Getting The Chop

[DODGYOLDFART]

Now I appreciate there are at least two meanings to "Getting The Chop". The first and most obvious one is simply getting killed. However I am more interested in the other well known one in he RAF when one was thrown off a particular course. At one time it was thought that around 40% of potential pilots got "chopped" during training. It is these people who I am interested in. I can remember all sorts of threats concerning failure during the 1950's when National Service was mandatory. One in particular was that if you got chopped you ended up serving the reminder of your two years as an AC2 in the cookhouse. I know this didn't happen in fact, as I met a couple of chaps who ended up variously employed in admin training and one as an AEO on Javelins.

So I am sure there must be a few lurking out there on Prune, what happened to you?

[57mm]

AEO on Javs? I don't think so......

[Fareastdriver]

That's like being Assistant Families Officer at Saxa Vord.

When I went through South Cerney in April 1960 my contemporaries had this threat hanging over them. There being National Service Cardington was on the cards.
Halfway through the course National Service was suspended so the threat evaporated; and so did half the course as they chopped themselves.

[Just This Once...]

AEO on Javs? I don't think so......

Well I did share a drink or 2 with an ex-AEO who said he flew on Javs; the ex-Jav navs and pilots also assembled at the bar didn't seem concerned with their old friend's claims. An aircraft well-before my time but they did have good tales of the Jav, especially the explosions when trying to start the thing.

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought you meant like when I went to Ely.

[NutLoose]

RE AC2 in the cookhouse,
Odiham had a pot washer in the airmans mess who was pressurised by his father, ( some colonel in charge of some regiment ) to join the services, he was far from thick but it wasn't for him, so in revolt he joined the RAF in the lowest possible trade, he could which was a Trade Assistant General and he whiled away his time washing pans and was happy at his work... His father however..

[Saintsman]

I’m quite sure that more than a few TAGs were caught out by the ‘General’ part of the description when they joined up.

[NutLoose]

My "contract" which I still have stated if I fluffed my engineering course I would be remustered to TAG , i have been fluffing it ever since ;)

[DODGYOLDFART]

The AC2 in the cook house threat did not only apply to National Servicemen but Direct Entry bods as well if they had not completed two years service when the chop came down!
AEO there were certainly more than one as I remember coming across around eight trainee AEO's in a Varsity/Valetta that had that had dropped into West Malling with engine trouble in the mid/late 50's.

[Pontius Navigator]

I thought you meant as in my trip to Ely.

[gr4techie]

I can remember all sorts of threats concerning failure during the 1950's when National Service was mandatory. One in particular was that if you got chopped you ended up serving the reminder of your two years as an AC2 in the cookhouse.


One of the best books I've ever read is Chickenhawk by Robert Mason.
It's an autobiography of his experiences as a non-commissioned helicopter pilot, in the US Army, during the Vietnam War.
I remember in the first few chapters he wrote that what kept him motivated during his flight training was knowing they were trained to be infantry soldiers first and helicopter Pilots second. So if he got chopped, he would end up being Infantry in Vietnam.

I highly recommend the book.

[Pontius Navigator]

AEOs were the new breed of signaller for the V-bombers.

[Lima Juliet]

Probably a pax trip or a failed trial like the E-3D fighter controller that failed to convert to the F3?

[Martin the Martian]

Having read the excellent The Arnold Scheme about RAF recruits learning to fly in the US, I note that those washed out from pilot training remustered in Canada. While many went on to retrain and became single-winged aircrew of assorted flavours, a number ended up undertaking general duties, including cleaning or kitchen duties, at various RCAF stations until they were demobbed in 1945-46. Now while on the one hand it would have been a safe posting, for those who joined up to serve their country in its time of need and were desperate to do something worthwhile it must have felt like a real kick in the teeth.

[Mogwi]

I was chopped as an RN midshipman pilot on Wessex HAS 3 but eventually "made it" as the last RAF pilot to shoot down an enemy aircraft (in a Sea Harrier). Not sure what that proves, except never give up!!

