Uniforms

[SPIT]

Does anybody know as to why the Duke of Westminster (William) very rarely wears RAF UNIFORM on State Occasions. He dir serve in the RAF for some years but he nearly always wears a uniform in a Regiment he has NEVER served in like today ???.

[ZH875]

Maybe because he is not the Duke of Westminster
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Grosvenor,_7th_Duke_of_Westminster

[MPN11]

A simple case of “Which one shall I wear today”, alongside not wishing to overshadow Prince Harry I auggest. He blended tastefully into the background on Harry’s special day.

[Danny42C]

I think the idea behind it is that the Powers That Be don't regard RAF Officers as "proper Gentlemen"; when we had a Full Dress Uniform (as worn by Flt Lt the Duke of York at his marriage in the early '20s), it wasn't too bad.

[MPN11]

Sadly, Danny42C, you are right. ‘We’ have probably the dullest uniform going (with apologies to the RAC). Despite comments about the pre-WW2 dress uniforms, at least back then there was something a bit ‘special’. Now there’s nothing to brighten it up ... not even ‘colonels’ collar tabs in light blue, or the Field rank gold stripe on the Mess Dress trouserings (double for Air rank, IIRC)!

[Wensleydale]

Sorry Spit, but Prince William served in the Blues and Royals before joining the RAF.....he was commissioned from Sandhurst in 2006 and went to the Blues and Royals as a Lt, but like Harry initially, was not allowed anywhere near combat areas. He therefore decided to become a Helicopter Pilot where it was unlikely that he would be in active service. He went to Cranwell in 2008. Having served along side his brother in the cavalry, then it is perhaps appropriate that he chose the same uniform today.

[MPN11]

Ah, I had forgotten that. Both H Cav!!

HRH Harry has more medals, though :)

Shame the H Cav couldn’t muster more than half a troop for the Procession, though. And the Houshold outrider was having a mare [giggle] of his horse with those very adjacent howling crowds.

[Dan Gerous]

Was there not a comment in the recent past on Pprune, that they wore the uniform of whichever branch of the services they held the highest rank in?

[cokecan]

why would anyone get married in an RAF uniform - you can get something that looks less like a Tesco Security Guards uniform for £50 in Topman...

nice to see the informal tradition of both of them going one up for a wedding - both retired as Captains/Captain equivilant but turned up as Majors.

[scarecrow450]

The Queen promoted them to Major's, wonder if she'd promote me to Cpl 21 years after I left ?

[Melchett01]

Sadly, Danny42C, you are right. ‘We’ have probably the dullest uniform going (with apologies to the RAC). Despite comments about the pre-WW2 dress uniforms, at least back then there was something a bit ‘special’. Now there’s nothing to brighten it up ... not even ‘colonels’ collar tabs in light blue, or the Field rank gold stripe on the Mess Dress trouserings (double for Air rank, IIRC)!


As much as it pains me, you’re right. There’s very little dash or verve about RAF uniform when compared to the others.

[Union Jack]

As much as it pains me, you’re right. There’s very little dash or verve about RAF uniform when compared to the others.


But at least William appears to take great pride in sporting his Royal Air Force wings whenever he wears Army uniform. Conversely, I have never seen him wearing any wings when, very rarely, he wears Royal Navy uniform, despite being *fully* qualified to do so through his Sea King service, unlike Prince Michael who only completed abbreviated flying training but wears the wings of all three Services.


Ah, I had forgotten that. Both H Cav!!

HRH Harry has more medals, though :)



In a very borderline pedantic sense, really only one more at present, namely for his service in Afghanistan, since he wears the ribbon for his KCVO whilst the ribbon for the KG William has is no longer worn.

Jack

[Basil]

‘We’ have probably the dullest uniform going
May I suggest that, the reputation of the Royal Air Force does not require bells and whistles to provide glitter. The achievements of our predecessors speak for themselves.
Even we, of the Cold War when, IMHO, EVERYONE was in the 'front line', achieved the aim of the task.

[Tankertrashnav]

I had to admit that partisan though I am, being an ex Rock, the RAF contingent on the route lining today, which included blokes from QCS, looked pretty dull alongside the other services represented. I don't suppose we will ever get a full dress uniform now, much as I'd like to see one.

