Is EK worth it? [Archive]

choi3ed

10th May 2018, 09:37

Hello guys.
I am sorta new to PPRuNe. Just wanted to ask for your pilot opinions about EK.
I am on the B777 currently but captain upgrades are at best 12 yrs to narrow body (B777 FO to Narrow body Captain) and 14~15 yrs to wide body.
Does anyone know EK's realistic upgrade times from "congratulations your hired FO" to "congratulations captain"?
Thank you for reading.

Desert snake

10th May 2018, 09:40

You picked the wrong day to ask. But good news if you’re under 30

Arcla

10th May 2018, 10:02

After today’s slap in the face. You will be upgrading far quicker than you could ever hope with the increase in resignations.

Airbuspilot72

10th May 2018, 10:16

After today’s slap in the face. You will be upgrading far quicker than you could ever hope with the increase in resignations.
I absolutely agree

desert witch

10th May 2018, 10:49

Does anyone know EK's realistic upgrade times from "congratulations your hired FO" to "congratulations captain"?.

Last FO I talked to that upgraded said failure rate at about 30%. And that's the guys that gain access to the course. So maybe never "congratulations captain". He said he survived one sim failure, and the stress that comes with it.

Read the 'don't come to EK' threads, and the 'this is wonderful threads'... oh wait, there is none of those.

I am not unhappy here. But seeing what has happened in the last decade, and the marked trend, I have recommended anyone who asked to stay away. I would not have moved myself.

Cheers. To 3%.

pilotguy1222

10th May 2018, 10:53

Currently between 3-4 years. I would stay away. Far, far away.

With the number of resignations coming in the next week after today's slap in the face, the schedule is going to become more and more unbearable.

KippaLippa

10th May 2018, 11:13

is EK worth it? NO.

choi3ed

10th May 2018, 11:16

Does EK have a 1 strike your out, never to apply for PIC ever again policy?

KippaLippa

10th May 2018, 11:19

Does EK have a 1 strike your out, never to apply for PIC ever again policy?

No, you'll be given another go after some time, depending on where you were stopped.

choi3ed

10th May 2018, 11:24

"Desert Snake" I am not in my 20's but early 30's. Is there a bias treatment for people of different ages younger or older?

flyaway777

10th May 2018, 11:32

Is there a bias treatment for people of different ages younger or older?

No, we are all treated with the same contempt.

choi3ed

10th May 2018, 11:38

No, we are all treated with the same contempt.

What could they possibly say or do? It appears to me that EK is understaffed, so they won't fire pilots. Do they dock your salary?

flyaway777

10th May 2018, 11:47

Sorry, I was being facetious. They introduced a minimum age of 35 for command on the 380 (32 on 777) and today, as part of The Great Pay Review of 2018, they reduced it to 30 for both fleets. I believe that’s what Desert Snake was referring to above.

choi3ed

10th May 2018, 11:52

Joker11

10th May 2018, 13:23

Man. You picked the wrong time to ask this.

desertcamel

11th May 2018, 07:40

What could they possibly say or do? It appears to me that EK is understaffed, so they won't fire pilots. Do they dock your salary?

Normally, they don't fire pilots for minor mischiefs.( late reporting, missing a duty, getting sick more than 15 days etc)

previous terminations were due to Positive Alcohol on test during checking-in ( Sept 2016 - TRI), positive on use of restrictive drugs, nearly crashed a plane due lost of S.A(Moscow and JFK, but the latter probably had a wasta... managed to keep his job,i heard). , mismanagement of time for bottle to throttle - a few have been caught(Colombo, LHR, SIN etc), A capt getting Psycho in the cockpit. , An Austrian FO was fired after failing a stand-in sim session and his recovery session(PPC 330/340). 777 crash in dxb, Dramatic unstabilised approaches( Damascus, Manchester, Sydney, Jeddah- some of this ended up in demotion of the Captain to FO)

Do they deduct something from the salary? Yes, for the Absent days or missed assignments. Suspension of eligibility for Bonus for 1 year and a Warning letter raised on the personal file for 1 year.

