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View Full Version : "ATC gave taxi permission, therefore we (the airline) are not responsible.."


simfly
23rd Jul 2018, 14:43
Suggestions for dimplomatic response please...
A friend of mine was severely delayed (9 hours) on a flight from the UK after the aircraft he was to fly on was involved in a slight ground collision with another aircraft. After applying for compensation, he received the following reply from the airline stating:-

"We would like to inform you that it was not a mistake or action of XXXX (airline) that led to the collision with another aircraft because the captain of the aircraft had received permission to taxi the aircraft to the runway, and captain followed permission given to him buy the authorities. The captain and aircraft could not foresee that there is an object on its way to the runway that could lead to the damages of the aircraft".

As far as I was aware, it is totally the pilots responsibility to avoid collisions on the ground?!?!

Thanks in advance.

Simfly

Daysleeper
23rd Jul 2018, 15:19
well that's a bull response. There is probably a lot more information out there which might help craft an appropriate response, like what flight, what airline etc etc. In short: Yes the commander is always responsible, (doesn't mean it's his or her fault but there we go). You could point them at the Standard European Rules of the Air which state:



CHAPTER 2

Avoidance of collisions

Nothing in this Regulation shall relieve the pilot-in-command of an aircraft from the responsibility of taking such action, including collision avoidance manoeuvres based on resolution advisories provided by ACAS equipment, as will best avert collision.




Assuming this is about EU compensation for delay payments there rules are not that "nothing" should go wrong it's about what would be exceptional and the detail is important. So a wing-tip ding to an operator at their home hub, where it would be reasonable to expect them to have maintenance and a spare aircraft, will be treated differently to one at an outstation.

simfly
23rd Jul 2018, 15:33
Thanks Daysleeper. In this case, I believe it was kind of an outstation for the airline involved. They had just recently started flying from the UK airport and as far as I am aware do not have a "base" there.

Daysleeper
23rd Jul 2018, 15:49
I'd suggest get as much info as you can with timings and, if possible, what was said when by who. Even if there is no compensation due the airline is still responsible for care and welfare, often not done well or at all frankly.

Also , and I'm not an expert so my advice is worth what you paid for it...

It's arrival time not departure that counts... can't see anyone making up a 9 hour departure delay but if by some miracle they reduced the arrival delay to under 3 (or 4) hours then that's what's important.

There is no definitive list of what "extraordinary circumstances" are. The key line is "which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken."

However, the courts have been taking a very pro-consumer line and the airline is always free to sue ATC to recover damages. Indeed that maybe a standard to consider: do you think given what the rules of the air say and the traditions, custom and practice of the industry that if the airline was to sue the air traffic provider then they would win...I suspect not. If you're friend can't be bothered with the effort then there are a host of claims companies out there that will look at this for a (no win no fee) percentage of the compensation if they win.

Saintsman
24th Jul 2018, 19:59
Delaying tactics. A made up excuse in the hope that you will go away.

I imagine a follow up letter (with Daysleeper's observation) will be more fruitful, but sometimes you have to be persistent and further correspondence may be required.

PAXboy
24th Jul 2018, 20:50
See if you can find any items from local newspapers of the airport - any language - it all builds up the picture. This has to be one of the nastiest excuses, putting the blame on someone else.

"The traffic light turned green and I drove forward. I did not need to look left or right to see if another vehicle was ignoring the light, or if an emergency vehicle was approaching. The green light was on and so what happened next was not my fault."

MathFox
25th Jul 2018, 19:33
I also would recommend trying to find out what caused the accident and which of the parties should be held responsible. Chances are that this collision would be seen as "extraordinary circumstance" by a judge and that the airline had no reasonable measures to reduce the delay caused by it any further than they did. Chances to get compensation are better if a fault by the airline (pilots) caused the collision.

DaveReidUK
25th Jul 2018, 21:30
I also would recommend trying to find out what caused the accident and which of the parties should be held responsible. Chances are that this collision would be seen as "extraordinary circumstance" by a judge and that the airline had no reasonable measures to reduce the delay caused by it any further than they did. Chances to get compensation are better if a fault by the airline (pilots) caused the collision.

Good luck with that.

A minor ground collision in the UK, for example, is unlikely to merit an AAIB investigation and report and even if it did, concepts like blame and fault do not form part of the findings.

rationalfunctions
26th Jul 2018, 04:24
As a matter of last resort there's always the consumer rage sections of the broadsheets - if they find your situation interesting enough they do the hard work for you and often get results. You have nothing to lose...