USA PPL flight training

[Trislander]

Hi,
I know that this is a widely talked about subject and there is stuff on the archives, but I would like some up-to-date experiences and advice from people about JAA PPL training at either Ormand Beach Aviation, Naples Air Center, FL. Or AA at Long Beach, CA.
I am 17 so money is a big factor and I don't want to waste it on a c**p flying school!

Also what is the deal with visas? Will a waiver surfice, and what do answer to the questions asked by the immigration blokes who pretend they are Chris Tarrant?

Thank you in advance for your help, Tri

[sdanton]

I trained for a PPL in California and spent a lot of time researching whether you do or do not need a visa. If you are hour building you do not, a waiver will suffice. However if you want to do a PPL it is considered a full time course of training and you really should get the M-1 visa.
The school I went to told me that someone got sent home once for refusing the visa.
Good luck with the training!

[Trislander]

sdanton,

How do I get hold of an M-1 visa and how much does it cost?

Thanks, Tri

[This message has been edited by Trislander (edited 16 June 2001).]

[sdanton]

Hello Trislander.
The school issue it to you, then you contact the US embassy and they send you some paperwork which you return to them with a fee of a few quid (along with your passport) Around ten days later you receive it all back with the visa in place.

[GPS Approach]

Trislander,

You can go over on a Visa waiver to do your PPL, as long as you don't mention the word "school" when the immigration chap asks you what your purpose of the visit is, you should be alright. Alternatively if you want to feel safe it is fairly easy to get an M1 Visa, the school I went to in San Diego sent me over a form, then the quickest way is to take it down to the American Embassy in London, with your passport, photos and £25 to pay into their account, you fill a form in and leave it all in a drop box. I got my passport and Visa back within 2 days.

You said your choices were Naples, Ormond Beach and AA in LA, do you mean Anglo American Aviation, if so they are in San Diego. Feel free to drop me an E-Mail if you want more info on Ormond and Anglo as I have been to both fairly recently.

Good luck with your training.



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Aargh, that was the taxiway we landed on!

[PicMas]

Trislander,

You may wanna add Pan Am Intl. Flight Academy in Ft. Pierce FL,to your list. They also offer JAA training, and have M1 visa status.

I work there.... feel free to drop me a mail for additional info..

[Trislander]

Hi guys,

Thanks for helping me out. The price really is the key factor here, thats why I am interested in the cheaper flight schools such as OBA and AA San Diego. I heard that Pan Am is quite pricey. I basically have £3000 to spend on the training and £1000 for eating, etc. Accommodation has to be inclusive with the training.

I assume you have to commit to a flying school before they send you M-1 visa forms. I therefore need to know which flight school to go for ASAP!

Basically I want a good quality instructor who doesn't mind if I ask lots of questions, etc. I have heard that some flight schools are more strict and 'school' like. Does this apply to any of the mentioned schools?

Once again, thank you all for your help. Sorry for all the questions!

Cheers, Tri

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http://www.aurigny.com/images.gb%20/trislander.jpg
"Ayline 221 airbourne"

[mad_jock]

You don't need a visa. When i did my PPL at OBA i just told them i was over on a flying holiday.

I would go for OBA becuase they have just lost a contract with SFT so they should have plenty of planes available.

Watch out for the boss he can be a bit of a tosser. The other good thing about OBA is you get your RT there as well so everyhing is ready to go in the post when you get back.

MJ

[pilotwolf]

I trained rotary in California and like others only did it on a waiver.
Little concerned that you ar recommending a school which has just lost a (big?) contract and has a boss which, in your words, is a bit of a tosser.
If you are travelling that far and spending that sort of money you want to use a school that is A1 with all the staff from the boss to the tea machine that are helpful friendly and have time for YOU the customer.
Incidently I flew with the same school and instructor from 0 - 200 odd hours.
Also remember that the M1 visa is only valid if you train at the school which issued it. You cannot change schools using the same visa if you are dissatisfied. Get personal recommendation from (ex) students before comitting.

[This message has been edited by pilotwolf (edited 17 June 2001).]

[WGW]

Just tell the nice INS man that you're on vacation. Works for everyone else...

WGW


WGW the remarks you made have no place on PPRuNe - please THINK before you press submit.

PPRuNe Pop
Admin
[email protected]

[This message has been edited by PPRuNe Pop (edited 18 June 2001).]

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hey there Trislander

I've shot my mouth off about PPL training in the USA on this forum quite enough in recent months and my views are well enough known ... but honestly mate have you never heard of the phrase 'wanting to drink champagne for beer money'?

Think about the economics of it for a second here. You say you want to go to a cheap flying school. Now given that the fixed costs of running an aircraft are more or less the same across the US training industry, why do you think it is that one flying school is cheaper than another? They can't not pay the fuel bills, or the landing fees, or the insurance - so what other costs can the bucket brigade flying schools drive down?

