View Full Version : Helicopter crash - Lively Island (FI, 1982)
Marcantilan
26th May 2018, 23:02
Hello all,
Recently, a friend of mine who was there in 1982 (and was in charge of surveying the Argentine crash sites shortly after the war) told me he found on June 22, 1982 a Puma wreck north (or NE) of Lively Island.
I am pretty puzzled about it, because no Argentine Puma was lost there. Or even near there.
I am looking for the fate of Puma AE-505, shot down on May 9, 1982, at 1907z, by a Sea Dart launched from HMS Coventry. Coventry and HMS Broadsword were at the time S of the islands capital: Broadsword detected the helo over land and near Port Harriet and transmitted the helo position via link. Coventry then gained the contact and launched a single Sea Dart, which travelled 13 mn and impacted the helo near Port Pleasant (probably over land, according to Coventry´s BoI) - considerable distance from Lively Island.
It was the first Sea Dart kill ever. All crewmembers were lost.
According to my friend (who was very kind to dig out his own notes from that time), the Puma remains were burned out and no crew were identified.
Oddly enough, the Argentine Army always considered the helo crashed in the water, so no question was ever asked about this one.
I am aware some Ppruners were deployed down south after the 1982 war. Anyone remember about a crash site on Lively Island? Or have further info about this Argentine Army Puma AE-505? I think it could be very important for the relatives to know the full story.
Regards!
megan
27th May 2018, 01:57
What I've found via various sources. On the morning of the 9 May two Sea Harriers from HMS Hermes were sent to bomb Stanley but failed to accomplish due cloud over the target. During their return to Hermes they detected a surface contact by radar which turned out to be the Argentinian fishing vessel Narwal. The aircraft attacked using bombs and cannon. One bomb hit the trawler but failed to explode because of being dropped from too low an altitude. Two other Sea Harriers also attacked with cannon leaving the ship crippled. Seaman Contramaestre Omar Rupp was killed and others injured. A Sea King let down a Royal Marine boarding party and took over the ship. The presence of an Argentinian Naval officer plus certain documents confirmed the ship’s use in gathering intelligence. The prisoners were returned to Argentinia via Montevideo on 2 June.
In the afternoon of the 9 May a Puma from Stanley attempted to find and help the Narwal and was shot down by the Coventry into the sea in Choiseul Sound (Lively Island is at the mouth of Choiseul Sound). No trace was ever found of the aircraft or three crew. The crash site is given as due north of Lively Island and close to the mainland. Pilot First Leut. Roberto Fiorito, copilot First Leut. Juan Buschiazzo were the first Argentinian Army officers to be killed in the Falklands area, crewman Sgt. Raul Dimotta. .
Much of the information comes from "Argentine Fight for the Falklands" by Martin Middlebrook.
Marcantilan
28th May 2018, 19:01
Thanks a lot Megan.
According to Coventry BoI, AE-505 was engaged near Port Pleasant. But a Puma wreck was found on Lively Island. Around 17 nm distance.
Trumpet_trousers
29th May 2018, 20:01
The only Puma wreck that I am aware of from the conflict is on West Falkland, roughly in the area near Port Howard on a ridge, AFAIR.
IIRC, it was shot down by a Harrier/Sea Harrier. We used to fly over it regularly when I was down there in ‘88.
If your friend identified the other wreck as a Puma, then it sounds as if this is AE-505. 17 Miles is close enough, given the possible confusion that may have occurred during the campaign. Unless anyone positively saw it impacting the water on that day, it almost certainly is your missing Puma
megan
30th May 2018, 00:17
The only Puma wreck that I am aware of from the conflict is on West Falkland That would be one of the aircraft lost 23 May I'd presume. Puma losses during the conflict, all Argentinean.
3 April - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 shot down at Grytviken, South Georgia by Royal Marine small arms fire.
9 May - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 shot down over Choiseul Sound by Sea Dart fired by HMS Coventry (4.10 pm). Crew of three lost.
21 May - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 badly damaged on ground near Mount Kent in same attack by Sqdn Ldr Pook and Flt Lt Hare RAF in 1(F) Sqdn Harrier GR.3's using 30mm cannon (8.00 am). Destroyed on 26th in same position by Sqdn Ldr Pook using CBU's.
23 May - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 flew into ground near Shag Cove House, West Falkland attempting to evade Flt Lt Morgan RAF in No.800 NAS Sea Harrier (10.30 am). All crew escaped.