[Tankertrashnav]

I have a friend who was on my nav course at Gaydon in 69. He had been chopped as a pilot (at Linton, I think) and then got chopped from our nav course.

He went on to have a full career as a combat pilot, first in the Israeli Air Force, then the SAAF, the RhodesianAF, the Sri Lankan Air Force, then in various clandestine jobs for the CIA and lots more Flown everything in combat from Hueys to Meteors and Mig 21s

Cant help thinking he was somewhat of a loss to the RAF, but somehow I doubt if he ever regretted the way things turned out

[TBM-Legend]

Not quite the RAF but my late father-in-law [SSGT Edward Potocki] was undergoing pilot training at civilian school in California under the umbrella of the Air Force on Ryan PT-22's. One day the four companies of his Class intake were called to parade [about 150 studs] and after a brief introduction, the officer in charge ordered A and B companies left turn and return to your pilot training. C and D companies right turn and prepare to depart for Aerial Gunnery School!.

He protested to be told that the AAC is your master and you will proceed as ordered or spend the rest of the war on KP! He went on to become a Flight Engineer on B-17's with 483rd BG in Italy only to be severely wounded in 1944 over the target in Northern Italy. Became an engineer with NASA including Apollo 13 event..

To his dying day he resented being "chopped" at flight school...

[Hubstrasse]

Throughout flying training I had a few 'chop rides', Then as an examiner - instructor in later life had to end the careers of a few aspiring aircrew. If they asked, over a beer (or two- remember those days) I would explain, additionally to the debrief, that it was preferable to chop now than attend a funeral later. Most understood and agreed their time had come to gracefully select another path.

[Pontius Navigator]

Hubstrasse, indeed once they get over the crushing blow of being chopped, and the loss of any direction in their career, they often have a feeling of relief as that pressure has been removed.

Military​​​ flying training is like an increasingly steep slope. Most can manage the first part then the pace picks up until they reach a wall. Later, with out the pressure, in a different situation they succeed. I knew two navs, one became a helo pilot the other fixed wing although later killed himself.

Look at the number of fast jet navs that cross over to civilian pilot.

Echoing TTNs story, one nav on our course eventually got pilot training and went to Buccaneers before going Civi.

[Wander00]

There was also the "chopper" girlfriend. One girl at a teacher training college in Lincoln, every Towers cadet she went out with got the chop from flying training. Pretty girl as I recall

[Union Jack]

One day the four companies of his Class intake were called to parade [about 150 studs] and after a brief introduction, the officer in charge ordered A and B companies left turn and return to your pilot training. B and C companies right turn and prepare to depart for Aerial Gunnery School!.

It looks as if he might still have had a choice if he had been in B Company......

Jack

[TBM-Legend]

It looks as if he might still have had a choice if he had been in B Company......

...unfortunately for him not in B but C company. I have his flight school book with picture of them all including Ed..

[ACW418]

DOF

Could you have meant as a RO on Javelins.

ACW

[DODGYOLDFART]

DOF

Could you have meant as a RO on Javelins.

ACW

I am afraid I don't know. I was told by someone else that that is what became of him. I was a long time ago and I could be wrong but somehow I don't think so.

[longer ron]

DOF

Could you have meant as a RO on Javelins.

ACW

Originally Posted by Fixed Cross in 2013
Forgive an old "RO" from entering the Javelin exchange but the correct designation was "Radio Observer". Not many were actually trained-perhaps 100?.

After 6 months of basic Nav training at one of the Nav schools the RO progressed to radar intercept training either at North Luffenham or Leeming. Chasing blips up and down scopes sitting sideways in a smelly old Brigand (in total darkness) was not an easy game and many fell by the wayside. However, many of those "chopped" returned to Nav school and emerged later with a Navs brevet and a commission. The advantages of this procedure were not lost on other ROs and some were suspected of not exactly doing their best to succeed.

Subsequently after a tour in the back seat most ROs followed back through Nav training. The odd very lucky individual got into the front seat (yes, I was one of them) and somewhat late in career found our way into the Hunter force.

