HNA going down?

[A3301FD]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/18/chinas-central-bank-creates-crisis-task-force-mega-debtor-hna/

[Flex88]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/06/18/chinas-central-bank-creates-crisis-task-force-mega-debtor-hna/


HNA group is/was a mainland sponsored/enabled/backed pyramid scheme from the get go. A bunch of mainland elites ran around the world throwing mainland cash away as fast as they possibly could (now what's that word when persons/companies are moving money out of a country ??) and finally it has caught up to them. Crunch.
It is now teetering on a total collapse - what a surprise..
Corruption at its highest level 100% enabled by totally incompetent "connected" elites.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

Well if HNA collapses that will surely solve CXs crewing problem

[rationalfunctions]

Well if HNA collapses that will surely solve CXs crewing problem

and remove any HK based (non LCC) competition from the market. Not ideal for the SLF

[azhkman]

Surely the entire operation would not go kaput overnight. One would think that they could sell off bits and pieces including HKE and HKA which have both had rumors of buyers since news broke that HNA Group had more or less pooped the bed. Would the HK government let SWIRE/CX buy the assets though? That would be one question, and how would other buyers, which have been rumored like Air Asia, navigate the ownership laws?

[mngmt mole]

Although I don't believe there is a threat to HKA's future, it is fair to say that there will be a long list of suitors interested in purchasing the entire operation if that becomes necessary. It is also safe to say that politically CX will not be allowed to be the purchaser. HK's future in Hong Kong is fairly secure. In fact, I would say that the long term question of survival is more appropriately directed to CX.

[shinytubedreamer]

Would that explain why the all the hype of a "Great leap forward" expansion strategy earlier this year suddenly disappeared into thin air? It seems to me like the proposed routes to London, Maledives and Manila have been scrapped and never to be heard again.

[stormfury]

Surely the entire operation would not go kaput overnight. One would think that they could sell off bits and pieces including HKE and HKA which have both had rumors of buyers since news broke that HNA Group had more or less pooped the bed. Would the HK government let SWIRE/CX buy the assets though? That would be one question, and how would other buyers, which have been rumored like Air Asia, navigate the ownership laws?

The sell off has already started.

https://newsroom.aviator.aero/hna-could-separate-from-gategroup-sr-technics-and-swissport/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/hna-is-said-to-sell-san-francisco-tower-to-northwood-investors

[cpahka]

Would that explain why the all the hype of a "Great leap forward" expansion strategy earlier this year suddenly disappeared into thin air? It seems to me like the proposed routes to London, Maledives and Manila have been scrapped and never to be heard again.

No scrapped, my understand LHR involve of slots issue, MNL & MLE already in service, read recent news a HKA cabin crew during layover MLE join a tour to Club Med Kani got accident and flew back by air ambulance ...

[Progress Wanchai]

“Great Leap Forward”?
Well there’s their problem in a 3 word slogan. Complete amateurs. Don’t they know it’s “Time to Win”?
Embarrassingly inept.

[Frogman1484]

“Great Leap Forward”?
Well there’s their problem in a 3 word slogan. Complete amateurs. Don’t they know it’s “Time to Win”?
Embarrassingly inept.

Didn’t the last “Great leap forward” kill 30 million people?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Swires have no desire to stay in the airline business. They'll dump CX as soon as they can turn a massive profit. My best guess is 14 months.

SQ/Temasek are salivating at the thought of getting into HKG, especially with a turnkey LCC like HNA.

MY money is on SQ.

[azhkman]

Swires have no desire to stay in the airline business. They'll dump CX as soon as they can turn a massive profit. My best guess is 14 months.

SQ/Temasek are salivating at the thought of getting into HKG, especially with a turnkey LCC like HNA.

MY money is on SQ.

As awesome as this would be, would Singapore have to establish a HK Entity through an investment with a local stooge playing the part of fat-cat business owner with at least 34% on paper? Not saying it is not doable, but CX would go ape. Should make for some good reading in the SCMP / Standard though. I'm happy to be the stooge, but I'll need someone to front my capital contribution.

[stormfury]

Co-chairman of China's HNA dies in accident in France. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Co-chairman-of-China-s-HNA-dies-in-accident-in-France

[Tea time]

Very sad outcome , the sceptic in me has to wonder if it was it an accident , or did someone give him a hand ?

[Flex88]

Very sad outcome , the sceptic in me has to wonder if it was it an accident , or did someone give him a hand ?

