Boeing Fleet management: Legal/industrial issues

[Apple Tree Yard]

So this is how it is going to be is it? Last newsletter you (BCP) told us that we couldn’t call in unfit AFTER we had been assigned a duty off of a reserve period (highly illegal, and I am certain you have put yourself in legal jeopardy with that, what say you AOA?). After all, if I come down with food poisoning on the Airport Express on the way to said duty, you seem to suggest I am supposed to still operate, in contravention of ANO's regarding operating when unfit. In the latest newsletter, you say we can’t “discuss industrial issues on the flight deck”. Good luck with that. I can safely assure you that that is about the ONLY thing that is being discussed, every day, every flight (with the result usually being what airline we are applying to, what airline we have interviewed with, what airline start date am I waiting for). I'll talk about whatever I want to talk about on my flight deck. Why not stand up for your pilots and represent their concerns and issues to Swire management (holding my breath). If there was not a complete failure of management and a laundry list of grievances, there wouldn't be anything to talk about would there? No, instead, you feel you can just amend human nature, coerce to operate unfit and shut down freedom of expression. Ok, that about sums up the complete disconnect between management and the aircrew body. Is there any wonder that nearly every pilot under the age of 45 is looking to get out.

[Dilbert68]

Did you expect anything different from our Boeing CP? Who gives a rats ass what he writes in his newsletters?

[morningcoffee]

180 Crew on reserve, none call in sick while on reserve, but the 4 that get called to operate then go sick. The 1:5.832,000 probability of this happening doesn’t make you curious?
If you’re sick go sick, should be irrelevant whether it’s reserve or O day or G Day or not.

[mngmt mole]

Once again MC, you demonstrate the abject inability of management to see the woods for the trees. Also an inability to read and understand. The OP was pointing out that what the CP said was in fact illegal (you know, that little thing called the "Law", which seems to be conveniently ignored by CX whenever they seem to feel like it). You can't tell a pilot that he can't call in unfit, at ANYTIME. If a pilot deems himself unfit, then that ends the debate, no matter where and when. Secondly, no airline needs a 180 people on reserve, only an alrline that has demonstrated epic incompetence in their scheduling of pilots, thereby needing 180 people on reserve. The other point raised, that of him telling us we are restricted to what we can discuss. Laughable. You have reaped what you have sown.

[BusyB]

MC, it just makes me assume that CC have called the 4 who were most fatigued from their rosters and felt they wouldn't get called out.

[controlledrest]

If CC call you on reserve, or you have turned up at dispatch and get a last minute change, one must still assess if the duty can be safely completed. If your rest prior to the duty is not adequate one must refuse the duty. It is nit that hard. If CC say 'but it is legal', just reply that it is not legal due fatigue.

[Air Profit]

Nope, the CP has dictated that you must operate, even if unfit. I'm sure that's legal. It must be, it came from a manager.

[Farman Biplane]

The “sick” part of this whole discussion is that there were 180 B777 pilots on reserve at the same time. That has to be around 20% of the total B777 Pilots? That indicates how the broken rostering system and various COS issues have impacted the airline.

[Air Profit]

Next Fleet Newsletter: instructions as to what style and colour underpants we can wear.

[DropKnee]

Next Fleet Newsletter: instructions as to what style and colour underpants we can wear.
I was told blue with your rank stitched on the leg hole.

[cannot]

Sadly there is not a single individual on the 3rd floor that will stand up for the pilots when the going gets tough .
Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking that any of those people in the fleet office are your friends or that they are there to support you . They will throw you under the bus without hesitation to promote their own agenda , starting with the DFO and working their way down

[unitedabx]

CP Boeing has already been told to retract this statement. He was told in no uncertain terms that if any legal challenge arose then "he would be on his own".

[Arfur Dent]

Watch the film "Sully" if you want to see how much support you'll get.
Don't fly fatigued.

[VR-HFX]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/960x933/retrofit_cx_5edade6374dd50b1e0e6d6a9a51a53abdf3045e6.jpg

[Trafalgar]

CP Boeing has already been told to retract this statement. He was told in no uncertain terms that if any legal challenge arose then "he would be on his own".
Well, we'll see. If the history of arrogance and bloody mindedness inherent in our management ranks holds to form, it will be snowing in Central in August before that happens. I hope he doesn't retract it, as it would be better that management remain in constant legal jeopardy, setting themselves up for numerous lawsuits like the one in progress from Annabelle (if you have a problem at work, just show the CAD the newsletter from the CP, where he insists you can't call in sick if unfit, then pass to your lawyer).

​​​​​​​When you work for a company in a lawless environment, it's no surprise that you are witness to lawless pronouncements from the management of such companies. The sad thing is, he's probably convinced himself that his statement was completely reasonable. I wonder what the CAA/FAA think about it? I'm sure those jurisdictions appreciate having aircraft operating into their airspace with bullied, unfit and distracted pilots. What a joke this entire company has become, and what a disgrace is our management. (remember, don't discuss any of this on the flight deck:eek:).

