Russian panel stencils - the myth ?

[Fonsini]

An old retired AF maintenance tech told me a story recently of a tour he took around the museum at Nellis a few years after he retired from the service. As the tour guide showed them around the Russian cold war jets they had on display my buddy commented about how thorough USAF had been to add English stencilling under the Russian stencils on the aircraft access panels. The tour guide stopped and proceeded to tell the assembled group of old vets that USAF had not added the English text, it was put there by the Russians as it was part of their war plan to operate from captured bases in the west and use our aircraft technicians as slave labor.

This always struck me as a myth intended to make a cool story - anyone know if there is any truth to it?

[MPN11]

Personal view? hahahahahahaha :D

[Timelord]

The examples in the museum were export variants obtain from countries like Egypt, and so had stencils in English as a “lingua Franca”

[Fonsini]

The examples in the museum were export variants obtain from countries like Egypt, and so had stencils in English as a “lingua Franca”

That makes a lot more sense.

[Pontius Navigator]

But they were capable of using NATO connections for fuel.

[Fonsini]

That was mentioned as well Pontius, apparently with a connection adapter that was widely available ?

[WhatsaLizad?]

Slave labor line aircraft techs makes about as much sense as slave labor cooking your food in the kitchen.

[NutLoose]

Yup, a little knowledge would ensure a one way trip for the said aircraft, oxygen in tyres, nuts and bolts down intakes, pipes loosened, seat oxygen serviced with nitrogen, seats disconnected, fuel contaminated... The list goes on.. I read an article on FW190 deliveries with slave labour built engines, quite a few strangely never made it

Wasn't the old SLR musket incapable of firing Russain ammo, but the AK was capable of using ours?

[Transall]

Wasn't the old SLR musket incapable of firing Russain ammo, but the AK was capable of using ours?


Hi,

Ours was 7.62x51 theirs 7.62x39 (well, I think 39 but it was definitely the shorter one).
That x51 and x39 being the length of the cartridge in mm (so, not including the bullet), their chamber would have been shorter.
Jamming our round in there would not have gone well.
Very likely we could have chambered their rounds.

Best regards, T.

[air pig]

That was mentioned as well Pontius, apparently with a connection adapter that was widely available ?

Were not some of the weapon shackels etc a common fit?

[Pontius Navigator]

Were not some of the weapon shackels etc a common fit?
I think they were but that memory is faint.

Not faint however is what my boss said about WE177. He reckoned about 30 minutes to break the electronics. I guess Judy rigging the control box from a Bucc or Jag would have been easy too.

[A_Van]

..... it was put there by the Russians as it was part of their war plan to operate from captured bases in the west and use our aircraft technicians as slave labor.

This always struck me as a myth intended to make a cool story - anyone know if there is any truth to it?

Sounds like nonsense generated by those brainwashed by Joseph McCarthy.

[Haraka]

IRC their ground power connectors were also NATO compatible. MiG 21 stores attachments were different and not NATO 14 /30 inch compatible .

[Heathrow Harry]

The examples in the museum were export variants obtain from countries like Egypt, and so had stencils in English as a “lingua Franca”



Bill Bryson always said "English is not a purist language, as French aspires to be. English is a language that lurks in dark alleyways and mugs other languages for whatever it can find."

Thus "lingua franca" - a Portuguese term, lifted by the Anglo-Saxons, describing French as a universal language

[hoodie]

Which is why English has le mot juste for every occasion. :ok:

[Less Hair]

In order to make things work even without understanding any stenciled language they had colored positioning dots on every panel opening and on every screw to make sure everything gets set up and locked right. Soviet military conscripts were not necessarily from Russia but maybe from central asia back then.

[Heathrow Harry]

I've come across Russian kit in other fields and they really do think about who is going to be using it and in what conditions. To us it may look like a grossly over sized lever painted an awful colour - but if the guy operating it is in -20C with great big mits on and (as you say) may not be a fluent Russian speaker "always pull the big GREEN one -" has a lot of merit.......

[Pontius Navigator]

In order to make things work even without understanding any stenciled language they had colored positioning dots on every panel opening and on every screw to make sure everything gets set up and locked right.
You mean just like the US?

[Melchett01]

I don’t know about English stencilling, but I’ve always wondered why Russian / Soviet cockpits were all some gopping shade of blue? Is it supposed to be relaxing??!!

[Less Hair]

You mean just like the US?
The US style I remember in the 80s used to be more stencil heavy. Like texts, advices, warnings and cautioning all over the fuselage. Soviets were more colour guided and with red or black marks. Needing almost no lettering at all.

[NutLoose]

In order to make things work even without understanding any stenciled language they had colored positioning dots on every panel opening and on every screw to make sure everything gets set up and locked right.

And the RAF, once upon a time engine disconnect points, hose couplings, control attachments, mounts etc were painted yellow.

[Less Hair]

I know somebody at some german military a/c heavy maintenance facility. They had designed hatches and stuff asymmetric, so you could only mount things in the proper way. At least they had thought so.
It turned out "frontline" personel managed to still put things on with the wrong orientation by using a little violence and ignoring to just look at how misfitting their configuration was.

[NutLoose]

I know somebody at some german military a/c heavy maintenance facility. They had designed hatches and stuff asymmetric, so you could only mount things in the proper way. At least they had thought so.
It turned out "frontline" personel managed to still put things on with the wrong orientation by using a little violence and ignoring to just look at how misfitting their configuration was.

Shades of a US Chinook combining box fitment.