23 May - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 also in same incident near Shag Cove House, West Falkland damaged on ground by Flt Lt Morgan with 30mm cannon (10.30 am). Then believed shortly destroyed by Lt Cmdr Gedge and Lt Cmdr Braithwaite RN in No.801 Sea Harriers with more cannon fire
30 May - Puma SA.330L of CAB 601 shot down by SAS with Stinger missile two miles north of Mount Kent. 6 passengers killed, crew survived. Tail section and rotor blades reported as still there twenty years later.
megan
30th May 2018, 12:54
I think it could be very important for the relatives to know the full story. I think the parents would be aware of the story. The Presidential heliport is named in honour of Roberto Mario Fiorito, the PIC of AE-505. Mother on the left with the President, Cristina Fernandez
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Helipuerto_Roberto_Mario_Fiorito.jpg/679px-Helipuerto_Roberto_Mario_Fiorito.jpg
Another pic includes his Father, on the left.
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/12/17/world/17argentina1/17argentina1-jumbo.jpg
a Puma wreck north (or NE) of Lively IslandI'd suggest on the mainland, not on Lively Island, as he says north of the island. Snap of Chinook wreckage north of Mt. Kent.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p/AF1QipNb3QHSf2UL6txy0oIQ0Eppr6nUDzcjVgHlQ21U=h720
.
Marcantilan
30th May 2018, 14:13
Hello Megan,
I am positive the relatives have no clue about what really happend with the Puma, or where exactly was shot down. In fact, they believe the helo was shot down over sea, near Sea Lion Island.
If i match Coventry´s BoI with Broadsword log (Coventry´s log was lost), this is what happened:
http://i67.tinypic.com/e0jpk2.jpg
Lively (Boungaville) is circled, some 17 miles south of the engagement area.
All others helos lost were accounted for:
http://i66.tinypic.com/2lawsgz.jpg
A mistery is in place!
Best regards,
Mariano
Davef68
30th May 2018, 22:03
Interesting decsription " North (or NE) of Lively Island" - did he mean in the North/North East of Lively or one of the islands in that area (Including, in this context, the interestingly named North East Island)
megan
30th May 2018, 23:57
The following is the speech made by the President at the heliport opening. You might note that she says Fiorito "disappeared", that also implies the aircraft "disappeared". If the aircraft had crashed on land there would be crew remains of some sort.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=https://www.casarosada.gob.ar/informacion/archivo/25165-inauguracion-del-helipuerto-qroberto-mario-fioritoq-palabras-de-la-presidenta-de-la-nacion&prev=search
Recently, a friend of mine who was there in 1982 (and was in charge of surveying the Argentine crash sites shortly after the war) told me he found on June 22, 1982 a Puma wreck north (or NE) of Lively Island.
Well if you can ask him for a more precise location I am sure someone can go and take a look and post some photos and part serial numbers. it sound sufficiently important - especially since it implies that, if correct, the crew remains will still be in place.
Marcantilan
31st May 2018, 18:10
Well if you can ask him for a more precise location I am sure someone can go and take a look and post some photos and part serial numbers. it sound sufficiently important - especially since it implies that, if correct, the crew remains will still be in place.
Sadly, he does not remember and his personal notes were not accurate in the location.
The info must be there somewhere, because he was in an official task, and reporting the findings to an higher HQ. I am sure, also, Avenger flight OC reported the locations to his HQ too.
Regards!
My guess he is referring to one of the two Pumas at the Mount Kent location which is north east of Lively. If AE-505 had come down on land it would have been located.
Marcantilan
1st Jun 2018, 19:10
My guess he is referring to one of the two Pumas at the Mount Kent location which is north east of Lively. If AE-505 had come down on land it would have been located.
No. He is positive about a Puma wreck on Lively. Really, he was looking for HMS Fearless LCU Foxtrot 4, lost on June 8th, 1982 in that general area. Regards,
Could it have been a misidentification of undercarriage?
See following post from 2009 on Keymags.
