Cathay Pacific: Penny wise, Pound/Dollar foolish

[mngmt mole]

This is a reprint from an earlier thread, but I thought it was a good reminder as we are in the middle of "negotiations" (...yea, right). A good illustration of the small and petty mindedness of our management, who showed complete contempt and disrespect to the Captains of the airline this past CNY (and to all the other ranks of pilots, who one day would hope to be Captains themselves, hopefully at another airline that respects and treats them better):

Cathay penny and pound foolish:


Cost of Captain's Bonus Expressed in kgs of Fuel per Flight
(All values in HK$)

$35,000 x 950 Captains = $33,250,000 (US $4,290,323)

Average number of flights per year: 172,000 (Cathay Online Fact Sheet)

Average amount of bonus per flight: $193.31 (US $24.94)

December 2017 Jet-A Price per Litre: $4.10
Fuel Price per kilogram: $5.25

Cost of bonus in kgs of fuel per flight: 36.8 kgs

It's hard to quantify these things precisely, but my instinct tells me that the difference in fuel savings between highly motivated pilots and those who feel demoralized would be significantly greater than 37 kgs of fuel per sector.

Using the B777-300ER as an example:
- one minute in the cruise is equal to about 100 kgs
- one minute of taxi uses about 33 kgs

A highly motivated flight crew using every trick in the book could probably save in the order of 200 to 1,000 kgs per flight depending on the circumstances.

Judging by the tone of the posts contained within this thread, our Captains feel very betrayed and I sense that their motivation is at an all-time low. If I am correct, then the attempt to save HK $33,250,000 (US $4,290,323) may actually result in losses that are several multiples greater than the initial amount saved.

[mngmt mole]

It is worth mentioning, that since this was first published, the price of fuel has increased almost 25%. So the "cost" of a Captain using his discretion in how the flight is managed now would be that much greater to the CX bottom line. Basically, if you won't pay us and treat us properly, then CX won't have the money for their executive bonuses either. They can all burn.

[backtothegrindstone]

This is a reprint from an earlier thread, but I thought it was a good reminder as we are in the middle of "negotiations" (...yea, right). A good illustration of the small and petty mindedness of our management, who showed complete contempt and disrespect to the Captains of the airline this past CNY (and to all the other ranks of pilots, who one day would hope to be Captains themselves, hopefully at another airline that respects and treats them better):

Cathay penny and pound foolish:


Cost of Captain's Bonus Expressed in kgs of Fuel per Flight
(All values in HK$)

$35,000 x 950 Captains = $33,250,000 (US $4,290,323)

Average number of flights per year: 172,000 (Cathay Online Fact Sheet)

Average amount of bonus per flight: $193.31 (US $24.94)

December 2017 Jet-A Price per Litre: $4.10
Fuel Price per kilogram: $5.25

Cost of bonus in kgs of fuel per flight: 36.8 kgs

It's hard to quantify these things precisely, but my instinct tells me that the difference in fuel savings between highly motivated pilots and those who feel demoralized would be significantly greater than 37 kgs of fuel per sector.

Using the B777-300ER as an example:
- one minute in the cruise is equal to about 100 kgs
- one minute of taxi uses about 33 kgs

A highly motivated flight crew using every trick in the book could probably save in the order of 200 to 1,000 kgs per flight depending on the circumstances.

Judging by the tone of the posts contained within this thread, our Captains feel very betrayed and I sense that their motivation is at an all-time low. If I am correct, then the attempt to save HK $33,250,000 (US $4,290,323) may actually result in losses that are several multiples greater than the initial amount saved.


Once again I will say this. You Captains brind it on yourselves. All the Capt’s I fly with do RETI, but say I don’t usually do this- bull2341.

Still in training- extending FDP when diverted etc . What a joke

you get what you deserve and what’s coming .

[mngmt mole]

oh, you again.

[schweizer2]

Once again I will say this. You Captains brind it on yourselves. All the Capt’s I fly with do RETI, but say I don’t usually do this- bull2341.

Still in training- extending FDP when diverted etc . What a joke

you get what you deserve and what’s coming .



From an outsider point of view, I assume you work for CX as an SO or FO.

Is telling Captains that they deserve what is coming really necessary?
Surely what is "coming" to them is going to affect you more in the long run then those who will retire much sooner than yourself?

Call me crazy but if someone of a higher ranking in my company gets his contract terms and conditions destroyed, I'd be very worried about my own future!

It is no secret that I want nothing more than to return to HK, though, I am sure I am not missing out on anything whilst not flying with you.

[backtothegrindstone]

From an outsider point of view, I assume you work for CX as an SO or FO.

Is telling Captains that they deserve what is coming really necessary?
Surely what is "coming" to them is going to affect you more in the long run then those who will retire much sooner than yourself?

Call me crazy but if someone of a higher ranking in my company gets his contract terms and conditions destroyed, I'd be very worried about my own future!

It is no secret that I want nothing more than to return to HK, though, I am sure I am not missing out on anything whilst not flying with you.

Completely understand what you saying,
but if captains are taking up Training positions during a Training Ban...... who’s fault is it ?
I am a SO, medium experience ( turboprop) and have been in Contract Compliance and Traning Ban since I joined.
TB has hurt the company but has also hurt people waiting for upgrades. The unfortunate thing is that SO’s that will sit now until 5 years to see a upgrade are paying for it big time. We earn the less and no upgrades in sight?

