Negotiating Salary for EK New Joiners

[Your Proxy]

If you are looking at joining EK and have a reasonable amount of experience or relevant type rating, it might be worth negotiating your joining salary.

To do this you need to understand the pilot salary structure.

The pilot salary scale ranges from Level 1 to Level 35. These Levels are known as Steps.

Level 1 is AED 25,460. Each level up to Level 36 is an increment of 3% on the previous level, making Level 30 AED 60,090. This has remained unchanged for the past 5 years. In May 2016, 5 levels were added from Level 31 to Level 35. A step was awarded in that year putting a small number of senior pilots on Level 31. If they had previously been capped on Level 30, they had not received step increments when the rest of the pilots had.

If the "salary" is increased then the whole scale from 1 to 35 would go up by the increment percentage. Apart from a 0,5% increment in May 2013 the salary scale has remained unchanged since May 2011

Salary "Steps" are occasionally awarded. A step is not a salary increase. It is simply moving from one level to the next. Originally this was automatic each year. The idea was to ensure a pilot got paid more for loyalty and experience as he/she spent longer in the company. From when this salary system came into effect in 1996 to 2008 a "step" was awarded every year in line with the original intention of the system. After that there were several years with no step.

The system was transparent to all as the entire salary scale was published with each salary review along with explanatory notes up to 2004. After this the system was deliberately made opaque. A pilot can enquire from HR what Step he/she is on but will not be given the whole scale as before.

By keeping the salary scale practically constant for the past 5 years, inflation has eroded the salaries at EK leading to general discontent as the cost of living in the UAE has risen every year. Government statistics show it as variable between 1% and 5% with a median of about 3.5%. This ignores the increased taxes imposed in the same period. It is only fair to say that there has been a step on most of the past 5 years which somewhat counters inflation. However this implies that loyalty and experience count for little. Such is the modern corporate.

The jump from FO to Captain is simply a jump of 12 steps. An FO who is on say Level 3 and achieves command will jump 12 steps to level 15. Technically a Direct Entry Captain joins on Level 1 and immediately jumps the 12 steps to Level 13.

This keeps everything in line as regards seniority and years of service. If an FO had been around for 4 step increases (Level 4) he/she would jump to Level 16 on achieving command. A DEC joining at the same time would be on Level 13.

At least that's the theory.

However recently EK publicized that they would pay more for experienced pilots. And they do! Pilots are actually in a position to bargain for the joining level. FO's do not necessarily come in on Level 1. They could come in on Level 6 and have a basic of around AED 29,500. They would obviously have to have experience to offer. Likewise DEC's could come in above Level 13 and this does happen. A DEC joining at Level 20 would have a basic salary of around AED 44,600, well above an FO who has done 5 years with the company and upgraded recently.

EK pilots assume that if enough pilots leave this would force the company to increase the salary scale. That is simply not true. The scale can remain largely static. Inexperienced FO's will join to fly the big shiny jet and are happy at Step 1. Experienced pilots can and do negotiate their start salary. There has been no incentive to increase the scale while the entry level experience bar has been lowered. Those already in the system have to hope that EK raise the salary scales or award a step. Failing that the only way to achieve a higher salary is look elsewhere.

For these reasons, my guess is that the salary scale will not change this year. There will likely be a step. An increase in pay per hour is also likely. They would be wise to put up the productivity pay rates as these have lagged even more that the salary scale. Productivity is the cheapest rate per hour that pilots fly. If they don't address it soon people will prefer calling sick to doing the overtime. It simply won't be worth it. In short "manage your expectations".

So New Joiner, if you make it through the recruitment process (or are considering returning to EK) and are sitting on the fence, then be sure to make a counter offer to their contract offer. What have you to lose? The difference of a single level over several years is tens of thousands.

As for loyalty? I think that went out the door years ago.

[felixthecat]

I thought it was 10 steps FO to Captain?

