Victoria Police Air Wing Tender [Archive]

bgdfly

17th May 2018, 09:09

Not wanting to 'thread creep', but on the topic of Australian Tenders, it all seems very quiet with regard to the NAFC Fire contracts. Aren't these supposed to be up for renewal in a matter of months? And I believe StarFlight were a very talked-about bidder with a bid-fleet of Blackhawks. Surely there must be some word on who is getting what by now?

Kulwin Park

17th May 2018, 13:17

chopper2004

17th May 2018, 22:31

Whoever gets the contract, they should keep using the Dauphins until the new Airbus H160's are acquired. Don't go down the path of operating 139's like every other operator, and realize they are too big a machine for the role it plays.

I was not aware of any Airbus H160 on order in Oz? They are expensive a/c for sure thus unless you are a big operator....

Babcock MCS have ordered some, but not sure if that would be for their Australian operation lest bid for any police work

rrekn

17th May 2018, 23:29

Word is that it that they will be AW139s... like everyone else.

H160s won't be certified in time.

Ascend Charlie

18th May 2018, 01:08

A 139 for police work??

There won't be any quiet surveillance going on, then. The B206 was a good little workhorse for many years in NSW, and the BK was a x2.5 scale up, making it even better. Now they have B412, another x2.5 upscale, and the 139 is even bigger.

The Vics have always had Daphne screeching around the suburbs, but the 139 is still a quantum leap from that one. Do they really need that much space for a police machine, or will it be rescue configured as well?

John Eacott

18th May 2018, 01:20

Word is that it that they will be AW139s... like everyone else.

H160s won't be certified in time.

Everyone else? Which Australian PAW has 139s, I thought that the largest is NSW PAW with Bell 412s.

Heliringer

18th May 2018, 02:20

Lets be honest, you could do 98% of police work with a B407/AS350 etc but the Empires are being built and the Police force with the biggest toys wins!

KiwiNedNZ

18th May 2018, 02:34

Dubai Police getting them, Abu Dhabi police got them, think the Dutch have some, Japan have some. Maryland State Police have a LOT.

SAR driver

18th May 2018, 05:34

The tender for the VicPol AirWing states, among many other things, that a capability needs to exist for 8 SOG guys to be in the rear along with the FLIR console and it's operator; it'd be a squeeze for the 139 and it would most likely make it too heavy for CAT A helipad ops (not sure if that would matter much to the cops). They were looking at the 189 there for a while, including taking the demonstrator for a spin, but many think that would be overkill considering that 90% of the work is getting the FLIR ball on target

Ascend Charlie

18th May 2018, 07:21

John Eacott

18th May 2018, 08:13

I guess the days are gone where a night patrol involved a high hover at the western suburbs drive-in when Fatal Attraction was showing? Only the observer with the gyro-stabilised binos got a really good look, but it was still fun to be doing for real what the Blue Thunder boys did in the movie.

We (Vic PAW) had a pre release showing of Blue Thunder, so when patrolling (ASTRO) over the suburbs and seeing Blue Thunder on the Coburg drive in, it was a given that we’d disappear then pop up over the screen and put the nitesun onto the patrons. Night approval was (cough) 400’, easily done :cool: :p

gulliBell

18th May 2018, 11:00

Dubai Police getting them..etc etc.

China Police also has them.

Ascend Charlie

18th May 2018, 23:38

John, how many JAFO caps did your guys have made?

Tibbsy

19th May 2018, 06:47

Lets be honest, you could do 98% of police work with a B407/AS350 etc but the Empires are being built and the Police force with the biggest toys wins!

This :ok:

Or maybe even an EC135.:hmm:

Kiwiconehead

19th May 2018, 11:55

Or maybe even an EC135.:hmm:

Isn't there an EC135 in the VicPol fleet already?

cattletruck

19th May 2018, 12:18

Isn't there an EC135 in the VicPol fleet already?

Yes, and I'm told it's only good for driving the dog around. They really do like their Dauphines and I don't blame them.