FO’s waiting for command are all on housing and don’t care about money.

Captains extending FDP while diverted to VMMC where they should of walked off the AC due to fatigue are not helping the cause

hence I say there own fault! They had the most to loose, and loose they will.
Its sad but true. Leadership comes from above. And these “captains “ are not showing it.

Still how many trainers ???

[Scoreboard]

How about quittng bttgs......since i know you dont bring anything to my cockpit?....you signed on when everyone here was saying dont come.....stupid person is what you appear to be now that you are arrved at CX with your moderate turboprop time. Cant log anything for 5 years......how bright are you?....and then you try to lecture Captains......

[backtothegrindstone]

How about quittng bttgs......since i know you dont bring anything to my cockpit?....you signed on when everyone here was saying dont come.....stupid person is what you appear to be now that you are arrved at CX with your moderate turboprop time. Cant log anything for 5 years......how bright are you?....and then you try to lecture Captains......

the funny thing is I have more time / experience than most of your RQ Pilot’s that you leave in charge while you sleep. But who cares about safety, let a inexperienced RQ and a “ inexperienced SO “ fly when they dog tired through the weather etc. RightO Capt: leadership from above!

Just remember most of the local guys and all SO’s actually don’t care about your earnings/housing/ pictures you show them on board of your yachts etc......

yes i I made a mistake coming here. I agree. I’m waiting for a start date. But you ? You will probably b1tch and moan your career away here. Without housing and working harder!

[raven11]

BTTGS

For goodness sake...get some rest and stay away from the keyboard....

On second thought...please keep at it. You’re demonstrating what a shrinking hiring pool delivers.

[schweizer2]

Completely understand what you saying,
but if captains are taking up Training positions during a Training Ban...... who’s fault is it ?
I am a SO, medium experience ( turboprop) and have been in Contract Compliance and Traning Ban since I joined.
TB has hurt the company but has also hurt people waiting for upgrades. The unfortunate thing is that SO’s that will sit now until 5 years to see a upgrade are paying for it big time. We earn the less and no upgrades in sight?

FO’s waiting for command are all on housing and don’t care about money.

Captains extending FDP while diverted to VMMC where they should of walked off the AC due to fatigue are not helping the cause

hence I say there own fault! They had the most to loose, and loose they will.
Its sad but true. Leadership comes from above. And these “captains “ are not showing it.

Still how many trainers ???




You do see the irony of blaming the captains right?
As long as someone is willing to sign a worse contract *wink wink*, there is no stopping a company from offering rubbish terms and conditions!

At the end of the day, a captain in the company cannot stop you from signing your name on the contract offered to YOU by the company.

[crwkunt roll]

They had the most to loose, and loose they will.
Tighten up young fellow.

[backtothegrindstone]

You do see the irony of blaming the captains right?
As long as someone is willing to sign a worse contract *wink wink*, there is no stopping a company from offering rubbish terms and conditions!

At the end of the day, a captain in the company cannot stop you from signing your name on the contract offered to YOU by the company.


ah yes us signing the C scale contract.
What about B scale guys ? Are they to blame to?

Point fingers and we point back.
What about the Capt that are STILL in training after being stiffed 35000 or your ARAPA under attack ? Not to blame right?

Remember SO “C scalers” will soon be the majority.

[bm330]

Remember SO “C scalers” will soon be the majority.

And if they're cut from the same self-serving, petulant cloth as you, you might eventually succeed in collectively destroying your career. There won't be an Airline worth working for, but you'll certainly have showed all those old guys.

[YeahNahYeah]

See my post in the tax advice thread about transfer pricing - what does it matter about the additional expense of the revenue is going to another member in the Swire conglomerate? Wasting fuel would only make the other's numbers look better.

The only thing they can't book is time and customer sentiment, so hit those...

[nike]

BTTGS but if captains are taking up Training positions during a Training Ban...... who’s fault is it ?
I am a SO, medium experience ( turboprop) and have been in Contract Compliance and Traning Ban since I joined.
TB has hurt the company but has also hurt people waiting for upgrades. The unfortunate thing is that SO’s that will sit now until 5 years to see a upgrade are paying for it big time. We earn the less and no upgrades in sight?

I’m confused by your posts....are you wanting Captains to not be in training....or you want more trainers?

[Apple Tree Yard]

Back on topic (and ignoring the troll). I have been keeping a rough cost analysis since CNY. I can be fairly certain that my "decisions" made during the flights i've operated since Feb have already resulted in about twice the amount CX management stole from me. I can also safely state that the same amount again will be consumed about every three months until next CNY. Effectively, I will have cost them 4-5 times the amount stolen from me. I hope every Captain in the company is sending the same message. (and btw, every "decision" that results in this cost is legitimate, just not using my discretion in favor of the Company).

[wongsuzie]

Lose or loose? Wow..

Now I am scared.

[main_dog]

They had the most to loose, and loose they will.
Are they to blame to?

Me to Suzie 😬

[wongsuzie]

Am checking the QRH if the 2 words appear in any sentence/paragraph.It's worrying that Biggles cannot differentiate between the two.