Quality of life USA/EU (Easyjet/BA/Ryanair)

[SextanteUK]

Hi everyone,

spaniard here flying E145 in the US (soon becoming a citizen). Love the country and the culture, and love the aviation here, BUT my family is in Europe, and distance sucks. After 10 years living overseas, I'm thinking about my options, and I definitely wanna be close to my parents to take care of them in the future.

It seems like the perfect time to be a pilot everywhere, and here in the US even more. T&Cs in here are quite impressive honestly, but not everything is money in this life (family). Although I need enough to buy my parents a small cozy house somewhere haha. I don't need much.

Once I receive a few "you're retarded" and similar compliments, I would like to hear from you guys what you think about the subject. Quality of life in those 3 carriers long term, earning potential, stability, etc.....

As an option I could fly here for a couple years and try coming back as a DEC, if that was still an option in the future.


I know the political situation is tense in Europe, but so is all over the world, including here in the US. Brexit worries me since the UK is big, aviation wise.

Thoughts?

[hunterboy]

I certainly wouldn’t recommend BA. Post Brexit, who knows? Except that it won’t be better. I live in Spain, and can tell you not to work here....but you would know that anyway-unless you can wangle a slot flying Ortega around .
I would stay put.

[bringbackthe80s]

Not much to say, you will regret it dearly if you do it. Your choice

[dlcmdrx]

Why would you do such a stupid thing.
It is very clear you really dont appreciate the enormous privilege youve had in being an outsider and having the right to work in that aviation heaven called the US.
Im a spaniard also with FAA license but no right to work in the US yet and just telling you, you would be crazy to get back to europe.
US is the pinacle of aviation, maybe some people in BA, Lufhtansa or Iberia which live in a bubble will tell you otherwise and that the country stinks to fried food but they dont know what real live is like. And that is the best case, in the worst case you end up at EZY/RYR or so earning 100k a year for a miserable roster and 90 hours a month..

Dont listen to those calling you retard and take your parents to the us, get into Fedex or the so and earn 400k a year and laugh all the way to the bank at all the EU pilot loosers who think USA is a bad country.

And most important of all, enjoy the FREEDOM you have in that country, you wont have that anywhere else.

In any case make sure you secure your citizenship first, you can always come back after that if you decide to screw up. It must be a blast having that blue eagle Passport.

[EMB-145LR]

I did exactly what you are contemplating. I left a US regional three years ago to join BA on the A320. A lot of those commenting don't appreciate the US pilots lifestyle. I am happier here than I have ever been because I live near family and I am home most nights. My life in the US consisted almost exclusively of four day trips. Some people love that, but it wasn't for me.

Many of my friends now fly for the big three in the US and make very good money. However, most are on eternal reserve, or get very junior schedules and are away a lot. I tend to nightstop two to three nights a month, and that's my choice. I haven't regretted my move once.

This is a very personal choice. For me, being at home was a very big deal. I think we're at a point where wages will have to rise in Europe too, certainly in the west. They won't hit the dizzying heights of the US majors, but once you factor in all of the costs that come out of your pay over there (insurance, tax, 401K etc) you're not that far off. A good friend of mine is a Captain at JetBlue. As you may know they have an agreement in principle for a new contract. He worked out his take home pay under the new deal, and while on paper the gross amount far exceeds what a BA captain makes, once he'd paid all of his deductions he was only receiving about 50% of the headline amount. That in turn was not much greater than a BA captain's take home pay.

If you plan to commute, I'd stay in the US. But if you want to live in base and you can be near family, do what is best for YOU. No one here can tell you what you really want, only you can.

[dirk85]

I only tell you this.
EZY currently have 23 FOs desperately asking for part time in a UK base.
Make your own assumptions.
Europe has a very little number of decent operations as of now. You would be always fatigued in any of the 3 you mention.

In my european base every FO asking for part time is getting it, no problem. Actually more part time positions available than pilots applying for it.

There is more to easyJet than UK bases...

[byrondaf]

If you've got the command hours and don't mind being Portugal based, easyJet are always recruiting captains there. Good pay, secure job and great people to fly with. Is it a tiring roster, yes. Will there be things that will annoy you about the company, yes. Would I work anywhere else doing shorthaul? no. Lots of base choices, lots of part time options and a great bunch of people to fly with. Oh and I think it's the amongst the best paid short haul gig going...

