PDA

View Full Version : Trump visit protests


rusty sparrow
27th Apr 2018, 07:53
Protests against President Trump's visit are being organised e.g. https://www.stoptrump.org.uk/news/ Personally, I welcome his visit as relations with USA should be good. So why all the hate?

VP959
27th Apr 2018, 08:06
When I heard he was coming on the news last night I wondered how long it would be before the protests start. There do seem to be a lot of people around here that just have a dislike for him. That dislike doesn't seem to be based on any of his actions as POTUS, either, it seems to be a personal thing.

Using my local pub chat as a barometer of feelings, I've not heard a single person say a word in his favour. I've not heard much chat about whether he's good or bad as a US President, and US politics is so different to UK politics, plus President Trump doesn't seem to be aligned with the political party he's supposedly a part of, so I don't think the dislike has anything to do with politics.

I think much of it stems from the way those who use social media pick up many of the ludicrous and badly worded "tweets" he sends out, and they end up being treated as a constantly recirculating source of mirth by some, just because he comes over as an overly-sensitive buffoon. The odd thing is that, as a nation, we don't really mind having buffoons as politicians. People like Boris Johnson get laughed at, but with President Trump it seems he has the knack of just polarising people's views about him, personally. I've yet to meet anyone who has openly said anything positive about him as a person, for example.

ExXB
27th Apr 2018, 09:27
I've yet to meet anyone who has openly said anything positive about him as a personI believe some hookers have said he paid his bill in full, and then some. But that may be just a rumour.

The ban on certain nationals affected many British residents and dual-nationals. A friend was born in Iran around the time of the downfall of the Shah. His family emigrated to the UK because of the conflicts and became British. His company needs him to travel to the US for business, but he cannot get a Visa because he is "Iranian".

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 09:41
Protests against President Trump's visit are being organised e.g. https://www.stoptrump.org.uk/news/ Personally, I welcome his visit as relations with USA should be good. So why all the hate?

I do not feel he should meet the Queen or any of our Royal family. If out government/politicians have a desire to speak with him so be it but the meeting should take place on an airbase or possibly at his golf course in Scotland. I feel that if he does enter the country many people will protest.

You ask, why all the hate? Because very many people do not like him or his policies.

ShotOne
27th Apr 2018, 09:53
"..people do not like him or his policies". Unlike some of the blood-soaked despots to whom we've rolled out the red carpet, Mr Trump gained office by electoral process so those who don't like him were outnumbered by those who do. The fact remains, the USA is Britain's most important trading partner and military ally. Being rude to its leader, whoever the US people choose to elect, is pointlessly damaging to our national interest.

ORAC
27th Apr 2018, 09:53
The same cN be said of the head of many regimes that visit the UK - but the usual left wing rent-a-mobs strangely never took affront......

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 10:06
"..people do not like him or his policies". Unlike some of the blood-soaked despots to whom we've rolled out the red carpet, Mr Trump gained office by electoral process so those who don't like him were outnumbered by those who do. The fact remains, the USA is Britain's most important trading partner and military ally. Being rude to its leader, whoever the US people choose to elect, is pointlessly damaging to our national interest.


He was certainly not voted in by a landslide and some of the electioneering was to say the least "questionable"...
As far as I know we are still allowed to express our opinions and protest in the streets. In what way will protesting "damage our national interest" ?/ I don't see it. It may upset Trump, he is reportedly a sensitive little flower...!! He is able to say some pretty vile things but when people return the compliment he becomes all sensitive. I certainly hope he is made most unwelcome here. Just as an aside the President of France did not exactly give him or his policies a ringing endorsement...!!

ShotOne
27th Apr 2018, 10:38
I don't recall the Chinese premier being elected by a landslide prior to his visit here. Or at all, in fact. What has the electoral margin to do with it? If a U.K. leader was treated with open disrespect on a foreign visit most of us would take it as disrespectful to U.K.

currawong
27th Apr 2018, 11:02
Right or wrong. Love him or hate him. (for whatever reasons)

He is the leader of a country and should be accorded the appropriate respect.

One sees it more and more in the media - a leader they do not approve of is referred to by their surname only. No "Mr" or "President" preceding their name.

I for one think that is not right or proper.

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Apr 2018, 11:11
So why all the hate?
You'd have to ask him why he hates so many people, I don't think anyone here will know.

tartare
27th Apr 2018, 11:25
I suspect you'll see huge protests in London.
Probably a precursor to the massive demonstrations in the US when he finally miscalculates and actually fires Mueller.

VP959
27th Apr 2018, 11:28
Right or wrong. Love him or hate him. (for whatever reasons)

He is the leader of a country and should be accorded the appropriate respect.

One sees it more and more in the media - a leader they do not approve of is referred to by their surname only. No "Mr" or "President" preceding their name.

I for one think that is not right or proper.

Sorry, but my view is that respect has to be earned. Just because someone decides they want to run for President of the USA, and has enough influence to get enough votes to win, doesn't automatically grant that person the right to respect. The same applies equally to anyone else, including our own Prime Minister, The Queen, the Presidents of China, North Korea or wherever.

There are also two sides to respect. There is respect for the actions of a person in a role, for example whether the policies they have implemented have improved people's lives, and there's respect for an individual that is derived from their personal attributes, unrelated to the position they hold.

My personal view is that it's not for me to judge whether or not President Trump is doing a good job for the people of the USA.

I can hold a view as to what I think of him as a person though, and in my opinion, he deserves no respect at all for appearing to be a misogynistic, and possibly racist, narcissist, who comes across from his constant flow of direct communications to the entire globe as being a thoroughly unpleasant individual. I can't recall any other President of the USA that I've ever felt such a strong personal dislike for, although I can only really remember back as far as President John F Kennedy, before that I can't even remember their names. I can remember being a bit shocked by the actions of President Nixon, not being that shocked by the personal actions of President Clinton (although I thought he was bloody stupid to do what he did), but no President of the USA has been the butt of so many jokes worldwide, as far back as I can recall, as President Trump has.

Sir Niall Dementia
27th Apr 2018, 11:34
Met him, disliked him intensly, but, the democratic process is more important to me than my personal opinion of him. We also have a democratic process, and as a nation we need to deal with other nations, nasty tyrranies included.

SND

ExXB
27th Apr 2018, 11:58
Met him, disliked him intensly, but, the democratic process is more important to me than my personal opinion of him. We also have a democratic process, and as a nation we need to deal with other nations, nasty tyrranies included.

SND

Was he elected democratically?

However I recall President XI was protested too. The right to protest is a democratic right.

Gault
27th Apr 2018, 12:12
I'll be there, The man (I use that term loosely) is not worthy of a state visit.

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 13:05
He is the leader of a country and should be accorded the appropriate respect..

Why?? He deserves no respect.... As said by others, respect needs to be earned......

I don't recall the Chinese premier being elected by a landslide prior to his visit here. Or at all, in fact. What has the electoral margin to do with it? If a U.K. leader was treated with open disrespect on a foreign visit most of us would take it as disrespectful to U.K.

The Chinese do not have what we would recognise as democratic elections, so comparison is pointless. Yes, margin does have quite a bit to do with it. I can think of one past UK leader who did not deserve much respect.. """No names, no pack drill..!!! ."""

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Apr 2018, 13:24
Why?? He deserves no respect.... As said by others, respect needs to be earned......
I take a different view, as expounded by one of my schoolteachers:

"Everybody is due respect simply by virtue of being a human being ... unless and until they choose to demonstrate that they don't deserve it."

Which Trump has done many times over.

Highway1
27th Apr 2018, 13:35
Was he elected democratically?



In what way do you think he wasn't?

MG23
27th Apr 2018, 15:25
So why all the hate?

Soros pays well. At least if you're used to living in a bedsit and eating beans.

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 15:47
I take a different view, as expounded by one of my schoolteachers:

"Everybody is due respect simply by virtue of being a human being ... unless and until they choose to demonstrate that they don't deserve it."

Which Trump has done many times over.

Oh yes, would you apply the same logic to Assad of Syria......????

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Apr 2018, 16:14
Oh yes, would you apply the same logic to Assad of Syria......????
Yes. For the first few minutes of his life, at least, he hadn't done anything to not deserve respect.

ExXB
27th Apr 2018, 17:04
In what way do you think he wasn't?The US is not a democracy, it is a republic. I’m certain you know the difference. A democratic vote would have rewarded the candidate with the most votes. The US presidential election did not do that.

Highway1
27th Apr 2018, 17:45
The US is not a democracy, it is a republic. I’m certain you know the difference. A democratic vote would have rewarded the candidate with the most votes. The US presidential election did not do that.


