAF Fastjet On Initials?

[GLIDER 90]

Afternoon All

With hearing fastjets on approach to various airfields doing radar to initials visual approach. How do you know when you are approaching the ip point to initials and the distance to the airfield ?

[Bob Viking]

Initials is usually at 3 or 5 miles on the extended centerline of the runway in use.

You use the kit to tell you when you’re there. That might be as simple as TACAN or nowadays most likely IN/GPS position and range from a point (runway threshold for example).

In good weather you can just look out the window and judge it visually or using a ground feature if you’re familiar with the airfield.

BV

[GLIDER 90]

Thanks for that, much appreciated.

[Tankertrashnav]

As an aside I remember a grumpy TV golf commentator many years ago complaining about Lightning pilots "showing off" at nearby Leuchars, and distracting from the golf on the holy ground of St Andrews. Actually what was happening was successive aircraft recovering to base and doing the then pretty standard run in and break to kill off speed. Noisier than a conventional approach, but a quicker way to get back on the ground.

[sycamore]

Back in the days of Palmer,Nicklaus,Player,at American Championships,one could hear,if they were near an airport,lots of background noise ,probably Connies,DC-7`s,Convairs,etc,clambering away after take-off...but not much complaining from players,commentators...

[dook]

Noisier than a conventional approach, but a quicker way to get back on the ground.

I have even seen a K2 do that, but he still ended up completing it with a three mile "short" finals. :E

[BEagle]

I'm surprised that the current generation need to use 'the kit' to find the IP. Perhaps because they don't fly VISUALLY often enough and spend too much time screen-gazing?

If I recall correctly, the IP was supposed to be a visually significant point roughly 30s from the threshold - so about 3-4 miles? In fact when I was under training at RAFC, our resident WIWOL often called "30 seconds" rather than "Initials".

[Bob Viking]

What a throughly passive aggressive and ultimately irrelevant post.

Try reading what I wrote.

I guess in BEagle’s world we just keep all the kit turned off until our second year on the Sqn. Just so we can learn properly.

As an aside, what visually significant point would you recommend using on the extended centreline to runway 01 at RAF Valley? How did you ever cope back in the 70’s?!

BV

[BEagle]

30s from abeam the threshold of RW02, then 3rd wave on the left and TLAR....

Not that we used RW02 that often - unless the Wx was NFG, in which case it was usually Rad/Vis anyway.

Point Echo pickup for quickie GCA worked well too.

[dook]

As an aside, what visually significant point would you recommend using on the extended centreline to runway 01 at RAF Valley?

Mark 1 eyeball Bob, and that wasn't the 70's. It was back in 1967.

Remember flying with me at Lossie ?

[Bob Viking]

So, ignoring the sarcasm and inherent smugness on display, basically what I said in my original reply?! Or did you give up reading that far down? Preferring instead to slavishly insist that the old ways will always be best and the generations that have come since could not possibly know more than the mighty BEagle.

How has the RAF coped since you left?

BV

[beardy]

How do you know when you are approaching the ip point to initials and the distance to the airfield ?

I think OP was asking for what the definition of initials is. So far there have been a bunch of converging opinions.


FWIW the run and break is great fun, but not normally faster to get on the ground than a visual straight in for a pair or singleton.