Certainly possible for an RO to end up as an AEO I would have thought

[Old-Duffer]

Perhaps the originator of this Thread meant Radar/Radio Observer who I seem to recall wore a badge with 'RO' on it?

Old Duffer

[MPN11]

As I was post-NS, I can’t answer DOF’s question. But when I was chopped from RN Flying Grading I was eventually (after a PQ!!) offered Ship-Driving, which I declined. My subsequent 29 years in RAF ATC was OK, though!

[DODGYOLDFART]

Perhaps the originator of this Thread meant Radar/Radio Observer who I seem to recall wore a badge with 'RO' on it?

Old Duffer

Hi Old Duffer. What I originally said that a chap on a pilots course got chopped and latter I heard he had emerged as an AEO on Javelins not an RO.

At the time(1957 at Turnhill) there was a complication known as National Service and a common threat held over our heads was, if you got chopped off the course you would still be required to complete two years service. Further more as you were actually only an AC2 General Duties and just an "acting Pilot Officer" you reverted to the rank of AC2 and you could then find yourself washing dishes in the Airman's Mess. I am not aware of this happening to anyone and most that got chopped handed in their kit and were accompanied to the main gate where there F1250 was taken from them and they again became a civilian. I am aware of a few that did stay in and chose a different trade. I have put this paragraph in as I have had a couple of PM's asking for clarification.

[Brian 48nav]

I worked with a couple of ex-Javelin ROs in NATS - Bob Houghton ( now deceased ) and John MacDermott, who I believe is also deceased. At LHR we also had 2 ex-Javelin navs, Derek Harriss ( not misspelt! ) and Terry Quantrill.

[Onceapilot]

Throughout flying training I had a few 'chop rides', Then as an examiner - instructor in later life had to end the careers of a few aspiring aircrew. If they asked, over a beer (or two- remember those days) I would explain, additionally to the debrief, that it was preferable to chop now than attend a funeral later. Most understood and agreed their time had come to gracefully select another path.

Yes, your view is fair Hub. However, there is often (always?) a tremendous mix of pressures upon trainee Mil aircrew that effect their performance in training. In a career of mostly Mil aviation, I have seen trainees go from bottom of the pile to the top and be very successful, buffoons promoted to get them out of flying, and also top tyro's go from the top to...dead, killed by their own errors.:sad: Certainly, the RAF of the 60's onwards was able to chose it's trainees with the basic abilities and potential. I am sure that many of the high percentage "chopped" in training were just victims of the system. Certainly, many were unlucky to go through during periods of low demand! :(

OAP

[t7a]

Surprised BEagle hasn't expressed a view on this topic yet.

[rolling20]

I was chopped as an RN midshipman pilot on Wessex HAS 3 but eventually "made it" as the last RAF pilot to shoot down an enemy aircraft (in a Sea Harrier). Not sure what that proves, except never give up!!
Mogwi, I for one would love to hear how you managed that. I had a chum who did it the reverse way to you, a few years after you I am guessing.

[BEagle]

t7a wrote: Surprised BEagle hasn't expressed a view on this topic yet.

A typical 237 OCU staff comment....:rolleyes:

[5aday]

My father instructed as a Sgt Pilot at Middleton St George in the early fifties and in later life, told me he had 'chopped' guys for their own longevity. When it came to my turn to 'chop' people, his advice was if it was justified to just step forward and do it. I recall one chap who came over to our table and the Sailors (Mariners?) restaurant in HKG and told me it was the best thing that ever happened to him and I took a big load off his shoulders.

[rlsbutler]

I was an instructor at a basic FTS in the midlands, when Air Marshal Sir Patrick Dunn was C-in-C. The new doctrine was that the Command was chopping too many students and effectively that there were no bad students just bad instructors.

The school had rather a family atmosphere and (I think) a low chop rate. For all that, there was one student whom we all wanted to chop. The student in question was a bit of a BS merchant, did not seem to be listening to instruction (we most of us flew with him) and failed the odd check ride. He seemed to have natural ability. He was at least once trailled by an instructor because we suspected he was wasting or misusing his solo sorties. My own view was he was actually something of a psychopath. The nub of the problem was one of Personal Qualities. We agreed that we could not see him as a responsible aircraft captain; we saw him as bound to be the death of someone in due course and we feared that someone might not even be him.