[SextanteUK]

I certainly wouldn’t recommend BA. Post Brexit, who knows? Except that it won’t be better. I live in Spain, and can tell you not to work here....but you would know that anyway-unless you can wangle a slot flying Ortega around .

I would stay put.


Yeah man, Spain is out of the question for me, Love my roots and my memories, but aviation there is depressing.


Why would you do such a stupid thing.

It is very clear you really dont appreciate the enormous privilege youve had in being an outsider and having the right to work in that aviation heaven called the US.

Im a spaniard also with FAA license but no right to work in the US yet and just telling you, you would be crazy to get back to europe.

US is the pinacle of aviation, maybe some people in BA, Lufhtansa or Iberia which live in a bubble will tell you otherwise and that the country stinks to fried food but they dont know what real live is like. And that is the best case, in the worst case you end up at EZY/RYR or so earning 100k a year for a miserable roster and 90 hours a month..

Dont listen to those calling you retard and take your parents to the us, get into Fedex or the so and earn 400k a year and laugh all the way to the bank at all the EU pilot loosers who think USA is a bad country.

In any case make sure you secure your citizenship first, you can always come back after that if you decide to screw up. It must be a blast having that blue eagle Passport.

Oh I see, is it really that clear?. You couldn't even imagine how much I appreciate my privilege, and what I've done to get here. But thanks for the aviation thoughts and perspective.

I did exactly what you are contemplating. I left a US regional three years ago to join BA on the A320. A lot of those commenting don't appreciate the US pilots lifestyle. I am happier here than I have ever been because I live near family and I am home most nights. My life in the US consisted almost exclusively of four day trips. Some people love that, but it wasn't for me.

This is a very personal choice. For me, being at home was a very big deal. I think we're at a point where wages will have to rise in Europe too, certainly in the west. They won't hit the dizzying heights of the US majors, but once you factor in all of the costs that come out of your pay over there (insurance, tax, 401K etc) you're not that far off. A good friend of mine is a Captain at JetBlue. As you may know they have an agreement in principle for a new contract. He worked out his take home pay under the new deal, and while on paper the gross amount far exceeds what a BA captain makes, once he'd paid all of his deductions he was only receiving about 50% of the headline amount. That in turn was not much greater than a BA captain's take home pay.

If you plan to commute, I'd stay in the US. But if you want to live in base and you can be near family, do what is best for YOU. No one here can tell you what you really want, only you can.

Thanks man, I appreciate your advice.

I know lot of people out there don't understand the family part, but for me is huge. At the same time money is a huge factor as well, so that I can take care of them....so it's a thin line really.

My asian friend tells me to be East Coast based and to commute to Europe. Here is easy to get some 14-15 days off per month, so it'd be doable short term, but long-term it must be a hard.

[SextanteUK]

In my european base every FO asking for part time is getting it, no problem. Actually more part time positions available than pilots applying for it.

There is more to easyJet than UK bases...

What base has in your opinion the best quality of life overall?

If you've got the command hours and don't mind being Portugal based, easyJet are always recruiting captains there. Good pay, secure job and great people to fly with. Is it a tiring roster, yes. Will there be things that will annoy you about the company, yes. Would I work anywhere else doing shorthaul? no. Lots of base choices, lots of part time options and a great bunch of people to fly with. Oh and I think it's the amongst the best paid short haul gig going...

Yeah I saw they are hiring there all the time, which makes me wonder why haha. I'm OK with having a tight schedule, but not sure if long term you'd get tired of that operation.

I've had the worst jobs you can have out there (non-aviation related), so I know how lucky I am being able to fly for a living, no complaints at all. Just trying to figure out my next step.

I've always liked Easyjet. I lived for a couple of years in Edinburgh and I flew to Madrid often. :)

[dirk85]

France, Italy and Germany have all very good contracts, good to great money, strong unions, plenty of part time options and decent benefits.
It's hard work but the roster is not bad (5 on 4 off where I am) and hours flown still acceptable (between 600 and 650 a year in my base for FOs and slightly more for Captains).
As Captain it is not easy to be hired straight to these countries, you might have to "suffer" somewhere else, but in a few years you should get a transfer, a part from the super popular bases, which might require a longer wait.

