The AN/FPN-36 Quad Radar

[gcafinal]

Does anyone out there have any old manuals or photographs of the AN-FPN 36 Quad Radar? This was used extensively by the RAAF in the 1970s-1980s.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/601x463/fpn36_quad_radar_e77ec43b707e547c3e15ad5b557cb6eda403d70a.jp g

FPN36 Quad radar

[mgahan]

Check with COSATC at ESL. There is a real one (not working!) outside the school and from memory we had some manuals in the trophy case.

quad - how the memories flood back. I was the GCA instructor when the replacement was implemented and for several courses the students did not need to manipulate those 72 "hard to find between your legs in the dark" controls. Don't know what I had done to upset them but DPO send me an all female course. We had a very detailed discussion before the practical stage of the course and I managed to stay out of jail - to this day at least.

I'll put a note into the AMATCA network for you ans see what comes up - in the way of pictures etc!

MJG

[gcafinal]

mgahan thank you for your speedy response much appreciated. I will contact the office you suggested. Cheers.

[TBM-Legend]

Great piece of kit and I operated that in addition to the naval sister AN/SPN35 on the war canoe HMAS Melbourne. Much fun doing CCA's when the ship is turning and not on a fixed heading until finals...

[Captain Dart]

You must have talked me down onto the ‘boat’ once or twice (80/81?). Also much fun being talked down to touchdown on gloopy days on ‘staffies’ at Pearce. Ironically my last GCAs were into old Nagoya airport, Japan, in an airline A330, where they were still on offer by the military controllers. Apparently the blip from the widebody got too big near minimums, which was why they always told us to go visual slightly earlier.

I also have a Bob Stevens cartoon: GCA controller in a faint on the floor while his buddy says, ‘Some pilot actually thanked him for a good run’.

I miss the good ole GCA. ‘Look ahead and crash visually’.

[MPN11]

Apparently the blip from the widebody got too big near minimums, which was why they always told us to go visual slightly earlier.
Ah, the joys of playing with the controls on GCA! On the old SLA-3C PAR, you could wind back on the gain control so that a VC-10 was reduced to 3 blips as it approached minimums ... nose, wings and tail.

[TBM-Legend]

Don't forget "Aston's Circus" AN/CPN4 at Williamtown. Runway change meant hitch up the wagons and like the circus head down to the other end. [John Ashton by the way was a controller at Willi...]

[mgahan]

Ah, the joys of playing with the controls on GCA! On the old SLA-3C PAR, you could wind back on the gain control so that a VC-10 was reduced to 3 blips as it approached minimums ... nose, wings and tail.
Yes, I remember the first QF Charter B747 arriving at Butterworth and seeing it on the SLA-3C with the multiple paints.

At Willy we used to joke that the only way we handled the mass recoveries was to turn off the SSR and wind back the Primary to get a skinny 3 miles!

And the Boggies Bay (15) on the CPN/4 and having to open the door slightly to call "touch down" for Alfie Harrison at Amberley. as well as being the duty "wind in the CPs" controller.

MJG

[Tengah6871]

I was an ATCO at RAF Tengah 68-71 and was impressed by the way that Butterworth-based 3 Sqn and 75 Sqn RAAF (Mirage lll) would recover as a pair 'in trail' so that the controller only talked-down the leader and the No 2 dutifully followed him on his AI radar. When I was detached to RAAF Darwin (before the hurricane) to support 74 Sqn (Lightning F6), I discovered why. The Quad radar could be operated as precision radar (GCA) or search radar - but not both at the same time, so when the leader of a pair was on talkdown, his No 2 was out of radar contact and got no help with navigation towards the centreline. Good thing the sun was shining - Darwin was fun......

[MPN11]

As opposed to Trail GCAs using SLA-3C PAR, where the Mirage AI was a harmonic of the GCA and completely screwed the display!!

The Mirage guys had some great techniques, though. I was in Local when they recovered 32+2 from a flypast at KL... 4-ships all spacing themselves on AI, including 1-mile trail downwind after the break. “Magpie 18, clear to land in turn, 7 ahead and 6 on ... “ <phew>

[MPN11]

Tengah6781 ... got you!

