PDA

View Full Version : Security Inconsistencies


5711N0205W
4th Jul 2018, 20:11
Not a new topic I know, surely inside one country the standards should be the same.

I had the misfortune to transit through Manchester today, I have never seen so many rejected bags at the scanners in any airport worldwide. One of the biggest elements contributing seemed to be the non removal of smaller Kindle sized devices triggering a rejection, not something that seems to bother any other airport I have been in over the last 12 months. There were many bewildered people who didn’t understand what they had done wrong.

The airport itself isn’t a shining example of progress and good design, use of space, not something that can be fixed quickly or without considerable investment, may be better to start again elsewhere and just bulldoze that one..

DaveReidUK
4th Jul 2018, 22:13
Could it be, rather, that the security standards are the same, it's just that they haven't been adjusted for the average Manchester passenger. :O

PAXboy
5th Jul 2018, 00:29
The request,: Please remove laptops, means all computing devices. A tablet or E reader (Kindle) is a computer and will cause a bag to be selected for hand search.

It may be that the request has to be more detailed

James 1077
5th Jul 2018, 01:18
The request,: Please remove laptops, means all computing devices. A tablet or E reader (Kindle) is a computer and will cause a bag to be selected for hand search.

It may be that the request has to be more detailed

Most places I travel to say "remove large electronic devices". iPads and kindles are fine to stay in the bag, provided that you only have one of them (more than one and you can't see it properly on the screen).

The problem is a total lack of consistency worldwide; you can't complain about SLF not knowing the rules and therefore not being prepared when the rules change from airport to airport, country to country, and even time to time. In the case of the latter, for example, the last time my wife and kids travelled through LAX they had everything ready and out - only to be told to put everything back in their bags, put their tops and belts back on and just walk through the scanner even when it beeped as it was "Happy Hour"!

Load Toad
5th Jul 2018, 03:38
It's a pain in the aris...some places ask me to remove my belt, others my shoes and some both (BKK). Some don't ask me to remove either. Some swab the computer for residues, some don't, some ask me to switch the computer on, some just ask to put the 'puter through the x-ray by itself...some want all liquids in a clear bag, some will accept say a gel rather than a liquid, some places when you go through the security at the gate itself reject toothpaste for example that goes through the earlier check okay or you actually bought in the airport (airside).

So when SLF turn up at an unfamiliar security it's no surprise so many mistakes are made leading to frustration and delay - as I've had at several airports. We know security is important but some consistency would help.


...

rationalfunctions
5th Jul 2018, 05:54
Unfortunately inconsistencies are the nature of the game; requirements differ between countries, and within countries airports have different equipment (tech and policy evolves faster than the lifecycle of these expensive machines).

For real frustration try the BA flight out of NBO - when I last did it there were 4 security screening checks for SLF; screening at entry to building, screening to airside, screening at gate (airport), screening at gate (BA).
Or Kota Kinabalu, where they inexplicably mix screened departing pax with arrival pax and then have to rescreen everyone before they go down to gate :ugh:

rcsa
5th Jul 2018, 08:07
For real frustration try the BA flight out of NBO - when I last did it there were 4 security screening checks for SLF; screening at entry to building, screening to airside, screening at gate (airport), screening at gate (BA).


There are eight or nine active, capable, and determined insurgent/jihadi groups operating within the Nairobi route matrix in Africa alone. Since BA cut their African routes to the bone NBO is a popular transit hub from African countries to the UK.

'For real frustration', try having your flight blown out of the sky.

rationalfunctions
5th Jul 2018, 09:09
There are eight or nine active, capable, and determined insurgent/jihadi groups operating within the Nairobi route matrix in Africa alone. Since BA cut their African routes to the bone NBO is a popular transit hub from African countries to the UK.

'For real frustration', try having your flight blown out of the sky.

I'm not questioning the necessity - I certainly felt more comfortable having the checks there and fully understand BA having an independent security check. I'm just putting the inconvenience of inconsistent screening procedures at MAN into perspective against other regions.

WHBM
5th Jul 2018, 09:28
There is nowadays a vast self-justified security "policy" industry, let alone the actual measures, with policy advisers, policy managers, you name it. Inevitably, working separately, they all come up with different standards, different manuals, different training, etc.