With the doctrine at the time, we could not chop him from training. The school closed and I was posted. It would take some research for me to put a name on him now. At the time I had an interesting overseas tour to go to, so I made no attempt to learn if our forebodings were justified.

Sir Patrick Dunn refused his next posting as an overseas C-in-C and took early retirement. As far as we were concerned, being miles below his pay grade, we thought him twice a failure.

[Big Pistons Forever]

All the Instructors I know, both Military and Civilian including myself never really sweated the guys we chopped, but everyone had a story of the guy they should not have passed.....

[Fly3]

Jenkins.

Had lunch with "Sooty's" owner recently at the pub in Manaccan. Life was more fun in those days.

[Pontius Navigator]

All the Instructors I know, both Military and Civilian including myself never really sweated the guys we chopped, but everyone had a story of the guy they should not have passed.....whom

In training in the 60s a good number of my nav course were chopped pilots, several didn't make it through nav training. Later, as an instructor 70% of my nav course were chopped pilots. All scraped through the basics but in the end only 10% graduated.

The difficult thing is we would have chopped most of them on day 1. One we would have chopped graduated but never made it to a front line sqn; one we would have passed failed. Using just intuition alone would have saved them a lot of stress. One went Provost and another Engineer. An Army psychologist had observed years before that experienced instructors could assess potential failures early on. My daughter at OASC observed that there was more work rejecting a candidate than in passing them.

[Tankertrashnav]

When I was at nav school a stude on another course got chopped for fiddling his astro. Basically he got a gee fix which he plotted as a three line fix, then entered plausible astro figures which replaced the garbage he had obtained when shooting his own astro. He was chopped not only because of his ineptitude but because of his lack of integrity. What really annoyed me was that instead of being out on his ear he was offered RAF Regiment. I was still wearing my Regiment flashes as I went through the course and I took great exception to the idea that somehow or other a Regiment officer didn't need the same level of integrity as a navigator. I brought this up with my course commander and asked if anything could be done, but was basically told to wind my neck in.

No idea what happened to him in the Regiment - I hope he didn't end up killing one of his own blokes because of some sin of omission which he had covered up.

[Pontius Navigator]

TTN, promotion and posting is always the easy option.

We had a nav chopped as well who went Regiment. He was found not guilty at his Court Martial in 1972.

He sought other employment not long afterwards.

[Fareastdriver]

I cannot remember any of my pilot mates who were Court Marshalled.

[Onceapilot]

I cannot remember any of my pilot mates who were Court Marshalled.

I know that quite a few of mine should have been! :)

OAP

[pontifex]

I have done a fair amount of pilot training both civil and military and I have had to give the dreaded interview to a goodly number of students. Practically without exception it has been greeted with a significant psychological expression of relief It'not what you do, its how you do it! I have no angry ex students.

[Haraka]

After going from PPL via EFTS (UAS Chipmunk) , when arriving at BFTS at the Towers the student gossip was. "The QFI's are O.K. but for one, who is a disaster". Well, of course you can guess which one I got.
His other student chopped himself after ten hours (subsequently he did the airsickness course and was reinstated).I carried on, confident that I could hack it regardless and then found that the only time I actually learned anything was in check rides. My instructor it transpired was leaving the Service anyway and was NFI - and was subsequently himself suspended from B.A. I later discovered. The fact that, being a "green shielder" I suddenly found myself embarrassingly outranking him didn't help matters! When I was chopped (after three chop rides in succession after 100 hours on the J.P.) the RAFC Commandant had me in for several interviews stating that that he was not happy. He also pointed out to me that the life of a below average pilot on a transport squadron was a pretty miserable existence. My loyalty to my erstwhile instructor and the training squadron made me keep my mouth shut, despite one other instructor (with whom I had flown) privately taking me aside and telling me to speak out as the situation was well known. In my final interview with the Commandant he pointed to his telephone . "One call from me and you are on the next course at Hamble-it's up to you". I chose to stay in the RAF (loyalty again) and went in to a Ground Branch that welcomed me with open arms.
All QFI's know the sob stories from chopped students who would never had made it and just won't accept the facts, often blaming the instructor(s), so I don't consider myself necessarily to be outside of that category. Luckily I went on later to do some interesting flying outside of the Service and had a satisfying career which took me around the world. Sometimes though I do wonder what might have been the outcome had that call been made......