In answer to the OP, Prince William does at least wear RAF uniform at the Cenotaph, and as everybody is in greatcoats there at least he isn't outshone by the pongoes.

[Pontius Navigator]

After the Jolly suggestion he would wear RM uniform as Capt General! What rank badges does a Capt Gen wear - swords and 3pips?

[Old-Duffer]

As TTN knows well, at Kai Tak we were able to wear a No: 6 - this is a KD No: 1 but with shoulder boards (now just floppy straps) and it is similar to the summer uniform worn in some quarters by the Army.

Although not full ceremonial like the 6A in white (which the RAF insists is worn with black shoes), a No: 6 is actually very appealing and has the added 'advantage' of making the General Service Medal ribbon stand out from the uniform background of a No: 1!!!!!!

Old Duffer

[The Oberon]

After the Jolly suggestion he would wear RM uniform as Capt General! What rank badges does a Capt Gen wear - swords and 3pips?

P.N. Similar to Field Marshal, crown, laurel wreath with crossed batons.

Dan Gerous. Prince William is also a Colonel of the Irish Guards, so that is his senior uniform.

I think that they both wore the same uniforms just for uniformity.

It wasn't so much the uniforms that annoyed me but the marching, during the march off, the RAF combined with the AAC and at least 40% of the RAF contingent were out of step, even the RN managed better.

[FantomZorbin]

Cokecan
I got married in RAF uniform complete with sword plus white gloves ... and I was damned proud of it!

Not only that, it was cheaper than hiring a whistle & flute from Moss Bros:)

[MPN11]

Cokecan
I got married in RAF uniform complete with sword plus white gloves ... and I was damned proud of it!

Not only that, it was cheaper than hiring a whistle & flute from Moss Bros:)Likewise, FZ. However, I was unable to persuade my bride to wear hers, so she went and spent money on a wedding dress instead. Oh, the waste ... she never wore it again!!

[Saintsman]

It wasn't so much the uniforms that annoyed me but the marching, during the march off, the RAF combined with the AAC and at least 40% of the RAF contingent were out of step, even the RN managed better.

The trouble with mixing up the services is that they do not always march the same way and there are also different commands. When I was attached to a RN unit, we RAF were always put at the back when marching, otherwise we would leave them behind.

[Wander00]

MPN 11-shame on you. And if the groom were the meet the "highest rank" criterion, Harr could have worn RM uniform or Air Commodore as Hon Air Commodore of RAF Honington

[Lima Juliet]

nice to see the informal tradition of both of them going one up for a wedding - both retired as Captains/Captain equivilant but turned up as Majors.

If I recall correctly, Wills was promoted to Sqn Ldr back in 2012/13 whilst he still served?

[Pontius Navigator]

I see the Torygraph chief reporter, Robert Mendick, managed to ace it:


The Duke of Sussex saluted . . . his white gloved hand touching his forage cap

FORAGE cap! Report to the Tower tomorrow.

[serf]

I see the Torygraph chief reporter, Robert Mendick, managed to ace it:


The Duke of Sussex saluted . . . his white gloved hand touching his forage cap

FORAGE cap! Report to the Tower tomorrow.

Thats what he was wearing....

[Pontius Navigator]

Thats what he was wearing....
I stand corrected.

[k3k3]

I thought a forage cap was a kind of chip bag hat.

[Fareastdriver]

From Wikipedia

The coloured peaked cap worn by the modern British Army (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army) for parade and other dress occasions is known as a forage cap.

[k3k3]

Looks like we are both right:

The Royal Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force) field service cap is often called a forage cap (also known as the chip bag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips) or Thunderbird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbirds_(TV_series)) hat) has no peak and because of its longitudinal cut is called a "fore-and-after". Its two ornamental buttons at the front can be unfastened in order to let down earflaps for harsh weather

[Pontius Navigator]

Looks like we are both right:

The Royal Air Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force) field service cap is often called a forage cap (also known as the chip bag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips) or Thunderbird (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbirds_(TV_series)) hat) has no peak and because of its longitudinal cut is called a "fore-and-after". Its two ornamental buttons at the front can be unfastened in order to let down earflaps for harsh weather
k3, actually it does have a peak. In its present form I don't think either ear flaps or peak work.