You guessed it, it's the staff that get the big ramrod treatment ... normally by either paying their instructors peanuts, or cramming more student flying hours per instructor into each day. Either way, you are going to be very disappointed if you think you're going to sit there and dictate that you want 'a good quality instructor that doesn't mind if you ask lots of questions' and gives you all the personalised training and attention you want, that same instructor may have all the good will in the world but he/she has probably got to fly 8 students a day just to pay the rent. In addition, most instructors in those places are people who are looking for a lot of quick hours and then sod off to the airlines, professional career minded instructors know that there's better jobs on offer in the more expensive schools. It all adds up to a big PPL sausage factory with massive staff turnover and poor standardisation, the black and white truth is that a LOT of corners are cut on training in some of these places and it shows.

I keep on saying this and I keep getting hung out to dry by angry Florida PPLs for it, but I have flown as an instructor with quite a few people who have come back from certain well known large training schools in the USA over the years, and I have honestly been appalled by some of the standards I have seen. Typical symptoms of Florida disease include poor lookout, sloppy R/T, lightning fast checklists, and total incapacity to fly the aircraft accurately in anything other than a brilliant blue day with a crystal clear horizon. Symptoms 1, 2 and 3 can all be put down to shabby instruction, symptom 4 is just a consequence of Florida weather of course, but it's still a major problem which we here in less fortunate climes have major nightmares retraining you guys for on your return.

I'm not allowed to name names because PPRuNe gets hot emails from lawyers over it these days, but most of the worst offenders are the ones that take out large glossy adverts in the back of 'Flyer' and 'Pilot' magazine advertising 'guaranteed' PPLs for unbelievably small amounts of money :rolleyes: Gee that school looks really cheap - I wonder where the money for all that advertising comes from?

Before I get the standard attacks launched on me in reply - this is NOT having a go at all US flying schools. Some of the best flying schools in the world are in the USA (WMU, Flightsafety etc). Unfortunately, they charge according to their reputations.

[GPS Approach]

Edited as the offending comment has been removed. Thanks PPRuNe Pop

Trislander,

If you E-Mail with your specific questions about Ormond and Anglo, I will try my best to answer them for you, I have flown at both schools during the past year.

[This message has been edited by GPS Approach (edited 18 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by GPS Approach (edited 18 June 2001).]

[PicMas]

Luke Skytoddler

Here is the reply you waited for:
I'm sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with students trained at US flight schools.
I work at a major US flight school, rather new but really (and I mean REALLY) professional. Being a European myself I can relate to what you say about poor R/T from time to time, something I feel strongly about implementing as an important part of flight training, for the poor flying abilities..... The students follow a strict syllabus where I work, that has standards similar to those found in Europe.
For the weather.. Have you really flown in Florida if you say its nothing but blue sky??
Weather in FL is in my opinion way more challenging than what you find in N. Europe, I have logged some 30 hrs IMC in the past 4 months, with pretty rough turbulence, heavy rain and approaches down to minimums.


Not trying to give you an argument but merely disagreeing.

Safe skies !

[mad_jock]

I am recommending OBA because i found the instruction good. And i completed in 3 weeks with minimal fuss. The boss may be a tosser but he runs a tight maint workshop and we very rarely had a machine tech for more than 1 hr during the day. The air space round there is fun and he is also a RT examiner. Which means you get the whole lot out of the way in one sitting. The fact he is a tosser means that you don't actually get away with crap RT because he makes the whole school do all the correct RT all the time.

The reason why it will be good now he lost the contract is that he has 5 brand new warrors sitting on the ramp along with 12 c150 so planes won't be a problem unlike other schools.

MJ

[andys]

over the past year i have flown with instructors from anglo american, in san diego. i to was good friends with the instructor who died in the unfortunate accident last year.
the instructors at the school are excellent pilots with a very professional approach to instructing. you will find it had to beat anywhere in the US.
i feel it very dissheartning that fello pilots can be so unprofessional, and have such a lack of respect.
so thank you pprune for changing the comments.

[Mariner9]

Trislander,

Having started my ppl training in the UK, & completed it in Florida, I feel I can comment on both.

THE TRAINING IN THE UK IS FAR SUPERIOR.

I've you've got £4K to spend, spend it in the UK. Check out the ads in Flyer, there are a few places where that amount would get you a ppl, providing you undertake an intensive course.

[Riptorn]

Trislander

I posted a similar question to yours a few months back and got lots of good advice.

My intention is still to head for USA because although the consensus seems to be that the training is better in the UK, I can't afford the time off work that UK weather would impose. At least by training in the US I can take the time off in one block and come back (hopefully) with a PPL.