(Chopped at Hamble, probably :) )

[megan]

Tale from a mate on Vampires. Having troubles with instructor and in fear of getting chopped requested an interview with the boss. At end of interview boss instructed him to meet him on the flight line booted and spurred. Satisfactory ride with the boss and assigned a new instructor, went on to get the wings.

[Old-Duffer]

I am reminded by TTN's post re a trainee nav being chopped because he fiddled his astros.

I was on the equippers course when we had a guy who was chopped for that sin and allowed to remuster in a ground branch. He proved an unpleasant individual who, whilst unable to do drill/AOCs parade was able to play cricket for the station. He was compelled to repeat the last module of our training course. He went on thereafter to enjoy some rather nice pieces of career planning and ended up fairly high up the food chain. In retirement, he had a "nice little earner" but was subsequently invited to do something else with his life, when questions were raised over some things he did, which eventually reached the national press.

Some of us, like TTN, took the view that his dishonesty rendered him unfit to hold Her Majesty's Writ!!!

Old Duffer

[hunterboy]

Sadly, it seems to be the bull **** artists and dodgy people that do well in certain walks of life...you only have to see what type of individuals seem to be minting money nowadays as CEO’s or social media “influencers” to wonder where it has all gone wrong.

[Danny42C]

Apocryphal Old Story (or Softening the Blow):


QFI (Pole): "Vat is your name, Smithers ?"

Stood (puzzled): "Smithers, Sir".

QFI: "No, no, no, - vat is your ozzer name ?"

Stood: "Jonathan, Sir".

QFI: "What does your muzzer call you ?"

Stood: "Johnnie, Sir".

QFI (places comforting arm round Stood's shoulders): "Well, Johnnie - you're scrubbed !"

All right, you've heard it before, I suppose ....

[BEagle]

No doubt the QFI had a name from the bottom of the eye chart, eh Danny? KZXYGKQZ or similar?

That's like the story about the Rockape corporal who was told to soften the way he passed on bad news to new recruits. Simply bawling out "Smith, SMITH - two paces forward, MARCH! Fall out, your mother's dead" was deemed rather harsh.

A few days later he had them on parade. "Those with mothers, two paces forward, MARCH! SMITH, where the 'ell do think you're going?"

[DODGYOLDFART]

I have recently been reminded that at the time we went through the selection process at RAF Hornchurch in the mid '50's, we were selected as Pilot/Navigators. Some of us were questioned at some length as to how we would feel if we did not make it as pilots and became navigators given that we would be signing on for twelve years. Consequently at Ternhill several did drop out from pilot training and were transferred to Navigation but the details now escape me.

[RetiredBA/BY]

I was chopped as an RN midshipman pilot on Wessex HAS 3 but eventually "made it" as the last RAF pilot to shoot down an enemy aircraft (in a Sea Harrier). Not sure what that proves, except never give up!!




Absolutely, never, ever give up because flying is a very odd environment and a great leveller.

As a very green immature 18 year old,on my basic FTS course I was warned I was about to be chopped because my navigation was rubbish. Sod that , won the navigation trophy by a large margin!

Later as Valiant copilot, after the wings fell off , I was asked what posting I preferred, CFS said I.
Response from acting boss: You have neither the ability or personality for that, you will NEVER, EVER, be a QFI, so NO.

Fast forward 7 years, the then acting CO came up to the standards office for his FHT on his refresher course. He was just a mite surprised to find I was the senior standards QFI.

Later , as a training captain in my airline, flew with three of my former colleagues who had much better postings than me out of AFS, fIrst tourist Lightning’s etc but could not pass our command course.

