An Edinburgh-Glasgow pact

[Wheelybin]

So Edinburgh and Glasgow have once again been set against each other to decide who will get a second runway. (Given that Edinburgh has not even got an up to scratch first runway I find this amusing).
Every time that these situations arise there is passion and vitriol displayed from either side of the East/West divide.
Now I believe I have a soloution that will lead to a more peaceful and co-operative future.
Take the money for expanding Edinburgh, take the money for expanding Glasgow , take the money for building a new runway:- wherever it may be and build a bloody great ,state of the art airfield, west of Livingstone in the M8 corridor. (roughly around Shotts)
It will have motorway access,rail access,serve both Cities equally well,be more enviromentally friendly and most importantly we can start from scratch and build what we want and need. So expansion will not restrict current traffic,the airlines can use their dual aircraft on increasing frequencies or providing new routes,we can look at becoming a massive hub for the inter airline alliances (US airlines dropping them off, European airlines picking them up).
A trans-Atlantic flight is an extra hour to hour and a half to get into the South East compared to Scotland. In that time a passenger could have transferred and be on their way to northern europe,think of the possibilities!
I was going to copy this post and send it to my local MP for consideration and then I remembered I was represented by Gordon Brown and so whats the point. Maybe I will write to him anyway if enough of you agree with me and post his reply for humour content.

[Sir George Cayley]

After the Second World War Manchester and Liverpool City Councils explored the possibility of a joint development at RAF Burtonwood situated half way between the two just north of Warrington. This was pre cold war - pre M62 motorway and pre mining for coal underneath.

Unfortunately, from one perspective, the Cities couldn't reach agreement and went their seperate ways. The rest as the say is history. Will our Scottish neighbours fare any better? I fear not.

Sir George Caley

The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door

[Flypuppy]

Just expand Cumbernauld http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/biggrin3.gif

[Meeb]

Shotts is on top of a hill, last thing we need is a Scottish Luton! Trying to avoid the Kirk 'O' Shotts transmitters would be fun though...

The single airport concept was tried before, around the 70's it was mooted a new airport should be built in the valley to the East of Stirling, but it was only ever talked about. There is no chance if happening now.

As for the government playing off Glasgow against Edinburgh, you have to laugh given both are owned by the same company.

The fact Edinburgh does not have a parallel taxiway (yawn) is being churlish. Edinburgh has the growth, and will continue that way. Glasgow has shown a decline in traffic and now with My Travel setting out their stall at Prestwick, it probably will not need extra capacity for a few years yet. Edinburgh will get the extra runway, not least because they have the space for it too.

And before the tit for tat starts, my personal choice would be Glasgow as it is a better run operation, but the business will be at the East end of the M8.

[ajamieson]

From today's Scotsman, Edinburgh set to win battle of the airports (http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/scotland.cfm?id=793332002) written by somebody called Alastair Jamieson. No idea who he is ;)

Spent most of yesterday afternoon ploughing through the 280 page DoT consultation document and it makes interesting reading.

In the 'options' for EGPF and EGPH, the case for Glasgow is peppered with references to who expensive it would be to increase capacity and what the effect would be in terms of noise and road traffic on Renfrew and the M8. The case for Edinburgh, using the crosswind runway and then working towards a new parallel runway in 10/15 years time, is put far more persuasively. Not, of course, that the government has already decided what it wants to do ;)

Don't see how the crosswind runway will increase capacity that much in the short term; I always understood that, if anything, it would make the taxiway/stand congestion even worse.

Interesting to see what BAA makes of this.

[Joe Curry]

The consultation docs do appear to favour EDI

Some interesting plans showing the proposed 'through' rail link, carrying both Fife and Glasgow lines, going under the main runway and into the
terminal.

[http://www2.aviation.dft.gov.uk/aviation/consult/airconsult/scotland/pdf/scot_air.pdf]

Don't think many of us will be around in 30 years time to see two
parallel runways. :-( The 900ft extension to the existing runway, maybe.

[bounty]

ajamieson wrote

Don't see how the crosswind runway will increase capacity that much in the short term; I always understood that, if anything, it would make the taxiway/stand congestion even worse.

Surely it would make sense to spend a smaller amount of money on building more apron/taxiway space to ease congestion that would be caused by using both?

