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zanthrus
5th Jun 2018, 09:44
https://www.news.com.au/travel/world-travel/asia/qantas-will-change-its-website-to-refer-to-taiwan-as-a-chinese-territory/news-story/6daa3e293fabb8c7eacf9755629e9f4d

What a gutless bunch of pricks QANTAS managment are. TAIWAN is NOT CHINA. TIBET is NOT CHINA. The disputed islands in the South China Sea are NOT CHINA.
CHINA NEEDS TO BE STOPPED NOW! :mad:

Ken Borough
5th Jun 2018, 09:50
I bet Jetset Julie and her Canberra minions had a significant hand in Qantas' decision. Qantas was on a hiding to nothing!

*Lancer*
5th Jun 2018, 10:10
Qantas doesn’t sell tickets to Tibet or the South China Sea, and most of the UN (including Australia) recognises the PRC as the legitimate government of Taiwan. Bit hard to go against that when you want to do business in China!

Strainer
5th Jun 2018, 10:12
Alan Joyce. You gutless, feckless, fcukwit.

Global Aviator
5th Jun 2018, 10:17
So as a business leader what would you do? Cut of your nose to spite your face?

Look at the list of other airlines who have already changed, have you made online attacks against them?

So if Qantas said no........ Hmmmm your Beijing and Shanghai slots have been revoked? Hong Kong? Expansion into China and south east Asia. As a business leader one needs to think long term.

So I ask what would you have done?

Chris2303
5th Jun 2018, 10:20
We don't even fly there, it's a codeshare with China Airlines

Ken Borough
5th Jun 2018, 10:24
We don't even fly there, it's a codeshare with China Airlines

Those with a long memory and corporate knowledge will know that Qantas acknowledged a "One China policy" before operating to Taipei as Australia Asia Airlines in the early 1990s. What else is new?

cattletruck
5th Jun 2018, 10:47
AUSTRALIA is NOT CHINA...but give it a few more years...:}

Rated De
5th Jun 2018, 23:07
AUSTRALIA is NOT CHINA...but give it a few more years...:}

Anyone doubting the trajectory of the 'relationship' with China that Australia sleepwalked itself in, ought get themselves a copy of Professor Clive Hamilton's book 'Silent Invasion'. This is the book dropped by two publishers, of course in no way would a 'friendly' trading partner attempt to influence anyone. That Australia has allowed Chinese influence to the level it has, pumping house prices with illicit cash has meant that this issue got little attention outside the sphere of Australia's security and intelligence organisation who unlike the various weasels at all levels of politics actually work in the national interest.

Give little Napoleon a break. He is a bully only when he is the bigger man. Was very happy to use company funds where it suited him as a social campaigner. He is a reflection of modern Australia, happy to take the money from a brutal dictatorship, as he was to ignore the dystopian elements relating to personal conduct in the UAE that he willing exposed his customers to.

dr dre
5th Jun 2018, 23:18
Why is it QF who are being attacked on this site when the reality is most governments (including Australia’s) and most other airlines and companies who trade with China have the exact same policy? Is it just an excuse for more QF bashing for any reason that exists throughout this forum?

Blitzkrieger
6th Jun 2018, 00:47
QANTAS bashing it may be but a decade of totalitarian rule from that excuse of a CEO has created this sentiment. You’ll forgive people for having a hair trigger when it comes questionable decisions.

Rabbitwear
6th Jun 2018, 01:05
AUSTRALIA is NOT CHINA...but give it a few more years...:}
too true , unfortunately !

nefarious1
6th Jun 2018, 01:12
Qantas....standing up for SSM, but not DEMOCRACY

Captain Biggles84
6th Jun 2018, 01:30
Blitz and Rated De 1000% spot on. Dre don’t be so sensitive. No one is having a go at hard working QF Staff. This is all about what your boss and board have decided what your company stands for and doesn’t stand for at the behest of you and the rest of your colleagues. All with what seems zero accountability. Greed is king and AJ is a complete two faced little queen scared of China. No leadership at all except when talking up profits and turn around.

mmmbop
6th Jun 2018, 02:46
Bang on Dr Dre. BA, LH,Etihad, Malaysian, Garuda, Air Canada etc are but a few who have already done what Qantas has done. And don't forget EK - they banned their Taiwanese Cabin Crew from wearing the Taiwanese flag on their uniforms.

But hey, this isn't a Qantas or AJ bash...........

