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bbrown1664
7th May 2018, 10:21
About 3 years ago we took a family holiday in Guadeloupe. We flew Air France from London City to PTP via Paris. We chose to go from City instead of Heathrow/Gatwick to avoid an airport transfer in Paris. All went well on the way out and we had a great holiday. On the way back however, French ATC were having one of their regular strikes and we ended up stranded in Paris with no hope of a flight home to the UK for at least a couple of days (Air France reps words at the airport). Rather than go with the hotels in Paris and a few extra days holiday we took the option to make our own way home and claimed back the expenses. Nothing more was claimed or paid.

I am curious though, could I have made a claim for Air France not getting us back from Paris to London?

Alsacienne
7th May 2018, 10:27
I think you've left it too long if you are serious in making a claim. Besides I suspect you'd need paperwork to back up your claim that you were 'stranded' without any help from the airline and in any case you said ' Rather than go with the hotels in Paris and a few extra days holiday we took the option to make our own way home and claimed back the expenses. Nothing more was claimed or paid. ' which suggests it was your decision to buy your own tickets to get home, and that you did get your expenses back. Why would you expect to be compensated further?

bbrown1664
7th May 2018, 10:41
Why would you expect to be compensated further?

I don't actually expect anything and am against the "claim culture". I am curious though. I know it was over three years ago and the chance of making a claim is zero now but if I had pursued it at the time would I have had a claim?
I have always believed that as it was an ATC strike, a claim would not have been possible anyway but others have told me otherwise.

Duchess_Driver
7th May 2018, 12:40
Off topic I know, but a few weeks ago I was delayed by 4 hours or so on a Ryanair flight. As per EU.261 I applied for compensation from the airline on the Monday and my claim was acknowledge and accepted without question on the Tuesday with a request of my Bank details. (No, the mail didn’t originate in Nigeria). Receipt of those acknowledged on the Wednesday with a note saying the money would be in my bank within 10days. Following Monday, et voila!

There was no out out of pocket expenses just a claim for the “buggeration factor”. No receipts, no quibble, no unpleasantness-just € in my bank. Thanks.

Like others, I suspect you’re a little too late but under the EU law I would think that the minimum of €250 per paying pax regardless of the cause would be payable.

ExXB
7th May 2018, 13:23
Regulation 261/2004 provides that ‘strikes’ are an extraordinary circumstance* outside of the control of the airlines. The airline remains responsible for care (hotac, meals, etc) they are not obliged to pay compensation.

*Recent court decisions suggest that a wildcat strike by an airline’s employees might not be excluded. But there was nothing Air France could have done here to avoid your disruption.

rog747
7th May 2018, 17:19
UK claims for EU compo and expenses can be made back 6 years

other member states time frame differs France is 5

bbrown1664
8th May 2018, 07:11
Regulation 261/2004 provides that ‘strikes’ are an extraordinary circumstance* outside of the control of the airlines.

Thanks ExXB, that's what I thought.

Sultan Ismail
8th May 2018, 11:17
We were booked with SWISS from Geneva to Zurich at 9am for an onward connection to Kuala Lumpur with Malaysia Airlines. The flight takes 30 minutes, however moments before boarding the flight was postponed due a snow microburst over Zurich airport.
We eventually arrived in Zurich and taxied to the gate, watching in dismay as our connecting flight pushed back and departed.
SWISS then rerouted us via Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur using SWISS and Thai airlines.
We arrived home 18 hours later than scheduled with lots of stories to tell our friends.
Now, in today's world would there be grounds to make a claim.
To clarify, the Ticket was SWISS, KL - GVA -KL, the longhaul carrier was Malaysian.

ExXB
8th May 2018, 11:50
You think you should be compensated because of a snowstorm? How is this the airline’s fault? They got you home, which is a lot better than being offered a refund and no rerouting.

Johnny [email protected] Pants
8th May 2018, 19:48
Now, in today's world would there be grounds to make a claim.

