View Full Version : Military jet has near miss with paragliders in Wiltshire
Heathrow Harry
1st Jun 2018, 18:22
Military jet has near miss with paragliders in Wiltshire - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-wiltshire-44334816/military-jet-has-near-miss-with-paragliders-in-wiltshire)A military jet had a near miss when it flew through a group of paragliders in Wiltshire.
The incident happened when the Royal Navy Hawk T1 was on a practice bombing run at a nearby military range in January.
An official investigation found the jet pilot had not been briefed that paragliders were in the airspace prior to his flight.
watching the video from one of the para gliders they don't seem too concerned
Full Airprox report (http://www.airproxboard.org.uk/uploadedFiles/Content/Standard_content/Airprox_report_files/2018/New_Assessed_Folder/Airprox%20Report%202018012.pdf)
tartare
1st Jun 2018, 20:24
Jaysus - that is close and had the potential to be nasty for all parties concerned! The paraglider assn makes pretty pointed comments in the air Prox report about their members nav kit being better than the Hawk’s!!!
glad rag
2nd Jun 2018, 11:53
Military jet has near miss with paragliders in Wiltshire - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-wiltshire-44334816/military-jet-has-near-miss-with-paragliders-in-wiltshire)
watching the video from one of the para gliders they don't seem too concerned
That's because he never checked for a no2!!
Didn't something similar happen to a jag mate with a nimrod a decade or so ago??
Dan Gerous
2nd Jun 2018, 12:06
We seem to be getting these hill jumpers regularly in the Selkirk - Moffat valley. The times for TTA's are known well in advance, yet they still seem to turn up at the same time! There are also plenty of other sites in the area these "aviators" could use, but they insist on using the same valley, the low jets use. Also noticed a recent increase in drones being used in the area around St Mary's Loch/Loch of the Lowes.
Incipient Sinner
2nd Jun 2018, 17:35
Heathrow Harry. The report states that the paragliders weren't in the exercise airspace. the Hawk speared out of the airspace and the pilot thought he was still inside. Hence the comments on nav kit; all the PGs would have been flying with moving map displays or similar airspace alerts.
Heathrow Harry. The report states that the paragliders weren't in the exercise airspace. the Hawk speared out of the airspace and the pilot thought he was still inside. Hence the comments on nav kit; all the PGs would have been flying with moving map displays or similar airspace alerts.
Or, alternatively, insuffient airspace for what Mil jets need to do the job?
An unfortunatate juxtaposition of incompatible activities, compounded by less that stellar communications. ... oh, and a Hawk pilot pushing the boundaries on his map, at high speed in a turn.
flighthappens
2nd Jun 2018, 18:25
Heathrow Harry. The report states that the paragliders weren't in the exercise airspace. the Hawk speared out of the airspace and the pilot thought he was still inside. Hence the comments on nav kit; all the PGs would have been flying with moving map displays or similar airspace alerts.
Note - I’m not apportioning blame, but just because you CAN fly to the very edge of NOTAM airspace, doesn’t mean you should!
It is patently obvious that D123 is too small for CAS regardless of altitude. The hawk driver was always going to spill into class G.
The times for TTA's are known well in advance, yet they still seem to turn up at the same time! There are also plenty of other sites in the area these "aviators" could use, but they insist on using the same valley, the low jets use.
It's been a long time since my hang-gliding days, but good flying sites are precious, and the sites that can be used on a given day are very much dependent on wind direction and speed - to the extent that asking people to put in NOTAMS the day before seems unrealistic. That said, we used to have a Tornado pilot in the hang-gliding club. Seems he found that gliding scratched an itch that bombing about at 500mph didn't.
Tankertrashnav
3rd Jun 2018, 10:54
Re the remarks about the Hawk's nav kit. Is the fact that its GPS is 20 years old actually relevant? Still pretty accurate I would have thought.
Heathrow Harry
3rd Jun 2018, 11:24
Heathrow Harry. The report states that the paragliders weren't in the exercise airspace. the Hawk speared out of the airspace and the pilot thought he was still inside. Hence the comments on nav kit; all the PGs would have been flying with moving map displays or similar airspace alerts.
I was quoting the BBC article.........................
I would imagine that it's accurate, but does it have the same features as more modern consumer systems such as showing airspace boundaries and topographical charts?
Easy Street
3rd Jun 2018, 12:11
The quality of moving map doesn't have a bearing here because airspace boundaries would have been almost irrelevant to the Hawk pilot anyway. The danger areas at UK weapons ranges over land are designed to keep other aircraft away from weapons effects; they are not big enough to enclose all manoeuvring between attacks by aircraft engaged in activity on the range. Of course they could be made so, but recreational flyers would be up in arms. The 'so whats' are that normal 'see and avoid' lookout needs to be carried out during most range work, only in the final stage of an attack giving full attention to targeting; and aircraft operating just outside a danger area should not assume aircraft in it will stay inside.
Fitter2
3rd Jun 2018, 12:41
The location of the Paragliding site which the Hawk overflew at low level is clearly marked on the 1:5000,000 chart, but apparently from the AirProx Board discussion not briefed or considered. The Hawk pilot apparently believed he was inside the danger area at all the relevant time, and that does have a bearing on his situational awareness, as provided by the pathetic (in current technology) display.
I do understand Military Procurement budgets, Timetables and constraints, and the problems of operating fast jets in the geographically limited Salisbury Plain operational area.
B Fraser
4th Jun 2018, 07:03
The White Horse site is one of the most frequently used. There is another at Combe Gibbet west of Newbury which was not marked on the 1:500,000 maps IIRC. I have flown there with at least 20 other gliders in the air. Hopefully, that site is now marked however could someone with the latest map please confirm ?