Beer Baron
6th Jun 2018, 03:16
It’s not being sensitive it’s being accurate. This is the Australian government’s stance on Taiwan from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade website:
The Australian Government continued to recognise Taipei until the establishment of diplomatic relations with the People’s Republic of China (PRC) in 1972. Australia’s Joint Communiqué with the PRC recognised the Government of the PRC as China’s sole legal government, and acknowledged the position of the PRC that Taiwan was a province of the PRC.

The terms of our Joint Communiqué dictate the fundamental basis of Australia’s one China policy - the Australian Government does not recognise the Republic of China (ROC) as a sovereign state and does not regard the authorities in Taiwan as having the status of a national government.

So if you have a problem with how an Australian company refers to Taiwan then you should probably direct your malice toward Julie Bishop and DFAT as it is precisely in line with the Australian government’s guidance.

Comments refering to the CEO as a “gutless, feckless, fcukwit” or “two faced little queen” over this decision are naive of the diplomatic reality, naive of the commercial and demographic reality, crude and bigoted.

Past decisions by Qantas senior management have trashed the company and caused significant damage to my own career but these attacks are unjustified.

jolihokistix
6th Jun 2018, 03:16
Keep it on topic folks. Look at the thread title.

The only real question for me is with which side do you empathize, the PRC government on the mainland, or the ROC government in Taiwan?

Keg
6th Jun 2018, 04:02
Past decisions by Qantas senior management have trashed the company and caused significant damage to my own career but these attacks are unjustified.

Agreed. Joyce’s lifestyle choices shouldn’t enter in the discussion.

Though when you decide to take a very public and high profile stand arguing ‘principles’ it does look a tad hypocritical when you decide to compromise them later on.

*Lancer*
6th Jun 2018, 04:33
Homosexuality is illegal in Singapore (and UAE). Shall Qantas make a stand and stop flying there?

swh
6th Jun 2018, 04:39
Not sure why they could not call it Taiwan? That’s what it is called in all the airports in mainland China.

What is the true danger to navigation is the constant calls the Chinese military make on 121.5 telling aircraft to get of their airspace. That is sometimes a long way from China when you can see the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Korea, or Japan etc out the window.

They just take take take, no consideration for the rule of law most of the time.

Gnadenburg
6th Jun 2018, 04:57
Both countries have a brutal history of thuggery. Granted Taiwan's move toward a democracy. Taiwanese aren't always clear-cut with what they want in terms of China so its just another civil war we're getting involved in for economic loss?

If the West is serious about Taiwan. Arm them ! China will only become more belligerent as its air force and navy comfortably ascends Taiwan's military capabilities which are facing block obsolescence.

virgindriver
6th Jun 2018, 07:51
Just a commercial decision.

Isn’t this more something our Government should be protesting about?

Gnadenburg
6th Jun 2018, 08:12
Just a commercial decision.

Indeed ! Our vintners have finally found a market for our overpriced and average wine. In typical slicing the salami fashion, the Chinese have left shipments stalled and possibly roasting on the docks. All pay back and bullying for Australian government rightfully pursuing foreign interference policies.

China is important to Australia. These issues need to be worked through at the same time as lessoning our dependance on the Chinese ( reminds me of America's Middle East dependance ). Qantas wisely kowtowed.

geordiejet
6th Jun 2018, 08:20
What do we expect? This is the same Qantas who just a few years back flew an A380 flypast to celebrate Australia Day but now encourages its people to refer to said times as ‘the invasion’ and ‘the invaders’. International offence and encouraging Ill feeling toward others and Qantas are no strangers.

bazza stub
6th Jun 2018, 19:02
What is the UN view of Taiwan?

AerialPerspective
6th Jun 2018, 23:35
Why is it QF who are being attacked on this site when the reality is most governments (including Australia’s) and most other airlines and companies who trade with China have the exact same policy? Is it just an excuse for more QF bashing for any reason that exists throughout this forum?




Precisely Dr Dre... I see no one branding Virgin as gutless and feckless and JB as a f-wit yet VA NEVER had Taiwan as separate to China on it's website and completely side-stepped the issue... but of course, that doesn't make them or him gutless because they don't have a kangaroo on the tail of their aircraft. One-sided and convenient... given a choice between working for a profitable company and working for one that hasn't made a profit for 7 years and only survives by borrowing money from it's investors, I'll take the profitable one that modifies its China references to be in line with the UN and most of the world's nation States.

