View Full Version : Renewing a CPL(A)

14th May 2018, 18:45

I would be grateful for a bit of advice on how to get out of a conundrum, which even the FCL people seem confused by:

I hold a current ATPL(H), initially issued by the CAA, but transferred many years ago to the IAA in Ireland, which I use in my 'day' job. It comes with a current Class 1 medical, issued in Ireland against my IAA Certificate / Reference Number.

I also held a CPL(A), which was also issued by the CAA in October 2006 (National Licence). The licence was to be re-issued no later than October 2011 (which I failed to do, as I was busy with my day job). My last fixed wing checks were Nov 2004 (IR-SPA-ME) and Dec 2004 (SE Piston Land).

I am trying to look at a CPL renewal in Northern Ireland (closest geographically to where I live) (probably on SE Piston due cost), but have hit a bit of a quandry.
The CAA FCL dept says that to renew my CPL I need a UK issued Medical Cert, however the UK AME states he cannot do this as its been >5 yrs since my last UK medical expiry (my EASA Form 147 class 1 medical has been current throughout). Therefore I would have to get an initial done at an aeronautical centre in the mainland UK (seems a bit extreme, and expensive). The CAA Aeromedical centre said they cannot see the difference, however I do not want to run the risk of doing the flying in the UK (N.I.), only to have the application rejected. (My other concern is that my IAA medical will have my Irish licence number and not my CAA reference no.)

Any feedback on the following would be gratefully received:
1) Any experience / suggestions on the medical certificate issue.
2) Confirmation on the validity of my plan (Training to the satisfaction of an ATO, followed by an LPC Renewal for CPL issue), with any minimum hours required.

Many Thanks

14th May 2018, 22:03
See Part FCL 015(d).
conversion requirements are correct, and the UK are legally and duty bound under the Aircrew Reg 1178/2011 to re- issue the CPL(A) as a Part FCL licence. It can be transferred to IAA thereafter. The medical should be accepted by CAA, but do ask them to explain their reasons if they decide not to. The usual maze of nonsense that so defines CAA and EASA!

15th May 2018, 11:25
A point of interest is that you can only hold one EASA medical certificate. As your State of Licence Issue is Ireland, would it not be easier to just renew your SEP rating and then convert your UK CPL to an EASA CPL issued by your curent State of Issue. You could then go back to the CAA and get your old UK CPL reissied as a lifetime licence as well if you want it. Give Simon White a call at the IAA.

20th May 2018, 11:21
Thank you for the replies (and apologies for the delay in responding, as I was out of the country for a time).

I intend to apply, following a period of training and test, via the UK, using Form SRG 1104. Once the licence is issued I will transfer to the IAA to hold everything under one authority. Hopefully they will accept my EASA Medical, although I am still concerned about that as in the 1104 para 3 it states:

A licence will not be issued to any person unless their medical records supporting their Part-MED medical certificate are held by an Aeromedical Centre located in the United Kingdom. European Commission Regulation (EU) No. 1178/2011 as amended, requires that an individual has all of their licences administered by the National Aviation Authority that holds their medical records (Part-MED.A.030 and Part-FCL.015).

This was the initial quandry as I cannot apply for a renewal in Ireland, for a licence issued in the UK, and getting a medical in the UK is a bit of a pain, as I've been told that as my last UK medical was >5 yrs O.O.D. (although I have held a valid class 1 in Ireland for the last 13 yrs) I would have to get a full initial Class 1 at a UK aeromedical centre. So I have my fingers crossed, especially as my only intention once the licence is issued is to transfer it immediately to the IAA.

I'll let you know if it works :}

20th May 2018, 12:00
I see no difference between MED(H) and MED(A)...is there one? A class 1 is a class 1 and as Whopity says the you can only hold 1 EASA medical and it is that state that administers your licence. Based on the fact that you have held in the past a CPL(A) (with bells and whistles) it should not be too onerous to complete the training for the renewal of your SEP Rating (with whichever training provider you choose- it does not have to be a UK ATO) and then elect for LPC with an examiner administered through the IAA - applying for a EASA CPL through the IAA. There are several ATOs in the North and Republic who could do this for you but should you wish to renew your ME/IR bits then you'd need to head south to Dublin or Cork to do this. When everything is in place you can SOLI to wherever you want, but again I suspect that would require both (A) and (H) bits to go together.

As has been suggested, give Simon a ring at the IAA - helpful and knowledgeable chap.

20th May 2018, 12:48

it should not be too onerous to complete the training for the renewal of your SEP Rating (with whichever training provider you choose- it does not have to be a UK ATO) and then elect for LPC with an examiner administered through the IAA - applying for a EASA CPL through the IAA.

Unfortunately after contacting the IAA FCL dept, I have been told they cannot re-issue a Part-FCL CPL based upon a JAR CPL issued by the UK which has lapsed, therefore I have to conduct the training and test, and subsequently apply for the Part-FCL licence, in the UK. And round and round I go.

20th May 2018, 20:53
Catch 22. Check your PMs