[Starbear]

But you already downloaded your copy. Correct? It’s gold. And as I said elsewhere the CP pronouncement on this was nothing short of asinine etc etc.

[Slasher1]

But you already downloaded your copy. Correct? It’s gold. And as I said elsewhere the CP pronouncement on this was nothing short of asinine etc etc.

I do not remember the exact wording of the statement made.

If its intent was to bridle, intimidate, or imply retribution toward the legitimate use of sick leave guaranteed in COS, CA, or CBA, and was applicable to other jurisdictions (like the US for example), I believe it would unquestionably violate the laws in those jurisdictions. I think it might be prudent if a 'clarification' were issued which would indicate the Company fully supports the legitimate use of sick leave which in some cases is a contractural right.

[Flex88]

The French lawsuit (fiasco) is over (i.e. "settled" i.e. checks written non disclosure agreements signed) and what exactly happened to the person (DFO) who was spitefully responsible for that. As usual, rode off into the sunset with huge pension and bonus. Nothing changes.

#CXit

[unitedabx]

Actually he has returned to CX as a consultant and does sim ride assessments on new pilot applicants.

[PNM]

Download, and backup to a cloud service, every single newsletter. It's a chore, but this is proof that it's worthwhile.

[PNM]

BTW, it's still accessible... link to it from the weekly update.

[arse]

From the July Boeing Newsletter: Reserve Duties: This month we had three incidents where crew reported unfit for duty after being called out from reserve. Crews are reminded that they are required to call Crew Operations and declare that they are unfit for reserve duties before the reserve period commences. Calling unfit after the callout, in one case only 1:14 prior to sign on is not acceptable and can lead to delays and disruption which is not in our customer’s best interests

[Apple Tree Yard]

I'll tell you another thing that is "not in our customers best interests". That is being coerced into working a flight while unfit, as per the intimidation inherent in our Fleet newsletter. This place descends closer to hell each and every day.

[arse]

The Boeing July Newsletter in question still remains available via the FOP Weekly Update: 4 July 2018 link, however, it has now been edited with the comment on Reserve Duties having been deleted.

I wonder if there will be a clarification forthcoming that the CP may have "misspoke".

[Apple Tree Yard]

Misspoke? No, simply a reflection of the management's attitude towards their staff: stuff the law, we'll do what we want. ( and most of us have downloaded and copied the original)

[Trafalgar]

History is replete with examples of "functionaries" that do the bidding of evil. It has always been the case. Every company has a coterie of sycophants who sell their character and integrity out for their own personal gain. CX has been riddled with such people since the early 90's. I can assure you that the current crop have all had the "interview", whereupon they had to confirm their willingness to sell out the best interests of their professional colleagues, to secure their own personal gain. The newsletters by our CP the past two months firmly prove that our current management have drunk from the poisoned chalice of Swire mendacity. Basically, our new CP should be ashamed at his intro into his position. You have shredded any credibility you may have brought with you. Shame. Shame. Shame.

[mngmt mole]

The Boeing July Newsletter in question still remains available via the FOP Weekly Update: 4 July 2018 link, however, it has now been edited with the comment on Reserve Duties having been deleted.

I wonder if there will be a clarification forthcoming that the CP may have "misspoke".
Just checked the CX website. The July newsletter has been deleted from the list of available newsletters. Hmmm...

[Flex88]

History is replete with examples of "functionaries" that do the bidding of evil. It has always been the case. Every company has a coterie of sycophants who sell their character and integrity out for their own personal gain. CX has been riddled with such people since the early 90's. I can assure you that the current crop have all had the "interview", whereupon they had to confirm their willingness to sell out the best interests of their professional colleagues, to secure their own personal gain. The newsletters by our CP the past two months firmly prove that our current management have drunk from the poisoned chalice of Swire mendacity. Basically, our new CP should be ashamed at his intro into his position. You have shredded any credibility you may have brought with you. Shame. Shame. Shame.

Traf as always on topic however let's not forget, regarding all the latest debacles, just who's in charge...

This group in its entirety are the latest "functionaries" anointed in their "leadership" positions as a result of "Project Altitude" And they're new on the job so we can only expect more of the same..

#OMG

[India Four Two]

our current management have drunk from the poisoned chalice of Swire mendacity.

Traf, as a frequent CX flyer in the past, I have followed Fragrant Harbour with interest and dismay, watching what has happened to my once favourite airline. Your line above is the best I have read - erudite, succinct and to the point.

[Slasher1]

Surprised they’d put that in print.

Well, maybe not all THAT surprised.

When you are a manager or supervisor, it is often wise to choose ones words carefully and take the opportunity not to say something that doesn’t need said.