CJW, I presume? :)

[Tengah6871]

Good call...... Who else would have been controlling 74 at Darwin in 1969?
Talking of mass-Mirage flypasts: Probably after your time, but EPB once cancelled the dawn flypast at Kranji Cemetery on ANZAC Day because wx was sh*t. Aussie AVM was not happy.
Aussies, kiwis and poms at Tengah - great days.....
Liked your pic of OC 20 and OC FW in the bar. Who was the prat with the pipe in the background.........

[TBM-Legend]

You must have talked me down onto the ‘boat’ once or twice (80/81?)

Yes I was SATCO on the canoe in 1980. Many a fun CCA's and mental games vectoring with the carrier on a heading that was not the final bearing and correcting as we turned sometime through 270 degrees at 2am with afloat version called AN/SPN35

[NutLoose]

I don't know if these guys an help out
VMARS (http://www.vmarsmanuals.co.uk/archive/files_index.htm)

[radarboy]

Apologies for jumping into this thread, but I have a similar request for manuals and photos of PAR, but for Gilfillan Bros. AN/CPN-4 and AN/MPN-11 (or similar) please? I've searched high and low and am asking anyone, anywhere!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1051x587/west_20malling_2057b_20gca_f22ebb68c101740f5138fbb1302f9e916 1238694.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8262473006_e09762abb4_c.jpg

Does anyone know of surviving examples around the world (other than the CPN-4 at the USAF Museum, or the one at the USN Museum which was scrapped a few years ago)?

I was fortunate enough to acquire one Gilfillan Bros. manual (see below), but does anyone have access to other paperwork?

Many thanks for listening!

Andy


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7832/44751864370_a96de40efc_z.jpg https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4898/31628585667_ed55e72818_b.jpg

[MPN11]

The WWW is sadly bereft of much imagery of MPN11/CPN4. I have a few [a very few] but nothing really meaningful ... mainly exterior shots and a couple of interiors. No idea why that should be such a thin resource.

As you might guess from my ID here, I spent a while talking from the Truck to those fly-boys. I would love an old copy of AP. 3357 - Manual of GCA which still covered The Beast! :)

[TBM-Legend]

Many hours doing GCA's in the CPN-4 'circus' at Williamtown...

[radarboy]

The WWW is sadly bereft of much imagery of MPN11/CPN4. I have a few [a very few] but nothing really meaningful ... mainly exterior shots and a couple of interiors. No idea why that should be such a thin resource.

As you might guess from my ID here, I spent a while talking from the Truck to those fly-boys. I would love an old copy of AP. 3357 - Manual of GCA which still covered The Beast! :)

I think your alias is brilliant!

Many thanks for your replies. Ideally I'd like to track down some general arrangement drawings, especially scaled/dimensioned... or find a surviving example of the real thing!

[wub]

I spent two years struggling to keep Chivenor’s MPN-11 serviceable but have no documents or photos I’m afraid

[NutLoose]

Took me about 30 seconds to find this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUGE-May-1951-RADAR-SET-AN-CPN-4-Gilfillan-Bros-Handbook-Maintenance-RESTRICTED-/311806548251

[MPN11]

All I have to offer is these 3 MPN-11 interior photos ... sources not known, so apologies for re-posting them. But I can still smell the interior in my mind!! :)

http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/EquipmentMPN11Bay15Talkdown-1.jpg

https://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/CPN4_3.gif

https://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm468/atco5473/PPRuNe%20ATC/mpn11_operating_bay_02_250pix.jpg

[RCAF Tech]

We had two FPN-36 radars operating at Canadian Forces Base Shearwater (across the harbour from Halifax, NS) as recently as 2008. I'm pretty sure they were replaced with something more modern since then, but I've been out of the military since 2011 and now work for National Defence as a civilian electronics technologist for the Royal Canadian Navy. I will check the dark corners of my basement; I'm pretty sure I still have my set of fold-out schematic drawings and student guide for the Quad from when I took the maintenance course in Trenton in the mid 1990's.

It was a tough old piece of kit, more washing machine than radar...

[Jerry Seitz]

We had two FPN-36 radars operating at Canadian Forces Base Shearwater (across the harbour from Halifax, NS) as recently as 2008. I'm pretty sure they were replaced with something more modern since then, but I've been out of the military since 2011 and now work for National Defence as a civilian electronics technologist for the Royal Canadian Navy. I will check the dark corners of my basement; I'm pretty sure I still have my set of fold-out schematic drawings and student guide for the Quad from when I took the maintenance course in Trenton in the mid 1990's.