Quality of life depends on you, plenty of bases available in these countries.

What base has in your opinion the best quality of life overall?



Yeah I saw they are hiring there all the time, which makes me wonder why haha. I'm OK with having a tight schedule, but not sure if long term you'd get tired of that operation.

I've had the worst jobs you can have out there (non-aviation related), so I know how lucky I am being able to fly for a living, no complaints at all. Just trying to figure out my next step.

I've always liked Easyjet. I lived for a couple of years in Edinburgh and I flew to Madrid often. :)

[SextanteUK]

France, Italy and Germany have all very good contracts, good to great money, strong unions, plenty of part time options and decent benefits.
It's hard work but the roster is not bad (5 on 4 off where I am) and hours flown still acceptable (between 600 and 650 a year in my base for FOs and slightly more for Captains).
As Captain it is not easy to be hired straight to these countries, you might have to "suffer" somewhere else, but in a few years you should get a transfer, a part from the super popular bases, which might require a longer wait.

Quality of life depends on you, plenty of bases available in these countries.

I thought Easyjet was more of a 5/3 deal. But I guess each base can be quite different.

I lived in Germany for a few years and love it so much. Are those german bases big or not at all. Stable long-term?

Which country are you based at?

[tomuchwork]

Go for Easyjet, Portugal basing. Full CLA. What do you want more. Pretty impressive terms.

RYR might be ok as well, depends which base you get. As far as I understood you just "drove" the jungle jet(ERJ145) which would not qualify you as a direct entry captain(which would be favourable as here you get normally your first choice and a RYR direct contract). With the right base close to home RYR would be interesting. Salary wise(as an FO with some agency contract) you would most likely make more money as you did on the ERJ back in the US(as a skipper I assume).

Bottomline - try Easy. Most likely the right way to go with your experience. That way you just need to bite in the sour apple once....

[SextanteUK]

Go for Easyjet, Portugal basing. Full CLA. What do you want more. Pretty impressive terms.

RYR might be ok as well, depends which base you get. As far as I understood you just "drove" the jungle jet(ERJ145) which would not qualify you as a direct entry captain(which would be favourable as here you get normally your first choice and a RYR direct contract). With the right base close to home RYR would be interesting. Salary wise(as an FO with some agency contract) you would most likely make more money as you did on the ERJ back in the US(as a skipper I assume).

Bottomline - try Easy. Most likely the right way to go with your experience. That way you just need to bite in the sour apple once....
Thanks man!.

I actually don't fly part 121, it's a part 135 outfit and make more than 1st year on a regional haha. Weird but true.

Plan would be to "skip" being an FO in Europe, since I'm already a FO here. I'll try my best to get hired at Frontier, Allegiant, Spirit even Jetblue, get an upgrade, and then if it was still a possible path, try DEC. But this is just an idea, who knows what's gonna happen even next year.

Maybe it'd be worth it to start as SO the sooner, to work my way up from there.

Do you have to pay for your type rating at EZY?

[dirk85]

I thought Easyjet was more of a 5/3 deal. But I guess each base can be quite different.

I lived in Germany for a few years and love it so much. Are those german bases big or not at all. Stable long-term?

Which country are you based at?

Rosters can depend from country to country. UK and most of the network is 5/4/5/3 (5 on/4 off/5 on/3 off), in other countries (Italy) it is either 5/4 (with one month of random roster per year) or random for extra money. A few different variations.

In Germany at the moment there are two bases, both in Berlin (Hamburg is closing): Shoenefeld and Tegel. Shoenefeld has around 10 planes, and Tegel has just been opened following Air Berlin going out of business. TXL will have 25 planes within the end of the year, so yes, two big bases. Stability is anybody's guess, the company traditionally does not have a problem to close bases that are not profitable enough or worse losing money.

I am in Italy right now.

Not many DEC are hired (less than 50 last year), from a purely statistical point of view it is easier to join as FO and then upgrade (with the required experience it can take as little as 1 year to start the command process).