Tibbsy

19th May 2018, 12:33

Yes, and I'm told it's only good for driving the dog around. They really do like their Dauphines and I don't blame them.

Who told you that? Not the same people who say they need a few 139s is it?:}

cattletruck

19th May 2018, 12:42

Who told you that?

It came straight from the horses mouth before the 139 was even put on the table.

Tibbsy

19th May 2018, 12:48

Well. Must be accurate then. No empire building to see here.

Twist & Shout

20th May 2018, 05:19

One of the ex pilots told me the Dauphins were lacking a little (weight/performance) capacity for what they were doing with them.

The normal thing is to upgrade the machines, then load them up with more gear/toys, till they are near the limit again.

also

What once was “normal” and quite acceptable. (Riding your pushbike at maximum speed bare headed/ flying SE over the city) is now considered out of the question.

gulliBell

20th May 2018, 12:57

What's the wait on a new AW139? If you ordered one today you'd probably have to wait 2 years to get it.

rivnut

20th May 2018, 22:52

What's the wait on a new AW139? If you ordered one today you'd probably have to wait 2 years to get it.
slot jumping / buying is not unusual......you can get a passenger configured 139 in about a year these days.
the issue is role equipment fitout......that’s a mind field area and can take another year including shakeout.
the other issue that will probably be an additional delay factor is training to operational status. VPAW has 14 pilots and some 30 aircrew.......this is a considerable number to train up.......and will take about a year at least. Of course some of this can be done concurrently, never the less, I reckon about 2 years from contract signing.
VPAW has grown big over the years, it is a 24 / 7 operation and I’m told that it’s primary machine does a 100hrly every week and a half.......!!

gulliBell

20th May 2018, 23:19

A mate of mine bought a new AW139 and it took 2 years to deliver from time of order....I think it was optioned out to about $20m USD. An optioned Police version would probably be north of that. AW139 initial is 2 weeks ground school + a month in the sim, but you do get two initial courses at Leonardo included with each new aircraft purchased. The others have to buy an initial course at $57K AUD each.

rivnut

21st May 2018, 02:31

Depends on the clout the successful contractor has with the helo manufacturer as to how quick they can fast track the acquisition.......watch this space once the contract is announced.
As to training and level D sim for the 139 (if that’s the aircraft .... nothing confirmed yet)......in this region you have, Toll at Bankstown, Lifeflight in Brissy and Leonardo in KL.
if it is the 139 then it’s a 4 week course to get the rating and another 2 weeks for an instructor type endorsement.

rrekn

27th Jun 2018, 12:58

Looks like something is coming... something 'like a 139'.

https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne/status/1011165946726109184
https://not-twitter.com/
7NewsMelbourne/status/1011165946726109184 (https://7NewsMelbourne/status/1011165946726109184)

gulliBell

27th Jun 2018, 13:17

$50M doesn't buy a fleet of 139. It buys 2, plus some spares.

The Ozzie BOY

27th Jun 2018, 23:05

$50M doesn't buy a fleet of 139. It buys 2, plus some spares.

Used Blackhawks that Sikorsky have are cheap and will fit the bill and can be ready to go quite fast .

Ascend Charlie

28th Jun 2018, 00:39

Don't need a Blackhawk for police work. Even an A139 is pushing it - the Dauphin was a good size, the BK117 is also good.

gulliBell

28th Jun 2018, 00:40

I'm sure the residents of Melbourne would be happy with noisy Blackhawks stooging around the suburbs at night low level, not! The Army Blackhawks were in Perth 2 weeks ago doing just that, I guess having a last hurrah out of Swanbourne with the boys in black.

minigundiplomat

28th Jun 2018, 01:09

If I recall correctly, the civilian version of the Blackhawk (S70i) is certified for fire fighting and currently doesn't have certification to operate over urban/built up areas - which would probably make for a crime spree in Melbourne and increase in convictions in Bendigo......

casper64

28th Jun 2018, 18:06

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmforum.com-vbulletin/700x360/csm_20161213_hubschrauber_700x360_0f7ece44ac_38a19bbe84dcbbe a37f0f03a063b8af96d2d09f9.jpg

Or something like this? Most modern police helicopter availalbe according various German and American police forces....