No there wouldn’t Sultan, the severe weather that you describe would fall within the extraordinary circumstances and you would be entitled to nothing:D

Sultan Ismail
8th May 2018, 23:27
As a postscript to my long transit at Zurich, SWISS brought on trolleys loaded with water bottles for benefit of queues at transit desks, followed by more trolleys of Swiss sandwiches i.e. baguettes.
No surprise SWISS is my No. 2 carrier, after Singapore, my No. 1

rog747
9th May 2018, 05:51
As a postscript to my long transit at Zurich, SWISS brought on trolleys loaded with water bottles for benefit of queues at transit desks, followed by more trolleys of Swiss sandwiches i.e. baguettes.
No surprise SWISS is my No. 2 carrier, after Singapore, my No. 1

yes although during wx or other type of delays where it is not the airlines fault the EU delay Compo is not possible to claim, the airline has a duty of care for pax welfare (food drink hotac phone call ) and if ness rebooking on another airline and or by rerouting to get pax to their final destination ASAP.
the airline cannot sit back and say the next flight is 5 days time on our airline and leave it there - they have to rebook you on someone else/reroute or hotac you at the very least

ExXB
9th May 2018, 11:23
and if ness rebooking on another airline .... the airline cannot sit back and say the next flight is 5 days time on our airline and leave it there - they have to rebook you on someone else/reroute

Actually that is NOT in the Regulation. Many network airlines will do this, but the Regulation does not require them to.

My fear is that as compensation claims become more and more ridiculous the network airlines are going to stop going beyond what the Regulation requires. Particularly those without status with them.

rog747
9th May 2018, 15:52
Actually that is NOT in the Regulation. Many network airlines will do this, but the Regulation does not require them to.
.

with respect there was a recent confirmation that highlighted one well known Loco that failed to offer the rerouting and was chastised as such in the Courts iirc.
its buried in the jargon and rules and of course the airlines do not want it made common knowledge but it seems it def applies to EU carriers
MSE Martin Lewis has even brought this up on a recent TV interview as that the rule does apply - even if you have to challenge the airlines to do it

radeng
23rd May 2018, 16:26
I was supposed to fly F class from Dayton to Philadelphia on Monday May 21. American had already removed F class on that flight, but I presume that I can get a refund. After Philadelphia, if was F on AA 6216, code share operated by BA068: I don't know why but BA cancelled the flight. AA re-booked me in J - Business Class - on AA736 from Philadelphia to LHR. Presumably I can get a refund of fare differential.

The flight to PHL never got as far as Dayton because of weather....So I was rebooked to Chicago and onwards on AA Business Class to LHR. That was given up when the flight that would have returned to Chicago didn't leave ORD until after the connecting LHR flight would have gone. So they rebooked to BA296, but couldn't get F class - once having changed the service class down, the AA system wouldn't change back up, possibly because AA don't have F class on North Atlantic flights - or so they told me.. Not that it made any difference because BA296 left 30 minutes before AA3017 eventually arrived at ORD. So they paid for a room at the Hilton, but not a meal, and I got a Business Class seat on AA090 at 0900 CDT (1500 BST) on Tuesday May 22, arriving home at 0120 Wednesday May 23.....Lucky to do that because although I had a boarding card for AA090 issued at Dayton, there was supposed to be someone else in that seat, but fortunately he was a 'no show'.

Part of this saga is due to weather, but am I owed anything for the involuntary downgrading?The AA people couldn't even get access to book on BA296 for Tuesday night for some reason, when BA MIGHT have got me into F class if there was room....Note the flights were booked with AA, although transatlantic operated under code share by BA.

Advice, please, knowledgeable Ppruners?

rog747
23rd May 2018, 16:47
radeng

you should have been Hotac'd plus fed and watered - keep any meal receipts and send them in along with your request for the fare differences F to J

compo for weather delays is not possible under EU rules but downgrading can be considered for compo but only for EU airlines when flying into the UK (but not applies out of so any airline ) - had you been booked on BA68 you would qualify but being booked on an AA flight number and on AA paper you do not

quoted from CAA UK
Sometimes, airlines may downgrade the class some passengers are flying in due to a lack of available seats. For instance, this might mean you are forced to sit in Business Class, despite paying for a First Class seat.

Under EU law, you have certain rights if you are downgraded. To be covered by these rules, your flight must be either:

departing from an EU airport and operated by any airline
or
arriving at an EU airport and operated by an EU airline

ExXB
23rd May 2018, 18:11
had you been booked on BA68 you would qualify but being booked on an AA flight number and on AA paper you do notNo, regardless of the marketing airline it is the operating airline that counts here. AA Metal JFK-LHR but BA or IB flight number, the Regulation doesn’t apply.

This, of course, is insane because the marketing airline is who you have a contract with.

But even though the Regulation may not apply the airline still owes you a refund between the fares. You will be surprised how little this can be.

rog747
24th May 2018, 06:47
No, regardless of the marketing airline it is the operating airline that counts here. AA Metal JFK-LHR but BA or IB flight number, the Regulation doesn’t apply.

This, of course, is insane because the marketing airline is who you have a contract with.