[FlyTCI]

I am a green card holder and have spent ten years on and off in the US, but I decided to move back to the Europe four years ago after having been away for a total of 13 years straight. I too hated having to cross the Atlantic to visit my family, especially once my siblings started to have kids and I missed the European way of life, in my view a simpler way of life.

I have a job allowing me to live anywhere in the world as I work a one month on/off schedule and I chose to live in southern Europe. After 2.5 years I decided to move to one of the few places in Europe with minimal tax (~9%) and with a great quality of life, something I personally never achieved in the US. I guess I just enjoy being around more like minded people and not living in what I feel nowadays, unfortunately, has become a police state, without the majority of its citizens realising it.

For someone who really feel they belong in the US, and very likely feel money is the most important thing in life, then the choice is easy. Stay in the US and reap the awesome benefits a major carrier over there currently (and most likely for a good while) will provide you with. I think few, if any pilot jobs in the world, matches those at the upper end of the spectrum in the US. At the moment I still have my GC, but I am moving closer and closer to the decision to give it up to get out of Uncle Sam’s long reaching tax grabbing hands.

I will most likely not make the kind of money currently on offer in the US, but, I make more than enough to live a comfortable life, and as long as I can stay on this level or higher I will retire quite comfortably too. Combine that with, to me as a European, a feeling of a more “resl” QOL back in Europe I personally couldn’t be happier. Sure, I would probably die in a bigger house sorrounded by more toys and more money in the bank had I stayed over there, but to me there’s more to life than “stuff”.

Before I get jumped on by defensive Americans who feel they live in the greatest country on earth, I perfectly understand and respect that they feel that way and that’s great, but we all see things through slightly different lenses which is what creates diversity on our planet. I feel like I have found my way home, despite not living in my country of birth, and I have no regrets.

It’s not an easy decision you face, and honestly, you very likely won’t fully know whether or not you made the right decision until you lie on your death bed, but that goes for many decisions in life. Best of luck no matter which path you choose.

[The Range]

And what about FedEx? They have a base in CGN.

[SextanteUK]

And what about FedEx? They have a base in CGN.

Yeah that'd be awesome, and I'm for sure gonna apply once I have enough hours, but making it to Fedex is not easy at all.

[SextanteUK]

My father will be 97 next month, and my mother is 91.
I commute to the UK once a month.
My brother felt the same way I did, and moved to Australia.
I think it very sad for them that their two children both upped and left.
But that’s what socialism brings - shared misery.
Once my parents are gone, I doubt I’ll visit the UK much, if ever.
I hardly recognize the place anymore.

The way I see it is.
Ryanair is Allegiant.
EasyJet is Spirit.
Jet2 is Frontier.
British Airways is currently Jet Blue but without the customer service.
Norwegian likes to think they are Southwest, but they aren’t even close.
Only the US wages are twice as much, for two thirds the work.

But the way I think things are heading is.
British Airways short haul will be Vueling.
British Airways long haul will be Norwegian.

I wouldn’t trade places with anybody on the planet, for that of a US legacy / major / cargo carrier.

I agree when you say you barely recognize the UK, in my case Spain. Instead of growing as a society and improving work conditions, we're going backwards.
Hey Allegiant got a new contract and pay is quite high haha. And Frontier, they better do it fast.
Anyways, I get your point, I do. I appreciate your point of view.

[SextanteUK]

Rosters can depend from country to country. UK and most of the network is 5/4/5/3 (5 on/4 off/5 on/3 off), in other countries (Italy) it is either 5/4 (with one month of random roster per year) or random for extra money. A few different variations.

In Germany at the moment there are two bases, both in Berlin (Hamburg is closing): Shoenefeld and Tegel. Shoenefeld has around 10 planes, and Tegel has just been opened following Air Berlin going out of business. TXL will have 25 planes within the end of the year, so yes, two big bases. Stability is anybody's guess, the company traditionally does not have a problem to close bases that are not profitable enough or worse losing money.

I am in Italy right now.

Not many DEC are hired (less than 50 last year), from a purely statistical point of view it is easier to join as FO and then upgrade (with the required experience it can take as little as 1 year to start the command process).


Hmmm that's what I thought about DEC/FO. But right now this is my place, I jut got the ERJ job, and could probably get an upgrade in 1 year. Old experienced captains you can learn from, retired from 3 decades in p121.

5/4 is actually nice. But those 5/3....long term must be hard on the body, going up and down 6 times or so per day. Long duty days I'd imagine.

[SextanteUK]

I am a green card holder and have spent ten years on and off in the US, but I decided to move back to the Europe four years ago after having been away for a total of 13 years straight. I too hated having to cross the Atlantic to visit my family, especially once my siblings started to have kids and I kissed the European way of life, in my view a simpler way of life.

I have a job allowing me to live anywhere in the world as I work a one month on/off schedule and I chose to live in southern Europe. After 2.5 years I decided to move to one of the few places in Europe with minimal tax (~9%) and with a great quality of life, something I personally never achieved in the US. I guess I just enjoy being around more like minded people and not living in what I feel nowadays, unfortunately, has become a police state, without the majority of its citizens realising it.

For someone who really feel they belong in the US, and very likely feel money is the most important thing in life, then the choice is easy. Stay in the US and reap the awesome benefits a major carrier over there currently (and most likely for a good while) will provide you with. I think few, if any pilot jobs in the world, matches those at the upper end of the spectrum in the US. At the moment I still have my GC, but I am moving closer and closer to the decision to give it up to get out of Uncle Sam’s long reaching tax grabbing hands.

I will most likely not make the kind of money currently on offer in the US, but, I make more than enough to live a comfortable life, and as long as I can stay on this level or higher I will retire quite comfortably too. Combine that with, to me as a European, a feeling of a more “resl” QOL back in Europe I personally couldn’t be happier. Sure, I would probably die in a bigger house sorrounded by more toys and more money in the bank had I stayed over there, but to me there’s more to life than “stuff”.

It’s not an easy decision you face, and honestly, you very likely won’t fully know whether or not you made the right decision until you lie on your death bed, but that goes for many decisions in life. Best of luck no matter which path you choose.


Thanks for sharing!. I love being here to be honest, but I also love the old Europe atmosphere and way of doing things, so I guess I'm kinda flexible there.
Only reason why I care that much about money is because of my parents/sister. They got me here, they paid everything and did sacrifice a lot, so I have a moral debt with them. I couldn't afford to live like a king while they live in a tiny apartment because I sucked all the money to get where I got.
So yeah, not an easy decision man.

[VinRouge]

Thanks for sharing!. I love being here to be honest, but I also love the old Europe atmosphere and way of doing things, so I guess I'm kinda flexible there.
Only reason why I care that much about money is because of my parents/sister. They got me here, they paid everything and did sacrifice a lot, so I have a moral debt with them. I couldn't afford to live like a king while they live in a tiny apartment because I sucked all the money to get where I got.
So yeah, not an easy decision man.

Why not consider business jet? Netjets Europe are recruiting I believe.

[The Range]

Quality of life: Europe
Money: USA
Hard choice.
How come your are not considering Iberia. It's Better than Ryanair and easyJet

[dirk85]

Money in Iberia for new entrants is beyond dreadful, less than the two companies mentioned.

[dlcmdrx]

And you can end up waiting 23 years ( literally ) for an upgrade to the LS

[SextanteUK]

Why not consider business jet? Netjets Europe are recruiting I believe.

I read about them and they have a ton of 10 year FOs waiting for upgrade, meaning your stuck with a FO salary for a long long time. No bueno :)

[SextanteUK]

Quality of life: Europe
Money: USA
Hard choice.
How come your are not considering Iberia. It's Better than Ryanair and easyJet

I lived right by Barajas airport my whole life. I would walk everyday around Iberia hangars, looking at those airplanes and dreaming. I was a ramper for Iberia, for years, and it was my dream really. BUT then I grew up, I started looking at numbers, did some research, etc.....and lost all the respect I had for them. Clickair, Gestair, Vueling, Level.....no thanks. Pay is an insult

[SextanteUK]

Quality of life: Europe, really?
Work all the time for very little pay, and get taxed to death.
All to fund your own continent’s demise.
EG: Spanish LCC Level A330 f/o €2300/month. Disgraceful.
That’s approaching third world status.

Money and time off, and above all freedom: USA.
Easy choice really.


Not an easy choice, not at all. But you're right, time OFF and money here is ridiculous. You have major captains working 11-12 days a month, making 350k. Insane

[zondaracer]

EG: Spanish LCC Level A330 f/o €2300/month. Disgraceful.
That’s approaching third world status.

Money and time off, and above all freedom: USA.
Easy choice really.







Since when does Level hire their own pilots? It’s currenty all Iberia crews. Do they pay differently if you are flying a plane that says level vs Iberia? Serious question cuz I don’t know.

[zondaracer]

When SextanteUK looks at my backyard he always says, “see? This is quality of life!”

[SextanteUK]

When SextanteUK looks at my backyard he always says, “see? This is quality of life!”
"always". I said that twice :ugh:

[dboy]

As a european i can say in the US there are very good restaurants!!! So the junk food story is a bit of a cliché.

It is a very difficult choice you have to make. Personally if you can reach the 350K a year, just stay in the US. (But how long would it take for you to reach that number???). Much less taxes to be paid and i believe if you have money, US can be a really nice place to live. Quality of life in general is better in Europe for common man. But as a pilot in Europe.....quality of life.....does that exist?

[Start Fore]

As a high earner you'll definitely have a better quality of life in the US, where things like earning money are encouraged!

Quite the opposite in Euroland. You'll be punished and frowned upon.

[beachbumflyer]

And who's fault is the lower salaries for European pilots?
The pilots.

[Smooth Airperator]

Whose going to clean the planes and airport toilets if it's not "third world animals"? in days gone by it was your mum and dad.

[Timpsi]

In my opinion, if you only look at what quality of life you get in Europe vs. the US I'd say Europe is better. That depends of coruse where in Europe you live. Europe consists of both wealthy and not so wealthy countries, so just saying "Europe" isn't really correct.

If you want to make money and have a low living cost, the US by far. Less taxation and where nobody will judge you for having a large paycheck, unlike where I'm from where you'll be punished and taxed in any way possible. In the end, I feel like you get to keep way more money in the US than in Europe generally, and the governments of some countries in Europe are more lefty than in the US. Here in Sweden, we have a good quality of life (so far, but not for much longer as it's rapidly getting worse) but you'll be taxed to death compared to the US.

I guess it all comes down to what's mroe important to YOU. But I really hope you make the right decision for what you think is best for you!

[hunterboy]

There are ways of keeping a high percentage of your salary in Europe, ( Portuguese NHR scheme , for example), but they require a commute or hassle, which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place.

[EMB-145LR]

All this talk of low tax in the US is slightly inaccurate. When I flew over there I took home a smaller percentage of my pay cheque than I do in the UK. While income tax is less, people constantly forget about the added cost of medical insurance. I took home roughly 60% of my total pay in America. At BA I worked out that I take home about c.66-67% of my total pay. That’s not on a cadets salary, that’s on a figure not all that far below six figures a year.

As for all this nonsense about Europe becoming a third world country; well, while I enjoyed my time living in the US, I know where I would rather live. I’m by no means a ‘liberal’, but I find life in Europe much more palatable. Yes, it has its problems, but I was very happy to return a few years ago.

I have no anti-American agenda, my wife is American. But it is a hugely divided nation, racism is still very much alive and well and I got fed up of the constant lack of culture or identity outside of many of the major cities. I tired of driving past strip mall after strip mall, biased TV ‘news’ (both left and right wing), and fast food. The cities are some of the greatest in the world, but day to day life lacked any real character FOR ME. (Emphasis on this being my own PERSONAL opinion).

[NEDude]

If you are a soon to be U.S. citizen, make your decision regarding where you want to live BEFORE you take the step to acquire U.S. citizenship. If you are unaware, the United States is one of only two countries in the world which practices "citizenship based taxation". That means you are legally obligated to file a U.S. tax return and pay U.S. taxes regardless of where in the world you live or make your money. There are some things which can limit your U.S. tax liability, such as the foreign earned income exclusion and tax treaties. But none of those cover unearned income such as investment dividends. Even if you ultimately owe no U.S. tax, you must still file a U.S. tax return and prove via the numerous rules and treaties that you owe no U.S. tax. You are also required to annually report all non-U.S. financial accounts to which you have access to the U.S. Treasury Department Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (The FBAR form). Failure to do so carries SIGNIFICANT penalties and THEY ARE enforced. This not only includes your personal accounts, but any corporate accounts to which you might have signatory access. Lastly FATCA (Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act) is a law that requires all non-U.S. financial institutions to report their dealings with 'U.S. Persons' to the IRS. Again, failure on the banks part to do so carries significant penalties for the bank which the United States does have the ability to enforce. The consequence of FATCA is that many banks around the world have placed limitations of services available to the so-called 'U.S. Persons', and some have completely shut off all dealings with people who have ties to the United States. Also be aware that these rules also apply to anyone who holds a U.S. Green Card, or who has held one in the past but failed to formally return it. Even if you retain your Spanish citizenship and are a dual citizen, you will still be obliged to comply with the above laws.

I am not trying to persuade you one way or another, but you need to be aware of the consequences of obtaining U.S. citizenship but then living some other place. Again, for you Green Card holders, the same rules apply to you unless you formally return your U.S. Green Card.

[SextanteUK]

If you are a soon to be U.S. citizen, make your decision regarding where you want to live BEFORE you take the step to acquire U.S. citizenship. If you are unaware, the United States is one of only two countries in the world which practices "citizenship based taxation". That means you are legally obligated to file a U.S. tax return and pay U.S. taxes regardless of where in the world you live or make your money. There are some things which can limit your U.S. tax liability, such as the foreign earned income exclusion and tax treaties. But none of those cover unearned income such as investment dividends. Even if you ultimately owe no U.S. tax, you must still file a U.S. tax return and prove via the numerous rules and treaties that you owe no U.S. tax. You are also required to annually report all non-U.S. financial accounts to which you have access to the U.S. Treasury Department Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (The FBAR form). Failure to do so carries SIGNIFICANT penalties and THEY ARE enforced. This not only includes your personal accounts, but any corporate accounts to which you might have signatory access. Lastly FATCA (Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act) is a law that requires all non-U.S. financial institutions to report their dealings with 'U.S. Persons' to the IRS. Again, failure on the banks part to do so carries significant penalties for the bank which the United States does have the ability to enforce. The consequence of FATCA is that many banks around the world have placed limitations of services available to the so-called 'U.S. Persons', and some have completely shut off all dealings with people who have ties to the United States. Also be aware that these rules also apply to anyone who holds a U.S. Green Card, or who has held one in the past but failed to formally return it. Even if you retain your Spanish citizenship and are a dual citizen, you will still be obliged to comply with the above laws.

I am not trying to persuade you one way or another, but you need to be aware of the consequences of obtaining U.S. citizenship but then living some other place. Again, for you Green Card holders, the same rules apply to you unless you formally return your U.S. Green Card.

I was aware of all this information yep. Thanks for sharing :-)

[SextanteUK]

A country as big as China with some 350 million people or so....and all these super smart guys can say is....fast food will kill you, school shootings, war addicts, etc.....Using the same reasoning principles you used---> you're retarded. And you know nothing about this Country.

To the other 95% of people commenting on the thread, thanks a lot for all the advice and perspective added, much appreciated :-)

[zondaracer]

300 killed in Western European Islamic Terrorism since 2014 compared to 273 killed in US school shootings. That’s just kids shooting kids in schools and before you start looking at statistics for gun violence/killings from the remaining 265 million guns in the USA.

i know where I feel safer...
SextanteUK is more concerned about his teenage sons losing their innocence to their high school teachers in the US.

[SextanteUK]

Indeed. Not only they need snacks and books now they also need condoms.

[neilki]

Interesting discussion. I'l add a bit if I may.

I have lived in both London & New York for several years, Currently a CA in the CRJ 9 at a large wholly owned US regional.

Cost of living: While the US is cheaper for goods, services can be much more expensive.

Europeans generally only see Federal US tax rates. We also pay State and local income taxes, sales & property taxes. These are significant. -tax is NOT included in the published cost of goods, as VAT is in the EU.

Don’t forget to tip 20% when you go out. Dinner, drinks, parking et al.

My direct taxation takes ~45% of gross income. Indirect taxes another 20% or so.

Healthcare is expensive, and only somewhat subsidized by your employer. Vacations are paltry compared to the EU, and time off is 'Earned' and used (or not!) the following year.

US Regionals exist because of.a 'Scope Clause" in major airlines Pilot contracts. We fly the same routes as the majors do, in the same uniforms and same paint on the plane.

US ULCCs are really upping their game. The US does not have a consistent history of low cost carriers, so to a large extent they're just starting out. Sprits new Contract and JetBlues' TA put a narrow body airbus CA on par with the majors. Southwest has a $500k club.

In order to be interviewed a US major or legacy you need a 4 year degree. Prestige Aviation colleges here quote $250k for tuition. You have to fund that, as well as live for 4 years.
The people getting hired right at mainline now have Masters Degrees ...!
Converting EASA to FAA is a cakewalk. The other way around isn't.

Employee travel benefits for the US carriers are very good indeed.

To have the choice is paradoxically difficult…

[FlyTCI]

One thing, which I don’t think has been mentioned previously, is the cost of sending your kids to higher education. No real direct tuition cost in Europe, while in the US $100k/kid seems to be the norm and something most parents have to actively save for. Sure, there may be cheaper avenues such as online courses, but no matter who you twist it, higher education in the US is pricey. Maybe not a deciding factor, but still to be considered.

[bafanguy]

One thing, which I don’t think has been mentioned previously, is the cost of sending your kids to higher education. No real direct tuition cost in Europe, while in the US $100k/kid seems to be the norm and something most parents have to actively save for.

Yes, there is a "direct" cost: taxes.

"Free education" isn't free. In places where this phenomenon is alleged to exist...it doesn't. Someone paid because colleges are not charities.

Perhaps you spread the cost over an entire society where everyone pays for someone else's "free" education even if they have no kids getting the "free" college education.

You're OK with that ? You got scammed. Hilarious.

[FlyTCI]

Yes, there is a "direct" cost: taxes.

"Free education" isn't free. In places where this phenomenon is alleged to exist...it doesn't. Someone paid because colleges are not charities.

Perhaps you spread the cost over an entire society where everyone pays for someone else's "free" education even if they have no kids getting the "free" college education.

You're OK with that ? You got scammed. Hilarious.
Actually I didn’t get scammed. I live in one of the more modern European countries where I actually have an average tax of less than 10%, 0% as long as I don’t have kids, and I still get to send my future kids to free higher education. Think of Monaco but with a more normal lifestyle and much lower cost of living. Suck on that one!

Of course I know that the school system in Europe is funded by taxes. I watched my parents pay a ridiculous amount in taxes over their careers for things such as public schools/universities. My point was, in the US, you as a parent need to have the discipline/means to early on start saving if you want to send your kids for higher education. In Europe you don’t have to worry about whether or not you will be able to afford to send your kids to university.

[INNflight]

Yes, there is a "direct" cost: taxes.

"Free education" isn't free. In places where this phenomenon is alleged to exist...it doesn't. Someone paid because colleges are not charities.

Perhaps you spread the cost over an entire society where everyone pays for someone else's "free" education even if they have no kids getting the "free" college education.

You're OK with that ? You got scammed. Hilarious.

Right. That's why the US has the bestest and biggliest school system on the planet. Where teachers need to fund their own lesson materials and buy pens and paper for their students bcause nobody gives a rat's a$# unless they got money and go to private school.
The good ol' US of A. 'Freedom' and nothing but potholes.

[SextanteUK]

Actually I didn’t get scammed. I live in one of the more modern European countries where I actually have an average tax of less than 10%, 0% as long as I don’t have kids, and I still get to send my future kids to free higher education. Think of Monaco but with a more normal lifestyle and much lower cost of living. Suck on that one!

Of course I know that the school system in Europe is funded by taxes. I watched my parents pay a ridiculous amount in taxes over their careers for things such as public schools/universities. My point was, in the US, you as a parent need to have the discipline/means to early on start saving if you want to send your kids for higher education. In Europe you don’t have to worry about whether or not you will be able to afford to send your kids to university.

I gotta ask, where do you live!?

[bafanguy]

Right. That's why the US has the bestest and biggliest school system on the planet.

Nope...actually we don't. The elementary and secondary levels are rather poor. We get taxed at state, federal and local levels and don't get what we paid for. Just part of our cultural rot.

We're ALL scammed by government...one way or another.