Suspension of Pilots without Pay - unheard of.

choi3ed

11th May 2018, 11:30

An Austrian FO was fired after failing a stand-in sim session and his recovery session(PPC 330/340). .

Well, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't fight with people in or out of the cockpit and I don't get unstabilized on the approach or landings... LOL.
If anyone could explain of how an FO could fail a "stand-in-sim session I would appreciate it.

Thank you

dustyflightdeck

11th May 2018, 11:56

[QUOTE=choi3ed;10143997 I don't get unstabilized on the approach or landings... LOL.

Thank you[/QUOTE]
Never say never . A few months/years of EK rosters, 5am arrival and these things become more likely.

mmmbop

11th May 2018, 12:05

Well, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't fight with people in or out of the cockpit.........

Thank you

If you're stupid enough, or in a position where you're desperate enough I guess, to join EK then you'll soon take all of these up!! :}

(Ok, just kidding, I didn't meet anyone I wanted to fight in or out of the cockpit. Have to say 95% of the pilots you'll find :ok: and the others are just typical of any large group - there has to be some weirdos!!)

desertcamel

11th May 2018, 14:11

Well, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't fight with people in or out of the cockpit and I don't get unstabilized on the approach or landings... LOL.
If anyone could explain of how an FO could fail a "stand-in-sim session I would appreciate it.

Thank you

This FO failed his Upgrade training on the 330, and went to the office to complain about how wrong the training standards are and the way his training were handled. After some time, he was called to support a TRE doing his PPC. The FO was marked down for apparently being Non-Std. And sinced he was due for his own PPC, they scheduled that as his recovery training. The TRE where he stood-in was now the checker and the TRI behind was his partner. they failed him, called in by the Chief and was told to resign instead.

So yeah, in EK you can fail a stand in or sim support, they are graded.

what_goes_up

11th May 2018, 15:43

So yeah, in EK you can fail a stand in or sim support, they are graded.

Not true. Support sim are not graded. But if you grossly misbehave or extremely under perform in a way that the examiner believes you are not safe on the line, he has to take action and inform training management.

what_goes_up

11th May 2018, 17:29

Adam Barfy

11th May 2018, 18:02

So you'd rather have someone knowingly badly under performing flying the line rather than being trained to expected standard... Not me!

Trained????? You have been suppin’ too much company Kool Aid.

A day helping out in the sim should never be graded. There are more than enough regulatory checks to prove your competence in this business.

Unsafe operators, should have been found out during the hiring sim or initial training.
A major fault of this airline is too much checking and not enough training.

IBE8720

12th May 2018, 04:30

"He has to take action and inform training management....."
If he has to do that then its graded, no matter how you try to explain it.
At Ek if you're in the sim, you're under scrutiny!

will keep that in mind next time I hear you whinging that the standard is low, or that you only get monkeys applying because they pay peanuts. Or that the next incident is a result of the training department.

Every airline I know has the same policy. Support or Stand In SIM, Performance is not graded. Incompetence is not tolerated.

desertcamel

12th May 2018, 04:43

This FO failed his Upgrade training on the 330, and went to the office to complain about how wrong the training standards are and the way his training were handled. After some time, he was called to support a TRE doing his PPC. The FO was marked down for apparently being Non-Std. And sinced he was due for his own PPC, they scheduled that as his recovery training. The TRE where he stood-in was now the checker and the TRI behind was his partner. they failed him, called in by the Chief and was told to resign instead.

So yeah, in EK you can fail a stand in or sim support, they are graded.

i stand corrected, support are not technically graded. But can be reported if incompetence were reflected during the sim. I remember OGS are still submitted for the Support pilot.

what_goes_up

12th May 2018, 05:59

i stand corrected, support are not technically graded. But can be reported if incompetence were reflected during the sim. I remember OGS are still submitted for the Support pilot.

Desert, this used to be on Line Check support... not anymore. Sim support no OGS raised.