[Ghost_Rider737]

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/395805-pilot-shortage-impact-quite-limited-says-emirates-exec


Emirates is expected to post strong profits when it announces its results next week, after a recovery from a drop in profitability in 2016 owing to a stronger dollar, global economic headwinds and the impact of onboard device related restrictions levied by the US government on flights originating out of the Middle East.

However, in line with what Emirates president Tim Clark said last month (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/transport/394042-emirates-profits-face-challenge-from-pilot-shortage), the current shortage of pilots will weigh in on results, the airline’s executive vice president and chief commercial officer Thierry Antinori told Arabian Business, but not as dramatic as has been predicted on some aviation websites.

“The shortage of 100 to 150 pilots has made us do what we would not have normally done such as cut back on flights to Florida,” Antinori said, “but the impact is quite limited. It certainly isn’t as dramatic as some are making it out to be.”

News of frequencies being cut to other destinations are due to commercial decisions, meant to mitigate the combined impact of historically low demand for air travel during May and Ramadan occurring during the same month, according to Antinori.

“May has been the weakest month in terms of demand since the airline has existed. Ramadan this year will come in May. The combination of both will affect demand negatively,” he said.

Emirates is cutting back on flights to Heathrow in London and Bangkok in Thailand to “to avoid flying empty seats in period when we cannot stimulate the market very much,” Antinori added.

“These decisions are independent of the shortage of pilots we are facing,” he said.Plan to deal with shortageEmirates had already anticipated it would need to deal with the shortage, which is why in November it opened the Emirates Flight Academy, according to Antinori.

“We are now training 170 pilots there, in addition to hiring pilots, so this shortage shouldn’t last more than a couple months.”

The pilot shortage is a combination of a global deficit of pilots and “Chinese airlines attracting pilots at very high salaries,” Antinori added.

He said onus was on Emirates to communicate to pilots that it offers a much better incentive for them to move to Dubai.

“Dubai is a great place for pilots to live with their families. If you had to choose between being an Emirates pilot from Dubai vs options in Guangzhou, Mumbai or Addis Ababa then you’d want to be here rather than shuttle back and forth with your family to a place where the children have difficulties settling in.

"We offer a very competitive package in terms of housing allowance, all-inclusive healthcare benefits as well as other benefits that arise from being a world class city,” he said.

[Python27]

“Dubai is a great place for pilots to live with their families. If you had to choose between being an Emirates pilot from Dubai vs options in Guangzhou, Mumbai or Addis Ababa then you’d want to be here rather than shuttle back and forth with your family to a place where the children have difficulties settling in.



Or you can choose to stay in the civilization, earning an ok salary and never come to any of those pits above ...

[Ghost_Rider737]

:ugh:If you compare living in Dubai with places like guanzho Mumbai or Addis then you ain't setting the bar very high

[CaptainProp]

Perhaps step 3, 5 or 15 makes little difference if you’re never off and rested enough to spend your money, and time, with family and friends...? Just saying....

CP

[Airbubba]

:ugh:If you compare living in Dubai with places like guanzho Mumbai or Addis then you ain't setting the bar very high


Yep, the 'expat lifestyle' is indeed an upgrade for some nationalities. And, if folks continue to leave, you won't have to worry about getting furloughed, right?

An optimist tells us to look at the bright side of the resignations:

The good news is - when the market turns all these guys are moving on (to stay in light of their convictions would be a failure of their integrity) and then your seniority will move up a lot quicker.

As I observed on another thread:

You'll always have some genius telling you that you are making a mistake, his kids love the 'international experience' and going to the 'American School'. He doesn't pay taxes, he's not going to take a pay cut and start over etc. As things continue to go downhill, the justifications for staying become ever more strident and convoluted.

Or you can choose to stay in the civilization, earning an ok salary and never come to any of those pits above ...

Perhaps step 3, 5 or 15 makes little difference if you’re never off and rested enough to spend your money, and time, with family and friends...? Just saying....


On the other hand, if you are trying to build time for the airlines, being worked like a rented mule really helps harvest those logbook hours. Maybe you could chalk it up to 'paying dues'. But it sure isn't a long term lifestyle for raising a family in my opinion.