But the election wasn't held under the Plurality system - it was held under the Electoral College system. They are different yes, but that difference doesn't make the system undemocratic.

Krystal n chips
27th Apr 2018, 17:57
Other than the fact this is JB, and thus predominantly pro anybody or anything which is aligned to right wing politics, anybody care to offer specific reasons as to why members of the UK population should not exercise their democratic right to demonstrate against the visit ?.

Let's remember, this is not about being "anti America / American " , it's specifically about one American and one American only.

I find it ludicrous to suggest people are purely influenced by social media in respect of this individual and do not possess the ability to form their own opinions on the basis of his actions, his speeches, his policies and the constant change of personnel ( along with various allegations ) since he took office.

My biggest concern is this.

With Derby station being remodelled from July to Sept, trains to the capital on the day are subject to cancellation and change without notice .
Even getting to Birmingham will be difficult, but considerably cheaper.

Which, for those who can't understand principles on here, means I intend to try and attend the demonstration.

That's if he actually arrives in London because lets be honest, leaving aside "rent a mob ", who would demonstrate against cats licking their backsides if they felt this would give them an excuse for a demo, there's going to be a very high attendance, and it's impossible to even guess the numbers at this stage, which will be a security nightmare for the police / security services to manage and contain.

MG23
27th Apr 2018, 17:57
A democratic vote would have rewarded the candidate with the most votes. The US presidential election did not do that.

A democratic system would have Federal voter ID laws that prevent the Democrats from stuffing the ballot boxes with votes from corpses and illegals, or just plain old 'vote early, vote often'.

Trump almost certainly won the most votes from live Americans who only voted once.

MG23
27th Apr 2018, 17:59
Let's remember, this is not about being "anti America / American " , it's specifically about one American and one American only.

Yes, the President of the United States. Who you are kind of relying on to be nice to you in trade talks after Brexit.

meadowrun
27th Apr 2018, 18:03
Lots of definitions of democracy aren't there.
To me it means "one person, one vote"
How those votes are then assembled into the complicated "how we count" structures, usually alters the effects of that one vote in various ways.
Lawyers must have been involved.

Pontius Navigator
27th Apr 2018, 18:05
No representation without taxation.

Exactly what do protesters hope to achieve? POTUS has no need, and probably no desire, for the approval of the people in London. I say people as it is a certainty that many will not be British.

Krystal n chips
27th Apr 2018, 18:08
Yes, the President of the United States. Who you are kind of relying on to be nice to you in trade talks after Brexit.

Erm, slight problem with this suggestion.

I don't actually believe in fairies living at the bottom of my garden. Pigs that fly however, well that's not a very appetizing prospect either..

US farmers say chlorine-washed chicken should be part of a UK free trade deal - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43899603)

VP959
27th Apr 2018, 18:16
Yes, the President of the United States. Who you are kind of relying on to be nice to you in trade talks after Brexit.

It seems to me that POTUS is really just a loud-mouthed, crude, figurehead, and that the sensible diplomacy is done by people within the US Government who are one heck of a lot better at managing things. President Trump is, quite frankly, just a loose cannon, who claims credit for the actions that are really implemented by others, or are just happy accidents, and blames everyone else for anything that doesn't go to plan. I've lost count of how many times he's contradicted himself now, as it seems to be virtually every other Twitter comment contradicts something he's previously stated. I would guess that the USA is really running well because there are a lot of good, sensible, people, who know how to do their jobs, and are managing (goodness only knows how) to rein in most of his major gaffes.

I might change my view if something he's promised really happens, like Mexico building that border wall he's demanded......

Windy Militant
27th Apr 2018, 18:27
If he does come will the TSA let him back in! :E

LGS6753
27th Apr 2018, 19:11
KnC wrote:
anybody care to offer specific reasons as to why members of the UK population should not exercise their democratic right to demonstrate against the visit

All they are doing is "virtue signalling".
Their protests will make no difference to President Trump.
They are in fact protesting against the office-holder (democratically elected) of our most important ally and as such will offer offence to our ally's population, who hold the President (whoever it is) in the highest regard.
Who on earth would want to associate him/herself with simpleton socialists such as Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell?

MG23
27th Apr 2018, 19:22
It seems to me that POTUS is really just a loud-mouthed, crude, figurehead, and that the sensible diplomacy is done by people within the US Government who are one heck of a lot better at managing things.

Um, yes. You've never heard of 'good cop, bad cop'?

You think North Korea would be talking about denuclearisation and an end to the Korean War if Trump hadn't put on his batcrap-crazy Twitter face?

VP959
27th Apr 2018, 19:26
Um, yes. You've never heard of 'good cop, bad cop'?

You think North Korea would be talking about denuclearisation and an end to the Korean War if Trump hadn't put on his batcrap-crazy Twitter face?

I don't think the US had anything much to do with the change of position by NK. They have seriously screwed up their nuclear test site, are virtually bankrupt, the population of NK is almost certainly suffering a great deal more as a result of sanctions and China has, I'm certain, told NK in no uncertain terms that it has to get it's act together or face real (rather than pretend) sanctions from China as well.

meadowrun
27th Apr 2018, 19:28
Don't these people have anything better to do than have some shallow, self-feeding get together making noise pollution about some usually far away individual?
At least in the 60s and 70s we had something decent to protest.

obgraham
27th Apr 2018, 19:37
So just what is it you protesters are protesting?

Are you protesting the policies of Trump? That's fine, and in the tradition of democracies everywhere.

Are you protesting that he is allowed into the country? Well if so, you are demonstrating the antidemocratic view so prevalent these days that "we won't allow the expression of ideas with which we do not agree".

Pontius Navigator
27th Apr 2018, 20:23
I suppose there is one valid reason for protest, not protest against the democratically elected leader of the USA, but the unelected and self proclaimed leader of the free world.

Why?

Define Free.

List free world.

ShotOne
27th Apr 2018, 20:47
So in summary, everything that goes wrong in USA is personally his fault and everything that goes right, a happy accident? Whatever the rights of that, America is our ally and trading partner and whichever leader they elect should be treated with full courtesy.

lomapaseo
27th Apr 2018, 21:08
How absurd can this get?

If the president of the US came over waving a white flag of reconciliation would the Brits still protest?

I really wonder if they have thought this thing through or are being led by the sight of shiny knifes to cut off their noses to spite their face

Captivep
27th Apr 2018, 21:09
A democratic system would have Federal voter ID laws that prevent the Democrats from stuffing the ballot boxes with votes from corpses and illegals, or just plain old 'vote early, vote often'.

Trump almost certainly won the most votes from live Americans who only voted once.

Really? Any proof of that? You know, things like people being prosecuted for fiddling the election, or independent research clearly backing up your claim?

Gertrude the Wombat
27th Apr 2018, 21:31
Who you are kind of relying on to be nice to you in trade talks after Brexit.
I don't seriously think anybody is that daft.

(Except, I suppose, some brexiters.)

llondel
27th Apr 2018, 21:40
Right or wrong. Love him or hate him. (for whatever reasons)

He is the leader of a country and should be accorded the appropriate respect.

One sees it more and more in the media - a leader they do not approve of is referred to by their surname only. No "Mr" or "President" preceding their name.

I for one think that is not right or proper.

He has to earn my respect and thus far has failed. I have made a point never to use his name and the title of his office in the same sentence. He's the sort of person the writers of the US Constitution had in mind when they wrote some parts of it, and it will be interesting to see whether they did a good enough job that the country survives him.

racedo
27th Apr 2018, 23:20
He was certainly not voted in by a landslide and some of the electioneering was to say the least "questionable"...
As far as I know we are still allowed to express our opinions and protest in the streets. In what way will protesting "damage our national interest" ?/ I don't see it. It may upset Trump, he is reportedly a sensitive little flower...!! He is able to say some pretty vile things but when people return the compliment he becomes all sensitive. I certainly hope he is made most unwelcome here. Just as an aside the President of France did not exactly give him or his policies a ringing endorsement...!!

1992 Bill Clinton was elected with 43% of the vote
2016 Donald Trump was elected with 46.1% of the vote

MFC_Fly
27th Apr 2018, 23:23
How absurd can this get?

If the president of the US came over waving a white flag of reconciliation would the Brits still protest?

I really wonder if they have thought this thing through or are being led by the sight of shiny knifes to cut off their noses to spite their face

Hold on there fella! It is not "the Brits" that are protesting, it is a very small minority of people that like to mouth off about anything that they disagree with. You find people like that in all countries of all nationalities, even Americans in the USA.

racedo
27th Apr 2018, 23:32
I welcome his visit, just like I welcome the visit of ANY US President and there have been a few I detested.