So no, if your have your heart set on something, never , ever give up!

[mopardave]

Absolutely, never, ever give up because flying is a very odd environment and a great leveller.

As a very green immature 18 year old,on my basic FTS course I was warned I was about to be chopped because my navigation was rubbish. Sod that , won the navigation trophy by a large margin!

Later as Valiant copilot, after the wings fell off , I was asked what posting I preferred, CFS said I.
Response from acting boss: You have neither the ability or personality for that, you will NEVER, EVER, be a QFI, so NO.

Fast forward 7 years, the then acting CO came up to the standards office for his FHT on his refresher course. He was just a mite surprised to find I was the senior standards QFI.

Later , as a training captain in my airline, flew with three of my former colleagues who had much better postings than me out of AFS, fIrst tourist Lightning’s etc but could not pass our command course.

So no, if your have your heart set on something, never , ever give up!

Hmmmmm…..wish I'd spoken to you before giving up after the second attempt at OASC!!!!! Ah well.

[RetiredBA/BY]

I was chopped as an RN midshipman pilot on Wessex HAS 3 but eventually "made it" as the last RAF pilot to shoot down an enemy aircraft (in a Sea Harrier). Not sure what that proves, except never give up!!






I think it absolutely proves the maxim of "never give up !" From chopped helo l pilot to top scoring fighter pilot in the most demanding of circumstances in the South Atlantic, is no mean feat, in fact a truly extraordinary story ! By the way, "Hostile Skies" is a truly brilliant read !

But I was recently reminded of facing the "Chop" in a different way.

With a number of family and friends we attended the RAF 100 celebration at the Royal Albert Hall, superbly done.

One "item" was to celebrate the excellence and heroism of RAF aeromedical teams.

A young Marine captain, who had been rescued under fire and later brought back to the UK, both by the RAF stood ramrod straight on stage despite the loss of both legs AND an arm, after an IED explosion and as well as expressing his sincerest thanks to the teams said " never let anyone tell you you can't do something and never, ever give up" . For his amazing courage and dignity he, and the RAF teams, aircrew and aeromedics, received a highly emotional standing ovation.

This young officer had very nearly got the "chop" in a big way and was a shining example to us all.

Whenever my young grandson , who was with us at the RAH, faces a tough time I will remind him of that young man and the brilliance of the RAF medics and aircrews who saved him, and emphasise "Never, ever, give up".

[BEagle]

A fine post, RetiredBA/BY!

On a more light-hearted note, a mate of mine was once marched in for a chop interview with the Boss during his Hunter AFT course at Valley (he was too tall for the Gnat).

This came as something of a shock, as Bloggs had done very well at RAFC on the JP - and IIRC, had also been a Sword of Honour winner. His Hunter QFIs had heaped praise on his T7 flights and he was soon solo on the GT6. When the Boss asked him for his response, he said "Well, it's rather a surprise, Sir - I thought I was doing OK". "Well, young man, we have very high standards and I'm afraid...."
At which point the phone rang. "I told you I wasn't to be disturb...What? WHAT?? Bugger....!"
He turned to my chum and announced "Seems I've been talking to the wrong chap. Please delete all after Good Morning with my apologies - you are indeed doing exceptionally well!"
"Thank you, Sir. Is there anyone you would like me to send in?"
"Err, no - I'll sort it out myself"

The laughter from the QFIs office at the Boss's misident was loud and clear "Silly bugger should know his students better" was one of the more polite comments.

Chum was posted to Harriers from Brawdy - but resigned his commission and emigrated.

[Arfur Dent]

Must be something about the Harrier. One guy I flew with was chopped from one of the BFTS courses (can't remember where) and became an Air Traffic Controller. Got back into another FTS somehow (probably by smooth talking without moving his lips) and ended up as a very respectable Harrier pilot - if there is such a thing! Well done mate! (Bona mate, actually).