I remember one of the folks here telling the Cathay guys years ago that they needed to grow some balls. As he advised Captain Underpants on the AOA response to the 49'ers:

Capt. U You are correct, zero balls and thats [sic] the bottom line.

Hopefully he will continue to bravely stand for justice and now confront the EK management over the continuing decline in pay and working conditions. ;)

[Joker11]

“Dubai is a great place for pilots to live with their families. If you had to choose between being an Emirates pilot from Dubai vs options in Guangzhou, Mumbai or Addis Ababa then you’d want to be here rather than shuttle back and forth with your family to a place where the children have difficulties settling in.

"We offer a very competitive package in terms of housing allowance, all-inclusive healthcare benefits as well as other benefits that arise from being a world class city,” he said.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH. That just made my day! I can die happy now.

[dustyflightdeck]

First BBJ now this, merely days before the pay review. Brace yourselves for a huge let down!

[skyvan]

Brace yourselves for a huge let down!

If you have been expecting something earth-shattering, then you haven't been paying attention!

The company is run as a business, first, last and everything in-between. Western companies have a duty of care, there is no such thing here, the managers will do whatever they feel is necessary to make more money for the company, the employee happiness is not considered at all, barring how it would affect the bottom line. They obviously feel that expectations are running too high, so are trying to lower expectations in order to reduce the potential exodus when the bonus/profit share and new salary packages are announced.

[Saltaire]

Well explained Proxy, although I think its a 10 year step from right to left.

For years the "step" was always just assumed although we found out it was definitely not guaranteed. At some point it was written as part of a "3%" raise which is non-sense. It was exactly as Proxy stated, a yearly increase for service, experience and cost of living. From memory, the years of 05-08 were the only years that we really made significant progress in pay. The "step" plus 8% was the highest I believe. The "crisis" changed all that with the pivotal change in the productivity pay from 78-92 hours in 09. Effectively increasing our workload almost 20%. It subsequently dropped to 88 a few years ago.

They are now on the back side of the curve - parked jets with a dubious reputation as an employer who constantly move the goal posts. We now work forced overtime on the cheap at 90+ hours a month. The 777 being the current workhorse with all the turns.
I suspect they will pay the "step" and enhance the flight pay a la FD with an outside chance of a small increase of maybe 1-2%.
I would also hope they lower the productivity threshold again and increase the overtime pay.

Negotiating your own rate is unlikely with so many of the younger and less experienced new joiners. However, those with solid experience and on similar types why not - much like back in 04 when they first started with DECs, they can certainly cut their own deal. I know one guy back then that made more in basic than the trainer! All the power to them.

In the end, we'll take it and accept it. Or not. As always, interesting times....

[burnable gomi]

Is there any other flying related pay on top of basic? Level 30 is still less than USD200,000. Woefully inadequate for a wide body captain, let alone one with 18 years in the company. More than 18 if you haven’t got steps every year.

[thatsme]

Gommi,

Total package for the step 30 guy will around 91.000 aed a month . Thats $300k a year Take home for a line pilot with 88 hours a month. Excluding schooling and medical/dental. Not many airlines in the world will offer that, with that amount of years of service. Fact is, you come here to make money, as always, something has to give. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Its the old story of the 2 buckets. Very simple really. After a very enjoyable 13 years mine are both full and working my notice. Would I recommend this job for a young lad who wants to make some cash, hell yes. Would a recommend this for the lad with kids and wife in tow, not really anymore .

[burnable gomi]

Excluding housing how much is it? Is there flying pay/sector pay/hourly pay on top? Or is it just basic + housing/schooling?

[Gulf News]

A pilot can enquire from HR what Step he/she is on but will not be given the whole scale as before.

Good post Proxy. A fair and thorough analysis. Something I discovered by accident just recently is that you can see what step you are on by looking at your contract adjustment letters in HR direct. Go to the history tab and it is on the far right. The scales themselves however remain a black self guarded secret but given the information that the bottom is 25460 then anyone with a rudimentary grasp of XL could make up a spreadsheet to show the steps. I have posted one. In the Emirates forum in the past and will update it should we miraculously get an adjustment. In my opinion it should be available to all EK pilots but then again shouldn’t the seniority list.