RVDT

29th Jun 2018, 05:00

Plus they wouldn't even know you were there half the time - especially at night.

megle2

29th Jun 2018, 07:34

King Air 350 rumoured to be one favourite for fixed wing but other rumour is it’s a big Otter

gulliBell

29th Jun 2018, 07:50

PC-12 not suitable for Victoria Police? You could buy 4 of those for the price of an AW139. And probably cheaper to operate all 4 PC-12 than an AW139.

Ascend Charlie

29th Jun 2018, 19:00

PC-12 hover performance is not that flash...

SAR driver

30th Jun 2018, 01:31

The tender states that all FW and RW aircraft need to be ME. My money is on the King Air as well

gulliBell

30th Jun 2018, 01:46

The tender states that all FW and RW aircraft need to be ME. My money is on the King Air as well

Oh right, so I guess the WA coppers will now have to follow that lead and sell their PC-12 for something else with more than 1 burner. And as for the whole single engine thing, the RAAF has opted for a single-engine 5th gen fast jet fighter, perhaps they'd better follow the Victoria Police lead as well and toss that idea for a twin. You know, like what they've been doing for past 30 years. But that's a whole different discussion.

John Eacott

30th Jun 2018, 02:36

Oh right, so I guess the WA coppers will now have to follow that lead and sell their PC-12 for something else with more than 1 burner. And as for the whole single engine thing, the RAAF has opted for a single-engine 5th gen fast jet fighter, perhaps they'd better follow the Victoria Police lead as well and toss that idea for a twin. You know, like what they've been doing for past 30 years. But that's a whole different discussion.

I would suggest that there is quite a difference in the military tasking of their PC12s and fast jets to that of VicPol and their police support and State SAR taskings :8

gulliBell

30th Jun 2018, 03:06

And I would suggest the WA coppers PC-12 is not a military operation. I'm only guessing their operational requirements are similar to Victoria Police (except they need to cover much more ground). So my suggestion is, if the Vics want twin FW, the WA coppers might do the same. The empire always looking for going one bigger and better, right? Now if WA got the same split of GST revenue as the Vics they could probably buy 20 AW139 and have plenty of change left over to pay their drivers $180k per year. That's what AW139 guys are getting now.

John Eacott

30th Jun 2018, 05:58

The last time that VicPAW had a fixed wing element they had two twins, and were a very cost effective means of transporting coppers around the state for court appearances, prisoner transfers, relocation requirements, etc. Jump into the 21st Century with added requirements for surveillance, SOG positioning with equipment and other jobs a larger more capable aircraft could be needed.

What’s the issue with them looking at all types as per tender requirements; this is only a rumour site and you seem to be climbing up the fishing line and down the rod without any hook in the water!

industry insider

30th Jun 2018, 10:27

and have plenty of change left over to pay their drivers $180k per year. That's what AW139 guys are getting now.

Where's that pay grade then gulliBell?

gulliBell

30th Jun 2018, 10:57

Where's that pay grade then gulliBell?

That's what HNZ paying their offshore AW139 line driver. + super. + car.

Jeffory

30th Jun 2018, 13:08

I believe WAPOL has an Airvan decked out for surveillance over the metro area (maybe just a trial for now). Flies in circles just as well as the BK or Dauphin but makes less noise and costs a dickload less to operate. Don't know why any police department would need a 139 with the SAR/EMS capabilities from the likes of Toll, Babcock, CHC or Careflight on hand. Seems like a waste of money IMO.

gulliBell

30th Jun 2018, 15:39

gulliBell

1st Jul 2018, 01:22

What’s the issue with them looking at all types as per tender requirements..

I don't care what they do, what aircraft they buy, or who they get to fly them. I only know one guy who works for them, and he's been there a while. I have no insight in anything they have done, do, or might do. It's always nice to get nice new toys to play with, and whatever toy shop they land in I'm sure will be perfect for their needs.