Of course those protesting can expect US Government to reciprocate when they seek visits to the US.
US Government doesn't tend to be that forgiving.

Irish friend remembers back to when Ronnie Reagan visited Ireland with many of his Uni Colleagues out protesting
and signing petitions.
Seemingly when following year they applying for holiday visas for student work in the US few got them for various excuses.

Friend claims he was a left wing militant then, job, age, marraige and kids changed that but he opted out of the visit protests
knowing the likely consequences.
As he worked for 20 years with a US Multinational post University it proved a good decision as he did lots of visits over the
years. These days with social media I fully expect there to be even more collecting of personal data.

cavortingcheetah
27th Apr 2018, 23:36
This little snippet from the Morningstar should tell you all you need to know about the real motives behind the organised protests.

DONALD TRUMP's visit to Britain will include talks on the secretive US-Britain trade deal, campaigners warned today.
Activists vowed there will be "no fawning welcome" for the US president or his trade agenda, which is opposed by more than 80 per cent of the British public.
Global Justice Now, a member of the Stop Trump coalition, welcomed plans for mass protests against Trump's visit in July, on Friday 13.
The prospect of mass protests putting Trump off a US-UK trade deal should be embraced due to its threat to food standards and public services, the campaign group said.
Global Justice Now director Nick Dearden said: “Let’s be clear: a trade deal with this man is not a ‘prize’, it would be a disaster.
“If mass protests against Trump’s visit also derail a trade deal, it will be a double success.
“The people of Britain are overwhelmingly opposed to the sort of trade deal Trump will offer, which promises chlorine chicken and a further privatised NHS among many other attacks on UK standards and protections.”
He said the Foreign Office “already fawning over Trump's visit is a humiliation” and reveals how desperate the government is for any trade deal post-Brexit – even if it means selling British people down the river.
Mr Dearden called on the demonstrations to be “a carnival of resistance” and will take a strong stand against Trump's racism, bigotry, misogyny, transphobia and his “ultra-corporate” trade agenda.
Polling of International Trade Secretary Liam Fox's own constituents by Global Justice Now found up to 88 per cent oppose US food standards being imported and 63 per cent oppose offering US corporations access to NHS.
And the Institute for Public Policy Research (IPPR) think tank earlier this month revealed in a survey that 82 per cent of Brits favour retaining high food standards over the US trade deal.
Stop the War convenor Lindsey German told the Star: “Friday 13th will not be a happy one for Trump.
“We can guarantee that he will face demonstrations from the time he lands until he leaves. We don't want his wars, his racism and his sexism.
“There is huge opposition to Trump in Britain and to his friend Theresa May. Time to end the special relationship.”

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 23:45
These days with social media I fully expect there to be even more collecting of personal data.

That is certainly NOT good news. Just another example of the misuse of such data.

Planemike
27th Apr 2018, 23:56
KnC wrote:


All they are doing is "virtue signalling".
Their protests will make no difference to President Trump.
They are in fact protesting against the office-holder (democratically elected) of our most important ally and as such will offer offence to our ally's population, who hold the President (whoever it is) in the highest regard.
Who on earth would want to associate him/herself with simpleton socialists such as Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell?

I certainly hope they do make a difference to Trump, I really hope he is much offended which he probably will be if the message gets through to him. He reportedly is a tender little flower who is easily offended. OK for him to offend folk but when the compliment is returned he is not so happy. What difference does it make that he is supposedly democratically elected? He is a totally unsavoury character however he arrived in office. It would be better if he were NOT in office. Hope he is soon out of office and replaced by a better person as president. .

racedo
28th Apr 2018, 00:25
That is certainly NOT good news. Just another example of the misuse of such data.

Maybe, maybe not but when you abuse Leader of a country then don't be surprised if they decide you are not welcome.

Would HMG really welcome someone who abused the Queen ?

Ogre
28th Apr 2018, 00:30
I haven't read the whole thread, but my personal 2p worth is thus:

When Trump got elected the Democratic side of the US let forth a great howl of anguish because their candidate didn't win. Since that point they have behaved like spoilt children, refusing to accept the result and doing everything they can think of to delay, harass, confound and obfuscate the winning Republican side from doing anything useful. Effectively the country is being held to ransom.

Because of the great world wide web and the ability for anyone with an idea or a grudge to preach globally, the Democratic howl of anguish has travelled to other countries, where similar like minded people have heard it and, being sheep, repeated it over and over again. Hence the global howl of anguish is not about Trumnp, it's about the Democrats desperately trying to stop the current incumbent just because he isn't a Democrat.

If you look at the stories being raised about Trump, he may not be the perfect gentleman that people expect POTUS to be, but the chances are his predecessors on both sides weren't wither. The difference is that this time round the media is trying to decide what is right and what is wrong, and the interpretation will depend on which side of the voting spectrum you sit.

Hence the furore in the UK is down to the sheep who listened to, and believed, the Democrat howls of protest.

parabellum
28th Apr 2018, 06:50
What Ogre said!........

currawong
28th Apr 2018, 07:11
To bang on about respect being earned is frankly laughable and not my point.

Many here will have a background where respect for the individual is not what is accorded, but rather respect for the office/rank/position that they hold.

ExXB
28th Apr 2018, 08:00
While the discourse between the two political sidesl in the US is interesting, it relates little to the British people protesting the current US President’s visit to the U.K.

But to what will these protesters be protesting. I agree with those that suggest that such protests would have little effect on the views of Mr. Trump. I doubt he would even see a protester, other than on Fox News, and would be flown from place to place in his special helicopter.

So so what would these people be protesting? I suspect their objective would be to send a clear message to their own government and attempt to influence their views. It is a particularly weak government and are not looking to lose support. Of course this being the land of lager-louts there will be some that are just looking for a fight as entertainment and bragging rights.

But it it is their right to protest and they should be free to do this legally, just like US citizens are free to protest in their country.

currawong
28th Apr 2018, 08:36
Indeed.

Yet in a democracy, why protest?

Better off saving it till the next election and making your feelings known through the ballot box.

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 08:38
The Morningstar says 80% . . .they didn't ask me, did they ask you?

That was a typical piece of inflammatory rabble rousing.

The actual protests will be loud, vocal and visual. They will get media coverage far beyond the real support, or disinterest in the country. I would bet that as soon as the media gets its snap shots and sound bites, a quick word from JC, and away, that the crowds disperse too.

ORAC
28th Apr 2018, 08:39
Whilst there will doubtless be some restrained polite protests during his visit, I am willing to take bets that there will also be numerous riots by the usual left-wing anarchist rent-a-mobs through the streets assaulting the police, looting shops and disturbing the peace.

Whilst there will be excruciating hand wringing and attempts to absolve them of blame by claiming Trump made them do it by his provocative act of visiting the UK and actually daring to follow his election manifesto in office.

Krystal n chips
28th Apr 2018, 08:44
What Ogre said!........

Which, other than attempting ( and failing lamentably )to blame the Democrat's for all the global antagonism, was what, precisely ?

However, all is not lost because this column does offer some of the reasons individuals choose to demonstrate against the visit..

Whilst for fairly obvious reasons, it's highly possible the visitor won't be exposed directly to the demonstrators and their sentiments, and can simply fly home afterwards, the legacy of the visit will remain firmly with the current UK Gov't ....

Not forgetting the UK population, whilst not averse to demonstrating, are hardly noted for participating in frequent large scale mass demonstrations......... until provoked.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/27/trump-britain-bigotry-president-visit-politics-protests

ShotOne
28th Apr 2018, 09:10
If Morning Star, UK mouthpiece of the Communist Party which murdered, tortured and starved to death tens of millions of people is objecting, that ought to be reason of itself to support this visit.

sitigeltfel
28th Apr 2018, 10:36
The manchild, Owen Jones, seems to have been given unfettered access to spew his bile about Trump across the media. This thirty-three year old adolescent is in full "toys out of the pram" at the moment and you have to wonder about his sanity. He seems to be on every screen and I think it has more to do with his comedy value than any point he rants on about. I bet he reruns footage of himself while wallowing in self appraisal, while everyone else is thinking "tool".

racedo
28th Apr 2018, 11:18
If Morning Star, UK mouthpiece of the Communist Party which murdered, tortured and starved to death tens of millions of people is objecting, that ought to be reason of itself to support this visit.

So Morning Star UK personally tortured and starved to death millions in the UK................. it is where it is based and operares.
Who knew ?
Where were all these people ?

Gault
28th Apr 2018, 16:20
Are you protesting that he is allowed into the country? Well if so, you are demonstrating the antidemocratic view so prevalent these days that "we won't allow the expression of ideas with which we do not agree".