You don't have to be a sceptic to wonder what happened...
Why would he be on a "holiday" in France when the entire company is tanking ??? Would you?
This is, pure and simple, Capitalism "with Asian Values".

[Captain Dart]

Looks like he took a great leap backward.

https://finance.nine.com.au/2018/07/05/09/59/cochairman-of-virgin-australia-stakeholder-dies-in-fall

[broadband circuit]

the sceptic in me has to wonder if it was it an accident , or did someone give him a hand ?

Apparently fell off a wall when posing for a photograph......

[RAT Management]

Well.... If HNA Falls over... There will be a surplus of A50 and A330 drivers available for direct entry and throw a spanner in the Cc and TB so called upper hand!

[mngmt mole]

No one will train that demographic under those circumstances. Regardless, HKA isnt going anywhere.

[Freehills]

Related, now that HKE has been reasonably well established as an LCC, the owners have taken back control, with the expat management team all now replaced by HNA lifers

[morningcoffee]

No one will train that demographic under those circumstances. Regardless, HKA isnt going anywhere.
Debt’s up another 22% this year, debt to asset ratio (if you’re dumb enough to believe the company figures) has sailed past 60%. Asset values of what’s pawned so far aren’t close to book values.
They're asking their own staff to buy shares in it to prop it up.
Isn’t going anywhere?

[Apple Tree Yard]

You wish MC, you wish. That would be a CX management wet dream. Regardless, all you would accomplish is replacing the current CX pilots with their pilots. Pushes your eventual armageddon off by about 18 months. Nothing will save CX from their current feckless, clueless and vacuous management, which you are playing your own "useful idiot" part to an oscar winning level no doubt.

[morningcoffee]

You wish MC, you wish. That would be a CX management wet dream. Regardless, all you would accomplish is replacing the current CX pilots with their pilots. Pushes your eventual armageddon off by about 18 months. Nothing will save CX from their current feckless, clueless and vacuous management, which you are playing your own "useful idiot" part to an oscar winning level no doubt.
So your financial and investment acumen tells you that it’s financial situation is looking wonderful? Or you’re maybe not as sharp as you think you are? Can I sell you a bridge?

[Apple Tree Yard]

MC. What on earth are you blabbering on about? Nowhere in that post did I say the "financial situation is looking wonderful". I said that regardless, nothing that happens with HKA will help your incompetent management for long. You and your kind have driven this airline into the ground, and it's sadly amusing that you have come to believe that the only "salvation" for crewing the aircraft is the hopeful failure of a local competitor. That says about all that needs saying regarding the Swire "vision" for the future. Ironically, not even that event would really make any difference in the long run, as you will be spending most of your time desperately trying to lie and deceive the naive young inexperienced pilots you managed to con into joining, while at the same time the flood gates of resignations are open wide. The ONLY thing that will help this company is if there was a wholesale replacement of the spent force called Swire, and outside, fresh thinking and enlightened management comes in with new ideas, and a fresh vision. We all know that won't happen. One day the Swires will be sitting in their boardroom in London wondering just where it all went wrong for the once great airline called CX, not having even the slightest insight into their own key part in the tragedy they will have then wreaked on the airline and it's staff. You, and the rest of the Swire culture is toxic. You only succeeded due to a monopoly position, and now that the winds of competition are beginning to blow, you are clueless. Ultimately, it will be on your/Swire shoulders. Of course, you'll still be blaming the pilots, even then.

[morningcoffee]