On my second deployment to the Falklands in 1982 I went ashore on Lively Island and was shown part of an undercarriage that the locals said was from a downed Argentine Canberra. They told us the Canberra crashed with such force the earth shook noticeably. Can they be right about it being a Canberra? Did any other Argentine aircraft crash on Lively Island?
https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?81971-Falklands-quot-What-if-quot&p=1356464#post1356464
Could the undercarriage have been the nosewheel of Canberra B-108 that was misidentified as being from a Puma? (Double wheels)
http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/air-support/puma-hc2.jpg
http://plane-crazy.k-hosting.co.uk/Aircraft/Jets/Canberra/Canberra-WK163-B2-B6+1.jpg
Marcantilan (https://www.pprune.org/members/312359-marcantilan), In your opening post you said, told me he found on June 22, 1982 a Puma wreck north (or NE) of Lively Island Now in your latest post you say, He is positive about a Puma wreck on Lively The two statements obviously don't agree, with the exception of AE-505 all the Pumas lost are accounted for with physical wreckage. AE-505 certainly did not crash on Lively given the Presidents speech. Have a read through this thread, you'll see in the heat of battle and the fog of war even the participants are not too sure what may have occurred.
https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/297920-falklands-crash-sites.html
Marcantilan
4th Jun 2018, 17:59
Could it have been a misidentification of undercarriage?
See following post from 2009 on Keymags.
https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?81971-Falklands-quot-What-if-quot&p=1356464#post1356464
Could the undercarriage have been the nosewheel of Canberra B-108 that was misidentified as being from a Puma? (Double wheels)
http://www.eliteukforces.info/images/air-support/puma-hc2.jpg
http://plane-crazy.k-hosting.co.uk/Aircraft/Jets/Canberra/Canberra-WK163-B2-B6+1.jpg
Very interesting info TEEEJ. I am going to contact Griffiths911 (I know him) to try to clear the picture.
Marcantilan
4th Jun 2018, 18:01
Marcantilan (https://www.pprune.org/members/312359-marcantilan), In your opening post you said,Now in your latest post you say,The two statements obviously don't agree, with the exception of AE-505 all the Pumas lost are accounted for with physical wreckage. AE-505 certainly did not crash on Lively given the Presidents speech. Have a read through this thread, you'll see in the heat of battle and the fog of war even the participants are not too sure what may have occurred.
https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/297920-falklands-crash-sites.html
Sorry, I can´t see the contradiction. As the President´s speech, believe me, she had no clue.
Very interesting info TEEEJ. I am going to contact Griffiths911 (I know him) to try to clear the picture.
No problem, Marcantilan. Good luck with your search for info.
Bagheera S
5th Jun 2018, 21:09
The encyclopaedic book* “Falklands The air war” by R Burden/M Draper/D Rough/C Smith records on page 65;- AE505 “ the destroyer brought the puma down from extreme range with a Sea Dart.”
The important information in this account is that an exterme range for Sea Dart was 35-40 miles, as opposed to the 13 miles mentioned above. I believe that a range of 35-40 miles could only have achieved, in a near costal location, if the engagement took place over Lively Island.
* This book was written before the publication of Coventry’s BOI and was based on numerous interviews with those who took part on both sides. Unsurprisingly it’s accounts correlate well with subsequently published information.
Also remember that a number of those on HMS Coventry who actually witnessed this action on their radar screen, sadly didn’t survive the conflict.
So where have the various conflicting accounts originated from?
Marcantilan
6th Jun 2018, 20:45
The encyclopaedic book* “Falklands The air war” by R Burden/M Draper/D Rough/C Smith records on page 65;- AE505 “ the destroyer brought the puma down from extreme range with a Sea Dart.”
The important information in this account is that an exterme range for Sea Dart was 35-40 miles, as opposed to the 13 miles mentioned above. I believe that a range of 35-40 miles could only have achieved, in a near costal location, if the engagement took place over Lively Island.
* This book was written before the publication of Coventry’s BOI and was based on numerous interviews with those who took part on both sides. Unsurprisingly it’s accounts correlate well with subsequently published information.
Also remember that a number of those on HMS Coventry who actually witnessed this action on their radar screen, sadly didn’t survive the conflict.
So where have the various conflicting accounts originated from?
Hello,
According to Coventry´s report of the time, the engagement was also at a range of 13 nm.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/640x139/o3fb5_7d724969c14ad337819b605a9773b4a1aeb31b07.jpg
(DEFE 67-126)
If I recall correct, Woodward´s book mentions the same distance.
13 nm is the correct range, if the helo was engaged over Port Pleasant AND north of Lively:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/1579x944/35kix34_77b12e0d7ab319aca6e81d5c0013eaead5db79d0.jpg
Thoughts?
Thirteen miles also agrees with the point given in Choiseul Sound where the aircraft is said to have gone down. Without identifiable wreckage any assumptions are pointless. Don your scuba gear and start diving.