Oh the Irony...you do realise protesting something is not the same as dissallowing something..don't you?, also you do realise that protesting against anything (thats right anything at all is also a foundation of democracy?, or do you?
I can protest against him even if it's just because I think he is a disgusting person, It's my right in a free country and certainly not anti-democratic just because you disagree

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 16:51
So Morning Star UK personally tortured and starved to death millions in the UK................. it is where it is based and operares.
Who knew ?
Where were all these people ?
Prat

It was the Communist Party in USSR and these people are buried or burnt.

ImageGear
28th Apr 2018, 17:38
The American people voted President Trump into power.
The British people may choose to elect Jeremy Corbin into power.
Which is the lesser of the two evils?
If you thought you needed a bunker after President Trump was elected, what do you think might save you if Jeremy Corbin is elected?
IG

Krystal n chips
28th Apr 2018, 17:50
The manchild, Owen Jones, seems to have been given unfettered access to spew his bile about Trump across the media. This thirty-three year old adolescent is in full "toys out of the pram" at the moment and you have to wonder about his sanity. He seems to be on every screen and I think it has more to do with his comedy value than any point he rants on about. I bet he reruns footage of himself while wallowing in self appraisal, while everyone else is thinking "tool".

Siti old boy ( or bean for Jinders benefit ) !

Truly, thou hast excelled thyself with the above polemic ! So much rhetoric compressed into so few lines must shurely be a testimony to your former expertise in that arcane format known as Service writing !

Paradoxically, thou were less forthcoming when the grinning fizzog and exhortations of Nige were forever gracing our screens and newspapers on a daily basis.

No matter, because Owen Jones is far from alone in expressing his views and rationale in support of the proposed demonstrations.

You will be pleased to learn I have solved my potential travel dilemma on the day and will now be attending. Would you care to join in I wonder, or, will it be more relaxing to view from a safe distance, say the South of France for example, and simply add your unique critical perspectives for the adulation of the rapt throngs of avid JB readers.

Obviously, I can't say what I'll be wearing on the day, but, for ease of identification on the news reports, I will have a rolled up copy of the Guardian under my left, naturally, arm. Maybe you can pop over to dear old Blighty and join in for the day....perfect excuse to release all that pent up and latent inner socialist within you after all ! .

Just out of idle interest, will any of you chaps be buffing up the brogues, dry cleaning the tweed suit, pressing the starched white shirt and adorning your necks with the Regimental / Squadron tie ( Windsor knot here perlease ! ) to grace the boulevards of London with a "Stars and Stripes" flag in one mit, "Union Jack" in the other, to be waved in perfect harmony as you stand rigidly to attention as the cavalcade passes ?

racedo
28th Apr 2018, 18:04
Prat

It was the Communist Party in USSR and these people are buried or burnt.

Morning Star is not Communist Party in USSR........................next

sitigeltfel
28th Apr 2018, 18:21
Morning Star is not Communist Party in USSR........................next

The USSR bought 6000 copies of the Morning Star every day at full cover price, most of which went to be pulped. A pathetic attempt to disguise their funding of the UK Communist Party.

Pontius Navigator
28th Apr 2018, 21:46
Morning Star is not Communist Party in USSR........................next
UK communist Party whose parent body CPSU . . .

racedo
28th Apr 2018, 21:51
The USSR bought 6000 copies of the Morning Star every day at full cover price, most of which went to be pulped. A pathetic attempt to disguise their funding of the UK Communist Party.

Pretty poor disguise isn't it when everybody knows about it.

As Communism pretty much ceased to exist in USSR at the same time USSR did then who buys it now.

racedo
28th Apr 2018, 21:52
UK communist Party whose parent body CPSU . . .

And who funds it now ?

V who funds BBC Worldservice

parabellum
29th Apr 2018, 02:37
whilst not averse to demonstrating, are hardly noted for participating in frequent large scale mass demonstrations......... until provoked.

or paid enough.

Pontius Navigator
29th Apr 2018, 08:08
And who funds it now ?

V who funds BBC Worldservice
Come on racedo, you are taking the proverbial now. CPGB was disbanded, CPB is minute. Morning Star needs a monthly infusion of money from where?

And the WS, what are you suggesting? Have they killed millions?

BEagle
29th Apr 2018, 08:43
parabellum, the Windsor knot is now a mandatory uniform requirement for the RAF....

When I joined in 1968, the Windsor knot had been banned at my public school; however, I had to learn how to tie the spiv's knot on my first evening in the South Brick Lines.

I note that the Royal Family still does not use the Windsor knot when wearing RAF uniform though.

Personally I hope that everyone will simply ignore Trump when he inflicts himself on the UK on 13th July. Far more effective to starve an egotist of the oxygen of adulation for which he craves.

Pontius Navigator
29th Apr 2018, 08:53
Personally I hope that everyone will simply ignore Trump when he inflicts himself on the UK on 13th July. Far more effective to starve an egotist of the oxygen of adulation for which he craves.
Indeed I heard this suggestion on Radio 4 yesterday. It was prefaced with 'if you happen to be there when he passes' and just turn your back.

Maybe his motorcade should route via Coventry.

racedo
29th Apr 2018, 10:48
Come on racedo, you are taking the proverbial now. CPGB was disbanded, CPB is minute. Morning Star needs a monthly infusion of money from where?

And the WS, what are you suggesting? Have they killed millions?

Morning Star circulation..................... 10,000
Hell I might even buy it next time I see it as want media to survive.

Bit like US Congress stating that 2 tweets from Russian Media (cost $30) which were retweeted or seen by SFA were responsible for HRC losing and proves Russian involvement in US electons.
Bet must piss off George Soros who spent $100 million.

CloudHound
29th Apr 2018, 11:17
Just noticed a suggestion to download Green Day's catchy tune American Idiot in the week before his visit, as the chart is published on a Friday.

What a childish thing to do. Now, where's my iTunes login?

jindabyne
29th Apr 2018, 13:04
We are hosting the elected (yes) President of the country which is our closest and longest standing ally in recent history. In my mind, that behoves us to welcome the incumbent and respect the individual's formal position. In politics we cannot choose our friends as we do in normal social life. Often there has to be a recognition that it is necessary to set aside (not ignore) an individuals' failings in order to appreciate the wider picture. If we do not, and elect to follow the likes of Cable, Khan and all others who are baying for his blood, then we denigrate our own well established and respected democratic way of life. I do not warm to Mr Trump and dislike many of his public traits: but I will courteously welcome him as the elected representative of my friends in the US. After his short visit, I will hopefully be glad that he came, was accorded civility (and yes, I know that many will say he himself doesn't), and that I am able to wave a polite goodbye; with US and UK relationships intact. https://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=10131958) https://www.pprune.org/images/misc/progress.gif

Gertrude the Wombat
29th Apr 2018, 14:11
On the other hand if our government is playing host to a racist fascist lying thug then I might just feel inclined to jump on a train down to London.

radeng
29th Apr 2018, 14:16
I agree with jindabyne. Although apparently good manners are not very popular these days, it still behoves one to show them, as doubtless William of Wykeham would have done.

I am not sure that DJT is a brilliant President: the number of resignations and firings from his 'top team' suggest a degree of instability in his administration, although part of that could be down his inexperience of Washington politics. But that's no reason to be impolite - one should show one's superiority by rising above that...

What I do object to about these visits by heads of state and political junketings such as the G7 and NATO summits, is the inconvenience and cost to Joe Public caused by the disruption in the name of 'security'. When we get to the stage of closing LHR and the M4 for POTUS to fly in or for the G7 the other year, disrupting children's education by road closures, it is going too far. Let POTUS fly into Lakenheath or Mildenhall and have meetings there, where security is easier and should be cheaper. If he has to meet the Queen, helicopter to Buckingham Palace - there's plenty of room to land one on the lawns at the back.

Gertrude the Wombat
29th Apr 2018, 14:45
When we get to the stage of closing LHR and the M4 for POTUS to fly in ...
... it's a bit of a clue that the POTUS in question is not a very nice person? Walking around in public with just a couple of Special Branch in grey suits[#] is good enough for our royal family , it should be good enough for any head of state who isn't an arsehole and doesn't go round stirring up hatred.

[#] OK, and a couple more in black on the rooftops sometimes, but you don't have to look up at them, and they do try to keep the rifles out of sight.