[Pontius Navigator]

On never give up. I don't know the story, but on a cruise ship as had a disabled passenger He too had no legs, one arm, missing fingers and no nose. One day he and his assistant missed the tour coach. As we were leaving he appeared and ran for the coach. I guess was mid 40s. He only used a wheelchair to give his legs a rest.

I have a friend, ex-SF, who can barely walk and needs a wheel chair from car to restaurant but insists on walking to the table. Sadly he is getting weaker but will not give up.
​​​​​


​​

[cargosales]

"Never give up" is good for how to approach your life generally but perhaps less helpful so when it comes to life-critical things like flying?? Equally, "knowing and recognising your limits" also comes into play bigtime.

I was never particularly great at powered flying .. "agricultural with the controls" was how my UAS boss politely described my flying. After that, on a VGS, it was different and I didn't do too badly and really enjoyed it. Until I went to CFS for my C-Cat course... and was assigned the worst, most useless twunt of an A2* QFI that ever walked this earth. Everything he did was different to the procedures had been drummed into me for the previous 4 years and I got regular criticism from him, despite me protesting to no avail that he was teaching things differently to all the other QFIs. By some miracle though I passed the course and became a baby QGI.

Went back to my parent VGS, passed the site checks etc but then learned that my basic skills really weren't good enough to cope with studes trying to kill me. I quit soon after that and to this day haven't regretted that decision.

Sad and disappointed yes but bitter, no.

CS

[ShyTorque]

I cannot remember any of my pilot mates who were Court Marshalled.

Aah, is it the usual age related problems?

:E

[cargosales]

Originally Posted by Fareastdriver https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10208659#post10208659)I cannot remember any of my pilot mates who were Court Marshalled.
Aah, is it the usual age related problems?

:E

I suspect it to be more related to rank than age :8

[rlsbutler]

... the school had rather a family atmosphere and (I think) a low chop rate. For all that, there was one student whom we all wanted to chop. The student in question was a bit of a BS merchant, did not seem to be listening to instruction (we most of us flew with him) and failed the odd check ride. He seemed to have natural ability. He was at least once trailled by an instructor because we suspected he was wasting or misusing his solo sorties. My own view was he was actually something of a psychopath. The nub of the problem was one of Personal Qualities. We agreed that we could not see him as a responsible aircraft captain; we saw him as bound to be the death of someone in due course and we feared that someone might not even be him.

With the doctrine at the time, we could not chop him from training.

Further to my post #36, by sheer coincidence an old pilot friend came to stay with us a day or two ago. Unasked he came out with virtually the same story.

It turns out he was the instructor of the student we wanted to chop. It was he who trailled the student on one of his solo sorties.

If we were sure the student was doomed, we were wrong in so far as that my friend believes he retired as a 747 captain. We still think he should have been chopped.

Maybe, as we finally recommended, his RAF career was always as a co-pilot. Otherwise his latent irresponsibility was an unnecessary risk to the Service.

[brakedwell]

Ternhill 1956. Nobody on our Piston Provost course of 18 was scrubbed, but I do remember a very young student on a couple of courses after us going out with a bang! He lost his virginity to the very attractive daughter of a wing commander during a Saturday night party at her dad’s married quarter. Rumour has it he was walking round in a daze on Sunday and had not fully recovered before he set off on a solo aerobatics flight on Monday morning. Somewhere south of the Wirral he became “uncertain of his position” and called for a bearing from Ternhill, then set off 180 degrees in the wrong direction. He lost radio contact then ran out of fuel north of Liverpool and carried out a successful forced landing in a field surrounded by houses. Unfortunately he managed to hit the only telegraph pole in the field during the roll out. A fire engine on it’s way to the crash scene overturned while the intrepid aviator was guarding the wreckage from a local bobby, who had arrived on a bike. Young PD was chopped on his return to Ternhill and was remustered as an air trafficker.

[Danny42C]

brakedwell (#63)
and called for a bearing from Ternhill, then set off 180 degrees in the wrong direction.
Put the QTE on his compass and flew it, I reckon. Happened before, it'll happen again.
Must have caused him a wry smile when he got into ATC and was in front of a CR/DF tube !