I researched the location of my brothers death in a fire fight in Vietnam. The after action report gave one location and the regimental daily diary gave another, about one kilometre apart. I can well imagine the difficulty a patrol might have in navigating on foot in thick jungle, so perhaps the after action report made by the patrol leader is in error, Who knows. Media report gave the event happening 160 kilometres distant. Talking to the other participants they described the physical environment perfectly, six foot diameter tree and prominent track alignment, the only trouble being when we visited the site the thick tropical jungle that had been in existence at the time had been cleared and was now grassland. So the exact site will never be known.
Impressive snap.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/964x880/article_0_13553f79000005dc_760_964x880_5b85f4e78222962f2f294 cb48790e651ba81692e.jpg
Captain Pablo Carballo, in the left plane, and Lieutenant Carlos Rinke, right, skimmed just a few feet above the water to avoid radar detection. Both pilots survived because the Sea Wolf missile system on HMS Broadsword was unable to choose between their A-4s when they became visible on the radar.The aircrafts released one bomb each. One missed the target, while the other one hit the Broadsword, in spite of the intense anti-aircraft fire.
Marcantilan
13th Jun 2018, 14:41
Could it have been a misidentification of undercarriage?
See following post from 2009 on Keymags.
https://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?81971-Falklands-quot-What-if-quot&p=1356464#post1356464
Could the undercarriage have been the nosewheel of Canberra B-108 that was misidentified as being from a Puma? (Double wheels)
Update. I´ve been in contact with Ken and no Canberra parts weres on Lively Island. The mistery remaims...
sargs
13th Jun 2018, 15:48
I went to the Falklands for the first time in December 1993 as a member of a Sea King SAR crew. The crew had an interest in 'aircraft wreck tourism' and sought out as many wreck sites as we could - we were guided by the book "Air War South Atlantic" by Ethell and Price. We looked many times for any evidence of the Puma over Lively Island (which if memory serves me correctly was apparently shot down over Choiseul Sound) but never found anything. It was the only one we looked for which we never found.
Marcantilan
14th Jun 2018, 18:17
I went to the Falklands for the first time in December 1993 as a member of a Sea King SAR crew. The crew had an interest in 'aircraft wreck tourism' and sought out as many wreck sites as we could - we were guided by the book "Air War South Atlantic" by Ethell and Price. We looked many times for any evidence of the Puma over Lively Island (which if memory serves me correctly was apparently shot down over Choiseul Sound) but never found anything. It was the only one we looked for which we never found.
Excellent info! Thanks a lot!
Heathrow Harry
14th Jun 2018, 18:27
Excellent info! Thanks a lot!
hope to be there later this year... if poss we'll look around
Marcantilan
22nd Oct 2018, 18:47
https://www.infobae.com/sociedad/2018/10/22/guerra-de-malvinas-documentos-britanicos-revelan-el-misterio-del-helicoptero-argentino-que-desaparecio-en-una-mision-de-rescate/
The investigation in the local news (the top ranked and most viewed online newspaper in Argentina)
A pic of the handsome looking Marcantilan is in the middle of the article.
Regards!
Whinging Tinny
23rd Oct 2018, 15:49
Marcantilian,
Would you like to quantify the following statement from your article and supply proof?
Ya en las balsas, los aviones no tuvieron ningún reparo, en su última pasada, en disparar sobre las balsas.
Marcantilan
23rd Oct 2018, 16:33
Oh no, it is not my article. I am just mentioned on it. Regarding the rafts, I am with Dave Morgan's versión (Hostile Skies).
UPDATE: The author of the article (again, is not my article) is going to remove the part about the raft attack by British palnes.
Regards,
Whinging Tinny
24th Oct 2018, 01:26
Hi Marcantilan,
Thanks for the update.
It doesn't do anyone any favours from either side when baseless stuff like that is written.
Apart from that, the rest of the article is quite interesting.
WT.
Navaleye
24th Oct 2018, 07:21
I'm going to the Falklands in February with my hiking gear. Where should I look?
pr00ne
24th Oct 2018, 10:49
Navaleye,
Off any beaten track or road, VERY carefully everywhere you tread...
nazca_steve
13th Feb 2020, 23:43
Very interesting info TEEEJ. I am going to contact Griffiths911 (I know him) to try to clear the picture.
Hello all,
I have been researching the Canberra B-108 shoot down for over 10 years, and sometimes come across references to the nose wheel on Lively as possibly being from it. It seems that the Canberra crashed somewhere south of Whale Point and north of Lively Island, because some wreckage washed up at the former location over the years. Whether or not some ended up on Lively Island seems unlikely to me. I spoke with a local whose Dad lived on Lively for many years after my trip down to the Falklands last October. He said there had been some aircraft wreckage there from the Dagger C-433 piloted by Jose Ardiles but knew nothing of any Puma or Canberra pieces.