It was a London - Dublin day return a few years ago where on the two legs I got "leave your laptop in its bag, don't hold everyone behind you up taking it out by fiddling to take it out" and "take your laptop out of its bag, can't stay in there, don't hold everyone behind you up by leaving it in there". Can't remember which way round the two contradictory policies were.

Hotel Tango
5th Jul 2018, 09:43
From my experience standards can be inconsistent at the same airport in the same country. My biggest commute is between Düsseldorf and Birmingham. I travel with the same bag, same minimal contents and the same equipment (which includes a camera and a rather large lens) on every flight. Requirements as to whether that lens should be separated from the bag have never been consistent either at BHX or DUS. I always ask. One time it's yes and another it's no, not necessary. Basically it comes down to the whim of the security person on the day.

rcsa
5th Jul 2018, 10:24
Sorry for stating the obvious, gents, but security isn't there for the convenience of passengers. If that was the primary objective, there wouldn't be any security at all, you'd just breeze straight through from taxi to plane and be on your way. The different standards from airport to airport, day to day, line to line is surely because there is no common standard. But that has the effect of making it very hard to plan an attack, which is the real point of security. No one thinks that any individual security officer will stop an individual attack, but the chaotic and unpredictable totality of the process makes if very hard to plan an attack with any degree of certainty.

As noted, this is a statement of the obvious, and I'm sure everyone gets it. And I know there's a huge global industry that depends on keeping everyone nervous. I guess my own feeling (as a 3 x a month long haul pax to lots of strange places) is that if we want to get home in one piece, we just have to smile more and grumble less, and accept that this is the time we live in.

RevMan2
5th Jul 2018, 10:33
Security at MAN is a pain. Ms RM2's MacBook Air went through the scanner, FOUR TIMES, naturally always ending up at the back of the queue of rejects from passengers processed later. (If you suggest process improvements i.e. re-scans could perhaps be prioritised, you get a bollocking that draws blood...) The first 2 times because "the barcode on the tray doesn't work" (and it would have gone through in the same tray a THIRD time had I not pointed out Einstein's words on insanity). On the 3rd attempt, someone came up with the idea that "it's too light" and bunged something weighted in for the (successful) 4th attempt.

Mad....

Davef68
5th Jul 2018, 12:41
Most places I travel to say "remove large electronic devices". iPads and kindles are fine to stay in the bag, provided that you only have one of them (more than one and you can't see it properly on the screen).


UK Airports for the last couple of years the instruction has always to take out all laptops, Ipads etc and Kindles. I can't think on one it hasn't been the practice (probably 15 or 16 airports, from Shetland to Heathrow)

tescoapp
5th Jul 2018, 13:13
If it was up to the security types the requirements would change on a random requirements/rotation some days strict as hell other days next to nothing.

The whole point is they don't want any rules or procedures to be predictable or known.

The UK is a bit special anyway because it instigates tighter requirements than required. Airports have to show compliance with the minimum standard, there is nothing stopping them going further than the minimum requirement.

Manchester is a pain in the bum, huge security empire and it seems to be pretty much untouchable. There is huge gapping holes in what they do and a lot of things rely on people following the rules (how many people up to no good follow the rules?)

BTW the EU base rule is anything with a larger screen than 6" needs to be separate. But there is nothing wrong or illegal for an airport to insist that all devices need to be separated or for that matter everyone is required to take their shoes and belts off.

The grunts on ground are videoed and if they don't enforce the local rules they get the sack. So I do actually have some sympathy with them. There are of course nasty individuals with huge chips on their shoulders which cause major grief enforcing said rules. And there are nice people doing a job and make the process as painless as possible and a full range in between which may float between the extremes. Just like the people they are dealing with.

the only thing you can do is avoid the place if you can. I do know pilots that have changed jobs just to get away from MAN. Dealing with an engine failure was less stress than getting from the car to the aircraft.

TLDNMCL
18th Jul 2018, 20:34
Surely it is easier to expect shoes/ belt/ watch/ other jewellery off without waiting to be asked and just do it in or porior to joining the queue as a matter of course? Same goes for jackets, coats electronic gadgets and fluids. I can understand first time or very infrequent travellers being confused, but so many people grumbling here are clearly not in that bracket!

James 1077
18th Jul 2018, 21:06
Surely it is easier to expect shoes/ belt/ watch/ other jewellery off without waiting to be asked and just do it in or porior to joining the queue as a matter of course? Same goes for jackets, coats electronic gadgets and fluids. I can understand first time or very infrequent travellers being confused, but so many people grumbling here are clearly not in that bracket!