PS: The other posters are correct it is a 10 step increment on upgrade.

[fliion]

If you are looking at joining EK and have a reasonable amount of experience or relevant type rating, it might be worth negotiating your joining salary.

To do this you need to understand the pilot salary structure.

The pilot salary scale ranges from Level 1 to Level 35. These Levels are known as Steps.

Level 1 is AED 25,460. Each level up to Level 36 is an increment of 3% on the previous level, making Level 30 AED 60,090. This has remained unchanged for the past 5 years. In May 2016, 5 levels were added from Level 31 to Level 35. A step was awarded in that year putting a small number of senior pilots on Level 31. If they had previously been capped on Level 30, they had not received step increments when the rest of the pilots had.

If the "salary" is increased then the whole scale from 1 to 35 would go up by the increment percentage. Apart from a 0,5% increment in May 2013 the salary scale has remained unchanged since May 2011

Salary "Steps" are occasionally awarded. A step is not a salary increase. It is simply moving from one level to the next. Originally this was automatic each year. The idea was to ensure a pilot got paid more for loyalty and experience as he/she spent longer in the company. From when this salary system came into effect in 1996 to 2008 a "step" was awarded every year in line with the original intention of the system. After that there were several years with no step.

The system was transparent to all as the entire salary scale was published with each salary review along with explanatory notes up to 2004. After this the system was deliberately made opaque. A pilot can enquire from HR what Step he/she is on but will not be given the whole scale as before.

By keeping the salary scale practically constant for the past 5 years, inflation has eroded the salaries at EK leading to general discontent as the cost of living in the UAE has risen every year. Government statistics show it as variable between 1% and 5% with a median of about 3.5%. This ignores the increased taxes imposed in the same period. It is only fair to say that there has been a step on most of the past 5 years which somewhat counters inflation. However this implies that loyalty and experience count for little. Such is the modern corporate.

The jump from FO to Captain is simply a jump of 12 steps. An FO who is on say Level 3 and achieves command will jump 12 steps to level 15. Technically a Direct Entry Captain joins on Level 1 and immediately jumps the 12 steps to Level 13.

This keeps everything in line as regards seniority and years of service. If an FO had been around for 4 step increases (Level 4) he/she would jump to Level 16 on achieving command. A DEC joining at the same time would be on Level 13.

At least that's the theory.

However recently EK publicized that they would pay more for experienced pilots. And they do! Pilots are actually in a position to bargain for the joining level. FO's do not necessarily come in on Level 1. They could come in on Level 6 and have a basic of around AED 29,500. They would obviously have to have experience to offer. Likewise DEC's could come in above Level 13 and this does happen. A DEC joining at Level 20 would have a basic salary of around AED 44,600, well above an FO who has done 5 years with the company and upgraded recently.

EK pilots assume that if enough pilots leave this would force the company to increase the salary scale. That is simply not true. The scale can remain largely static. Inexperienced FO's will join to fly the big shiny jet and are happy at Step 1. Experienced pilots can and do negotiate their start salary. There has been no incentive to increase the scale while the entry level experience bar has been lowered. Those already in the system have to hope that EK raise the salary scales or award a step. Failing that the only way to achieve a higher salary is look elsewhere.

For these reasons, my guess is that the salary scale will not change this year. There will likely be a step. An increase in pay per hour is also likely. They would be wise to put up the productivity pay rates as these have lagged even more that the salary scale. Productivity is the cheapest rate per hour that pilots fly. If they don't address it soon people will prefer calling sick to doing the overtime. It simply won't be worth it. In short "manage your expectations".

So New Joiner, if you make it through the recruitment process (or are considering returning to EK) and are sitting on the fence, then be sure to make a counter offer to their contract offer. What have you to lose? The difference of a single level over several years is tens of thousands.

As for loyalty? I think that went out the door years ago.