I hope eventually both the fate of the AE-505 and B-108 wrecks can be resolved.
Asturias56
14th Feb 2020, 07:48
"Off any beaten track or road, VERY carefully everywhere you tread..."
talk to the locals - they know where any mines are
even only suspected areas are roped off and have warning signs - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_mines_in_the_Falkland_Islands I don't think anyone has been hurt in many years........... 6 peopel were killed or injured demining straight after the war but only one minor injury in recent years (a Zimbabwean de-miner)
"Many of the Falkland Islanders opposed the demining operation. They stated that as the mine fields were clearly marked and there was little demand for the land it would be more cost effective and better for the environment for the mines to remain. There are fears that opening up mine fields to tourists and farmers will lead to habitat destruction."
NutLoose
14th Feb 2020, 13:18
see
https://www.facebook.c@m/pg/TheCanberraExperience/posts/?ref=page_internal
Replace the @ with an O
Mogwi
14th Feb 2020, 15:25
Navaleye,
Off any beaten track or road, VERY carefully everywhere you tread...
When I was back there this time last year, I was informed that the only minefields that were not now cleared were the ones around Stanley airfield. These were on/near the beaches and subject to shifting sands but are well marked.
Didn't spot a single three-legged sheep during my stay.
mog
Georg1na
14th Feb 2020, 17:25
Didn't spot a single three-legged sheep during my stay.
You prefer them with two legs if I remember correctly Mogs....................!!
TEEEJ
14th Feb 2020, 20:24
see
https://www.facebook.c@m/pg/TheCanberraExperience/posts/?ref=page_internal
Replace the @ with an O
Appears to be the remains of an A-4 Skyhawk drop tank.
Marcantilan
24th Nov 2021, 14:22
Hi all, could you ask if anyone has a copy of Flypast Magazine, September 1983 issue?
I am looking for a certain article there (Falklands Archeology). It looks like it mentions the AE-505 crash site.
Thanks a lot!
Mariano
SLXOwft
24th Nov 2021, 16:17
Mariano,
I have PM'ed you with a possible source for a copy.
Thread drift but have you read Dr Jorge Boveda's book in the Latin America at War series on the Armada's Operations in the Falklands/Malvinas conflict. If so, do you recommend it?
Marcantilan
24th Nov 2021, 21:01
Thanks a lot!
About Jorge Boveda´s book, well, I know Jorge and I am the one who pointed Jorge to Helion. The book is good, focused in the Argentine Navy culture. It is a new approach to the conflict.
Best!
Mariano
Traffic_Is_Er_Was
25th Nov 2021, 10:30
There are fears that opening up mine fields to tourists and farmers will lead to habitat destruction.
Only in localised craters.
Marcantilan
9th Dec 2021, 19:55
Well, finally I obtained the copy of the Flypast Magazine (thanks a lot all involved!). A map was in the magazine, and its source was an official map from 49 EOD Sqn Det (RE). The Puma was located NW of Lively.
Also, I have a copy of DEFE 48/1169 (Reconstruction of the air war during Op Corporate) and, again: Lively.
Keep searching!
Marcantilan
23rd Dec 2021, 20:32
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/623x769/260889932_1120657475408857_8897667986824372927_n_8e54adc0bc4 2788e68c594d3a953970d778fc3c0.jpg
Flypast Mag
This is the map, based in the RE map. Mogwi
The Canberra marked on Lively (#15) must be Ardile´s Dagger.
#14 is the Puma I am searching for.
Best!
Mogwi
23rd Dec 2021, 22:41
Thanks Marcantilan, that fits with my intelligence.
Mog
Marcantilan
3rd Nov 2022, 14:15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CubQsl_H9Jc
A short video-message. We are looking for them!
NutLoose
3rd Nov 2022, 15:45
9 may 82 shot down by SAM Sea Dart HMS Coventry during rescue of fishing boat Narwall survivors. (1Lt Buschiazzo, Lt Fiorito & Sgt Dimotta killed)
Here is a thought, If you know where it departed from and one assumes they would be more or less be directly tracking towards where the Narwal was hit, which one assumes transmitted its position when attacked, could you not draw a line from the departure point to the ships location and would it not narrow down the search area on the Island? it would be a starting point.
