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drunk_pilot
10th Jul 2018, 21:49
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jazz-operated-damaged-aircraft-after-2017-hard-landi-450086/

5.7G! :ooh:

Jet Jockey A4
11th Jul 2018, 00:31
So it is a pretty darn solid aircraft if the gears did not fold under such an impact and then flew again without further incidents.

cappt
11th Jul 2018, 02:58
Windshear, good answer.

ACMS
11th Jul 2018, 06:20
The Pilots didnít know it was a hard landing!!
5.7G would have been a big hit. If they thought it was normal Iíd hate to have been their pax on all other flights......

Mad (Flt) Scientist
11th Jul 2018, 16:20
An instantaneous acceleration of 5.7G which was a pure peak might well not be felt by a human as that high, depending on the shape of the peak. The 5/7G was calculated from system characteristics and not from recorded accelerometer data
The calculated theoretical vertical load that would have been instantaneously generated when the landing gear bottomed out was at least 5.7g, which exceeded the design criteria for the landing gear

gwillie
11th Jul 2018, 17:08
The pilots therefore conducted a visual inspection of the aircraft themselves, found nothing abnormal, and decided to operate the return flight, landing uneventfully back in Montreal.An inspection at Montreal, however, revealed the Toronto landing...caused buckling of the aircraft's skin below the windows on the right side and damaged the right-side landing gear.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/jazz-operated-damaged-aircraft-after-2017-hard-landi-450086/


WHAT?????????? How the :mad: could this be????????????
.

underfire
11th Jul 2018, 17:34
That force "exceeded the design criteria for the landing gear" and triggered an "inertia switch" designed to activate when subjected to a force of 5.5g, says the TSB.
That switch cuts power to the flight data and cockpit voice recorders, ensuring those recorders do not erase data after a crash, the TSB says.
The pilots received a warning in the cockpit of a problem with the flight recorder.

So, not only a damaged ac, the FDR and CVR were not working on the flight?

AC now has something similar...A switch cuts power to the flight data and cockpit voice recorders, ensuring those recorders do not erase data after a landing....

PAXboy
11th Jul 2018, 19:34
From flight global report:
Jazz h as provided additional training to help crews recognise hard landings ...

Reduce the thickness of the flight crew's seat cushion?
coat / hat.

RexBanner
12th Jul 2018, 10:04
Standard q400 landing felt about 5Gs. Maybe only slightly firm :)

Mad (Flt) Scientist
12th Jul 2018, 16:19
@gwillie
It's possible that the gear damage was not evident to a visual inspection, especially by pilots rather than a LG specialist, and it could be they were concentrating on the gear etc - looking for evidence of a hard landing - and never really looked at the fuselage skin - which, after all, no-one around the aircraft had noticed, so it may not have been especially evident - the departure was at or after dark, so the lighting may not have been great.

underfire
12th Jul 2018, 16:23
well, the Q400 may have what seems to be typical hard landings, but FFS, they bent the tube.....

Martin_123
14th Jul 2018, 12:56
is anybody even considering a potential sensor problem? I fly Q400 and in our company we get access to FDM data, I've had 1.7G recorded on super smooth landings, some of the readings make us puzzled more often than I would like to admit. Not to be the devils advocate, but if these guys thought it was ok to carry on, I believe them more than I believe that sensor output

sorry, I didn't read the report properly, nothing to see here, move along

Blind Squirrel
14th Jul 2018, 13:21
is anybody even considering a potential sensor problem?

Well, if the fuselage is visibly squished afterwards, I'm guessing the sensors had the right of it...

underfire
14th Jul 2018, 14:22
is anybody even considering a potential sensor problem?
Did you read the report?
First off, they bent the tube. (and broke the landing gear) They hit hard enough to bend the ac, and didnt realize a difference?
Second, other than the crash sensor shutting down the FDR/CVR, there is no real time indicator of the G force avail to the drivers.

There was most certainly a problem with the sensors, both of them in the front seats.

er340790
14th Jul 2018, 18:00
"Jazz has provided additional training to help crews recognise hard landings."

Read 'recognise' as a Corporate euphemism for REPORT(!!!)

Martin_123
14th Jul 2018, 19:05
Did you read the report?
First off, they bent the tube. (and broke the landing gear) They hit hard enough to bend the ac, and didnt realize a difference?
Second, other than the crash sensor shutting down the FDR/CVR, there is no real time indicator of the G force avail to the drivers.

There was most certainly a problem with the sensors, both of them in the front seats.

sorry, I didn't, long week behind me, disregard my comment

vickers vanguard
18th Jul 2018, 07:33
I personally looked at the aircraft a couple of days later, when it was brought in the hangar for repair.....extremely hard to see any damage. The skin wrinkles on the rh side..unless you looked at them from the right angle with the right background light, you donít see it.

DaveReidUK
18th Jul 2018, 08:28
I personally looked at the aircraft a couple of days later, when it was brought in the hangar for repair.....extremely hard to see any damage. The skin wrinkles on the rh side..unless you looked at them from the right angle with the right background light, you donít see it.

Aircraft appears to have returned to service 4 months after the event ...

er340790
19th Jul 2018, 15:42
Aircraft appears to have returned to service 4 months after the event ...

Considerably longer than it takes to build one from scratch, then. ;) :eek: