View Full Version : Updating Part 61 School

21st May 2018, 01:40
I am considering eliminating or at least curtailing ground instruction for the back side of the E6B as well as the preparation of a navigation log for x-c students. Considering the advancements in navigation and communication these days, it seems an outdated method of flying. I'm wondering if anyone else has considered such and option. I checked the latest sample test questions on the FAA website and there are no questions regarding pilotage, dead reckoning or navigation logs.

5th Jun 2018, 07:33
So when it all goes wrong, nobody has a clue. In keeping with modern thinking!

5th Jun 2018, 15:45
I insist my students learn how to use a Real E6B, so they can understand and visualize wind effects. The back side is the easiest way to get Density Altitude and TAS, and the use of those functions is required for some test questions. Are you sure the examiner won't want to see a navigation log as part of the oral?

Finally, 61.105 requires it:

61.105 Aeronautical knowledge.(a)General. A person who is applying for a private pilot certificate must receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or complete a home-study course on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.
(b)Aeronautical knowledge areas.
(4) Use of aeronautical charts for VFR navigation using pilotage, dead reckoning, and navigation systems;

6th Jun 2018, 11:30
Just my 2 pence worth..

Having recently finished my PPL (A) training these are my take aways from it....

E6B - Very fiddly to get to grips with, granted once i'd gotten used to it it became easier. How ever don't touch it for a while and i'm back to square one again. I found the E6B app from Pooleys that runs on most phones and tablets, i compared the accuracy of both while doing my nav log and they were always within 1 to 2 degs of each other. The error could be due to accuracy of my use of the E6B, yes i could spend more time getting to gips with it. But to be honest, when flying using the app version it is far easier and requires less brain power than the mandrolic one. I felt this left me more spare capacity to actually fly the plane, rather than head down squinting at the dial. My personal preference is the electronic E6B.

Charts - Yes agreed, being able to read a chart is a very important skill (I use maps almost daily and am accomplished at micro navigation, my personal accuracy is measured by meters), how ever, it took me a few flights to get 'my eye' in using charts, and should be used during training to become proficient. How ever i do believe that introducing GPS etc into training as an aid to navigation is a bonus; as the saying goes 'a GPS is an aid to navigation, but not a navigational aid'. If it's there why not teach them to use it, and also use the chart at the same time? Recently an examiner was astonished that i had the audacity to use a GPS on a X country navigation flight. My view is why not, it was there so i used it; Just like i use VOR's etc when i can. Having seen the benefits of skydemon etc, i think there are more positives then negatives to using these aids. Even if they're only used in the planning stages, and the trainee pilot then puts pen to chart and flys with his PLOG and chart, he's started to introduce technology into his flying.

Unfortunately or fortunately, technology is here to stay. I think we should get on and use it, rather than shy away from including it. A measured approach should still be used, a fine line between 'old school and new school' allowing the best possible spring board for new pilots.

6th Jun 2018, 16:05
You will probably never use a real E6B after you get your license. However, in the US, the FAA doesn't allow phones and tablets in the test environment, and purchase of a dedicated electronic E6B is silly because of all the phone and tablet apps. A paper E6B (for the test) is $15.

Yo will certainly be asked to use a map and some amound of dead reckoning on he check ride.

6th Jun 2018, 17:02
I felt this left me more spare capacity to actually fly the plane, rather than head down squinting at the dial. You should not be using it in the aeroplane!!! This is where you use the one between your ears!