Excellent post, succinct, accurate - factually correct.

Thanks for taking the time to outline the current situation re step/Pay.

[greencoconut]

Level 1 is AED 25,460.

You made this post in May 2018. Just a year earlier (April 2017), this was on the Emirates Group Careers website:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1126x412/screenshot_2019_02_03_at_1_28_26_pm_a0f62b6e9da45d879831460e a302e0cc5b0377e5.png

Did they really drop entry-level pay by AED 5,000 in 2017?

[donpizmeov]

The website shows basic pay plus flying pay for an 88hr month. The level one pay is basic only.

[fighterkok]

Don,

Entry level 1 includes basic + flight pay for "normal" joiners
Entry level 2 includes basic + flight pay for apparently the "enhanced" folks
Info 6 months old when I did enquire

FK

[Ghost_Rider737]

If your housing and kids schooling is covered by the company then surely you can save a hell of a lot of money monthly ?

[donpizmeov]

FK you are right. Was answering the post above mine to explain the level 1 basic pay has not reduced by 5k as was asked, it's just that the website shows the add ons .

Ghost rider come on over and show the boys how it's done .

[SOPS]

As an ex EK person can add this. When you go to EK you are moving to the Middle East. As much as they want to polish it.. Dubai is Third World country, covered in glitz. Scratch the surface and you are dealing with a system that is steeped in the Dark Ages.

To move there as an Expat.. you should be rewarded appropriately,

In the old days of Emirates you where.

However, with no pay increases for years, and people working harder and harder, there is no way you are being ‘ rewarded ‘ anymore to be an expat and move to Dubai

To say that the 30 step gives pays you $ 300000 thousand is a true fact.

However.. if you stay long enough to get to the last step, how long will you live after you stop flying ?

Back when our rosters where based on 78 hours a month and we had a proper contract.. I would say,, Go for it!

Now.. I think anyone joining EK needs to think about it. I never flew the 380, so perhaps the rosters are better. But talking to my friends still there, on the 777, it does not matter how much you earn.. it will ( IMHO) induce an early death

[Python27]

As an ex EK person can add this. When you go to EK you are moving to the Middle East. As much as they want to polish it.. Dubai is Third World country, covered in glitz. Scratch the surface and you are dealing with a system that is steeped in the Dark Ages.

To move there as an Expat.. you should be rewarded appropriately,

In the old days of Emirates you where.

However, with no pay increases for years, and people working harder and harder, there is no way you are being ‘ rewarded ‘ anymore to be an expat and move to Dubai

To say that the 30 step gives pays you $ 300000 thousand is a true fact.

However.. if you stay long enough to get to the last step, how long will you live after you stop flying ?

Back when our rosters where based on 78 hours a month and we had a proper contract.. I would say,, Go for it!

Now.. I think anyone joining EK needs to think about it. I never flew the 380, so perhaps the rosters are better. But talking to my friends still there, on the 777, it does not matter how much you earn.. it will ( IMHO) induce an early death

Unfortunately, still better than shi*** countries in S. A, Asia, Africa and other pits in the world,even for FO's coming from the other side of the Persian Gulf ; slaves in EK, but overall, they claim that it's better than the "jail"

[Emma Royds]

Two points worth bearing in mind are as follows:

Firstly, unless you wish to buy property in Dubai, then you now have absolutely no control over where you end up living. If you have kids then it is highly likely you will be living in a villa in Meydan but the options are a bit more varied if you are only entitled to an apartment. In the past you could opt for company provided accommodation and have the comfort of still having the allowance available, should you wish to find something else more to your liking. This option does no longer exist. I know someone who withdrew their application after this change was announced, as he was uncomfortable with the lack of control over a decision that was fundamental to his happiness in the UAE. Food for thought!