And what about UK politicians? - normally a cabinet minister will have a minder with them if they're out and about during the week, but that's basically a diary secretary whose job it is to make sure they get to the next place on time, by physically dragging them to the car or train if necessary. At weekends on private visits they're likely to have no security or minders at all. UK politicians below cabinet rank mostly just travel around on their own like normal people.

radeng
29th Apr 2018, 15:09
I was told by the staff at Kemble that the Princess Royal often doesn't even have reserved seats for her and her minder, but she just turns up, the minder buys the tickets and they hop on the train.

Although I would expect that there are a lot more people who would want to knock off any POTUS than would want to assassinate the Queen.

ExXB
29th Apr 2018, 18:02
The American people voted President Trump into power. Actually it was about 27% of the US electorate that voted for Mr. Trump. Slightly fewer that voted for the Democratic candidate. 45% of the electorate abstained.

Now that is something to think about.

arketip
29th Apr 2018, 18:32
Actually it was about 27% of the US electorate that voted for Mr. Trump. Slightly fewer that voted for the Democratic candidate. 45% of the electorate abstained.

Now that is something to think about.


You used the same argument about Brexit and is flawed.

The one that did not vote chose to delegate their right to the others, they voted by proxy.

Highway1
29th Apr 2018, 18:33
Actually it was about 27% of the US electorate that voted for Mr. Trump. Slightly fewer that voted for the Democratic candidate. 45% of the electorate abstained.

Now that is something to think about.


Does that matter? - no member of the Public voted for the current Swiss President yet I assume you would expect them to be welcomed and respected on a visit to the UK?

ExXB
29th Apr 2018, 18:45
No, it is the same argument. Posters here and on Brexit discussions, repeatedly say “This is what ‘the people’ voted for”. Statistics clearly show that only a percentile, (27% for Trump, 37.44% for Brexit) of ‘the people’ actually voted for either.

I’d agree wholeheartedly if posters were to say “This is what ‘the majority of voters’ voted for”. But to suggest it is what ‘the people’ voted for is disingenuous. Even worse it is a falsehood.

ATNotts
29th Apr 2018, 18:59
No, it is the same argument. Posters here and on Brexit discussions, repeatedly say “This is what ‘the people’ voted for”. Statistics clearly show that only a percentile, (27% for Trump, 37.44% for Brexit) of ‘the people’ actually voted for either.

I’d agree wholeheartedly if posters were to say “This is what ‘the majority of voters’ voted for”. But to suggest it is what ‘the people’ voted for is disingenuous. Even worse it is a falsehood.

You could reasonably say that those can't be bothered, as such deserve what they get what they are given and have no right to whinge about that the winner(s) do, but you would have hoped that something as important as voting for the next US President would attract for than 55% participation. To be frank, it's a pretty poor advertisement for democracy. Just a thought, does the (in my opinion flawed) electoral college system encourage electoral apathy in those states where the Republicans or Democrats could put up Ch-Chi the chimpanzee as their candidate and they'd win, because one or the other party always wins in those states. There really must be some logical reason as to why turnout is so pathetic. (Thinking about it Trump is about as close to said chimp as anyone who's held that office in recent years!! - second thoughts, that's probably an insult to chimpanzees)

Personally I would make voting (in all national elections - anywhere) compulsory, as it is in Belgium, and in some Australian states, I believe. However if that were done then a "none of the above" option must be offered, though I'd wager that if compelled to turn out, not many people would use that option.

ExXB
29th Apr 2018, 19:16
ATNotts. I agree that those that couldn’t be bothered got what they deserved. And perhaps the electoral college system discourages people from ‘wasting their time’. The two-party system in the US is also partially to blame meaning that many voters only have a choice between bad and worse. This is particularly obvious when campaigning means one argues why you shouldn’t vote for the other guy, rather than arguing why one should vote for me.

The recent special elections in the US has shown progress is possible. ‘The people’ are voting for who they want, rather than voting against who they don’t. We shall see ...

Oh, I also agree that voting should be compulsory. Perhaps then we can say “that is what ‘the people’ decided”.

Gertrude the Wombat
29th Apr 2018, 20:54
Actually it was about 27% of the US electorate that voted for Mr. Trump. Slightly fewer that voted for the Democratic candidate. 45% of the electorate abstained.
Without pretending to have tried very hard to follow US politics, I can't say I blame the 45% - I'm not sure I would have voted for either candidate either. Not a very inspiring choice.

obgraham
29th Apr 2018, 20:55
Voting compulsory? Why? So that somebody can keep track of who does and who doesn't? Perhaps we could get results like Putin, or that guy in Egypt with 99% of the vote.

The right not to vote should be as cherished as the right to free speech. (Of course, that latter right is being abridged more and more also.)

meadowrun
29th Apr 2018, 21:11
Kinda like the idea of "compulsory".
Australia has it.
Encourages people to move their feet and exercise it.
You can always spoil your vote or write someone in if your anger seethes.

Look at it this way: It's another good tool in tracking down illegals and criminals. Great stuff.

maxred
29th Apr 2018, 22:53
There are some of us in the UK that actually think Trump is a fine president and a decent bloke. Any country that can elect a sleeze ball like Bliar has frankly a bit of a cheek shouting about other apparently crazy election decisions....

Highway1
29th Apr 2018, 23:23
Just a thought, does the (in my opinion flawed) electoral college system encourage electoral apathy in those states where the Republicans or Democrats could put up Ch-Chi the chimpanzee as their candidate and they'd win, because one or the other party always wins in those states. There really must be some logical reason as to why turnout is so pathetic. (Thinking about it Trump is about as close to said chimp as anyone who's held that office in recent years!! - second thoughts, that's probably an insult to chimpanzees)


Not sure that is particularly correct as one of the reason that Clinton lost was that she didn't bother to campaign in States where she thought she had the vote sewn up. As far as turnout goes it was higher than the last election that Obama won and higher than both the elections that Clinton won.

Seems there is significant minority who dont care who wins.

JimNtexas
29th Apr 2018, 23:38
It's nice to know that while the UK has pretty much given up on free speech, that there is still a little room for vicious hate speech, as long as said hate speech is directed against someone who isn't going to behead anyone in response.

ChrisVJ
30th Apr 2018, 04:00
ATN
I though Chi Chi was a panda.

Regardless of what the turnout is in any election we know the rules and the process. It is utterly pointless to claim that someone should not be elected because their majority was less than 51% of the available voters or even a lower overall number in a process using an electoral college. If you want to play cricket you play by the rules in force on the field and you can't complain you lost because you did not like them..

currawong
30th Apr 2018, 04:41
Democracy only works if all participate.

It is woeful to see voter turnout affected by the weather or what is on TV.

Highway1
30th Apr 2018, 04:58
Democracy only works if all participate.

It is woeful to see voter turnout affected by the weather or what is on TV.

When the choice is between Trump and Clinton its not that surprising that people prefer to watch the TV

obgraham
30th Apr 2018, 05:07
Democracy only works if all participate. Define "all".

Eddie Dean
30th Apr 2018, 05:26
Democracy only works if all participate.

It is woeful to see voter turnout affected by the weather or what is on TV.My understanding of democracy is nearly the opposite to yours, the freedom not to vote is part of democracy. I also like the idea of only rate payers get to vote in local (council) elections.

ExXB
30th Apr 2018, 07:10
Do tenants pay rates via their rent paid to the landowner?

Pontius Navigator
30th Apr 2018, 08:11
Define "all".
Everyone that is entitled to vote. Vote three ways - yes, no and not but content with majority.

Media often lumps non voters with opposition when of course they may be content either way.

​​​​

Pontius Navigator
30th Apr 2018, 08:13
Do tenants pay rates via their rent paid to the landowner?
Not usually.

Gertrude the Wombat
30th Apr 2018, 08:26
Do tenants pay rates via their rent paid to the landowner?
In the UK that's a complicated answer. In some cases the council tax is paid by the landlord, and either included in the rent or collected separately by the landlord from the tenant. In other cases the tenant pays the council directly. Somewhat to my surprise it turns out that there are laws about this - the landlord doesn't always have the free choice to handle the council tax payment and administration to save their tenants the hassle.

ATNotts
30th Apr 2018, 08:27
ATN
I though Chi Chi was a panda.

Regardless of what the turnout is in any election we know the rules and the process. It is utterly pointless to claim that someone should not be elected because their majority was less than 51% of the available voters or even a lower overall number in a process using an electoral college. If you want to play cricket you play by the rules in force on the field and you can't complain you lost because you did not like them..

Chi Chi was a chimp in a kids TV programme called Zoo Time on UK TV back in the 1960s!!

I would have thought, looking from afar, that given that the USA must have matured into a cohesive federal unit by now, one person one vote may now be more appropriate a method to elect the president. In cases such as the EU, if and when a direct election for president were ever held, an electoral college would I think be vital as it is still evolving and neither unified or cohesive at this stage in it's evolution.

currawong
30th Apr 2018, 10:21
Define "all".