Except for when you get shouted at for taking shoes and belts off as it causes congestion at the other side of the scanner.

bbrown1664
19th Jul 2018, 09:28
Inconsistencies, whilst aggravating for us, actually provide for better security as you never know what is going to be checked.
Security could check everything every time and cause massive delays which we would like to avoid. By being a bit random between lanes in the same airport let alone between airports and countries means you never know what will be checked.

Unfortunately the days of enjoyable air travel are long gone and the terrorist have achieved their goal of causing disruption.

WHBM
19th Jul 2018, 15:02
Inconsistencies, whilst aggravating for us, actually provide for better security as you never know what is going to be checked.
is all very well were it not for
Except for when you get shouted at for taking shoes and belts off as it causes congestion at the other side of the scanner.
I don't mind such different procedures, provided that the security staff don't start their own aggression against me when I somehow have not realised what is required, today, at this particular point. And it's not nearly as much varying procedures for this randomness, as different ones expected at different airports.

About the one consistency found pretty much everywhere is 7 sets of checkpoint equipment installed, but only 3 staffed. And when this finally causes much criticism, the answer is commonly - to install more equipment. Because on the airport agreeing the budget for it the equipment salesman got there first.

PAXboy
19th Jul 2018, 17:10
Well said WHBM. It is always the staffing. If they paid for more staff, then the staff would not be pressured. But we all know the meaning of the word 'efficiency' ... :ugh:

rog747
19th Jul 2018, 18:58
go from lands end to the scilly isles st marys - fab no security and a twotter flight over the islands

meleagertoo
21st Jul 2018, 07:38
Surely it is easier to expect shoes/ belt/ watch/ other jewellery off without waiting to be asked and just do it in or porior to joining the queue as a matter of course?

They'd speed things up immeasurably if underwired bras were included in that too!

PAXboy
23rd Jul 2018, 01:29
The Guardian 22nd July.

CT scanners on trial at Heathrow could bring end to liquids ban (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/22/ct-scanners-heathrow-trial-could-end-liquids-ban)

The Sleeping Pax
24th Jul 2018, 06:56
go from lands end to the scilly isles st marys - fab no security and a twotter flight over the islands

No such place as the Scilly Isles. Isles of Scilly or Scilly is fine but the Scillonians go ape if you say it as you did.

Been travelling 39 years with God knows how many flights from God knows how many airports. No two airports are ever the same when it comes to security. I find that after check in, I organise myself as follows. Empty all pockets of all metallic objects. Put in travelling holdall. Take off watch. Switch off mobile and put in travel holdall. Open section of holdall with computer inside and sit the laptop vertically. Go to security, note what others are doing re: Shoes and belts and follow suit. When it's my turn, place computer in try, put shoes in separate tray and if required put in belt. put travel bag on belt to be x-rayed. Go through personal detector, smile when it doesn't go ping, go to collect my belongings - re-dress belt and shoes, replace computer in travel bag and again smile at the security boys and girls.

Waking away to immigration, privately curse and swear that if I was ever to meet any of the terrorist bastards who have made this routine necessary then I'll make sure that they will be emasculated and will be singing like an insipient soprano for the rest of his puff.

rog747
24th Jul 2018, 07:19
No such place as the Scilly Isles. Isles of Scilly or Scilly is fine but the Scillonians go ape if you say it as you did.

Been travelling 39 years with God knows how many flights from God knows how many airports. No two airports are ever the same when it comes to security. I find that after check in, I organise myself as follows. Empty all pockets of all metallic objects. Put in travelling holdall. Take off watch. Switch off mobile and put in travel holdall. Open section of holdall with computer inside and sit the laptop vertically. Go to security, note what others are doing re: Shoes and belts and follow suit. When it's my turn, place computer in try, put shoes in separate tray and if required put in belt. put travel bag on belt to be x-rayed. Go through personal detector, smile when it doesn't go ping, go to collect my belongings - re-dress belt and shoes, replace computer in travel bag and again smile at the security boys and girls.

Waking away to immigration, privately curse and swear that if I was ever to meet any of the terrorist bastards who have made this routine necessary then I'll make sure that they will be emasculated and will be singing like an insipient soprano for the rest of his puff.


ah yes indeed my serious error! its Scilly