You know the MPs must be on holiday when...

[Valiantone]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-45084885

[Splash1983]

Surely not co-incidental with the school holidays and the second homeowners turning up to their holiday cottages expecting peace and solitude like they get on Saturday and Sunday they rest of the year when UKLFS is shut!

[Wensleydale]

They will have read that Linton is closing and the aircraft moving to Valley - got to get those compensation claims in early!!

[Saintsman]

You could do low flying over the sea and someone would complain that the noise was scaring the fish...

[MPN11]

Snowflakes in Wales in mid-Summer ... who would have thought that?

[Bob Viking]

Having seen the spotter forums on FB I think the RIAT participants increased the traffic levels in the loop somewhat.

Some cracking photos out there.

BV

[Tankertrashnav]

Alan Jones Evans, a councillor for Llanuwchllyn, Gwynedd, said: "The noise can be incredibly frightening for young children and the elderly.

I'd hazard a guess that most kids would love it it. As for the elderly - here's one old codger who wished we had some of this around here - all we get is boring old Merlins!

[Wander00]

Jet noise, the sound of freedom

[treadigraph]

I'd hazard a guess that most kids would love it it.

Aged about 9, I was playing in my grandmother's garden in Llwyngwril, on the coast a mile or two south of Barmouth, when a Phantom cracked overhead at about 0 feet and a zillion knots*. I was certainly startled but WOW! First fast jet I remember seeing...

*Actually might have been a Sea Vixen, memory sometimes sees it as a twin boom; probably closer to 1000' and perhaps 250kts...

[Wycombe]

Roger Harris, a visitor to the Dyfi Valley area, recalled a time he heard the planes going over.
He said: "From nowhere there came this terrifying scream of a jet going across this narrow valley.
"It frightened the living daylights out of me. It was actually heart stopping and left me shaking and disorientated for a while."

Anyone else thinking - for Pete's sake grow some, pity we're not at war etc etc :-(

[Pontius Navigator]

I'd hazard a guess that most kids would love it it. As for the elderly - here's one old codger who wished we had some of this around here - all we get is boring old Merlins!
We used to get Merlins too, some times one or two, or four, and not infrequently 6. A couple of years back, 8 even 😁

[BEagle]

Sounds to me like the Viet Taff need reminding about the Sound of Freedom!

Lllanuwchllyn - bottom left of Bala Lake, so an obvious visual feature...

No doubt some local troublemaking councillor in Pant-y-Lynr or somewhere is trying to make a name for himself.

Although they sometimes have a point. Mink are nasty little sods and start killing each other when frightened. So a red spot appeared on the AFCENT LL chart near one of our Gnat navex routes and we were ordered to avoid it. But Jones-the-mink got angrier and angrier as he was still getting overflights...

One the next issue of the chart, the red spot had been replotted - our careful avoidance of the previously plotted location had ensured that we'd all flown directly overhead the mink farm...:uhoh:

[GlobalNav]

Jet noise, the sound of freedom

Yes and they can even “feel it in their bones.” They ought to be grateful that these men and women are willing to take such risks to defend home and hearth. I feel it in my bones too, and at my age it’s one of the best feelings in my bones.

[Heathrow Harry]

Say we've heard their plea and are moving the whole lot to Lincolnshire...................

[Tankertrashnav]

Reminds me off that Welsh farmer who painted "Sod off Biggles" (or something similar) on his shed roof, this making his farm a target for every aircraft within a 50 mile radius!

[Yellow Sun]

Attention, Attention! This is the Bomber Controller for all bomb lists.
Translation: The earth is about to move.

YS:O

[Dan Gerous]

Having seen the spotter forums on FB I think the RIAT participants increased the traffic levels in the loop somewhat.

Some cracking photos out there.

BV



Yes nice pics indeed, but was that actual low flying training, or a series of photo ops?