[Pontius Navigator]

I don’t know about English stencilling, but I’ve always wondered why Russian / Soviet cockpits were all some gopping shade of blue? Is it supposed to be relaxing??!!
Agree about gopping. I wonder if there was some Western aircraft that had that colour and they copied it? Apparently when they copied the first B29 it was identical right down to the paint colour and a random hole in the wing. A second aircraft i n side was a different colour and a third was half the first and half the second. But Stalin had said identical so identical it was.

I am not too sure I liked British black crackle.

[Heathrow Harry]

IIRC the Russians did quite a bit of work on cockpit layouts etc. They determined that blue was the best colour to see dials against.

oddly or maybe not ​​Microsoft came to much the same conclusion and some of us will remember that colour as a background on various editions of Windows....

[JPJP]

Hi,

Ours was 7.62x51 theirs 7.62x39 (well, I think 39 but it was definitely the shorter one).
That x51 and x39 being the length of the cartridge in mm (so, not including the bullet), their chamber would have been shorter.
Jamming our round in there would not have gone well.
Very likely we could have chambered their rounds.

Best regards, T.

Indeed - 7.62 short. Whoever called the SLR a blunderbuss hasn’t spent enough quality time with one :) Apart from it’s obvious drawbacks, it was very accurate at a decent range. Apparently the NVA troops preferred to ambush the Americans. The theory being that you’d more likely crawl away from a 5.56 wound. A 7.62 - not so much.

We (the west, NATO) used the 81mm mortar round. They the 82mm. The same story was told about them being able to use our rounds. I’ve never made the attempt, nor met anyone game enough to try. Dropping that round down the tube would have been an act of faith.

[NutLoose]

I didn't call it a blunderbus, I called it a musket. I had plenty of time using them, agreed, accurate with the ability to open ones beer and a good range, something the current musket lacks, which when the opposition out ranges you can be a problem as I believe we found out in recent excursions into the sun.

Just not the ideal weapon in my eyes for airfield defence because if you were shooting at intruders on the airfield any missed rounds would be going into the other squadrons site.

[MPN11]

...Just not the ideal weapon in my eyes for airfield defence because if you were shooting at intruders on the airfield any missed rounds would be going into the other squadrons site.
This was the subject of some debate back in the 70s. The suggestion was that Ground Defence personnel, inside the wire, should be armed with shotguns to minimise the risk of collateral damage. Indeed, this was my chosen subject for my presentation on some course or other back then (OJMC, perhaps?). The average airman would be able to snap-shoot accurately with an SLR at anything much smaller than a hangar door ;)

[radar101]

This was the subject of some debate back in the 70s. The suggestion was that Ground Defence personnel, inside the wire, should be armed with shotguns to minimise the risk of collateral damage. Indeed, this was my chosen subject for my presentation on some course or other back then (OJMC, perhaps?). The average airman would be able to snap-shoot accurately with an SLR at anything much smaller than a hangar door ;)

There were 2 articles in Air Clues arguing the point that pump action shotguns would be a lot better than SLRs - one of the reasons being as MPN11 states. author was a rock Sqn Ldr - with a polish surname.

[Pontius Navigator]

I preferred the SMG. More bullets and a better range than shotgun.

[MPN11]

Nick Jaziniski, I suspect. I knew him through Bisley competitions.

[NutLoose]

The SMG was good for flying seagulls, I dreaded to think the damage I would have caused with an SLR fighting off the bad guys at Brize, there would be fuel everywhere.

[radar101]

The SMG was good for flying seagulls, I dreaded to think the damage I would have caused with an SLR fighting off the bad guys at Brize, there would be fuel everywhere.

Which is why Nick recommended shotguns.

[LowObservable]

Speaking of stenciling the obvious, this is an RPG and the arrow means ROCKET COMES OUT THIS END YOU FOOL

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1227/rpg_14f34ca429bf3ef62dd2b19e27e97f177bbdafa1.jpg

[Haraka]

I remember the picture of Dan Quale holding an RPG 7 launcher back to front.

[JPJP]

I didn't call it a blunderbus, I called it a musket. I had plenty of time using them, agreed, accurate with the ability to open ones beer and a good range, something the current musket lacks, which when the opposition out ranges you can be a problem as I believe we found out in recent excursions into the sun.

Just not the ideal weapon in my eyes for airfield defence because if you were shooting at intruders on the airfield any missed rounds would be going into the other squadrons site.

You’re correct. My mistake. No idea where “blunderbuss” came from :) We transitioning to the Steyr Aug. A shockingly good decision (for a military acquisition). One of the best weapons of its type, and a total shock that a government made such such a sound decision. A remarkable weapon; to the extent that they had to rewrite the marksmanship standards.


I preferred the SMG. More bullets and a better range than shotgun.

Hilarious :E

[JPJP]

Speaking of stenciling the obvious, this is an RPG and the arrow means ROCKET COMES OUT THIS END YOU FOOL

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/2000x1227/rpg_14f34ca429bf3ef62dd2b19e27e97f177bbdafa1.jpg


Yeah, those funny eastern block simpletons ;)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/300x259/830f8a34_9138_4ac6_b70c_76f5372687c7_e46ea161026b8f023966347 e7b29b2cc37fdfeb4.jpeg

[stilton]

I remember the picture of Dan Quale holding an RPG 7 launcher back to front.


Thats ‘Quayle’


If you’re going to make fun of him
check your spelling


Although he never did !

[India Four Two]

JPJP,

I think the warnings on the back of the Claymore are even more amusing!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/740x378/iu_2_e4ec2f51dc777a2bd726778eff84a28db4319004.jpeg

[Haraka]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/330x480/dan_and_rpg7_5a96920daa43339e4db7965b657dcf357c91611b.jpg

That'​​​s Quayle ( :)) holding an RPG 7 launcher. I'll leave you to guess which way round. Also an expert on the spelling of "potato" I believe......