[Joe Curry]

An Edinburgh-Glasgow pact.? Has anyone told this newspaper.?:mad:


[http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/cgi-bin/page?t=news&id=5006524]:mad:

[jumpseater]

The crosswind at Edi would be easier to extend northwestwards with lesser impact on the surrounding area both environmentally and socially, then a parrallel taxi way with multi entry/exit points looks from maps relatively easy. It would be easier than say extending the existing one or putting a parrallel one in to the Northwest of the current main runway. To put in a parrallel runway to todays main runway gives you a problem with Kirkliston and Mons Hill on the departure arrival routes, both operationally and environmentally.

[canberra]

an edinburgh glasgow pact, i think not! having lived in scotland for a few years and seen at first hand the west coast east coast bickering it wont happen. to be honest i would close glasgow, and put all its services at prestwick, if any scottish airport could be easily expanded then this is the one. as for other scottish bickering, after the war errol was offered to perth and dundee as a joint airport but both turned it down. and now ryanair is looking at using leuchars.

[MarkD]

Canberra

what bickering?

So what if some Edinburgh folk can't accept that they're second best :D :D :D

[Sheep fancier]

Since when did Livingston become part of the City of Edinburgh? :rolleyes:

[TheFox]

The cross wind runway at edinburgh cannot really get used until there is more parking, as in the last month all of the times it would have been useful to use it the runway had aircraft parked on it. So until there is more apron space it cannot be realied upon to be open. I do think having it open all the time would make a major difference to traffic numbers though. Edinburgh can improve runway capcity quickly by using other meeas, not needing a new runway just yet. I dont think there can be much expansio airside at Glasgow without costing lots of money.

As to the govermant plans though, i think its a case of frightning the greens with this much, so they will accpet less.

PS Canberra i think sarcasim was used, and the problem with prestwick is it can be difficult to get to along the A77

[Wheelybin]

Fox,
you are absolutley correct, there was a touch of sarcasm in my original post and I believe you are right that the government is proposing massive expansion in order to to be able to push through smaller changes relatively unopposed.
However my later point regarding trying to promote Scottish airfields as an Inter-Trans-Atlantic hub between the States and Europe I actually believe to be valid, if this expansion is carried out correctly.
What I remain to be convinced about is that this government is not actually strategically planning for anywhere other than the South East and what we will end up with in Scotland is piece meal development.

[Joe Curry]

>>Since when did Livingston become part of the City of Edinburgh?<<

When did Paisley become part of the City of Glasgow.? Touche? :rolleyes:

[canberra]

no i wasnt being sarcastic, prestwick is a superb under used airport with the best weather record in the uk. despite the a77 it does have a railway station unlike every other airport in scotland. although leuchars station is ten minutes walk from the camp, perhaps thats why ryanair is looking at using leuchars?

[professor yaffle]

10 mins walk!!
with my luggage!!
and high heels!!!

prof

[Northwest 34]

So much for the glitzy consultation document, designed purely to have us all squabbling about Glasgow/Edinburgh. Why do we need a new runway at all? Surely the issue is about effective public transport and road links to and between airports.

Alternatively, lets think a bit bigger and look at the Central Airport option realistically. It gets 10 pages in the consultation. Everyone involved in aviation, business and tourism should get it onto the agenda as a real go-er.

Furthermore, how can you trust a Government which captions a picture as "Edinburgh Airport" which is actually Glasgow (P109), another of the "Representation of masterplan for the regeneration of Edinburgh Waterfront" which is actually the Clyde in Glasgow (P161), another captioned "Glasgow Airport-airside" which is actually Prestwick (P249) and which states "Scotland does not have any National Parks" (P143) when there are actually two, one of which was only launched two weeks ago??


Over to ground, 121 decimal seven

northwest 24

[Meeb]

This is getting a bit silly and petty. If you think Edinburgh and Glasgow will roll over for a new green field airport development, are you really so naive? Not to mention the approvals for such a project, nimbys etc, nope, will NEVER happen, nor is it needed.

As for blaming the government for typos, jesus!

[Firestorm]

Cue Glaswegian winging what ever happens!:rolleyes:

[Flypuppy]

Central Airport option? Maybe expanding Cumbernauld isnt such a daft idea after all. Close to the A80, and the main Glasgow Edinburgh railway line passes close by.

Half the units on the industrial estate are empty and the Westerwood hotel and golf course at the end of 26 seems to go bankrupt with frightening regularity. Plenty of space to expand.

Nahh too bizarre to contemplate.