Mark Six

1st Jul 2018, 07:03

Speaking of Toll & CHC. I heard a rumor CHC are making 20 AW139 drivers redundant. Toll picked up a contract CHC was bidding on. Just a rumor, but it didn't come from the Essendon refueller so probably not quite true.
You're right, it's "not quite true". There will be some voluntary redundancies, and a few of those will no doubt be 139 pilots - no more than 5 or 6 at a guess - maybe less. No forced redundancies at this stage. Toll has not won any contracts that CHC has bid on apart from the NSW EMS contract nearly 2 years ago, or if they have it is not public knowledge and does not impact on the current redundancies.

rrekn

3rd Aug 2018, 09:59

Very quiet on this one... anyone heard anything?

onehitwonder

15th Aug 2018, 03:04

I hear through the great powers of be, StarFlight has won VICPOL Airwing with AW139 and B200....

d_concord

25th Aug 2018, 23:53

I hear through the great powers of be, StarFlight has won VICPOL Airwing with AW139 and B200....
Wrong... They won the Heli component. Skytraders won the fixed wing.

A30_737_AEWC

23rd Oct 2018, 01:26

mickjoebill

23rd Oct 2018, 10:19

An announcement today on the future configuration of the Victoria Police Air Wing fleet:

three Leonardo AW139 helicopters
one Beechcraft Super King Air 350ER
www.vicpolicenews.com.au/news/new-aircraft-to-enhance-police-eyes-in-the-sky (https://www.pprune.org/www.vicpolicenews.com.au/news/new-aircraft-to-enhance-police-eyes-in-the-sky)

No AS 3XX to potter around the sticks?

Does one assume 3x medium would tend toward the future being a centralised unit?

I’m genuinely impressed/relieved that the regions have little need for rapid aerial response. Long may it continue.

But not at all keen on all the eggs in one basket.

I guess we just just need to cram a few more million people into the state:) to get the numbers up

mjb

Tickle

24th Oct 2018, 01:46

Wow, the era of those pretty Dauphins at Essendon is over from 2020.

Nescafe

24th Oct 2018, 04:58

Arguably the Dauphin’s era ended sometime ago!

industry insider

24th Oct 2018, 07:10

I doubt that VPAW will get quite the same reliability out of the 139 as they have had with the N3s.

rrekn

24th Oct 2018, 12:36

Spot on Industry, especially with an operator who doesn't have an operation.

Squawk7700

25th Oct 2018, 00:59

Complete overkill. 90% of the worlds Police forces use smaller and more agile models. Ridiculous waste of money. You could run a few MD500 / Notar equivalents to carry as many guys for a fraction of the cost. Much of their work is camera work and guiding ground forces.. do you really need a 139 for that? They are too big to land in many of the locations they need to and as noted above, they will load them up to the roof with crap and dramatically reduce the payload. Yes they do winch missions, but do they need 3 units to support this capability?

The EC135 suffered that fate early on and with so much crap on board, it has about a 1.5 hour total mission range. A $6m waste of tax payers money.

As for the KingAir. They used to run Aerostars years ago but got rid of them in favour of helicopters. They used to use them for interstate trips to transport prisoners also. History repeating itself? It will be used for training apparently amongst other things like searches... presumably training the camera operators etc, do you really need a 350 for that? Probably not. A Vulcanair might have been an economical option instead.

How about spending some of this cash on programs to assist Police with further training for dealing with mental health cases for example? If they put more effort in here, they wouldn’t need to cram 8 SOG officers with sub-machine guns into a 139 to head to the next siege and then do nothing when they arrive.

mickjoebill

28th Oct 2018, 03:16

How about spending some of this cash on programs to assist Police with further training for dealing with mental health cases for example? If they put more effort in here, they wouldn’t need to cram 8 SOG officers with sub-machine guns into a 139 to head to the next siege and then do nothing when they arrive.

Just a few days ago such an incident occurred locally when an unfortunate lad, not old enough to drive, barricaded himself in his room in a rural town.
The incident was resolved without arrest or harm. The initial SOG response has had locals reeling.
The boys in black appeared to arrive by road.
Good to see the Victorian Police commissioner appear to make inroads this week to improve mental health care for first responders, that should extend to civvy pilots working in govt role, including aerial fire fighting IMHO.