"all" should mean all that are eligible to vote.

I think that one should be able to "abstain" as a vote. As an alternative to protest votes that can result in unlikely/undesirable parties holding more sway than they otherwise would.

Hard to say which came first. Voter apathy or political apathy.

Seems to be a worldwide problem, despite variations in systems.

ethicalconundrum
30th Apr 2018, 16:42
Do tenants pay rates via their rent paid to the landowner?


In every state in the colonies, tenants pay rent directly to landlords(or property manager/management) privately. There is no counsel house, counsel collection, counsel anything. In some rare cases, there is an extra tax/fee/charge payment in some counties which is passed on to the tenant, but this is unusual. The transaction is purely commercial in nature, and the landlord is responsible for all fees, taxed, duties, imposts, property management costs, repairs, etc.

Having said that, there are 'the projects' which in some cases are wholly or partially owned by the county/state/fed. In this case, these are run-down tenement properties where the money for rent is either subsidized by the feds/state, or is fully paid by the fed/state through a complex system of circular money laundering within the various govts. The 'counsel house' in this case is the housing authority which is a quasi-govt entity designed to manage the projects. These places are the lowest form of shelter known to humans, and is often the source of corruption, graft, drug dealing, and prostitution. Very poorly thought of in almost all cases.

The utilities are negotiable and each situation is different. I have three properties where I have a fixed water bill paid by the tenant, and a stipend for home use, and I pay a segment to maintain the lawn sprinkers to see that the lawn is maintained. Other cases the tenant pays all utilities. In most cases of a detached house, the tenant pays all utilities. In most cases of apartments/'flats' the water is provided, and tenant pays for electric/gas/fuel oil. Some situations are slightly different.

As for US elections, the voter participation is typically between 56-64%. In 2016, Trump v Clinton had a greater voter participation(turnout) than 2012, when Obama was re-elected. Do the same rules for Trump's authority to serve match Obama's? Y'all decide. Not a fan of compulsory anything, most particularly voting. Not casting a vote is somewhat similar to a vote of no confidence, which the British should be well acquainted with. I will opine that in 2012 if Romney had found his SPINE!(rather than waiting until 2016) he would have won, but people like me who voted for him held our nose, and many rejected his milquetoast approach to the Biggest Job Interview Ever by sitting on their hands that go-around. Forcing anyone to vote is not for a republic. However, I would be fully supportive of restricting voting for members of the HR to only those who pay property tax(just one mans idea).

ethicalconundrum
30th Apr 2018, 16:58
It doesn't bother me at all that some/many Brits protest a visit to their country by the US president. Seems rather churlish not to extend the olive branch to head of state of one of the most influential and powerful nations on earth, but I think I get the bit of envy involved. No matter that the UK had the world on a platter 100 or 80-ish years ago and tossed it all away, hard feelings are maybe unavoidable.

However, I would like to know what basis this protestation of the US prez visit revolves around? Is it purely political? I have no problem with political posturing, but I think something else is at work.

Planemike
30th Apr 2018, 17:35
No matter that the UK had the world on a platter 100 or 80-ish years ago and tossed it all away, hard feelings are maybe unavoidable.

What on earth do you mean by this statement??!!! Very intrigued.....

ethicalconundrum
30th Apr 2018, 17:47
"Sun never sets on the British Empire". et-al

England, Scotland, Irie, Falklands, Canada, Amer Colonies, Singapore, India, etc.

Pax Britannica? No?

rusty sparrow
30th Apr 2018, 19:08
What gets me about this, is how people tend to pile in and hate without any real reason. It's easy to do on social media and reminds me of George Orwell's Two Minute Hate in 1984. Twitter storms focus hate on someone in moments. They don't step back and ask objectively 'why have I got a problem with so and so' but just follow the crowd like mindless sheep.

Pontius Navigator
30th Apr 2018, 19:28
RS, it's fun, there may even be the chance of knocking a Copper's hat off with a brick, better, maybe a shop window and bagging that 65 inch TV I covet. :)

Fareastdriver
30th Apr 2018, 20:16
better, maybe a shop window and bagging that 65 inch TV I covet

You will need a couple of mates to help you.

malcolm380
30th Apr 2018, 20:22
I seem to recall that many in the UK have an opinion on the then Mr Trump, because of his behaviour concerning his golf courses in Scotland. Can anyone shed any light on that? I'm pretty sure he's not thought highly of in the UK because of this, and not just because he is now POTUS.

Pontius Navigator
30th Apr 2018, 21:05
Malcolm, didn't he upset the Royal and Ancient?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/5983338/Selina-Scott-in-war-of-words-with-Donald-Trump.html

And I meant the golf and not the newscaster.

racedo
30th Apr 2018, 22:13
I seem to recall that many in the UK have an opinion on the then Mr Trump, because of his behaviour concerning his golf courses in Scotland. Can anyone shed any light on that? I'm pretty sure he's not thought highly of in the UK because of this, and not just because he is now POTUS.

Nobody cares about a gold course in Scotland...................

Jack D
1st May 2018, 00:09
Nobody cares about a gold course in Scotland...................

Gold in Scotland ! . . don’t tell the SNP they’ll inflate the value !

reynoldsno1
1st May 2018, 01:24
The irony is that all these protests may well enable Don to quite truthfully state that he had the largest turnout in the history of large turnouts, like, forever, of any president of anywhere who has visited Albion's shores.

Ogre
1st May 2018, 10:27
What gets me about this, is how people tend to pile in and hate without any real reason. It's easy to do on social media and reminds me of George Orwell's Two Minute Hate in 1984. Twitter storms focus hate on someone in moments. They don't step back and ask objectively 'why have I got a problem with so and so' but just follow the crowd like mindless sheep.

That's the bit I was trying to remember, the two minute hate. And if you fail to join in with enough enthusiasm you get reported to big brother.

These days it's led by the Daily Wail or CNN.

ExXB
1st May 2018, 10:45
What would British residents be justified in protesting against Mr. Trump and US policies ...

1. Climate Change,
2. Tariffs and Trade War
3. Iran "Nuclear" treaty

Domestic issues are, of course, an issue for US residents. You voted for him (well at least 27% of the electorate did).

ethicalconundrum
1st May 2018, 17:24
What would British residents be justified in protesting against Mr. Trump and US policies ...

1. Climate Change,
2. Tariffs and Trade War
3. Iran "Nuclear" treaty

Domestic issues are, of course, an issue for US residents. You voted for him (well at least 27% of the electorate did).

Thank you. So far, those things you've mentioned are worthy of debate. The US was on a far left track on all these issues, and we were being slowly bled-out by the billions(or maybe the trillions?). The US has it's plan, and maybe it's less aligned, or even non-aligned with the British on these issues, so there is certain justification for protest. I'm certain there is a segment of the Brit population that supports these 3 topics as listed.

However, none of those important topics were present in the thread that I could find, and the link in the OPs only talked about the basic 'hate-Trump' miasma of bigotry, xenophobia, anti-muslim, misogynist, etc. Pretty much all the CNN-intl diatribe without any proof or details. Just hate-Trump fest.

ExXB
1st May 2018, 17:36
Well I know HMG’s supports the Paris agreement. Mr. Trump does not. They oppose the steel and aluminium (they can also spell it) tariffs. Mr. Trump does (but can’t spell it). It also favours the continuation of the Iran agreement, Mr. Trump does not.

But this isn’t about the British government it is about the British people.

I think it is pointless to debate the pros and cons of these three issues, particularly as that is off-topic. You asked what the British people could possibly want to protest during Mr. Trumps visit. I’ve given you three. There could be more.

Krystal n chips
1st May 2018, 18:15
Thank you. So far, those things you've mentioned are worthy of debate. The US was on a far left track on all these issues, and we were being slowly bled-out by the billions(or maybe the trillions?). The US has it's plan, and maybe it's less aligned, or even non-aligned with the British on these issues, so there is certain justification for protest. I'm certain there is a segment of the Brit population that supports these 3 topics as listed.

However, none of those important topics were present in the thread that I could find, and the link in the OPs only talked about the basic 'hate-Trump' miasma of bigotry, xenophobia, anti-muslim, misogynist, etc. Pretty much all the CNN-intl diatribe without any proof or details. Just hate-Trump fest.

Less your sensibilities be offended by a link to the Guardian, which most people on here are, and hence an explanation as to why the intensity of feeling exists towards his visit ......surely you cannot sanction or support anybody who has so openly displayed all those traits you have chosen to use as exemplifiers, both prior and post his election, as being a fit and proper leader of one of the three most influential nations on this planet.