[Danny42C]

Wycombe (#10),"It frightened the living daylights out of me. It was actually heart stopping and left me shaking and disorientated for a while."
But a Su-24 might frighten him a bit more !
,

[Danny42C]

BEagle (#12),

ISTR our JPs at Leeming had a mink farm red-circled somewhere in N.Yorks.. The trouble there, I understand, was that it was the breeding season, and the noise put the male mink "off their stroke", so to speak, apparently..

Anybody at Leeming 1967-72 confirm ?

[GeeRam]

Anyone else thinking - for Pete's sake grow some, pity we're not at war etc etc :-(

Indeed.

But, this is the problem with an increasingly shrinking RAF/FAA, there is less and less low flying around the country so joe-pleblic become less exposed to it, so actually then complain more when they do get surprised, as it becomes an increasing rare occurance.

[charliegolf]

They've always complained. If all LL flying were stopped, they'd complain ablout something else.

[sittingstress]

I hate to be crude, but I think in this instance it is best to communicate at the (low) level of the complainers, therefore the sermon according to St Stress is: F@ck 'em.

[S'land]

I'd hazard a guess that most kids would love it it. As for the elderly - here's one old codger who wished we had some of this around here - all we get is boring old Merlins!

Here is another old codger who wishes there was more around. My first apartment in Germany I was right under one of the low flying routes for the Luftwaffe Eurofighter, choppers, etc. It was superb when i was at home to sit on the balcony and watch them fly down the valley. Slowly the number of Eurofighters diminished (see another thread for the reasons). In my last year in that apartment I did nor see one. Now i live in the town and the only flying things are leaves in the autumn, ducks an the odd police chopper.

[melmothtw]

The Ministry of Defence (MOD) said the exercises were an "essential part of operational training".

Just to play devil's advocate, but is it an essential part of operational training to repeatedly use this same circular tract of airspace time after time after time? Surely, most of those 'training' in it have flown the same route many times already, so given that the MoD has no plans (I assume) to launch air strikes against this particular part of Wales any time soon, what are they actually learning that will be relevant operationally?

Genuine question.

[typerated]

Just to play devil's advocate, but is it an essential part of operational training to repeatedly use this same circular tract of airspace time after time after time? Surely, most of those 'training' in it have flown the same route many times already, so given that the MoD has no plans (I assume) to launch air strikes against this particular part of Wales any time soon, what are they actually learning that will be relevant operationally?

Genuine question.

Very true.

You can take it for granted that all the foreign aircraft that have used the loop recently have done so as a photo op.
I can sympathise with the locals - much of the trade round the loop are jollies and photo ops - operational training my bum!

[melmothtw]

I guess an analogy is the police. Everyone accepts the police need to drive fast, and to do this safely they need to practise. Now if that practise involved police cars from every nearby county and country hooning up and down your street day after day, week after week, for no obvious reason to yourself other than to satisfy some fanboy snappers stood at the side of the road, you might have something to say about it.

Assertions that it is necessary for operational training and that the sirens and revving engines are 'the sound of security' would ring a little hollow, I'd imagine.

[typerated]

Yes I agree.

Many many more aircraft go round 'the loop' than work Spadeadam at low level.
Does that not tell you all you need to know!

[RUCAWO]

The photo of the low level Tornado she was using on her Facebook page etc was taken by a friend of mine, to say he is not happy would be an understatement. He contacted her to demand it was taken down due to copywrite theft, it has been, and an invoice for its use over the few days will be in her inbox on Monday :)

[Foxtrot-Yankee]

Yes I agree.

Many many more aircraft go round 'the loop' than work Spadeadam at low level.
Does that not tell you all you need to know!

Probably because Spade is permanently covered in cloud, and if it isn’t, kit unserviceablility or apparent lack of controller ability means that meaningful EW training is better done in the sim.

[typerated]

I don't remember West Wales having that much better weather than Cumbria!

Even if EW is not an option - Low fly around LFA 13 and using the targets I'm sure has more value than a none tactical jolly through the loop?