The second point is that the days of exponential rates of expansion are over and time to command could become a lot longer than what we see now and this has and still is a fluid situation at EK. That may not be of much significance to some but one factor that helped to persuade a number to come here (including myself) was the quick command, which in turn would open up more doors as a widebody DEC after a relatively quick period. Given the overall upheaval and sacrifices that are made when moving to the UAE, ask yourself if you feel it would be time well spent to join EK and then leave without getting your command? One could face the prospect of joining yet another airline as an F/O at the bottom of the pack, whilst your time at EK could have been spent climbing the seniority list at your next airline. If you end up joining here and wish to put the years in and wait then that is fine but it could be a different story if you end up envisaging a shorter tenure at EK, compared to what you may have initially planned for prior to joining.

[Reunion974]

Dear EK pilots
just a quick question to a charitable soul who would kindly spare an advice or two based on their own experience at EK. Can an FO on 777 hope to receive clear in his account around 40 000 AED excl Housing (or 54000AED including Housing allowance) on a typical month? That is as a new joiner...
you don’t have to share the actual number if you prefer to remain confidential, just answer by telling me wether the actual monthly figure is above or below that 40 000 AED benchmark. I understand there is a more complex calculation involved if you want a comprehensive idea of the package but I am hoping for a cash flow continuation... Thanks for opening so candidly, in advance, to that kind person.
Another question is about housing: as an FO new joiner on 777, if I have 2 kids and married, am I absolutely assured to get a villa or is there a chance they give us a flat instead? If yes, how long is the waiting list to get an actual villa ?
thanks a million gentlemen
fly safe

[what_goes_up]

Reunion, Cannot comment on your first question. But on the second one... Yes, you will get a villa being married with kids.

[MaverickPrime]

Reunion, according to the emirates recruitment pages, it is circa 31k AED basic + flying pay. I don’t know what makes you think it’s 40k unless you count education/housing allowances or are entering on their enhanced package?

[Rhodes13]

Maverick just a small correction the figure on the EK website includes flying pay so its circa 31k a month plus housing (company provided)

[felixthecat]

Dear EK pilots
just a quick question to a charitable soul who would kindly spare an advice or two based on their own experience at EK. Can an FO on 777 hope to receive clear in his account around 40 000 AED excl Housing (or 54000AED including Housing allowance) on a typical month? That is as a new joiner...
you don’t have to share the actual number if you prefer to remain confidential, just answer by telling me wether the actual monthly figure is above or below that 40 000 AED benchmark. I understand there is a more complex calculation involved if you want a comprehensive idea of the package but I am hoping for a cash flow continuation... Thanks for opening so candidly, in advance, to that kind person.
Another question is about housing: as an FO new joiner on 777, if I have 2 kids and married, am I absolutely assured to get a villa or is there a chance they give us a flat instead? If yes, how long is the waiting list to get an actual villa ?
thanks a million gentlemen
fly safe



https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1494x190/img_0041_90cf3237714d5d92a192f26c1191070e7c68e043.jpeg
This is take home INCLUDING flight pay. It goes on to quote 44395 AED including housing allowance, however you ONLY get that if you BUY your own place, no chance of renting and getting the extra allowance now.

[BigGeordie]

Don't forget the deductions from the above figures for family medical insurance and provident fund contributions.

[ERJ190]

Two points worth bearing in mind are as follows:

Firstly, unless you wish to buy property in Dubai, then you now have absolutely no control over where you end up living. If you have kids then it is highly likely you will be living in a villa in Meydan but the options are a bit more varied if you are only entitled to an apartment. In the past you could opt for company provided accommodation and have the comfort of still having the allowance available, should you wish to find something else more to your liking. This option does no longer exist. I know someone who withdrew their application after this change was announced, as he was uncomfortable with the lack of control over a decision that was fundamental to his happiness in the UAE. Food for thought!

The second point is that the days of exponential rates of expansion are over and time to command could become a lot longer than what we see now and this has and still is a fluid situation at EK. That may not be of much significance to some but one factor that helped to persuade a number to come here (including myself) was the quick command, which in turn would open up more doors as a widebody DEC after a relatively quick period. Given the overall upheaval and sacrifices that are made when moving to the UAE, ask yourself if you feel it would be time well spent to join EK and then leave without getting your command? One could face the prospect of joining yet another airline as an F/O at the bottom of the pack, whilst your time at EK could have been spent climbing the seniority list at your next airline. If you end up joining here and wish to put the years in and wait then that is fine but it could be a different story if you end up envisaging a shorter tenure at EK, compared to what you may have initially planned for prior to joining.

Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. I’m strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is a main factor to me, once it’s almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.

[GE115b]

Don't forget the deductions from the above figures for family medical insurance and provident fund contributions.

I thought EK covered medical for you and your family?

[SOPS]

Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. I’m strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is a main factor to me, once it’s almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.

So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?

[BigGeordie]

GE115b, they provide medical (and dental) treatment for you and your spouse and children, for which they make a monthly deduction from your salary. For a spouse this is 285 Dhs (or about US$78) a month- not a fortune but far from "free". This is basically an insurance scheme BUT Emirates are the insurance provider and the limits for some treatments (especially for family) are not high. Most pilots purchase top up insurance for their families as health care in Dubai is very expensive.

It is worth thinking about this for a moment- your employer is also the healthcare provider (via Emirates own clinic) for you and your family. Your employer will be the one who decides if a treatment is covered or not and they know exactly all about you and your family's medical history. Some people are okay with their employer knowing how many fillings they have in their teeth, some less so.

[ERJ190]

So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?

I used to think like that, but I don’t have any precise information to secure anything. That’s why I’m respectfully asking you guys.
About being a good idea, I get your point, but...maybe it is, considering my current status (really low pay, no upgrade expectations) and the third world country I live in.

Best regards!

[GE115b]

GE115b, they provide medical (and dental) treatment for you and your spouse and children, for which they make a monthly deduction from your salary. For a spouse this is 285 Dhs (or about US$78) a month- not a fortune but far from "free". This is basically an insurance scheme BUT Emirates are the insurance provider and the limits for some treatments (especially for family) are not high. Most pilots purchase top up insurance for their families as health care in Dubai is very expensive.

It is worth thinking about this for a moment- your employer is also the healthcare provider (via Emirates own clinic) for you and your family. Your employer will be the one who decides if a treatment is covered or not and they know exactly all about you and your family's medical history. Some people are okay with their employer knowing how many fillings they have in their teeth, some less so.

Incredible! (in a bad way). So you have to contribute something towards your medical cover, just like the education allowance.

What happens if you get sick enroute or down route?

[BigGeordie]

Just to clarify, the insurance for the pilots is "free" and of course you are covered for treatment on layovers. BUT (there is always a but with EK) they continue to chip away at the benefits for family in Dubai, placing lower limits on what they will pay for a consultation in Dubai (down to 500 Dhs now, which is usually not enough. You pay the extra). More and more hospitals and clinics are also becoming "pay and claim" instead of direct billing. So the cost comes out of your pocket initially and you have to claim it back, hoping you don't fall foul of some small print somewhere that says you aren't actually eligible for that particular treatment.

[Emma Royds]

Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. I’m strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is the main factor to me, once it’s almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.


It would take a significant amount of attrition to create time the time to command that we have witnessed to date.

If you look at this simply with some very rough maths using 4000 pilots with 1000 F/Os on the 777 and the 380 each. Even with 10% attrition on its own (which is probably on the high side), it would take 10 years for an F/O joining now to work their way up. In reality, there are slightly more than 4000 pilots and there is not a 50/50 balance between the 777 and the 380 but I just wanted to illustrate the point that, you will face a longer wait if you simply take attrition into account.

The 777 fleet will in fact shrink slightly, as there will be no new 777 deliveries until the 777X arrives yet the steady trickle of retirements of older 300ERs will continue.

Also worth pointing out that there is limited capacity to expand at DXB due to the shortage of parking stands on the EK aprons during the rush hour periods. Any move to DWC will be a few years away at the very least.

[cerbus]

So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?

And from what I hear the applications are pouring into EK headquarters.
It’s really hard to believe that pilots want to join with everything going on here. Don’t they read or talk to pilots already here?