Best bit of advice I was given, especially if you intend to train in the US, is get the ground exams out of the way here in the UK. You'll have longer to study, and you won't have your flying time in the US curtailed by cramming for exams.

Best of luck

Rip

[mad_jock]

Let me know when you are over and where you are based. I will be over first 2 weeks in october in central FL hour building. So if you like and you have time you can come along and see abit more of FL than the training routes. That goes for anyone else over there then as well. The NASA tour at night is great fun if you have company.

MJ


H'mm If there is alot of us over we could have a Key West bash :)

[ravenx]

Trislander,

I finished off my PPL at OBA - more than willing to let you know my feelings about the place but I'd rather not do it publicly because of the strong feeling one way or another regarding this school

[clear prop!!!]

Mariner9

I believe that only those who have trained in the US and UK are qualified to make comparisons, and it's good the read comments from those who qualify to do so on that basis.

I would however take slight issue with your observations and say that training for a PPL in the US to fly PPL in the US is superior to training for a PPL in the UK to fly in the US ..the reverse also applies.

Flight training in the US can be good, very good but things are different here...that does not mean inferior training.

US training and hour building has an important role to play and should not be dismissed.

[pilotwolf]

Have to say on the UK / US training standards...

Get a good instructor in the US and you are miles ahead. I ve flown, (rotary), with several pilots who trained in the UK and achieved PPLs and I was APPALLED at their lack of knowledge about operational flying and the POH. One had never even heard of Density Altitude!

[Gazeem]

As someone who myself began my training in the UK and finished in the states I would say,

The standard of airmanship taught in the UK is far higher at all the clubs I've been to.

The R/T is far briefer in the US and may make an US qualified pilot feel a little overloaded when he returns.

The UK standard of instruction is generally better.

I believe that a fear of flying in anything other than a clear blue sky may be engendered.

However,

I had reached 30+ hours when I decided to go to the states. I had probably had that many hours again cancelled due to the met. So whilst I would have loved to have completed in the UK I couldn't afford anymore TIME.

The US make GA as easy as possible - cheap fuel, friendly ATC and no landing fees, whilst it sometimes seems that the UK goes out of its way to make light aircraft unwelcome - high prices, busy airports which sometimes make GA unwelcome.

So to summarise I would recommend that people reach at least solo standard before venturing to the states (Solo standard can be reached quite quickly without requiring to much from the weather). This will hopefully give you a good sense of airmanship - not to mention enough wisdom to treat any dodgy advice with a pinch of salt!

Gaz

[Gspot]

Trislander,

You may want to read my posting under "Are the Schools in US open over Christmas" or something like that.

I have just read this thread and never heard such a load of bollox in my life. If it were all true I don't think there would be any aircraft left flying here. Of course there are differing standards of instuction and practices but that is not nationally delinited, it's the same everywhere.

I too have flown at both UK and US training establishments, hold both CAA and FAA ATPLs, FAA CFI, CFII, MEI, and AGI, I have type ratings in Hawker HS125, BAC 1-11, Falcon 10 and Boeing 737, I have 8500+ hours so feel somewhat qualified to comment. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

[Trislander]

With all of your help I have narrowed it down to Florida: it is cheaper to get to and cheaper to live/eat there. School- probably OBA because everything is included like R/T.
I will get the M-1 anyway because I don't want to chance being deported as soon as I get there. I will do some training in the UK when I have finished so that I can get used to Brit R/T and weather. I decided that if I spent all of my £ on training in the UK, I will never get it done. The weather is poor and I'll never get airbourne! I am also appreciative of those who can give me advice/experiences of Flight schools such as OBA/Naples/etc in florida. Please e-mail me. Address on the "Who?" section.

When do I organise the Class 2 Medical? before or after?
Cheers, tri

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http://www.aurigny.com/images.gb%20/trislander.jpg
"Ayline 221 airbourne"

[Mariner9]

Clear Prop,

Your point about US instruction for flying in the US is a fair point & I admit I hadn't looked at things that way. However the particular school I was at only taught JAA syllabus.

Just to give 1 simple example of the difference I found between UK/US instruction:

UK prelanding checklist : BUMFFICH
US prelanding checklist : MFC

[mad_jock]

Class2 medicals

If you go to OBA there is a local doctor who will do it for i think 150$ which is cheaper than the UK. If your thinking about commercial you might as well get a class one after 1 year you can still use it as a class 2 and train with the limits that apply with your age.

Don't bother with the M1 i have been over there a few times now and have never bothered.

MJ

[This message has been edited by mad_jock (edited 19 June 2001).]

[aged]

Any opinions about UK Flight Training in California? They also do the RT and the prices seem okay