MC. What on earth are you blabbering on about? Nowhere in that post did I say the "financial situation is looking wonderful". I said that regardless, nothing that happens with HKA will help your incompetent management for long. You and your kind have driven this airline into the ground, and it's sadly amusing that you have come to believe that the only "salvation" for crewing the aircraft is the hopeful failure of a local competitor. That says about all that needs saying regarding the Swire "vision" for the future. Ironically, not even that event would really make any difference in the long run, as you will be spending most of your time desperately trying to lie and deceive the naive young inexperienced pilots you managed to con into joining, while at the same time the flood gates of resignations are open wide. The ONLY thing that will help this company is if there was a wholesale replacement of the spent force called Swire, and outside, fresh thinking and enlightened management comes in with new ideas, and a fresh vision. We all know that won't happen. One day the Swires will be sitting in their boardroom in London wondering just where it all went wrong for the once great airline called CX, not having even the slightest insight into their own key part in the tragedy they will have then wreaked on the airline and it's staff. You, and the rest of the Swire culture is toxic. You only succeeded due to a monopoly position, and now that the winds of competition are beginning to blow, you are clueless. Ultimately, it will be on your/Swire shoulders. Of course, you'll still be blaming the pilots, even then.
FFS. A previous poster said HNA isn't going anywhere. The thread was Titled "HNA going down" it was about HNA and its financial state. Analysts say financially it doesn't look good. A poster (management mole) said that was incorrect and he/she knew more than all the analysts put together. I asked if they could elaborate. You want to talk about something else, perhaps start your own thread.
"New ideas and fresh vision" Sounds rosy, throw in pink unicorns and houses made of candy.
Any thoughts on what this might actually be? If you don't have any then you don't understand the aviation market and if you don't understand the aviation market then why do you comment? Sadly every analyst and consultant (I stopped reading after 23 reports/insights) says there is one main expense that needs to be reduced to increase profitability. You're not going to like what it is.
Any chance you could offer one viable alternative for all the "tricked into joining" new joiners out there? Every S/O I fly with is sick of some old guy telling him CX is terrible when in actual fact they are clueless about the job alternatives. What alternatives?

[shortly2]

Good post MC. A word of advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys. Make your own decisions based on your own requirements.

[OK4Wire]

advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys

Are you saying you are old, but not senior?

So MC should listen to you, but ignore senior guys who are not old?

[Flex88]

Good post MC. A word of advice from an old fart, don't listen to the senior guys. Make your own decisions based on your own requirements.

Don't listen to "Senior Guys" ??
You mean the guys who know the cost of living in HK, the guys who know what CX has and is still doing to COS over 25+ years, the guys who have first hand experience of what lengths CX will go to to regarding "stripping" (often called "enhancements")of now and future benefits...

shortly2 is bereft of any common sense whatsoever and being disingenuous. If you don't solicit information from those with past experience you then make poor decisions because you lack insight and knowledge of the situation..

Don't listen to shortly2... !!
Listen and get information from everyone or pay the price by making misinformed decisions for you and your family.

[Farman Biplane]

“There are a lot of ex-CX crew and office staff at these airlines and highly doubt they would go back there...”

until they have to pay their next ridiculous HK monthly rental payment and then they will accept their job back at CX on less than when they left....

[cxorcist]

Someday, CX might learn that putting a constant squeeze on the employees doesn’t make for a very good airline. CX should be pressing vendors and suppliers for lower prices, not employees. CX does just the opposite, pouring overpriced services by Swire entities into the airline and haranguing their employees. Duh!!!

[Apple Tree Yard]

Well, after 25 yrs of the constant squeeze, i'm not so sure Swire will wake up to the obvious. In fact, evidence to date suggests that they never wake up to anything (other than their own bonuses). They certainly are proving to be incapable of running an airline in a competitive environment. Product, quality, marketing, innovation...every single area they are lacking in. There is no hope for CX unless it is sold and the Swire's are eradicated from our management.

[Freehills]

Airbus faces a logjam of undelivered A330 jets worth well over $1 billion for airlines affiliated to China's debt-laden HNA Group following a stand-off over late payments. Companies belonging to the Chinese conglomerate have delayed payments for several months, leading Airbus to withdraw deliveries rather than step in to finance the aircraft itself.

[morningcoffee]

Airbus faces a logjam of undelivered A330 jets worth well over $1 billion for airlines affiliated to China's debt-laden HNA Group following a stand-off over late payments. Companies belonging to the Chinese conglomerate have delayed payments for several months, leading Airbus to withdraw deliveries rather than step in to finance the aircraft itself.
Would lead you to believe Airbus didn't think they'd get paid even if they financed it themselves. Pity it's not Boeing and they could use EXIM to guarantee the payment, makes it easy to sell, for instance, 737's by the hundreds to anyone and I mean anyone who wants them.

[cxorcist]

Would lead you to believe Airbus didn't think they'd get paid even if they financed it themselves. Pity it's not Boeing and they could use EXIM to guarantee the payment, makes it easy to sell, for instance, 737's by the hundreds to anyone and I mean anyone who wants them.

Not true! EXIM does nothing to help US airlines buy 737s. In fact, it only strengthens their competitors.

[act700]

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/68940-airbus-stalls-a330-deliveries-to-hna-group-over-non-payment