Willie Nelson
9th Jun 2018, 04:27
If Qantas felt that the federal government was going to get involved in multi lateral trade pact that was going to pursue amendments to the Open Skies agreement directed solely at China, then I'm sure that Qantas and Flight Centre for that matter would be able to find the pair that seems to have gone astray. Don't hold your breath.

If anyone seriously thinks Julie Bishop or Steve Ciobo is going to take this up with their Chinese counterparts you've got to be kidding, they have much bigger battles to fight both now and in the future. The Chinese authorities have threatened unilateral inbound bans to both Qantas and Flight Centre. These parliamentarians are already working hard to dispel the propaganda the the CCP is spreading about Australian she being racist and university students being subject to violence and intimidation.

Qantas and flight centre have no room to move in these matters, not because of their lack of cahooneys but largely because of the well established lack of Cahooneys of all governments in the era of trade liberalisation. And before anyone starts saying what about the orange man with tiny hands in America, let's wait and see how it all works out for him before we start getting too carried away with that line of thought.

Don't conflate your homophobia with with the QF board's imperative to safeguard their business.

Captain Biggles84
10th Jun 2018, 00:57
If Qantas felt that the federal government was going to get involved in multi lateral trade pact that was going to pursue amendments to the Open Skies agreement directed solely at China, then I'm sure that Qantas and Flight Centre for that matter would be able to find the pair that seems to have gone astray. Don't hold your breath.

If anyone seriously thinks Julie Bishop or Steve Ciobo is going to take this up with their Chinese counterparts you've got to be kidding, they have much bigger battles to fight both now and in the future. The Chinese authorities have threatened unilateral inbound bans to both Qantas and Flight Centre. These parliamentarians are already working hard to dispel the propaganda the the CCP is spreading about Australian she being racist and university students being subject to violence and intimidation.

Qantas and flight centre have no room to move in these matters, not because of their lack of cahooneys but largely because of the well established lack of Cahooneys of all governments in the era of trade liberalisation. And before anyone starts saying what about the orange man with tiny hands in America, let's wait and see how it all works out for him before we start getting too carried away with that line of thought.

Don't conflate your homophobia with with the QF board's imperative to safeguard their business.


I actually agree with you, however when the board feel it imperative to weigh in what political and social agendas they see fit it is reeks of weakness and lacks leadership when they have a perfect time to continue such a stance. In this instance they have actually stuck to what they do best and that is run an airline. But you cannot have your foot in both camps. They should keep out of all politics full stop! Or at the very least be consistent

Willie Nelson
10th Jun 2018, 09:27
Captain Bloggs, I might suggest that consistency for its own sake doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either.

There is some merit in speaking out on issues that you believe you may have an influence over while not picking pointless fights when it will only demonstrate your weakness in a field of debate also seems to have merit even you disagree with the issue at hand.

We Australians all get a bit tetchy when people talk about sex, politics and religion, I suspect we may respectfully disagree on the issues at hand but I think talking about these issues respectfully is what makes the world go around, perhaps in that much we have a bit in common.

Capn Bloggs
10th Jun 2018, 15:37
Captain Bloggs
Don't bring me into this!! :{ I'm staying well away...

Daddy Fantastic
10th Jun 2018, 19:26
So as a business leader what would you do? Cut of your nose to spite your face?

Look at the list of other airlines who have already changed, have you made online attacks against them?

So if Qantas said no........ Hmmmm your Beijing and Shanghai slots have been revoked? Hong Kong? Expansion into China and south east Asia. As a business leader one needs to think long term.

So I ask what would you have done?

Stand up for what is morally and ethically right....Then if they play hardball get your western allies to revoke all of their slots and show them who is boss!!

*Lancer*
10th Jun 2018, 20:48
Qantas doesn’t have any “Western allies”.

All of Australia’s Western allies happen to acknowledge the same political landscape Qantas has acquiesced to. :rolleyes:

Daddy Fantastic
11th Jun 2018, 00:38
Qantas doesn’t have any “Western allies”.

All of Australia’s Western allies happen to acknowledge the same political landscape Qantas has acquiesced to. :rolleyes:

Sure lets go with that.....Qantas has no choice and its up to Qantas if Chinese carriers get slots in western countries...oh wait!!!

Heathrow Harry
12th Jun 2018, 18:17
Stand up for what is morally and ethically right....Then if they play hardball get your western allies to revoke all of their slots and show them who is boss!!
Brings tears to the eyes... every European airport would kill for a Chinese service