There's also the little matter of the UK's domestic politics and future involved here, notably the desperation of a failing PM to secure any form of trade deal(s) that she can sell to the public as being "successful" even if they won't be along with the undercurrent of far right and populist agenda's intent on destroying any forms of liberal and social progress achieved over the years.

On a lighter note, if, as is being alluded to he avoids London for the reasons already suggested and heads for Chequers, Wendover station will never be the same again and we can only pray the "Shoulder of Mutton " would remain intact. One has fond memories of said hostelry as a starting point before proceeding to the "Two Brewers"...that's why.

Here's a link closer to home for you....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-26/trump-coming-to-u-k-in-july-but-will-protesters-get-a-look-in

ethicalconundrum
1st May 2018, 19:07
Less your sensibilities be offended by a link to the Guardian, which most people on here are, and hence an explanation as to why the intensity of feeling exists towards his visit ......surely you cannot sanction or support anybody who has so openly displayed all those traits you have chosen to use as exemplifiers, both prior and post his election, as being a fit and proper leader of one of the three most influential nations on this planet.

There's also the little matter of the UK's domestic politics and future involved here, notably the desperation of a failing PM to secure any form of trade deal(s) that she can sell to the public as being "successful" even if they won't be along with the undercurrent of far right and populist agenda's intent on destroying any forms of liberal and social progress achieved over the years.

On a lighter note, if, as is being alluded to he avoids London for the reasons already suggested and heads for Chequers, Wendover station will never be the same again and we can only pray the "Shoulder of Mutton " would remain intact. One has fond memories of said hostelry as a starting point before proceeding to the "Two Brewers"...that's why.

Here's a link closer to home for you....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-26/trump-coming-to-u-k-in-july-but-will-protesters-get-a-look-in

Surely I can support Trump for the policies with which I agree with him. Your link had; 'womens rights, environmental rights, anti-racism'. It's almost laughably hilarious having Britain offer up admonishment of women's rights. Hasn't your congress just gone through a bit of a toss over some scantily clad ladies attending important - ahem, 'meetings'? Aren't there a few other wink-wink, nod-nod contretemps going on over there recently? Maybe you have equated the US women's issues in Hollywood/NYC with Trump? Sorry, but that's the wrong party, all those Weinstein/harasser types are all far left LIBERALS. I guess there's a policy difference in the US stance on environment. I think I can explain that with the facts that the US has so far funded billions of US dollars in an intl ponzi scheme to further enrich third-world tinpot dictators with no change in the actual environment. If there were actual concerns on environment at those international conferences I suspect that Trump would be supportive. However, the current trend is to shame the US into playing along, and then bleeding the US taxpayers for as much 'offset' or 'carbon credit dollars' as possible. That has nothing to do with enviro concerns and everything to do with personal enrichment. As for the racism angle Trump has done far more for US minorities that the previous bloke who only stoked the fires of racial bias each time he spoke. Trump has reduced the unemployment of blacks and hispanics in the US to record levels. What more should he do? I'm sure that's the debate, that Trump should pander to every ACLU/NAACP demand, no matter how ludicrous or costly.

I've asked before, but really - do yourself a favor. Turn off CNN and actually look at policy decisions and not this continuing band of media carve ups. Whether Trump holds his wife's hand is far more important than his work on the Korean matter. That's what I've been told each time I visit CNN.

MG23
1st May 2018, 19:20
womens rights

It's amusing to see the left yelling 'womens' rights!' when Trump and the Republicans are going after sex traffickers. Maybe Obama was just too busy with 'Climate Change' to do anything about women being sold into slavery?

But, then, SJWs always lie and project.

One Outsider
1st May 2018, 21:10
But, then, SJWs always lie and project.Just hilarious, but the irony undoubtedly just flew straight over unnoticed.

Gertrude the Wombat
1st May 2018, 23:02
... are all far left LIBERALS
I still can't get my head round this American terminology.

In English "left" and "liberal" are orthogonal. You can be "left" and "liberal", but you can also be "right" and "liberal", and you can sure as hell be "left" and "authoritarian" and there are far more of those in the UK, and I suspect the world, than there are "left liberals".

Secondly, with the English meaning of "left" there is pretty well nobody "left" in the USA, let alone anybody "far left".

ethicalconundrum
2nd May 2018, 01:35
I still can't get my head round this American terminology.

In English "left" and "liberal" are orthogonal. You can be "left" and "liberal", but you can also be "right" and "liberal", and you can sure as hell be "left" and "authoritarian" and there are far more of those in the UK, and I suspect the world, than there are "left liberals".

Secondly, with the English meaning of "left" there is pretty well nobody "left" in the USA, let alone anybody "far left".

Yes, I understand the difference. Which is why I reinforced in the context that they are both 'far left' and liberal(there are plenty of 'far left' people in the US). We have a very different identity of political alignment, and since this is about Trump, and we are discussing protests against him, it's correct to list both far left, and liberal. There is no orthogonality to it, except for very rare cases of one-off politicians in the colonies. The only example I can think of in the British form would be senator McCain who is from the 'right' but is truly a liberal. He is the fly in the conservative ointment, or the turd in the right leaning punchbowl if you please. In the future, I'll try to be more careful on relating the left, right and liberal in English/British context.

Krystal n chips
2nd May 2018, 06:58
Surely I can support Trump for the policies with which I agree with him. Your link had; 'womens rights, environmental rights, anti-racism'. It's almost laughably hilarious having Britain offer up admonishment of women's rights. Hasn't your congress just gone through a bit of a toss over some scantily clad ladies attending important - ahem, 'meetings'? Aren't there a few other wink-wink, nod-nod contretemps going on over there recently? Maybe you have equated the US women's issues in Hollywood/NYC with Trump? Sorry, but that's the wrong party, all those Weinstein/harasser types are all far left LIBERALS. I guess there's a policy difference in the US stance on environment. I think I can explain that with the facts that the US has so far funded billions of US dollars in an intl ponzi scheme to further enrich third-world tinpot dictators with no change in the actual environment. If there were actual concerns on environment at those international conferences I suspect that Trump would be supportive. However, the current trend is to shame the US into playing along, and then bleeding the US taxpayers for as much 'offset' or 'carbon credit dollars' as possible. That has nothing to do with enviro concerns and everything to do with personal enrichment. As for the racism angle Trump has done far more for US minorities that the previous bloke who only stoked the fires of racial bias each time he spoke. Trump has reduced the unemployment of blacks and hispanics in the US to record levels. What more should he do? I'm sure that's the debate, that Trump should pander to every ACLU/NAACP demand, no matter how ludicrous or costly.

I've asked before, but really - do yourself a favor. Turn off CNN and actually look at policy decisions and not this continuing band of media carve ups. Whether Trump holds his wife's hand is far more important than his work on the Korean matter. That's what I've been told each time I visit CNN.

It's never a good idea, if you don't mind me mentioning it, to start a response with a glaring error.

True, there was a recent furore over a certain "dining event " but thereafter you appear to be unaware of the UK's political structure.

Now, I don't actually watch CNN, but, like a few million other Brits, I think it's fair to say other media sources have been providing information on his policies and thus we can, and do, formulate our own perspectives and assessments.

It doesn't actually enhance his reputation when he re-tweets, and alluded to supporting, three videos from those paragons of social inclusivity and integration "Britain First ".....feel free to look up the organisation, well not actually an organisation, more a loose collective of openly racist thugs whose collective IQ is probably marginally less than their membership , and form your own opinion thereafter.

You mentioned Women's Rights, almost in passing, but no matter because you seem to have missed the global protests on this issue. Herein may lie a clue as to why those of us who don't subscribe to the concept of misogyny and suppression of Women to appease the delicate male ego ( I am male in case you are confused ) are far from impressed with his stance here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38700123

But as I may have mentioned before, this visit is inextricably linked to our own domestic politics and the uncertainty of the ever evolving debacle known as Brexit .

Leaving aside the ubiquitous "rent a mob " brigade, you may wish to reflect on the fact those of us demonstrating on the day will come from a very broad spectrum of ages, political affiliations, occupations and social demographics. All, however, will be vehemently opposed to the context of his visit and his policies, both internal and global.

Again, this is about him.......not America per se

There again, I reiterate the chances of him actually being in London are diminishing due to the projected turnout because frankly, even if the Met involved every available officer, and drafted in as many as could be spared from every force in the UK, managing the scale of the proposed demonstrations could, and probably will, be limited at best.