It was a tough old piece of kit, more washing machine than radar...

i took my training on the CPN4/MPN11 in Clinton Ontario in 1965 but worked mainly on the Quad Radar. We had a mobile airfield in Trenton Ontario with Two Quad Radars, a mobile Tower with radio techs, a mobile TACAN, mobile lighting for a 10000 ft runway and diesel generators to run everything. Lots of fun loading everything on Hercules Aircraft for deployment. Did that from 73 to 77. Retired in 86. Oh what a life.

[radarboy]

I'm pretty sure I still have my set of fold-out schematic drawings and student guide for the Quad

Those both sound fantastic! I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Many thanks.

[radarboy]

I spent two years struggling to keep Chivenor’s MPN-11 serviceable but have no documents or photos I’m afraid

I'd be interested to know which years those were please?

I'd also like to know when the MPN-11 arrived at Chivenor and when it was finally removed?

[radarboy]

A while back (perhaps 2 years ago now) I heard that the National Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola, Florida, did have an old MPN-11 kept in outdoor storage... but it was subsequently scrapped! :sad: I also understand it wasn't recorded (i.e. preservation by record) beforehand, which if correct is a travesty!

[MPN11]

That is so sad. It seems as though the MPN-11/CPN-4 has been expunged from history deliberately!

I’m still here, though! 😎

[radarboy]

That is so sad. It seems as though the MPN-11/CPN-4 has been expunged from history deliberately!

I’m still here, though! 😎

Sad indeed... When I heard one has been preserved I was elated (and started planning a trip to Florida) , but was absolutely GUTTED beyond believe when I was told I was too late!!!! :sad: :mad: A local contact of mine kindly went there in person to ask.

I'm glad you're still there though MPN11! :ok: Any joy finding Air Publications (AP) since you last posted here???

[radarboy]

Here is it outside the museum in 2012, behind the tail of the TA-4J. It has a very distinctive shadow! The dish is seen detached and resting on the lower trailer.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1242/zpqtvbb_jpeg_e7239a146f049c0a524cecf168777ed3679db476.jpg

[MPN11]

I'm glad you're still there though MPN11! :ok: Any joy finding Air Publications (AP) since you last posted here???Nothing to report, sadly.

[wub]

I'd be interested to know which years those were please?

I'd also like to know when the MPN-11 arrived at Chivenor and when it was finally removed?

I don’t know when the radar was installed at Chivenor but I worked on it from 1972 to 1974.When the station closed and most people moved to Brawdy, I stayed and helped decommission the beast. This involved soaking almost everything on the trailer with WD-40 to loosen moving parts that had not moved in years. There were hundreds of small panels that had to be refitted to cover spaces left by removed equipment. The RN at Yeovilton, or possibly Lee-on Solent had an MPN-11 and we were visited by their radar techs who took a lot of spares away. The US wanted the radar back and in, I think August 1974 we removed it from its turntable, using a Scammell Wrecker truck, which was achieved with more brute force than finesse.

[KI5GDH]

Ok, I'll have to dig into my old archives but I know I kept my old manuals and schematics of the two QUADS I worked on at NAS Miramar from 1978 to 1980. I also worked on the FPN-52 and might have those too. I went to school on the CPN-4/TPX-42 and I know I kept all my school materials. It could take some searching so if there is still interest, email me at my account email address and I'll start digging.

Ken Long
Albuquerque, NM - USA

[NutLoose]

See bottom of thread

Radschool Association Magazine - Vol 24 (http://www.austradesecure.com/radschool/Vol24/Page17.htm)

[gcafinal]

I have to report significant frustration since my last post in 2018, after writing numerous letters to all sorts of people, agencies, schools, military organisations and radar manufacturers. I have achieved absolutely nothing so far, after 6 years of hunting ! Surely someone out there must have a manual and a copy of the operating procedures ?? So here I am again, giving it another try! Cheers...

[Gne]

I'll check with some techo mates and the son's FIL (who was a groundie).

Gne

[gcafinal]

Thank you Gne. I appreciate your response even if you have the same "nothing" luck as me! I find it hard to believe that military operators of the AN/FPN-36 did not keep any documentation (from the responses I received anyway), even though examples of the equipment are on view in some museums.