[k3k3]

I know if you tried to fold the ear flaps down they bulged in such a way as to act as wind collectors rather than ear protectors.

[Basil]

Complicated, innit?

[Danny42C]

It has another name familiar to most of our readers, but I cannot print it here.

[Whenurhappy]

As TTN knows well, at Kai Tak we were able to wear a No: 6 - this is a KD No: 1 but with shoulder boards (now just floppy straps) and it is similar to the summer uniform worn in some quarters by the Army.

Although not full ceremonial like the 6A in white (which the RAF insists is worn with black shoes), a No: 6 is actually very appealing and has the added 'advantage' of making the General Service Medal ribbon stand out from the uniform background of a No: 1!!!!!!

Old Duffer

In my last tour (not many years ago) I was 'digital' ie the only RAF chap there so I had new rank boards made for my No 6 (KD) Tropical Service Dress, to replace the dull old straps. I also wore white shoes with No 6A and had it modified with cuff buttons. I also replaced all the buttons with the rather nicer Mess Kit buttons (having found a box of them in my office when I took over in Post).

But my favorite tropical uniform remains the Bush Jacket (early Roger Moore look). Cool as F**k especially when worn with black RAF buttons, shorts and 'stockings' (knee-length socks). And worn with brevet and ribbons on a broach - something 'District Commissioner' about it. Although It's been obsolete for years, I continued to wear it until I left Post.

[Pontius Navigator]

Agree about the bush jacket. By 1970 i think it was worn with trousers :(

Its big advantage, unlike a shirt, was it not tucked in shorts.

[Dougie M]

In the mid 60s at Khormaksar the bush jacket was worn with shorts when on duty as O.O. or Junior Officer of the Guard but en route to civilian airfield we had to change from the Australian lightweight flying suit in to Bush jacket and long trousers all made from Dacron which didn't show the sweat as it trickled down your legs into your socks. Happy days

[Danny42C]

Bush Jackets for ever !

Cellular type, of course, worn over shorts or slacks according to time of day, khaki woolen long socks, no underclothes, sambhur-skin desert boots with thick crepe rubber soles ("brothel creepers") - and an Aussie Bush Hat (forward areas only).

That was what the well-dressed Sahib wore in India/Burma in the days of the Raj.

[Rheinstorff]

I think the idea behind it is that the Powers That Be don't regard RAF Officers as "proper Gentlemen"; when we had a Full Dress Uniform (as worn by Flt Lt the Duke of York at his marriage in the early '20s), it wasn't too bad.

Not sure these three kings (one incumbent, the other two later) would agree...
https://goo.gl/images/1sYaoc

[teeteringhead]

Doesn't William usually wear his RAF uniform on Remembrance Sunday? Certainly has for the last coupla years IIRC.

http://photos.laineygossip.com/articles/prince-harry-william-kate-14nov16-01.jpg

[Rheinstorff]

The Prince of Wales wore RAF uniform at the 2017 Remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph too.

[teeteringhead]

Yes he did!https://c7.alamy.com/comp/KH2HJA/the-cenotaph-london-uk-london-uk-12-nov-2017-prince-charles-hrh-the-KH2HJA.jpg

[chopper2004]

why would anyone get married in an RAF uniform - you can get something that looks less like a Tesco Security Guards uniform for £50 in Topman...

nice to see the informal tradition of both of them going one up for a wedding - both retired as Captains/Captain equivilant but turned up as Majors.

Lol, did not someone on here say the same thing several years back when William got hitched re looking like a Securicor gathering,

cheers

[Danny42C]

I was proud to await my bride in the uniform and in the rank in which I was serving.

So should William have been.

[Dougie M]

Hear, hear Danny. I was a Flying Officer with my South Arabia GSM dangling on my chest at my nuptials and my bride was beautiful. All was well until my brother arrived in his 11th Hussars full ceremonial dress and outshone us both. He later resigned his commission when the regiment amalgamated with the 10th Hussars who bagged all the good jobs, being the senior regiment. Was I sad, not a lot.