Trade threat is reason to join Trump protests, say campaigners | Global Justice Now (http://www.globaljustice.org.uk/news/2018/apr/27/trade-threat-reason-join-trump-protests-say-campaigners)

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd May 2018, 09:04
There again, I reiterate the chances of him actually being in London are diminishing due to the projected turnout because frankly, even if the Met involved every available officer, and drafted in as many as could be spared from every force in the UK, managing the scale of the proposed demonstrations could, and probably will, be limited at best.
I think what determines the level of policing is the threat from the demonstrators - when they're all on the same side the challenge is just managing the number of people (avoiding people being crushed to death at tube stations, that sort of thing) rather than containing crowd violence. As you say, Trump himself will be kept miles away from the demo so it'll just be a stroll in (we might hope) the sunshine.

At the first EU demo, the one with around 100,000 marchers, there were modest numbers of police around, but their primary duties were dealing with lost children, dealing with people taken ill, and giving directions. They all looked very happy - spending the day standing around chatting to friendly people may, for some of them, have been a welcome change from a normal day's work in London.

ExXB
2nd May 2018, 11:58
Why do some consider ‘left’ and ‘Liberal’ to be insults? I’m proud to be a (small L) liberal with leftish views. This doesn’t mean I’m a communist (another insult, apparently) either.

Pontius Navigator
2nd May 2018, 12:16
Why do some consider ‘left’ and ‘Liberal’ to be insults? I’m proud to be a (small L) liberal with leftish views. This doesn’t mean I’m a communist (another insult, apparently) either.
As far as insults go, I thought liberal, and I think not Liberal, related to sock and sandals with a beard, and a suggestion of unwashed. Of Liberal I think 'like Nick Clegg' surpasses that though Vince and Paddy are runners up.

The other, which encapsulates the lot, is 'trendy liberal lefty' . One BiL fits that to a T, and hates it :)

Thomas coupling
2nd May 2018, 16:33
So there's a plan afoot to get 1,000,000 protesters onto the streets to tell Trump where to stick it.

Who is going to tell the President of the USA that he can't go round manhandling Queenie the way he manhandles hiswife/Theresa May/Macron/Prime minister of S Korea.
One unintended nudge or over zealous hand shake could reduce her to a quivering heap.....and boy would that go down well.

Anyway, will the Queen shake hands with an alleged mysoginist/sexual predator/bankrupt/narcissist?

Highway1
2nd May 2018, 17:44
Anyway, will the Queen shake hands with an alleged mysoginist/sexual predator/bankrupt/narcissist?

She has shaken hands with a lot worse..

racedo
2nd May 2018, 19:38
Anyway, will the Queen shake hands with an alleged mysoginist/sexual predator/bankrupt/narcissist?

Afraid anybody throws that one around then Prince Andrew's name will get thrown about................... not convicted of anything but seems that doesn't apply here does it.

Blues&twos
2nd May 2018, 19:46
Racedo - which of those terms doesn't apply to Trump?

ethicalconundrum
2nd May 2018, 19:49
It's never a good idea, if you don't mind me mentioning it, to start a response with a glaring error.


Yes, I understand, house of commons, house of lords, and for you and you only, I apologize unreservedly for referring to them as a 'congress' and not parliament. Such a glaring error, but - you did catch me. True enough.

As for his tweets, I have to apologize again as I don't twit, er - tweet, or follow any of that. If Trump is for 'America First' as a policy, well, you can rant all the polemics you want. I assure you, the US is far, far more diverse in culture, race, religion, and national origin that Britain. Another of those 'pot' v 'kettle' moments. Frankly, we've had quite enough multiculturalism sowing terror and destroying buildings over here - thank you very much. MAGA is the watchword. Sorry that offends(not really this time).

Pontius Navigator
2nd May 2018, 20:27
the US is far, far more diverse in culture, race, religion, and national origin that Britain.

I do love how statements like this are thrown out with not a shred of evidence. We gave you several thousand years of culture, race etc as a start and collected hundreds more since. Of many that settled in the US in the last two centuries, most passed through Britain en route with a fair number remaining in UK as they couldn't afford the fare.

IFMU
2nd May 2018, 21:01
diverse in culture, race, religion, and national origin

I can't compare the US to the UK. That description is very accurate when applied to the group of co-workers I sit with. I don't even have to leave my row.

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd May 2018, 21:31
Anyway, will the Queen shake hands with an alleged mysoginist/sexual predator/bankrupt/narcissist?
What are the bookies' odds on her having a cold that day?

Gertrude the Wombat
2nd May 2018, 21:34
That description is very accurate when applied to the group of co-workers I sit with. I don't even have to leave my row.
The people I work with are from all over Europe. I imagine the company will close down and I'll be out of a job when they're brexity-windrushed out of the country.

racedo
2nd May 2018, 21:55
Racedo - which of those terms doesn't apply to Trump?

The word used before them was "alledged" and don't have to dig very hard to find Prince Andrew coming in for certain criticism for friends he keeps and amazing deal he got for his house at just the right time.

None have to be right but doesn't seem to be the issue anymore................ and yeah I have gone down that route to show how easy it is to rake muck. Innocent until proven guilty only applies in Criminal court not in Court of Public Abuse....er Opinion.

Blues&twos
3rd May 2018, 07:09
I don't understand what someone else being unpleasant has to do with Trump being unpleasant.

bcgallacher
3rd May 2018, 07:41
Gold in Scotland ! . . don’t tell the SNP they’ll inflate the value !
Believe it or not there is a working gold mine in Scotland - produced its first gold which sold at a premium last year.

Krystal n chips
3rd May 2018, 08:01
Yes, I understand, house of commons, house of lords, and for you and you only, I apologize unreservedly for referring to them as a 'congress' and not parliament. Such a glaring error, but - you did catch me. True enough.

As for his tweets, I have to apologize again as I don't twit, er - tweet, or follow any of that. If Trump is for 'America First' as a policy, well, you can rant all the polemics you want. I assure you, the US is far, far more diverse in culture, race, religion, and national origin that Britain. Another of those 'pot' v 'kettle' moments. Frankly, we've had quite enough multiculturalism sowing terror and destroying buildings over here - thank you very much. MAGA is the watchword. Sorry that offends(not really this time).

No need to apologise but it's nice to see you've done some research here with regard to the Palace of Westminster. Try to think of the result as being a testimony to my liberal altruism in bringing the error to your attention.

You will be overjoyed, I'm sure, to learn we have something in common. I'm not on Twitter either, but, in the case of the videos there was no need to be......mainstream global media kindly presented this information...... to a global audience.

I'm not in the least offended by the "Make America Great Again " slogan. As any advertising agency will tell you, it's the strapline to promote the product that's crucial to getting the readers attention......the UK had a similar one quite recently in fact "Strong and Stable"......sadly, this proved to be somewhat both overly optimistic and erroneous in equal measure hence the desperation on the part of the product to salvage what little, and it's minimal at best, remains of the products credibility.

On the basis of there being, approx. 325.7m American and 66.5m UK citizens, it's not unreasonable to assume there will be a greater diversity of the criteria you outline.

However, when policies are intended to marginalise groups within these headings, and a few more besides, plus to an extent the UK is happily following suit, then again, it's incumbent on those who do not agree to initiate protests in support of those involved.

This from "Time" for example....

Executive Orders: How Donald Trump's Target People of Color | Time (http://time.com/4679727/donald-trump-executive-orders-police/)

vapilot2004
4th May 2018, 07:54
Rump™ should not be allowed within 10 kilometers of HM or any other members of the royal household and as I stated long ago in a thread far away (the old PPrunE), I am still bettin' Betty has some kind of scheduling conflict during the liar-in-chief's visit.

Perhaps they will send the heir apparent in HM's place. Meanwhile, will Camilla and the various princesses be fitted with the proper crotch guards?

What are the bookies' odds on her having a cold that day?

Right now, even.

sitigeltfel
4th May 2018, 07:59
Believe it or not there is a working gold mine in Scotland - produced its first gold which sold at a premium last year.

My wedding ring is made from gold from the River Tay. My uncle panned it back in the 1940s.

ExXB
6th May 2018, 10:30
Could I just add:"I recently read a story that in London, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, a once very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds," he said on Friday.
"They don't have guns. They have knives and instead there's blood all over the floors of this hospital.
"They say it's as bad as a military war zone hospital. Knives, knives, knives, knives." He mimed a stabbing motion.

‘nuff said’. Please stay home

Monkeytennis12345
6th May 2018, 23:39
So 'happy' that the Bermondsey Gin tour that my good lady has bought me for my birthday is on the same weekend that HRH Trump is dropping in. I plan to indulge in a few extra gins so I can miss the kerfuffle.