But even though the Regulation may not apply the airline still owes you a refund between the fares. You will be surprised how little this can be.


that's what i said!
had he been booked on ba68 on ba paper he would be covered if downgraded to J

ExXB
24th May 2018, 10:06
that's what i said!
had he been booked on ba68 on ba paper he would be covered if downgraded to JBut not if BA68 was operated by AA.

And the ticket issuing airline is irrelevant. BA, AA, SU, FJ ‘paper’ - the same rules apply.

radeng
24th May 2018, 13:39
OK, thanks guys. AA6216 is operated by BA as BA068. But I would then need to have been downgraded by BA, rather than forced onto AA who only offer the Business Class..

WHBM
24th May 2018, 17:23
You think you should be compensated because of a snowstorm? How is this the airline’s fault?
Because your contract is with the airline, nobody else, and it is their responsibility to organise their service suppliers, like airports, to handle whatever arises adequately. Airports in some places manage OK in storms, others meekly give up, or skimped on buying the equipment, or don't know where to hire it in from. And after the event, some recover pronto, others let it drag on. It's for the airline to manage these and other incidents. They know the numbers, how many flights are typically lost, and are the ones to galvanise their suppliers.

Whenever there are LVPs at Heathrow BA is flow restricted. Their decision is always to run their entire long haul programme, even closely-following JFK departures going out half full, and cancel all the domestics. That's their commercial decision. But it's quite inappropriate to then tell the inconvenienced domestic pax that it's "unavoidable cancellation due to fog", particularly when the pax look out of the terminal window and see most departures continuing.

wiggy
24th May 2018, 19:32
Because your contract is with the airline, nobody else, and it is their responsibility to organise their service suppliers, like airports, to handle whatever arises adequately............"".....

Define “adequately”.....I’ve seen circumstances where a snowstorm completely overwhelmed the significant de-icing capabilities of a major North America airport. Out of interest would you accept that in that case “adequate” meant a 24 hour delay and all passengers accommodated overnight and flown to destination a day late, or in your opinion is that not good enough?

Whenever there are LVPs at Heathrow BA is flow restricted.

Firstly when LVPs are in force at LHR all airlines are subject to flow restrictions so BA (since you mentioned them) never really gained from the investment it made in installing, maintaining and keeping short Haul crew current in MLS operation....nevertheless they have to pick up the pieces when disruption due to LVPs happens...

Long haul v short haul cancellations - commercial decision yes, and one which makes sense when you consider the logistics...AAnd if passengers really are seeing lots of departures when cancellations are down to LVPs then I guess the airport and the met man might have got things wrong, not the airline.

TBH even in this day and age **** still happens, I do know some airlines service recovery/disruption handling leads a heck of a lot to be desired but to expect the operation to keep on running seamlessly in the face of snowstorms, Low Visibilities and the like simply isn’t going to happen given capacity issues at many airports and the current technology available.

Heathrow Harry
25th May 2018, 12:41
As many of you will know I'm not a big fan of BA etc etc but you have to be realistic

ANY FORM OF TRANSPORT CAN BE DISRUPTED

and for all but airlines you, the passenger, have no serious come-back however much it's the providers fault.

If it's important enough you go earlier - maybe an hour by train, maybe a couple of hours by road - but if it is important enough - say a wedding or meeting a cruise ship - then travel maybe a day or even two in advance

Sure it costs time and money but that's the price you pay for being sure

Peter47
25th May 2018, 16:10
I flew with Swiss to GVA on 21st April and the flight was delayed leaving but by less than 3hr. The slats then wouldn't retract so we returned to LHR & along with many others were put on a later flight (not the next one as I am told that my bag wouldn't make it) and finally arrived 8.5hrs late. Presumably this is a valid reason to claim delay compensation.

Peter47
21st Jun 2018, 19:41
Further to my last post my claim has been turned down as the flight was "cancelled". Ïs that indeed the defination of a technical return to the airport of departure. I'm afraid that knowing the way that the legislation works you could be eligable for compensation for a three hour delay but not an 8.5 hr one. Any thoughts? Is it worth going to arbitration or not worth bothering?

GROUNDHOG
21st Jun 2018, 21:39
We just filed a claim with BA for a delay of five hours from Calgary under EU regulations. No qualms acknowledged straight away and paid within 48 hours, brilliant service. They also fed and watered us at Calgary and gave advanced notice via text the flight would be delayed although we were already en route to the airport! On a previous trip the delay was due to adverse weather but they still gave us a first class Hotel in Vancouver and fed us until the flight the next day.

Top marks to BA from us!