Mjb

rrekn

3rd Oct 2019, 07:20

Photos have emerged of the first 2 machines.

SN 31878 - General Duties in Blue/White Livery
SN 31885 - Special Operations in Grey Livery

Photo credit as marked.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/795x597/1_c61ff5ff3209898fa54597f813010edbbf1fb15e.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/795x597/2_dbc6da219d59e1a6291757ed5f364f0c6ce5d204.jpg

noooby

3rd Oct 2019, 17:04

Really? I wouldn't be so sure. Fenestron on the N3 needs more maintenance than it should, courtesy of issues that the 155 had. And then there is the god awful autopilot. That thing is horrible to fix when it breaks.
The 139 gets good dispatch reliability from people who know how to maintain it.
It is still one of the most simple machines I've ever worked on mechanically. It's just that it's bigger. And once you get used to the fact that the whole electrical system is DC, avionics issues are much easier to sort out. People are scared of it because they think it is hard to maintain. It isn't.
I hope they've checked that the helipads they use are rated for it. They wouldn't be the first operator to buy the 139 and then have to land next to the helipad. LOL.

cattletruck

4th Oct 2019, 11:48

Why the separate colour schemes? Aren't they going to be using the same drivers for both? Does this mean that if the mission parameters change they need to go back to base to fetch the other machine.

Still am a big fan of the Dauphine and remain mesmerised with how Polair can fly it around so quietly at night, but I guess it's time for a new era. Just hope the new one is just as quiet.

Ascend Charlie

4th Oct 2019, 20:18

mesmerised with how Polair can fly it around so quietly at night

You couldn't say that about their original Dauphins, their fenestron scream announced their arrival before the flight plan went in.

Tickle

21st Nov 2019, 00:23

For those like me who miss the C series shriek at 3 am over Melbourne:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5cLwBoijzM

Squawk7700

31st Jan 2020, 09:01

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.dcwc.com.au/project/311-spencer-street-victoria-police-centre%3fhs_amp=true

Noticed the new cop shop has a landing pad for the 139 presumably to load it up with the SOG’s. Any complexities landing a 139 on the 40th floor roof? Do many helis land on buildings that high?

chopper2004

25th Apr 2020, 15:59

In honour of Anzac Day, figured I post these :) I attended the 1000th AW139 event at Leonardo facility in Verigiate last September. Anyhow my photos of two of the Air Wing new 139. One in full colours and doing flight tests, that week and the other was parked up in the dozen AW139 line up for the event.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x720/40841225_83d9_4e4f_bde8_488e6a4a43a9_75e50e99e7f5ef8bdfc6429 7f61c0633c0245b81.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x960/0474128a_b05f_4ca4_875a_d8ded2cb6bc5_456ba0ab82d2a2d880dab94 d51e3cf4df647046a.jpeg

I gather the airframe RAIV color is that and not going to be the blue / white like the other two a/c?? So it be used for tactical - SWAT / CT ops??

Has their new King Air been assembled / delivered?

cheers

Kulwin Park

26th Apr 2020, 10:30

All the new Pol-Air 139s at Caloundra getting fitted out by Heli Mods

John Eacott

24th May 2020, 04:58

All the new Pol-Air 139s at Caloundra getting fitted out by Heli Mods

Some recent photos from Caloundra, courtesy of Sunshine Coast Plane Spotting Facebook page. Delivery to Victoria is scheduled for July :ok:

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/978x732/64664dd6_1c42_4e5d_903e_82239433f9ac_55f5daa128469268a4b2e30 a4d80cf5f98022959.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x724/1c9e3a7c_145e_493c_b2e6_5f585efd3662_af8897da65031c527d5dee1 3147519e5a94f1ea5.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/7c3acddb_8f0e_41dd_9984_72863acf05b1_a0fb3029fd386f9d7772116 31f32372426805c09.jpeg