Meanwhile, the Argentine fishing boat Narwal was sailing at 52º 45' S and 58º 02' W, it was attacked by two Sea Harriers, (Fl Lt Morgan and Lt Cdr Batt), with bombs and cannons; then, when some of her crew had abandoned ship, she was boarded by a helicopter, (Lt Cdr Pollok of 846 Sgdn Hermes), and captured by commando personnel. The Narwal sank the next day while she was being towed. Among the prisoners, twenty-five in all, one died, and twelve were injured.
https://www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/0109/1084.html
Adding to it, Sadly it appears the Puma came down at sea. From the same article
The Helicopter Puma AE-505 that was shot down when they were going to the place where the fishing boat NARWAL was sinking to rescue the survivors, was shot down by a Sea Dart missile fired from the frigate Coventry on May 9, 1982, the remains of the personnel and The aircraft were not found because they fell into the sea in the vicinity of the Isla de los Leones Marinos. They were decorated with the medal "The Argentine Nation for Valor in Combat" (Post Mortem)
Marcantilan
3rd Nov 2022, 15:58
Hi!
The helicopter, like any army helicopter, more or less followed the coastline. So much so as not to get lost, and so as not to fly over the sea. There is no radar track, but we know the flight plan, the time of take-off and the exact time it was hit by HMS Coventry's Sea Dart.
We also know the position of HMS Coventry, the distance from the ship to the target and the time of flight of the missile.
With these data, the search location is north of Lively. More or less.
Best!
Mariano
NutLoose
3rd Nov 2022, 16:20
I take it you are aware of these pics of the Puma outside the Governors house BTW
https://www.flickr.com/search/?group_id=11022572%40N00&view_all=1&text=helicopter
Marcantilan
3rd Nov 2022, 16:29
Yes, the Coast Guard one!
But it has a connection with this story. That helo (the SAR one) went out of service due to a near impact (naval ordenance) that night. So the order to launch for the SAR mission went to the AAF. The AAF refused to flight (they considered the mission very risky), so Menendez ordered the Army to flew that SAR mission.
The rest is history.
Best,
Mariano
Sloppy Link
3rd Nov 2022, 17:56
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/623x769/260889932_1120657475408857_8897667986824372927_n_8e54adc0bc4 2788e68c594d3a953970d778fc3c0.jpg
Flypast Mag
This is the map, based in the RE map. Mogwi
The Canberra marked on Lively (#15) must be Ardile´s Dagger.
#14 is the Puma I am searching for.
Best!
Scout at Pebble Island? Don’t think that is accurate.
NutLoose
4th Nov 2022, 12:38
I can see the problem, you have a map saying it is on the Lively Island area
HMS Coventry says
Within hours of the attack on the Narwal, with Coventry now beginning more shore bombardment, Broadsword passed contact information on a target moving across East Falkland (Broadsword’s radar had far superior moving target indication against ground clutter); Coventry fired another Sea Dart and downed SA.330L Puma AE-505 of Combat Aviation Battalion 601 over Choiseul sound, 13 nautical miles away from the ship. The Puma had been tasked with finding the Narwal after the trawler had made a distress call during the SHAR attack. This was the first confirmed successful engagement by the Sea Dart system, as the impact and explosion were clearly visible, though no trace of the Puma’s wreckage or the three crew were ever found. Confidence in the Sea Dart system increased.
https://www.hmscoventry.co.uk/d118/falklands/
Then you have the location in the Narwal report, which infers the island of the lions, which is Sealions?
The Helicopter Puma AE-505 that was shot down when they were going to the place where the fishing boat NARWAL was sinking to rescue the survivors, was shot down by a Sea Dart missile fired from the frigate Coventry on May 9, 1982, the remains of the personnel and The aircraft were not found because they fell into the sea in the vicinity of the Isla de los Leones Marinos. They were decorated with the medal "The Argentine Nation for Valor in Combat" (Post Mortem)
https://www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/0109/1084.html
Marcantilan
4th Nov 2022, 13:00
Hi NutLoose,
Yes, the old idea was the helo was downed at sea. In fact, the ARG Army idea was the helo was near Sea Lion Island (and they have a painting with that info!)
But new evidence (Coventry BoI, REME map, post war reports of wrecks, Ghurka´s survey of Lively, Ewen ST testimony, and many others) suggests the helo crashed over land or, at least, near the coast. As hard evidence, a Puma propeller was found in that position a couple of years after the war.
Best,
Mariano